Question! Do you like assets in with your map packs?

Hi everyone, This question is really geared towards customers , but artists, feel free to chime in as well: Do you like assets in your map packs? Question Background I'm a relatively new marketplace creator, and am still figuring out how to optimize my sets. I started off making huge sets, with high detail. I was providing two copies of each map, with details and without. I exported all of the assets for reuse, and sunk a ton of time in. I set the price at $9.99, as honestly this was a fraction of my effort put in (can see that set  here ). But then, due to the way roll20 is set up, the map pack disappears in two weeks lol. Unless you spam twitter and hunt down customers, your work goes forgotten. The system seems to benefit small packs, since it constantly keeps you at the top of the pile. That led to me scale back to just 13 medium level detail maps, two variant maps and a puzzle in my latest set for $5.99 (seen  here ). My goal here is not to plug my own work, honestly the income from this is minimal, it's more of a hobby, but I do enjoy having a hobby with a chance of getting something out of it. So I am trying to figure out what customers want in their map packs. Here's a bunch of the things I question: Do you want just straight up maps? Do you want customizability? Do you want 20 maps with low detail, or would you prefer 5 super high detailed maps? Do you want crazy terrains and environments with little applicability? Or general maps, that can fit almost anywhere? Do you want the assets? These are so time consuming to export, but really do make the sets infinitely flexible once you add in blank versions of each map. I use my own assets all the time in my campaign I DM, and I love the flexibility, but I don't know, if I were buying a set, do I want the work of having to then go make the map too? Oh yes, and finally, do you hate non-color maps? lol I was told this when I started that black and white maps do not sell well, if you have an opinion on this, I'd love to hear it. I personally think the dynamic lighting looks awesome on black and white maps, but am curious about others thoughts. No worries, I don't get offended :) I'm digressing a bit here, because I've been wondering about this for sometime, and if anyone wants to drop their two cents, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time, Robert TL;DR: What do you want in the map packs you buy?

The 5.99 price point is where you want to start. Personally I like to see 3 or 4 completed maps with a couple of empty ones. Then I like to see a bunch of assets that go into the set so I can make and modify my own maps, if I wish to. As a consumer I always more for less, so you have to find your happy median for time vs cost.

I like having more loose props/tiles to work with and maybe only one or two complete pre-fab maps.

Really appreciate both of you replying. Thank you.

I like all the variation and options in the Marketplace, so these sets and sets containing assets are certainly useful sometimes. But personally, I really look for sets that have complete maps --- ready to drop-and-play right away. Consider them pre-fabricated maps. One map from within a set of maps like this, can be enough to entice a GM to set up an entire adventure that might take up one-or-more entire game sessions of adventuring. This kind of map could be an instant side-quest, or a one-shot. The GM would only need to place monster tokens and room descriptions. Saves the GM from spending time placing and rotating tiles or furniture assets, resizing, and matching up corridors/hallways at the edges of maps. Yes it would be less flexible for the GM to tailor to a specific idea ("I really need the alter to be on the West side of the room!"), but it would also be faster for the GM ("You see a room with an alter on the East side"). Yes it would take away some of the GM's creative options ("I'm going to make a room with 37 alters and 2 rugs and 7 doorways"), but on the flip-side there is a benefit of using your creativity as a mapper (Robert's creativity) and thus saving the GM from needing to think creatively and spacially in constructing a map from sections/assets/rooms. Robert, with your black-and-white-and-gray art style, I'd personally like to see some large-to-massive dungeons and environments which are each just one single graphic tile each, perhaps 30x30 or 40x40 units of Roll20 size. Maybe include several of these in a pack. Perhaps include just a few extra assets that the GM can choose to add more of (such as, include a pit-trap that can fit into any hallway). Or perhaps offer Furnished and Unfurnished versions, AKA pre-decorated and blank map versions, but maybe without providing every individual furnishing as an individual asset.  They won't come with Dynamic Lighting unless they are a Module product on Marketplace, but I would like the maps to have clear lines of positive space (hallways) and negative space (walls or gaps between dungeon halls), so that it's easy for a Pro GM to draw-in the Dynamic Lighting Layer. For some example-titles of such pre-completed maps, perhaps you could make maps such as Dragon's Lair, Dwarf Mines, Narrow Warrens, Eye-Tyrant Vertical Shafts, Death Dungeon, Trap Dungeon, Classic Dungeon, King's Castle, Priest Temple, Evil Temple, Mushroom Forest, Frost Giant Ice Caverns, Underwater City, Mountainside Adventure.

I agree with Stephen L.  I prefer tiles and objects with the occasional pre-done map. I'm not sure how much of a problem it is for things to fall off of the 'new items' list after a couple weeks.  Whenever I go looking for something I end up searching by keyword rather than 'new to old' and I use that awful 'load more' button* to go several pages deep before I decide on my purchase. The price point is important too.  I generally grab things at $4.99 without much thought.  $9.99 would need to be something I really wanted which is one of those weird perception tricks.  I would easily spend $4.99 each for two map tile sets with, say, 20 tiles each but would have a hard time spending $9.99 for one map tile set with 40 tiles. *When I 'load more' then hit 'back' I shouldn't have to start all over again and hit 'load more' again (usually several times) to get back where I was.

Khrain said: *When I 'load more' then hit 'back' I shouldn't have to start all over again and hit 'load more' again (usually several times) to get back where I was. I try to remember to right click on the link to open it in a new tab so I don't have to start over each time.

This community always blows me away with how helpful and nice everyone is. @Gold - Really appreciate the input, and idea list. What do you do with the massive dungeon map on a 35x35 grid though? I suppose it becomes theater of the mind with a high level visual aid to depict where the group is in the dungeon/area? @Khrain - Good to know people are searching via text, and I agree on the price point. I haven't developed a set of tiles yet, but will look into it. I just know exporting assets one by one is such a pain. I could offer a smaller batch of assets though to accompany. I have a tough time not going all out once I start down a path lol So, I'm gathering right now middle of the road seems best. 5 maps, 5 alternative maps with empty space for assets, and then a handful of assets to go along with, priced at $5.99 (would be fair). Ideally more of everything, but that would be the baseline in an ideal world. Thanks again all.

Robert said: @Gold - Really appreciate the input, and idea list. What do you do with the massive dungeon map on a 35x35 grid though? I suppose it becomes theater of the mind with a high level visual aid to depict where the group is in the dungeon/area? Hmmm. Maybe the word "massive" was an exaggeration, or 40x40 was low-balling the size. Perhaps "good-sized dungeon" is a better description.  I didn't mean theater of the mind. I meant an actual map that Players & Monsters can have tokens walking around through the hallways. And it could be something like 80x80, consisting of 4 large tiles.  Rather than a bunch of 10x10 rooms or 3x3 furniture assets that need to be assembled. Granted a true "massive" or mega-dungeon level could easily be more like 120x120 and up.

@Gold - Think I'm with you now. Sounds like you're after a ready-to-go dungeon with a handful of assets (and emptier map versions for customization). As a GM myself, this makes a lot of sense. Thanks again for the input.

When I purchase art packs, I'm generally looking for something that I can use with the maps I already have. I own a few of Gabriel Pickard's map packs, both the pre-generated maps and the "do it yourself" ones. That way I can alter the premade maps so my players aren't fighting in the same 4 forest clearings the entire campaign. The same goes for dungeons, I'd be more likely to buy a dungeon map if there were "extension" packs to go along with it.

Personally, I love art packs with more pieces and parts than premade maps or even corridor pieces. The more individual trees, bushes, rocks, statues, tables, doors, wall only pieces, etc., the far more likely I am to purchase it.  I rarely find traditional dungeon tiles with premade hallways and intersections useful and usually only in emergency dungeon creation sessions when my players just go way off course.  While I am not an artist, as a GM I like to think of myself as a storyteller, and the more tools I have that allows me to put exactly what's in my head in front of my players/audience the better. Mapping has long been the most difficult part of tabletops for me.  I have used other VTTs like MapTools from RPTools, stampers like Dundjinni and Dungeon Demon with projectors, physical 2D maptiles, and 3D papercraft terrain from companies like Fat Dragon and Dave Graffam.  This is one of my top two issues I have had with all of them.   Of all the types of mapping I have tried, 3D papercraft handled this the best with simple floor textures and separate wall pieces in various lengths and corner configurations, but the nature of 3D means that you cannot see the entire map in front of you (as a GM this is especially important, but players lose sight of their characters too) without getting up and walking around.  I have yet to find a comprehensive top down set that allows me to do this.  For a long time I simply bought the tiles, cropped them in MS Paint, printed them onto cardstock, and then glued the pieces onto magnet sheets, cut them our and used them like a stamper on a piece of sheetmetal on the game table.  This works, but takes a lot of time, resources, and causes a lot of time pausing during the game to set up, which is why I have recently came to Roll20 and am trying a VTT again. In short, less premade maps, less corridor tiles, more objects, textures, and assets.

Obs.: I Don't translate this post (portuguese brazil) Eu prefiro mapas "quebrados" onde eu possa ajustar, mas ao menos 01 destes você teria que por pronto para explicar "olha aqui como você pode montar seus mapas". O que também facilita as pessoas a comprarem o mapa (caso ele esteja quebrado) é fazer com que ele se ajuste rapidamente ao grid do roll20 ou qualquer outro programa. Então aqueles que não tem tempo simplesmente vão jogando os pedaços do mapa e montando do seu jeito. Além disso, é bom sempre criar uma nota e colocar junto ao pacote (podendo ser um link externo também) explicando como a pessoa pode utilizar o mapa. Se o pacote de mapas for fechado, você pode criar a nota comentando qual a função dele, por exemplo, utilizar o mapa como um campo de batalha, esconder um baú aqui ou ali, colocar uma porta fechada lá, ele é melhor para uma prisão que uma taverna e por aí vai. Assim você dá a ela o que precisa, mas também explica para ela qual a melhor utilização para o mapa. Eu costumo comprar os mapas e tokens que possuem altos detalhes, mas não porque eu quero imprimi-los. Simplesmente me faz bem ver um trabalho bem-acabado, mesmo que o autor possua estilos diferentes de finalização.

I like having both prefab and unfab maps. Prefab saves me a lot of time in getting things set up and saves on loading time for players, but my players will inevitably turn over a table or move a crate or take a torch or some other object action which I like to have unfab maps for so I can actually remove these objects. I guess I like having both.

I like both but lean to premade. Quick encounter maps on the fly are a pain if I have to randomly set one up. I much prefer premade ones for that, for wilderness/on the road/random encounters 99% of the time I use these. Usually flipping one vertically/horizontally/rotating it (or all 3) is good enough players dont realize they are on the same one I used 3 weeks ago.  Only time I actually like individual assets is if I'm trying to create a very specific dungeon/building/etc. But then again I GM by the rule "If it takes me longer to make a particular setting, than they spend playing on it. The ratio is backwards" (Just my rule of thumb). So important or core to the story/frequently visited places I will do with individual assets. But anything less than one gaming session or a few hours at is "find something premade that's close enough". If I had my 'perfect' option it would be a hybrid of both in one. Premade seamless tiles (There is a word for them but at 7am it escapes me) that I could flip/rotate to slap down a unique layout quickly. Like I LOVE the "Village to Plunder" set for example. As within a few minutes I can make a new random town layout, just put them together like puzzle pieces.

I love having customizing options.  I also generally won't spend more than 4.99 per thingy.  For instance, I buy a TON of artist A's work.  He usually does great maps and such, very little customizing, but they look great.  He also does a "build it yourself" (my name, not his) and I buy those because they can often be used together.  Maps A work with customizing set A...etc.  I like that A LOT.

I do love a well put together map set, but also like to have options to customize it in the same style. I guess my preference would be a map set with a few extra assets in the same art style for unique customization if needed. I really dislike black and white maps, as I prefer more vibrant colors. General maps are useful, but I'm not above buying a toxic swamp if I have a need, though the more use I think I'd get out of a map set, the more I'd be willing to spend on it.. Med level graphic detail is all I really need. They don't need to be super HQ, but I'd like to differentiate between a pile of rubble, and a chair. 

Customizable content is paramount for me. I want to be able to configure the design myself with pieces parts. Having a couple/few completed maps using the part is not bad either, but I prefer to design my own layouts.

I personally prefer a low number of detailed but empty maps and a good amount of assets to customize them and which I can use outside the set I bought. Another very important thing to me is to find original and uncommon assets, which are rare or absent in other sets. Often I buy a whole set if it contains just a bunch of elements that catches my attention.