Using Roll20 for Table Top Wargames

Is it feasible to adapt some wargames to work on Roll20? If so, how difficult was it and how did you handle the GM vs player issue?

Yes, there are people who have adapted wargames to Roll20. Even Warhammer 40k. I can't think of any particular difficulty.

Regarding the GM vs player issue, what issue is that? It is my understanding that most wargames do not have a GM.

I'd love to hear more about this. Could anyone who's played 40k (or others, but my only real experience is with 40k) chime in with what they did, how it worked, and how it didn't work?
I'm especially curious about stuff like movement distances. I suppose auras could be used, but it'd be even better if you could somehow restrict movement distance. Maybe the Rugged Reroll pathing update could help with this?

I never really liked Vassal (despite being involved with the development of the 6th edition version) but have several friends who are interested in wargaming but can't be bothered to collect miniatures. I'd love to move this to Roll20, if it worked moderately well.

The GM question was regarding the manipulation of stuff. Players being able to come in and play a game on a map of their choice would be ideal. But I don't know if that is possible with only player permissions.

I have been thinking of trying to adapt battle fleet gothic actually. Movement of pieces is what is bothering me. Measuring distances would be easy enough, but getting movement might be a bit tricky.

Way, if you could describe the type of movement involved perhaps I can suggest something.

Regarding permissions, you can promote people to GM. Then they can do (almost) everything you can do.

What I do for my non-RPG games (Axis and Allies Europe, Munchkin, and Star Fleet Battles) is I set up the game and then spin off copies as I need them. That way I do not have to set up the game each time. Then I invite the players to the copy and promote them to GM for those games that require them to have full access (Star Fleet Battles) or so they know there is "nothing up my sleeve" (Munchkin).

I think I understand what you mean about the "GM" of a wargame. It's not that a wargame has a GM, but that someone has to be the GM account that will "host" the game. And that person will have permissions that the other players will not have.

I am seriously considering using Roll20 to re-create and play some of our old favorite Avalon Hill bookcase wargames. It would require a degree of trust on the part of the players towards whomever has the GM account for the game. But really, it's no different than back in the day when we would play a grand campaign game of "War and Peace" and have to leave it set up at someone's house for 2 weeks or more. Or the entire college year when we had GDW's "Fire in the East" set up in my apartment. There's nothing to stop someone from messing with the game pieces between playing sessions, so it involved a degree of trust towards the person whose home was hosting the game. Same concept with the GM account for a Roll20 wargame.

The movement would have to avoid snapping to grid of course, but I think that can be avoided by changing it to drawing (though then they aren't tokens) But the main concern is facing. Though I am still new to roll20, tokens and such all snap to be upright and can't really be aimed. Then again this might all be solved by changing them to drawings. But if they are drawings, can players still manipulate them?

Honestly, this is all guess work on my part. I haven't attempted to do such a thing yet, and was wondering if anyone else has. I know the potential is here, journals that contain all the models stats, macros that automatically do calculations and dice rolls all in one. And once macros can reference values derived from previous functions, this could be amazingly streamlined.

Much like Magnus I have played on Vassal quite a bit, but it was very clunky and didn't enjoy it much. I see more potential here (possibly)

Brett: Screenshots fix that. Alternately, turn records fix it. I use turn records for my asynchronous games.

Way, just turn off the grid. Most wargames do not need it.
For those wargames that do need a grid but need to avoid snapping hold down the ALT key while moving or rotating the token or while measuring and "Snap to Grid" will be ignored.
Of course, you could use "Is Drawing" but that comes with it's own issues (such as being deleted if someone clears all drawings).

For macros that reference previous functions, you can probably do that with the API. I'd ask the API forum.

Way said:

Much like Magnus I have played on Vassal quite a bit, but it was very clunky and didn't enjoy it much. I see more potential here (possibly)

I guess that seals the deal for me then. If I do decide to get back into wargaming, I'll just stick with what I know (Roll20) rather than trying to learn a whole new application. I think I'll start with more of a "beer and pretzels" wargame we used to play first, and see how it works, before trying to recreate the entire eastern front.

Turning off the grid is definitely the way to go, at least for 40k. Facing works fine then.

I think the big problem is limiting movement. The measuring tool is fine, but you can't actually use it to move stuff, nor can you have it stay in place while moving (at least I don't think you can?).
I thought the aura circles could be a solution, but I just had another look and those have 2 major problems:
1) They scale with the size of the token. This might actually be a good thing, but does require very strict token sizing.
2) They move with the token immediately when dragging, so you can't move to the edge of it.

I'm hoping the pathing upgrade in Rugged Reroll can do this (very curious to see a non-grid based demo!). If not, I guess a template token could be made for it, but it'd probably be impractical.

Maybe as simple as using a measuring stick

Way said:

Maybe as simple as using a measuring stick

Sure, that'd definitely work. It's just kind of a hassle.

I had another look at the waypoint video (http://blog.roll20.net/post/64388016499/finding-our-way-rugged-reroll-dev-blog-3), which will supposedly work even without a grid. If it works the same as the ruler for measuring distances, I think that would work very well. I imagine it would be trivial to write a script that updated a token's facing after a move, too.
This, combined with the line of sight updates also coming in Rugged Reroll (specifically the ctrl+L thing), could potentially make for some very robust tools. I think I see myself becoming a Mentor in the near future, if this pans out.

Magnus, you can have the measuring tool stay in place by measuring and (while still measuring) then hitting Ctrl+S (switches to the selction tool). Itll stay on your (not other's) screen until you use the measurement tool again. Note: It is an 'unintended feature'.

Neat. Thanks for the tip :)