How can I choose not to use a character sheet when creating a new character?

So I have a bit of an issue...I'm running Pathfinder on Roll20 and have enabled the pathfinder character sheet so that players can import their sheets.

The problem is that every time I create a new character (For NPCs), it forces them to also use the Pathfinder character sheet template. This adds a ton of attribute fields that I don't want - and also causes a performance problem due to the sheer number of fields.

Is there a way I can allow my players to import their sheets, but not have to use the pathfinder character sheet template for my NPC creations?

Either you use a sheet or not. ;-(  There isn't an option on roll20 to use more than one sheet (I believe there's a suggestion for this).  It sounds like you want to use the PF sheet for PC's only, but do something different with your NPC's?  I believe the CreatureGen script (pro level req) would make mooks that weren't tied to a sheet. Sadly I don't think the script is supported anymore...

You can manually create the "NPC attributes" you want to use and then make "NPC macros" that use those attributes.  It was the only way roll20 used to work before sheets were introduced.  ;-)

To add to Vince's great answer, are you trying to create an entire monster manual for your whole campaign in your game? This is not the recommended method because of the sheer number of attributes that wind up being created (even without a complex sheet like the Pathfinder one). It's far better to only create the creatures you will need for the next couple sessions.

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

To clarify, I don't want to use a character sheet AT ALL for NPC's. I want to just manually create a couple fields for HP and AC, then just duplicate NPC's off that template. Each NPC will only have those 2 fields which will be easy and have faster performance.

Right now, every time I associate a token to a NPC that has the pathfinder sheet, the drop-down menu to assign attributes to the color bars is SLOOOOOOOWWWWWW due to the sheer number of attributes that I don't want and can't seem to permanently delete.

If it's impossible to do what I want, is there instead a nice lite pathfinder sheet? Or a pathfinder sheet that has an NPC option which has far fewer fields, like the standard D&D 5e sheet has?

Stephen L. said:

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

To clarify, I don't want to use a character sheet AT ALL for NPC's. I want to just manually create a couple fields for HP and AC, then just duplicate NPC's off that template. Each NPC will only have those 2 fields which will be easy and have faster performance.

Right now, every time I associate a token to a NPC that has the pathfinder sheet, the drop-down menu to assign attributes to the color bars is SLOOOOOOOWWWWWW due to the sheer number of attributes that I don't want and can't seem to permanently delete.

If it's impossible to do what I want, is there instead a nice lite pathfinder sheet? Or a pathfinder sheet that has an NPC option which has far fewer fields, like the standard D&D 5e sheet has?

FYI: the token bar's attribute list will jump to the first letter your type.  Hit "h" while in the field to step thru the attributes starting with "h".  Hit "a", etc.  This may make things a little faster.  That said if you don't want to link an NPC token to a sheet, then don't.  Just enter a value that you want to use for HP, AC, etc.  You can make a boiler plate/generic monster NPC sheet complete with token actions for attacks, saves, initiative, etc. and then make mooks as needed (https://wiki.roll20.net/Linking_Tokens_to_Journals)

There are a other PF sheets you can try as well.  Legacy and Simple(cazra) come to mind.

You don't have to use the Character Sheet tab at all for your NPCs.
Just use the Attributes & Abilities tab. I do this with all the monsters in my 13th Age game with the Official Character Sheet. New Journal entries are blank with no Attributes or Abilities until you create them. 

If you're just using HP and AC... don't use character sheets at all. Just use token bubbles and some campaign macros.

Hi guys, it seems I wasn't necessarily clear about my use model.

I enable pathfinder character sheets so that players who subscribe and use them can use them in my games.

However, I don't want to use them for NPC's. It slows the drop down menus to a crawl, very poor performance.

I want to enable my players to use character sheets, but NOT have them exist at all for my NPC's.

The answer seems to be that that is not possible. You cannot delete the attribute fields that get populated by the character sheet, they just come back. I have tried. I cannot see any option to manually enable/disable sheets per character either.

Which is why I suggest just using tokens and no character sheets. And instead of making character sheets for npc's, use Handouts to store information about npc's other than HP/AC, which is on the tokens instead.

What didn't work about the idea to use a token not linked to a character sheet? It still has the three bubbles, in case you want to track HP or something, but there is no character sheet involved. You wouldn't be able to store and drag them out of your journal tab, but you could create a page to hold a library of ready-to-go unattached tokens.

Now, you won't be able to use most macros with them, but that's part and parcel of the reason for a character sheet. What specific functionality are you looking for from an NPC?

Stephen L. said:

The answer seems to be that that is not possible.

Correct. You could abstain from creating Characters for NPCs and opt to use Handouts instead.

keithcurtis said:

What didn't work about the idea to use a token not linked to a character sheet? It still has the three bubbles, in case you want to track HP or something, but there is no character sheet involved. You wouldn't be able to store and drag them out of your journal tab, but you could create a page to hold a library of ready-to-go unattached tokens.

Now, you won't be able to use most macros with them, but that's part and parcel of the reason for a character sheet. What specific functionality are you looking for from an NPC?

Thanks for the reply Keith/Sky,

The use of macros for my NPC's is central to my running of games. It speeds everything up and is indispensable. Since Characters are the only option that gives you macros for a specific character, I can't avoid using character sheets if I am using the macros. It would be great if I could create a character that didn't have any connection to the Pathfinder sheet so that I don't have to deal with the performance issues, yet allows my players to import their sheets. But alas it seems that isn't a thing :/

Sounds like you want multiple character sheets in one campaign. Be sure to throw some support to the suggestion that Vince linked to above.

Rabulias said:

Sounds like you want multiple character sheets in one campaign. Be sure to throw some support to the suggestion that Vince linked to above.

Hi Rabulias,

That is exactly what I have been doing actually! The main issue I'm trying to completely remove is the slowness of the attribute drag-down menus when using a complex character sheet like the Pathfinder one. As other people have suggested I can somewhat mitigate the frustration by typing to quickly search for an attribute, which actually I have been doing, but it doesn't bypass the need to actually click the drag-down menu which causes the problem in the first place.

Sometimes when I click the drag-down menu, it freezes, shows a blank drag-down menu, then closes the drag-down menu. Drivin' me bonkers! That's why I was hoping there was a way to assign a specific character sheet or choose not to use one for a particular token, because once you enable a character sheet for your game, it is GLOBAL :(

What macros do you need if you're only going to use AC and HP attributes?

My only suggestion would be to create NPCs as macros. You could have a master macro that acts as a menu for NPC macro groups. Click the "directory" macro, which would call up a nicely formatted NPC macro, which would contain calls to specific macros for that NPC. This would assume that many macros are interchangeable between characters. I don't really know what you are using them for. You wouldn't be able to associate them with tokens, and it would be a pain in the neck to set up, but you would have a library of NPC macro sets that you could drill down to in two clicks.

Alternatively, if you took those individual NPC macros and made the ones you knew you were likely to use for a given adventure available on the macro bar, you could save yourself a click.

API buttons (don't actually require API, despite the name) and roll templates would be your friends here.

To recap:
Menu Macro
  acts as a directory for
NPC Macros
   which are sets of
Individual macro calls

Sky said:

What macros do you need if you're only going to use AC and HP attributes?

Because I create macros for a creature's initiative, attacks, saving throws, and other abilities completely independent of attributes. I only care about attributes for defining HP and AC in the bars above a token. It's much faster than setting up every single attribute, and the macros are still associated with the token.

However your question prompts me to thinking: If I ignore all attributes altogether and just manually enter HP and AC in the token, then save the token to the character in the journal, then I won't ever have to deal with the drop-down menus ever again to begin with. I won't be able to see the HP and AC in the journal but I would see them as soon as I put a copy of the token down onto the map.I think I might just do that!

keithcurtis said:

My only suggestion would be to create NPCs as macros. You could have a master macro that acts as a menu for NPC macro groups. Click the "directory" macro, which would call up a nicely formatted NPC macro, which would contain calls to specific macros for that NPC. This would assume that many macros are interchangeable between characters. I don't really know what you are using them for. You wouldn't be able to associate them with tokens, and it would be a pain in the neck to set up, but you would have a library of NPC macro sets that you could drill down to in two clicks.

Alternatively, if you took those individual NPC macros and made the ones you knew you were likely to use for a given adventure available on the macro bar, you could save yourself a click.

API buttons (don't actually require API, despite the name) and roll templates would be your friends here.

To recap:
Menu Macro
  acts as a directory for
NPC Macros
   which are sets of
Individual macro calls

That's very cool, didn't know you could use a macro to open other macro buttons. Even if I don't use it for this purpose it could be really useful...thanks! 

I use a set-up like that for commonly-referenced rules. I have a directory macro that can activate other macros with the specific rules I need. The directory has buttons for Grappling, or Exhaustion, or Conditions, etc. These buttons call other macros that display the rules in question.

I do wish that I had built them as character macros, so I could more easily export them to other games. Live and learn.