In fact, the problem in a different thread posed was: "Plus, since we're all new to pen-and-papering, my players are super
spoiled . I can tell that they sort of expect to always have a token to
move around on a map, because that feels more like a video game.
Obviously, that's way to much freaking work. " I don't have super-spoiled players,
thus they exist for some, but not for all. Super-spoiled players is a
function of catering to their demands. Thus cater to their demands, or
get new ones. Most DMs don't want to get new ones, though, right? So,
submit to demands, or drop them. It could easily be more complex, but you as a DM are not gonna solve their "problem = spoiled." Move on. It's radical, it's
in fact game-changing (pun intended.) "The DM Sets each
scene, and describes the action." 3.5 PHB. Bam. Right there. Old skool style using whatever
props are at hand, in this case, electronic, via Internet, with nice
cams and microphones and Skype or Google+ and maybe even a Skype
subscription. If you want as DM. But the key is: If the DM wants to go there. When players demand that I work this for free, that's where I get testy. I already do a lot. And
of course, if my style or methods are not appreciated players can vote
with their feet, departing a game where it is described well in advance
the conditions under which I agree to run it, they agree to play. The
social contract. Thus, I can re-state...Someone wants a better
map, tell him, "You draw it." Otherwise this gets to a culture of the
players push the DMs around. No need for that. We got few DMs and a
lot of players, and many of the new skool guys new to gaming, have this idea that combat
means "Break out the minis." And in the case of D&D Player's Handbook, 3.5, he's correct. So it's a mix of The old skool DM describes, maybe a sketch map, and the new culture instituted by Wizards (some Conspiracy theorists will say: to sell minis, because they can't be stolen via torrent.) From
3.5 rulebook, page 4, upper right column, para 1 "The Game assumes the
use of miniatures, and a battle grid, and the rules are written from
this perspective." But not all roleplaying is battle grid, not all
combat has to be. You don't have to break out minis for all combats or any combat, yet many rules systems advise and encourage this. Traveller used to use Range bands. Conspiracy X, and
games by Eden studios emphasize fast action, and description. How come D&D 4e you have 4 players and you need minis, yet in Star Trek RPG you have 1 Enterprise and three Klingons and a minis system is barely suggested? The Author decides. Yet, here it is new guys. In your games, that author is YOU. 4th
edition, you absolutely (well pretty much) must use minis or tokens
and a grid because of the sliding, pushing pulling casting templates and
such. WOTC Declared in the book for 3.5 And again for 4th edition. So yeah, I'm not running 4e here on roll 20. Too many cards. For ME. Nothing wrong with any of that, Game what you like, game what games you want. Whichever game people like, yeah play it. Little Fears, 4e, Time Master, Sandman, Alternity, Dogs in the Vineyard, go for it, no games are wrong. But players Demanding,
because that's what they got used to? There's a cure. Nobody has to agree. It's just one Gm's philosophy. I gave an honest answer. As a GM. How do I deal with the fact that players expect a visual? Jake: ",,,if my players are in a dark alley, I find a picture of an alley on
Google Image, and drag it all the way across the Map Layer of a page on
Roll20. " This is brilliant. There were books in the 70s
and 80s written about what the future of PC Games would be like when
computation and display got fast enough and he's on it. Go with that,
it's a new form, a new style. Jake E. Wrote: "This mostly just frustrates me, because the image only ever approximates
the scene I'm trying to set, and therefore it distracts my players from
the scene I'm creating verbally." Welcome to why we are all
frustrated artists. I wish literally that I could have holograms and
stuff. Running Neverwinter nights was about as live action and real as I
could handle, with the camera zoomed way in on ground level. I see what
my PC sees. they see what I've built. A year of work to learn aurora
toolset language, and program a server, then run it for two years, all
the while fielding spoiled players asking me, "When will this be fixed,
when will the new code for selling cattle be in place?" So three years in, I handed it to someone else. Too much work. Too
many people want stuff for free, and when it's a compete RPG session,
in a venue where there's a ratio of 12 players to each GM, it;s just so
easy to say, I want to play, I want to play, and who wants to GM. Nobody until someone steps up. Gold, Me, Headhunter, Stephen S. Ade Sant, all these people
and more step up to provide. for free. And many get stepped on. By players, used to the culture of the DM is not important. Can't shoot a film without a cameraman, people. So Jake E, and other DMs out there, welcome to the life. I say, find players that won't demand, or you slide the slippery slope. I
got players literally I'd love to move near to to game with in person,
but they live in the UK, Hawaii, Australia, out west in the U,.S. so that's out. But they do not demand, they
ask. I ask of them. Gold called me out. I get it, I am
coming off as caustic. It is not the point though. It's just a
solution that most don't like. Roosevelt decided to drop the
A-Bomb. Yeah he was not beloved for it. But it happened. Twice. No
more war, soon after. Conflict solved. Not every solution can be
pretty. My first marriage ended in divorce, same for a lot of people
these days. But I got a better situation now. This woman and I accept
the fact that I am a gamer, I run games, I am posting on Roll20 as a
mentor who has done this for 36 years at 3 AM, to give asked for advice,
even if it's not the advice many would agree with. In addition
to the stuff people don't like, (get rid of problem players. In fact we had a thread last few weeks ago (how do you handle screening people out) I also welcomed literally a dozen people
new to games this week, encouraging them in their new games, or
arranging to run something with or for them in spring when my schedule
will free up a bit. I do that stuff, too. But if the obvious problem
to me has an obvious solution, I'll give it. In many cases, it is not the first option, nor fun, that it's just not going to work out. the dark side of dating, and marriage and partnerships and how people can relate to each other in life, and in business. Nobody wants to hear those words. It's taboo, yeah. "You're fired." "I met someone else." "I want a divorce." But without that closure, open wounds fester. Whiny players is not a problem that can be solved. It's something set by their parents, years ago. People in this hobby have come to expect free way too much. not saying people should charge to GM, that's yet another thread, but don't expect more and more and more of what is already free. I'm
not saying guillotine is the solution to all problems AD&D. but
it's effective in solving the demanding players problem. There are people here begging to play in games! Begging! Pathfinder, 2e, L5R, Traveller, 3.5, 4e. half a dozen other games. So why court players who will demand? That's what I'm saying. GMs here are literally doing what they can. So, players realize that. And I got two groups that are willing, and eager to play with me, the
hard core as a GM, none of those guys are idiots, or submissive types. I am not the Svengali DM demanding fees or anything just you get a PC, I provide the game setting, we make it work. Together. But don't tell me or the new DMs we are not working hard enough. Many of us pay here for Mentor level. Not much but more than zero. Merry Christmas to all. My wife bought be some power tools to make a minis table for my Vietnam 1/72 miniatures. I'm Happy as hell. Jake,
thanks for being honest that you are a new DM, seeking help. Visuals can work. Headhunter Jones and Gold
are giving good advice. I still think you can open your front door,
toss a stick in any direction, and hit 15 people willing to play a game
on roll 20 that will be happy with whatever you provide, especially
since you are trying. Lets have players and DMs all try together. Like it has been, like it can be more so. *hoists shield +5 vs rotten tomatoes in preparation as a standard action, held for last step in initiative order vs blow back for my recent heresy.*
