Would you allow a character to skip several sessions to create an item?

Curious to know if a player wanted to make an item would you allow them to be off duty for several sessions to create the item? Was thinking of making a weapon or improving armor. Might take me several sessions to do though. Crafting hasn't been covered in briefing though so no idea on timescales involved.

Yes, no problem for me as DM. In our game, you could tap in another character if you like. (My regular campaign is a "cast of thousands" where people have multiple characters coming and going at will.) Or we can just advance time to the point at which you are done with your crafting and we can just ask everyone else what they did during that time. I'm an advocate of tight pacing, scene-framing, and "editing" like in a movie. Skip over the mundane stuff and get right to the heroic fantasy, filling in the blanks with some good collaboration, narration, and dialogue. Ragnar walks into the fiery forge with raw materials, there's a montage scene of him pounding away with a hammer on a glowing blade, wiping the sweat from his brow, then "Three Weeks Later" flashes on the screen and now Ragnar and his comrades are at the entrance to the dungeon with his new sword drawn, gleaming in the dying sun...

GMs should not be the ones to "allow" anything. I'd encourage the player do whatever they wanted, but I'd wonder why they wanted that. If it was in order to simulate the time spent, I'd suggest that we could handwave that, or make the creation of the item more contingent on the acquisition of a particular item that the character could attempt to acquire in the normal course of the adventure. If it was just or in part because the player wanted to run a different character for a while, I'd encourage them to just do that.

At the moment I'm just looking into the idea of missing a few sessions to get key equipment.

Steven B. said: At the moment I'm just looking into the idea of missing a few sessions to get key equipment. You yourself, or your character? If it's just the character, cool, you can play with a different concept for a while. Make sure the GM has a good way to move and remove the back-up character so your old one can step back in. If it's you, think about what you're contemplating: not playing the game for days or weeks, so you can then play it a little bit better? No equipment is that key, and if it is the GM should just make sure you have it. Not playing the game is not part of playing the game.

Steven B. said: Curious to know if a player wanted to make an item would you allow them to be off duty for several sessions to create the item? Was thinking of making a weapon or improving armor. Might take me several sessions to do though. Crafting hasn't been covered in briefing though so no idea on timescales involved. What game system are you playing? Older versions of D&D go into the subject of magic item creation somewhat, but I cannot speak to more recent versions.

Brett E. said: Steven B. said: Curious to know if a player wanted to make an item would you allow them to be off duty for several sessions to create the item? Was thinking of making a weapon or improving armor. Might take me several sessions to do though. Crafting hasn't been covered in briefing though so no idea on timescales involved. What game system are you playing? Older versions of D&D go into the subject of magic item creation somewhat, but I cannot speak to more recent versions. None of them outright require a player (or even a character) to be "off duty" for several sessions. Even if that could be interpreted from the rules, I would fully expect a GM to find a way to keep the player involved, rather than having them sit out.

It's Darksun for DnD 3.5, gear lists are very short so self made seems to be the order of the day.

Steven B. said: It's Darksun for DnD 3.5, gear lists are very short so self made seems to be the order of the day. The gear lists aren't everything that exist in the world, first of all. Second of all, sure, cool, people make stuff in the world. But that itself is not the point of the game, and removing either a player or a character from the game in order to accomplish it is missing the point in a big way. In any case, get on the same page about this with your GM. It seems like you're making a lot of assumptions based on very little information about this game.

I can buy anything on the lists which is very little. With no listing for gear will have to make it myself. Will see if the other players found any gear. Most groups I build are issued all necessary gear from the off. Helps players to focus on having fun and being well prepared. No issued gear means lots of very detailed info on everything as if you don't have it you WILL need it at somepoint.

Steven B. said: I can buy anything on the lists which is very little. With no listing for gear will have to make it myself. Will see if the other players found any gear. You talk in the other thread about being self-sufficient. Why are you making a character that requires gear that isn't readily available? Don't assume that crafting needs to take you or the character out of the game.

Steven B: The advice to consult your DM first is sound, before you go too much further down the tracks with your idea. One idea might be to look into hiring an expert craftsman to do the work for you. The end product would probably of higher quality and it frees up your character to do other things while the work is being done.

Steven B. said: No issued gear means lots of very detailed info on everything as if you don't have it you WILL need it at somepoint. I don't quite understand this sentence. You mean that lots of detailed info is presented, implying that it will be needed? What do you mean by "need." What happens if you don't have what you need?

Maybe it sounds a little whiny and it isn't how I mean it. I always issue equipment for starting out and even the first round of upgrades before letting the players do their own thing. I have had a few tough DMs who held by the line: if you don't have it on your sheet you don't have it. While others assumed we had the small stuff and only tracked the big stuff. I went from slave to adventurer so have no idea who the others are and have no gear. Since I have no idea what I have to pay for things or if they are available; I am inclined to junk the adventures till I feel fully prepared for it. For fully handmade gear it might be 2 months before I will be equipped to do that. If pushed could spend all the time making money and pay for it to be made. I have little info to go on so don't really feel like going on a quest until gear issue is resolved.

I recommend not even joining these players until all of your questions are resolved.

I feel I need to be extremely careful to buy everything I need or find major problems on the field. When you spend more time double checking you have a bedroll and a full set of camping gear to be carried on your back before you buy a stick to defend yourself it will make adventuring a very slow process.

Steven B. said: I feel I need to be extremely careful to buy everything I need or find major problems on the field. When you spend more time double checking you have a bedroll and a full set of camping gear to be carried on your back before you buy a stick to defend yourself it will make adventuring a very slow process. Yes. Doesn't sound fun to me. If it's not fun for you, get some clarification, or don't play with that group. Don't play but hide; just don't play. What do you mean by "major problems on the field"?

Depends on the DM, with my evil DM hat on a poorly equipped player: suffers exposure, starvation, disease, loss of ammo for ranged weapons, getting lost in the desert, capture by slavers or separation from squad and death. I might be over thinking it but I'm looking at carrying 40lbs of gear without combat supplies.

Steven B. said: Depends on the DM, with my evil DM hat on a poorly equipped player: suffers exposure, starvation, disease, loss of ammo for ranged weapons, getting lost in the desert, capture by slavers or separation from squad and death. Ok. Are those things fun for the player? If so, then there's no problem. If not, one wonders the value of imposing consequences like that. "Realism," sure, but lots of things are "realistic," and usually there's an outcome that is both "realistic" and "fun." 40 pounds of equipment is no joke, and a GM who tracks starvation and ammo probably tracks encumbrance, so you might be in trouble either way. The bottom line is that if the GM wants to mess with your character they will. If you don't know how the GM feels about character death, or keeping characters from participating meaningfully, you have to be prepared to lose and replace your character. I believe original Dark Sun even strongly recommended having multiple back-up characters. If I were you, I'd focus more on that than on the details of equipment; it's more fun, and more likely to maintain your participation in the game.

Steven B. said: Curious to know if a player wanted to make an item would you allow them to be off duty for several sessions to create the item? Was thinking of making a weapon or improving armor. Might take me several sessions to do though. Crafting hasn't been covered in briefing though so no idea on timescales involved. Why would you want to sit out? Is there no down time between adventurers? I suppose the GM can't force the character to go on an adventure, but does your adventuring troupe want to not have a critical member of the party on an adventure so he can stay home and make stuff? If you have multiple characters, I suppose it's different and you can have one sit out and makes things while another adventures. Heck, even with one character, one of my favorite uses of the Leadership feat (in 3.5/pathfinder) is to have a wizard hanging back from the adventures and making me things. The way we've done it in the past is if there are a lot of subsequent adventures, the character can't craft, but if there is down-time (that we fast-forward through), then the character can make stuff during that period of time (and track the time it takes to do so). Other characters can use profession, perform, gather information (for 3.5e), or whatever they want to do during that time. Steven B. said: I always issue equipment for starting out and even the first round of upgrades before letting the players do their own thing. I have had a few tough DMs who held by the line: if you don't have it on your sheet you don't have it. While others assumed we had the small stuff and only tracked the big stuff. There are good reasons for a GM to do that and not do that, depending on the style of game. Can't you just ask your GM, "Do we track all equipment, or just the big stuff (like armor, weapons, magic items, etc.). How do we do encumbrance? Do we track weight or just keep it reasonable? Another rule? How will crafting work in this game? When will I have a chance to craft? Are there any houserules for crafting?" To be honest, most of these questions are best answered by your GM and other players. A lot of these things are going to depend on the specific game you are playing in. A lot of times the answers will be yes for some games and no for others, with the same GM running them.

Brett E. said: Older versions of D&D go into the subject of magic item creation somewhat, but I cannot speak to more recent versions. FWIW, in 4e: Enchant Magic Item (ritual) takes 1 hour, and costs the price of the magic item you're creating. (Alternatively, if you're upgrading an existing item, the cost is the difference between the items' costs, and if you're resizing armor for a different size creature, it's free.) Forge Armor and Forge Weapon (martial practice) both take 1 day, and costs the price of the magic weapon/armor you're creating. Master Artisan (martial practice) takes 1 hour (or more at GM's discretion), and costs the price of the mundane item you're creating. Alchemist (feat) plus the appropriate alchemical formula lets you make alchemical items; their price and creation time varies by item, though the time is usually a matter of minutes. Make Whole (ritual) takes 10 minutes and costs 20% of the price of the item you're repairing. Temporary Fix (martial practice) takes 10 minutes and costs 1 healing surge, although the repaired item becomes damaged again after 24 hours.

Thanks Brian, good to know the crafting options.

For D&D 3.5 you have mundane crafting: <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/craft.htm</a> magic item creation: <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagic" rel="nofollow">http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagic</a>... I am not familiar with Dark Sun, so check to make sure there are no special crafting rules for that setting.

Had an idea to buy basic gear and put all the rest of my cash into a business that makes adventuring equipment. Is there a formula or equation to work out much of an item you can make in a week on average?

Yes, there is apparently. It's pretty hilarious. To determine how much time and money it takes to make an item, follow these steps. Find the item’s price. Put the price in silver pieces (1 gp = 10 sp). Find the DC from the table below. Pay one-third of the item’s price for the cost of raw materials. Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week’s work. If the check succeeds, multiply your check result by the DC. If the result × the DC equals the price of the item in sp, then you have completed the item. (If the result × the DC equals double or triple the price of the item in silver pieces, then you’ve completed the task in one-half or one-third of the time. Other multiples of the DC reduce the time in the same manner.) If the result × the DC doesn’t equal the price, then it represents the progress you’ve made this week. Record the result and make a new Craft check for the next week. Each week, you make more progress until your total reaches the price of the item in silver pieces. If you fail a check by 4 or less, you make no progress this week. If you fail by 5 or more, you ruin half the raw materials and have to pay half the original raw material cost again. Progress by the Day You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) is in copper pieces instead of silver pieces.

I made up an excel file using that and an average dice roll. If you hire enough helpers you can make a huge pile of cash.

Steven B. said: I made up an excel file using that and an average dice roll. If you hire enough helpers you can make a huge pile of cash. You can also use those helpers to accelerate a brick to the speed of light. Doesn't mean it's intended or worth doing, though.

Notably, these are the rules for crafting, not for selling what you've crafted. I believe selling goods in D&D 3.5 nets you 50% of the item's value, so it would seem that crafting then selling in that fashion is a losing proposition. You might be able to offset that with ranks in Profession (Shopkeeper) and some decent rolls but I wouldn't bet on it working out to net profitability. Not surprisingly, it seems that the best way to earn income in a game about heroic fantasy action/adventure is by actually adventuring. Go figure. :)

Adventuring might make the most cash but having a sideline never hurts. Must hire a merchant to sell the goods and boost cash flow. Adventuring is an expensive business.

Steven B. said: Adventuring might make the most cash but having a sideline never hurts. Must hire a merchant to see the goods and boost cash flow. Adventuring is an expensive business. Seriously? And what are you spending that cash on? Reinvesting it in your business, with an eye toward infrastructure and Tyr's first pension plan, while socking away a nice nest egg for when you're roleplaying your character's well-earned retirement?

Well I don't expect to make much cash from adventuring for several levels. The business would ensure plenty of equipment available and pay for healing.

Steven B. said: Well I don't expect to make much cash from adventuring for several levels. The business would ensure plenty of equipment available and pay for healing. Why would you expect a GM who is deliberately keeping your character poor not to have your business come to disastrous ruin?

That is a fair point.

Steven B. said: That is a fair point. Thank you. And what's your goal in the game, as a player? If it's to keep your character alive long enough to die of old age then, yeah, becoming a merchant is probably as safe an occupation as any on Athas. I wouldn't sell to adventurers, though; those jerks will kill you and burn your shop to the ground the moment they get bored. Or is your goal to adventure? What's preventing that? The risk? What risk? Death of the character? Make another one. Misuse by the GM of your time as a player? I can't help you there, talk to the GM.

My point is to fend off boredom. The character can just go drinking and gambling but I am getting bored. Resorting to DnD meets the Patrician in order to try to have a connection to the location I adventure in. I am investing time into creating a business empire so that the times between sessions I have something to do and some cash of my own.

Work it out with your group however you can, so that you can do whatever interests you. Whether that's just endless adventuring, founding your own kingdom, or just starting a business where you perceive a need. Don't let Paul U's negative attitude limit your ideas for your character. I really like the idea of starting a business to forge some concrete ties to your home base. I could even see a very interesting game arising out of your character running a trade route. Moreover, I appreciate the idea of trying to give your character a life beyond the 'ultra-heroic', and an appreciable goal besides "hit stuff with other stuff, then take their stuff."

Thanks Billy. I think I need more then I'm getting from the group I'm with at the moment. I like to have a something that adds some depth. Provides some natural adventure hooks too. Need a bigger forge then you have to get a special order anvil. That guy needs something from you to do the job.

I think it is a great idea, and you should at least pitch it to your group if you find it interesting. After you are established you could even raise a private army (muhahaha) and start to shake things up a little. It could also give your GM some interesting adventure hooks. "A thief broke into my vault? How could that be? I had the finest wizards magically trap it. Find a scout, I would follow her to the gates of hell to get that Holy Avenger back." I'd recommend using domain building rules as a base which should be able to cover most of the expense side of things. Dark Dungeons (or Rules Cyclopedia if you can get a hold of it), or Pathfinder (Ultimate Campaign) have rules for domain building that you might find useful. Adventure Conquer King is also suppose to have great rules, but I have never read them so I can't make a recommendation. These systems have the added benefit of giving rules for using your private army (muhahaha). With regard to revenue, that might be a little trickier to handle. I would recommend looking for rules that handle it in other RPGs and porting them over to your game's economy (unless you have a solid statistics background, in which case, you can just design your own). Of course it goes without saying, before you put much work into it, run it be your group first.

You know, I've thought about this, and there's no reason it can't work. Talk it over with your GM of course, as we've all been saying, but if you really want to burn down crowded brothels and slaughter the town guard just because you're bored, I don't see why you shouldn't be accommodated. The sky's the limit, no matter what anyone says, and, hey!, talk about depth and adventure hooks! Then, once they're on to you, you can disappear for a few decades and pop up again in another city with the same MO. Awesome stuff, and just as worthwhile as anything anyone else at the table had in mind. "Yes, and...!"

Problem is responses from the group are only recieved on a two week basis. So waiting for them before thinking up an idea means I will probably forget it by next session. So I was using the forums to workshop the idea and have several defined alternatives that I can bring to the next session in 2 weeks.

Steven B. said: Problem is responses from the group are only recieved on a two week basis. So waiting for them before thinking up an idea means I will probably forget it by next session. So I was using the forums to workshop the idea and have several defined alternatives that I can bring to the next session in 2 weeks. Well, in preparation, you can go on wikipedia to look up a list of real-world accelerants. Some of these will not be naturally occurring, but there are probably plenty of others (arson is not a new crime) and even in Athas there are probably alchemists who can gin stuff up. The price might be a bit high, but you can just kill them when they demand payment. I think this idea can really work, and your GM will appreciate the thought you've put in.

I thought I would start a business catering to adventurers. Get all your equipment, weapons and armor in one place. So if I want something I ask the guild rep for it and they work out the time it will take and the price. No equipment lists and I can buy pre assembled traveling packs. Going in the bush for a week, buy this backpack and it has all you need. Player just pays the bill and can focus on going on the quest. Want a +99 sword of kill everything, DC 5 for the player. Just ask the guild, then the DM works out how much it will cost to investigate the rarity of it, another charge to get it made and a third charge to have it delivered. Also no saying the guild won't tell the authorities and have you arrested, and they can keep your cash.

As has been said in the thread, the best thing to do is probably discuss this with the group. Okay, this seems to be not really an option for you, but still, at the end of the day, you'll usually walk away from a forum thread like this with a bunch of opinions and arguments that, while they may all be extremely well thought out, may not apply to your party. Like, take my 2 cents for example: I never use crafting in my campaigns. Not as a DM and not as a player if I can help it. Aside from the fact that everything that we do find adventuring boiling down to "how much cash can we get for it to fund our crafting efforts for the items we really want?", there's the exact issue you describe. What if somebody has to spend 2 months crafting this thing and our campaigns moves at a pace of two in-game days per session? Does the character come back 30 sessions down the line, presumbly long after whatever quests the party was on is done? Do I as the DM arbitrarily freeze the world as a whole so we can fast-forward 2 months while 4 guys twiddle their thumbs waiting for Captain McCraftypants? If a player was doing this purely to generate cash to buy other things I'd probably direct them to an MMO where they can get their fix of grinding and crafting to make a living. Or I'd suggest that maybe he should make 20 more characters and have each of them craft items all the time and finance one character that does the actual adventuring. I'd probably be just ever so slightly sarcastic about it. So yea. With me as a DM. This probably wouldn't fly. But other DMs may be totally fine with it and that's absolutely cool.

Thanks guys,great feedback. Some very inspiring responses to think about and have fun with. That's what I love about this community, there is always something to make you think about things in a different way.

Reminds me of the last 3.5 campaign I played. The GM cared about verisimilitude (hah!) and so he had us calculating the weight of our coin, and made us use money changers if we wanted to carry 1gp instead of 10sp (for example). This was problematic when he would do things like throw 100,000cp at us. -_- So I invented the concept of a bank, and hired all the best money changers to work there (basically tellers). Bought a kingdom, bankrupted a neighbor, and revolutionized the campaign's setting. Welcome to the modern world. /swag

I like that idea. Put a smile on my face reading it.

There are house rules and even commercial products out there that are designed to provide useful pursuits for player characters to engage in during the "in-between" times in town. So, for example, if the GM says a character needs a week or two of game time to craft an item, research a book or whatever, the remaining characters could engage in these other pursuits during that same time. They can accomplish useful things themselves and even earn experience points. It doesn't have to be role-played out (unless you want to), it can be done with a few dice rolls and then consult charts to see what was achieved by the other characters.Then, at the end of it all, everyone is back together and ready for the next adventure.