Needing some Character Creation help

Okay, I'm gonna shake a puppy like a maraca if I can't find the answers to some of my basic questions, because with all the INFINITE KNOWLEDGE OF THE INTERNET, I can't for the life of me find this basic, simple, rather important information. Now, What I want to know is the attack bonuses and damage bonuses for a Bard using a Longsword, by which I mean, "Attack if Proficient +3" ... +3 to what? Dex? Str? Your favorite color?! And then, what's the damage? "d8+"... A herring? I DON'T KNOW! This is all I have for now, and I'll likely post on this soon just for reference, but yeah. The internet is turning out to be a little less "Font of unbound knowledge" and a little more "Font of trivia that is sometimes updated when someone feels like it".

Moved to Off-Topic. Which game system are you playing?

Oh, sorry ^^: Also 4e.

ok, first thing first, you need to under stand "what" of your question I mean, You may think something like"d8+" would be easy to find. that the problem the internet has "terms" as I like to call them that are thing you must look up to find your answer. "attack if Proficent-" look like a "jargon", It means it power for your unit, in order to find out what it means, you must look at the D&D book of stats for the jargon

I understand the "Jargon", as you put it, quite well enough, however what I'm asking is based on the fact that every Class and Sub-class has different bonuses to a weapons attack rolls and potential damage output, and no Wiki, Wikia, Site, Blog or what-have-you will tell me such specifics, simply that a Longswords attack roll is +3 to your ??? modifier and it's damage is 1d8 + ???. So my question is what those ??? values specifically are for a Tiefling Bard.

well it may work like this it 1d8 + attack roll +3

*sigh* <a href="http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Longsword" rel="nofollow">http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Longsword</a> These, in (very) specific are the stats I am referring too. It gives me the +3 to attack rolls, but a +3 to what for attack rolls? Dexterity or Strength? With a Bard, I'm not certain which it is, given how versatile a Bard is in what it can do. On top of that, the Damage roll is 1d8 to, again, some very specific value (i.e. a Warrior gets its Strength modifier to the base attack modifier of the weapon they are using, which, in the case of a Longsword with 1d8, and the assumption that your Fighter has a Strength modifier +3, plus you Constitution modifier as well would equal a +6 to attack rolls.). Now. Those specific values for a Tiefling Bard are a mystery to me, and I would like for someone with such knowledge to inform me, considering the internet refuses to yield it.

well I don't play D&D e4 (home brewer wargamer) I think you just add +3 to all attack rolls

We don't have enough information to calculate this for you (What are your stats? What level are you? Are you using a charisma based Bard attack power or a melee basic attack? Do you have any feats which add to your attack or damage roll?). So, here's how to calculate it yourself. To calculate your attack bonus in 4e, it's basically: (Ability Modifier) + (1/2 Level) + (Weapon Proficiency) + (other bonuses to attack rolls, from magic items, feats, etc) The +3 is the weapon proficiency bonus in this situation. It will apply to any weapon-based attack you make with the longsword. Your weapon die is 1d8. That means whenever you see a [W], that [W] means 1d8. To use an example, say you want to use the at-will power War Song Strike. It is a weapon-based attack, which is Charisma vs. AC. So, using your longsword, your total attack bonus will be: (Charisma Modifier) + (1/2 level) + (Weapon Proficiency) + (other bonuses) This power says that it does 1[W] + Charisma modifier damage on a hit. So, to calculate that, you add up: [W] + (Charisma Modifier) + (other bonuses) And for you, that [W] is 1d8.

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman said: well it may work like this it 1d8 + attack roll +3 That is not how it works. Stmpeng MK.1 tankman said: well I don't play D&D e4 (home brewer wargamer) I think you just add +3 to all attack rolls I'd suggest it might be best if you refrain from giving advice if you don't play 4e. If you don't know how the system works and try to give advice anyways, you'll just confuse people. Like if I were to give advice about your home-brew wargames.

... *clutches head* Okay, I'm going to make this a fill-in-the-blanks thing, just for the sake of simplicity. A Rouge using a dagger (+3 to attack rolls and 1d4 damage stats) at level 1 with a dexterity modifier of +4 has an attack the is calculated like this: 3 (dagger attack bonus) +4 (Dexterity modifier) ---- 7 (the attack roll of the rouge with a basic melee attack) //assuming the attack lands, you calculate damage// 1-4 (1d4's potential result on a roll) + 4 (the rouges Dexterity modifier) ------- 5-8 (the potential result of a successful attack) Now, I would like someone, preferably with, perhaps, the PLAYERS HANDBOOK to do just such an equation for a Bard in a 4e building style. Here are the stats of said Bard Strength: 10 mod +0 Constitution: 13 mod +1 Dexterity: 11 mod +0 Intelligence:16 mod +3 Wisdom:12 mod +1 Charisma:18 mod +4 So, I believe this is perfectly adequate information to be of greatly appreciated help. ...Please?

crimsyn gave you your answer above. Assuming a Charisma-based weapon attack, which is what a bard does except for a melee basic attack (which is based on Strength) or a Charisma-based implement attack. Attack: 1d20 + 3 (longsword proficiency bonus) + 0 (half of your level, assuming level 1 here) + 4 (Charisma modifier) = 1d20+7 vs Defense Damage: 1d8 + 4 (Charisma modifier) = 1d8+4. Damage range is thus 5 to 12. If it's a melee basic attack, it's therefore 1d20+3 vs AC for 1d8 damage. Damage range is 1 to 8.

crimsyn said: Stmpeng MK.1 tankman said: well it may work like this it 1d8 + attack roll +3 That is not how it works. Stmpeng MK.1 tankman said: well I don't play D&D e4 (home brewer wargamer) I think you just add +3 to all attack rolls I'd suggest it might be best if you refrain from giving advice if you don't play 4e. If you don't know how the system works and try to give advice anyways, you'll just confuse people. Like if I were to give advice about your home-brew wargames. well I know how it works a little, so don't say I don't know how to play it

I wasn't talking about an ability, I was talking about a basic, unmodified, no added effects Melee Attack! There is no weapon attack that has only +3 to attacks! That's far too low to even be worth the proficiency training! And 1d8 is far to low for damage as well, un less you add something to it, otherwise a lvl 1, lvl 20, or a lvl 946 Bard will never be able to deal any more than 8 damage, rendering it useless. I will ask again. 1d8 + what, for damage? 3+ what equals the attack bonus? Now, against my intent to try to be somewhat subtle and polite on this forum (which I may as well forget now), If you do not own the players hand book, or other such information, PLEASE DON'T ANSWER HERE! (gah! I thought this would be a simple enough question.)

Bori Stonecutter said: Okay, I'm gonna shake a puppy like a maraca if I can't find the answers to some of my basic questions, because with all the INFINITE KNOWLEDGE OF THE INTERNET, I can't for the life of me find this basic, simple, rather important information. Now, What I want to know is the attack bonuses and damage bonuses for a Bard using a Longsword, by which I mean, "Attack if Proficient +3" ... +3 to what? Dex? Str? Your favorite color?! And then, what's the damage? "d8+"... A herring? I DON'T KNOW! This is all I have for now, and I'll likely post on this soon just for reference, but yeah. The internet is turning out to be a little less "Font of unbound knowledge" and a little more "Font of trivia that is sometimes updated when someone feels like it". I know I am very old school, but has it occurred to you that if you buy and read the book, it might answer your questions?

Stmpeng MK.1 tankman said: well I know how it works a little, so don't say I don't know how to play it Evidently not, if you think it works like "1d8 + attack roll + 3"

... I cannot afford the $35-40 book. I've been living off ramen for the past 5 days. However, though it would only cost me $35-40 and a drive, it would cost someone else significantly less, by opening a book, flipping some pages and typing out the result I so desperately need.

Bori Stonecutter said: I wasn't talking about an ability, I was talking about a basic, unmodified, no added effects Melee Attack! There is no weapon attack that has only +3 to attacks! That's far too low to even be worth the proficiency training! And 1d8 is far to low for damage as well, un less you add something to it, otherwise a lvl 1, lvl 20, or a lvl 946 Bard will never be able to deal any more than 8 damage, rendering it useless. I will ask again. 1d8 + what, for damage? 3+ what equals the attack bonus? Now, against my intent to try to be somewhat subtle and polite on this forum (which I may as well forget now), If you do not own the players hand book, or other such information, PLEASE DON'T ANSWER HERE! (gah! I thought this would be a simple enough question.) First, calm down. You're being very aggressive with people who are only trying to help. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, and if you keep being aggressive, no one will want to help you. Second, I do own the Players Handbook, along with several other books and have a lot of experience with 4e, both playing and DMing. Do you own the PHB? Because all your answers are in there. Third, I already gave you the answer and so did Headhunter Jones. At least, the best answers we could give with you being unclear on the question and not providing all relevant info. Anyways, for a Melee Basic Attack (MBA), see page 287 of the PHB. Information on how to calculate attack rolls is on pg, 274, and information on how to calculate damage rolls is on pg 276. Melee Basic Attack... Attack: Strength vs. AC Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage To calculate your attack bonus, you add: (Ability modifier (STR)) + (1/2 level) + (proficiency bonus) + (other bonuses) Assuming you are level 1 and you don't have any other bonuses to the attack roll from feats or magic item enhancement bonuses, that becomes: 0 + 0 + 3 + 0 = +3 With an attack bonus of +3, your attack roll is d20+3 On to your damage bonus. With a Melee Basic Attack, your damage roll is: 1[W] + (Ability modifier (STR)) + (other bonuses) Again, assuming you don't have any damage bonuses from feats, magic item enhancement bonuses, etc., this gives a result of 1d8 + 0 + 0 = 1d8 So, to recap, for a Melee Basic Attack, you have: Attack roll: d20+3 Damage roll: 1d8 All that said, you will likely not be using your Melee Basic Attack very often. Aside from things like attacks of opportunity, you will more likely rely on your attack powers. These are going to be much more effective than an MBA because the attack and damage rolls are based on Charisma, which is your best stat, instead of Strength, and they usually have some sort of bonus effect. You can calculate the attack and damage rolls for that yourself with the info I already gave you.

@-@ S-... So you're telling me that... A Bard... A tiefling bard... With a Longsword Will never. Ever. Be able to do more than... 1d8? ě_ě The class I was looking most forward to playing... above all else... The most versatile class in the game... The famed Jack of all trades! Even if my Bard is level 30 he will never be able to deal any more damage than a measly 1d8!?!

Bori Stonecutter said: @-@ S-... So you're telling me that... A Bard... A tiefling bard... With a Longsword Will never. Ever. Be able to do more than... 1d8? ě_ě The class I was looking most forward to playing... above all else... The most versatile class in the game... The famed Jack of all trades! Even if my Bard is level 30 he will never be able to deal any more damage than a measly 1d8!?! No, I am not telling you that. I am calculating what your attack bonus and damage roll for a melee basic attack for a level 1 bard, as you requested. You are making false assumptions based off of a complete lack of knowledge of the system. Since you don't have the book and don't really know what you are talking about, would it be easier for me to just quickly create you a character in the character builder? You want a level 1 Tiefling Bard, with a longsword who uses mostly melee attacks, right?

crimsyn said: Stmpeng MK.1 tankman said: well I know how it works a little, so don't say I don't know how to play it Evidently not, if you think it works like "1d8 + attack roll + 3" I said "a little", not the whole rule book

crimsyn said: Bori Stonecutter said: @-@ S-... So you're telling me that... A Bard... A tiefling bard... With a Longsword Will never. Ever. Be able to do more than... 1d8? ě_ě The class I was looking most forward to playing... above all else... The most versatile class in the game... The famed Jack of all trades! Even if my Bard is level 30 he will never be able to deal any more damage than a measly 1d8!?! No, I am not telling you that. I am calculating what your attack bonus and damage roll for a melee basic attack for a level 1 bard, as you requested. You are making false assumptions based off of a complete lack of knowledge of the system. Since you don't have the book and don't really know what you are talking about, would it be easier for me to just quickly create you a character in the character builder? You want a level 1 Tiefling Bard, with a longsword who uses mostly melee attacks, right? Oh, no, no, that's alright. I've got a very specific idea for how this character is to be built. I have all the abilities, skills, defences and all those things, I just couldn't believe that Bards don't get any bonuses to MBA damage aside from Bardic spells or feats.

If you want to improve your MBA, your best bet is to take the feat Melee Training (Charisma). This will make your MBA be based on Charisma, which is by far your best stat. Although, again, you will probably not use it much if you have a melee at-will attack power because that power will be a better choice most of the time. Also, there are other feats that can improve your attack and damage roll like Weapon Expertise and Weapon Focus feats.

That's actually perfect! Thank you so much! One more question, can you actually apply a heroic tier feat (which melee training is) to a level 1 character, or will he just be reserved for support till a certain level?

*reads GM book* ._. Never mind, I found it. But yeah, I thank you very, VERY much Crimsyn for that information!

This whole thread just gave me a headache =( Bori, what other game systems have you played? I get the impression you are applying 3.5/Pathfinder assumptions to 4e, which will end up giving you a grossly underpowered character. "Standard attacks" are rarely used in 4e (ignoring Essentials classes) and buffing them up is going to be a waste of feats 90% of the time. I highly recommend reading the Player's Handbook or Rules Compendium (Essentials, but pretty much same rules, just updated) before you get too deep into character creation and playing. If you absolutely cannot get either of those, check out the official quick start rules from the Wizard's website. It doesn't go into details but should get you started on the basics. Good luck.

I have played absolutely no other games. In fact, this character is being made for my first homebrew campaign. However, the Pathfinder confusion would explain a lot, considering every Site and Wiki on earth seems to be more concerned with PF information and the D&D gets the shaft... =_= Also, I'd use the players handbooks had I, as I said earlier, the money to spend nearly $100+ on books. But, seeing as I don't I expected atleast ONE old veteran might be able to answer my questions.

Bori Stonecutter said: But, seeing as I don't I expected atleast ONE old veteran might be able to answer my questions. With your attitude, you're lucky anyone answered your question. People are commenting here to try to help you out with no benefit to themselves and you are condescending them, ridiculous.

Tree Ant said: Bori Stonecutter said: But, seeing as I don't I expected atleast ONE old veteran might be able to answer my questions. With your attitude, you're lucky anyone answered your question. People are commenting here to try to help you out with no benefit to themselves and you are condescending them, ridiculous. *rereads* Oh!, Oh, I'm terribly sorry, that's a typo on my part! ^^; Eh-heh-heh-heh... *sigh* God I'm an idiot... -_-+

I bought the 3rd edition book when it came out but never could find a group who still played. I made a character using the disc it came with, so...how does one go about playing a rolled up character here, and where would I store my record sheets??

CatStarSTO said: I bought the 3rd edition book when it came out but never could find a group who still played. I made a character using the disc it came with, so...how does one go about playing a rolled up character here, and where would I store my record sheets?? Find a group that is playing the same game and edition that you want to play, roll up a character, print off the sheet for your reference while playing, and make some macros for die rolls. Where's the problem?

I haven't sit in on one of your guys sessions yet. I wasn't sure how a DM would handle things, or how we communicate. Over the net style would be new to me.

CatStarSTO said: I haven't sit in on one of your guys sessions yet. I wasn't sure how a DM would handle things, or how we communicate. Over the net style would be new to me. Well, hey, welcome! Your best bet is to use the "Looking for Group" finder above - in the big blue header - and try to find a game that welcomes new players and is playing 3E D&D. Different GMs can handle things pretty differently from one another even within Roll20. You might want to see if you can track down Youtube videos of a session being played which could give a pretty good overview of how things are played.

Double post due to the server being a Seahawks fan, I guess. Nothing to see here!

CatStarSTO said: I bought the 3rd edition book when it came out but never could find a group who still played. I made a character using the disc it came with, so...how does one go about playing a rolled up character here, and where would I store my record sheets?? Also look for Pathfinder and D&D 3.5 games. A lot of the 3E crowd has moved over to Pathfinder and it will help you find a group if you are more flexible with the exact version of the game. The rules are very similar as is the style and feel of the games to D&D 3E. The core rules for D&D 3.5 can be found here <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.d20srd.org/</a>, and the Pathfinder rules and many supplements can be found here <a href="http://paizo.com/prd/" rel="nofollow">http://paizo.com/prd/</a>. You can purchase a PDF of the Pathfinder core rulebook for $10.

Thank you for the help. =^.^=

Bori Stonecutter said: ... I cannot afford the $35-40 book. I've been living off ramen for the past 5 days. However, though it would only cost me $35-40 and a drive, it would cost someone else significantly less, by opening a book, flipping some pages and typing out the result I so desperately need. Just a suggestion for this dilemma, you can find the OFFICIAL FREE version of 4e rules here---&gt; SRD System Reference Document edit: a little out of date here, but also, the SRD may not be as helpful as the 3.5 version. Sorry. :)

Wow, that is cool, I did not know there was a 4ed SRD

It's not as open as the 3e version. Not at all. I don't play 4e so I posted the link before I fully explored it.