calling macro from a purple button nesting in a query

Hello everyone.
I'm trying to mix things for esthetic and practical purpose, but I'm not finding the solution :

something like :

?{query |
   action1, &{template:default} {{name=@{selected|character_name} action1}} {{[button1](! %{selected|macro1}) = [button2](! %{selected|macro2})}} |
   action2, &{template:default} {{name=@{selected|character_name} action2}} {{[button3](! %{selected|macro3}) = [button4](! %{selected|macro4})}}
}

with :

macro1 : &{template:default} {{name=@{selected|character_name} macro1}} {{[[d4]]}}
macro2 : &{template:default} {{name=@{selected|character_name} macro2}} {{[[@{selected|attribute}]]}}
macro3 : &{template:default} {{name=@{selected|character_name} macro2}} {{[macro5](! #macro5)}}
macro4 : &{template:default} {{name=@{selected|character_name} macro2}} {{[macro5](! %{selected|macro3})}}

I tried to imagine all kinds of situations. I noticed the (~selected|macro) form doesn't work well with query.

I tried all kind of " }), " replacement, and most of the time, it just give me "action1" in the title bar and that's it.
Is there someone with a solution? or an example of one of his working macro I can inspired myself on ?
By the way, I'm a free user so no API for me... :,(

Thanks a lot

I would suggest trying to use API buttons. API Command buttons do not require API access.  They are simply a method of placing a clickable button(s) in chat that can be used to execute your macros.  They can also be placed within roll templates to help with aesthetics.  Scott C. has a nice breakdown of the feature in this post:https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/3841278/

Thanks, I will look at it after work.

Hoping I can jump in here for some help...

Vince, I tried using the syntax shown in the second post above, and had a problem.
The macro I'm using is similar to this one: [Abilities](! %{selected|Ability-check})

The problem I'm having is that, when I use the MACROS system (Collections) it automatically reverts the and such into whatever those represent.

So, the macro I build works fine when I test it.
But, then, when I save the macro and go again to try it, all I get is EVERY SINGLE ROLL all at once.

Is there a way to make this work properly like this, and if so, how?

Thanks.
-Phnord, aka Barth

I would suggest saving your macro as an ability macro instead of a "global" Collection macro.  I believe this prevents special characters from being mishandled by the editor.  For example, instead using the Collection tab, I use a character(s) as a "macro-mules" to store my favorite macros.(https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/5924364/)  Just use the "Show in Macrobar" option on the macro's settings to have the macros readily available. A macro-mule character is also easy to transport between games(vault and/or transmogrifier).

Heh... I will try that.
Ironically, that's where it was going to end up eventually, but i wanted to test it beforehand!

Thanks!

Yep, it worked exactly right, thank you!

I had to create the macro and place it inside the character sheet as an Ability.

The formatting used was this, as shown in the link above: 
[Abilities](! %{characterName|abilityName}) ^I don't think this will work, because formatting!^ *Edit: Yep, it didn't. Follow the link, folks!*
Many thanks to Scott C for this!

Now all I have to do is convince all 200 of my players to add this to their sheet!

Thanks again


PS: Does it have to be a purple button?

Phnord Prephect said:

Yep, it worked exactly right, thank you!

I had to create the macro and place it inside the character sheet as an Ability.

The formatting used was this, as shown in the link above: 
[Abilities](! %{characterName|abilityName}) ^I don't think this will work, because formatting!^ *Edit: Yep, it didn't. Follow the link, folks!*
Many thanks to Scott C for this!

Now all I have to do is convince all 200 of my players to add this to their sheet!

Thanks again

 I think anyone can reference the "macro-mule" sheet. Just give player's permission to control it... I usually use @{selected|blah blah blah} in my macros when referencing attributes so that they work for any selected token/linked sheet.  If they click "show in macrobar" they'll have the macros at their fingertips.

PS: Does it have to be a purple button?

Roll templates can handle the styling of the buttons.  If your sheet's roll template doesn't have the css written for them, you could create a custom sheet or just use Stylish to change their appearance(albeit, only for the person using Stylish.  No one else sees your Stylish changes). 

To clarify, give your players access and control, but don't let the macro sheet be in their journals. As long as you don't put a token representing it on the map, they won't be able to access the code, though they will be able to use it.

Also, the Ability Command Button syntax when referring to an ability on the sheet is much simpler:

[Button Name](~Ability_Name)

Ok, so I created a new character sheet named "Default"

I set it so players have CONTROL of the token (second drop-down) but not access to it in their JOURNALS (first drop-down.)

I invited two separate players to the game, and asked them to look for the Ability in their Macro Quick Bar.
Neither were able to see it.

However, when copied into their own character sheets, the macro works as expected.

Not sure what I'm missing but at least I have functionality. I can work with this.
Thanks folks.

-Phnord

The macro bar options only work per player, so each player needs to open the abilities tab and check "show in macrobar".  Now the player will see the macros added to their macrobar.  Player's must have control of the macro sheet in order to access the macro on it.  They can access the macro sheet from the sidebar or use shift+click on the macrobar macro to open/edit the ability macros. 

In the image below, Chris is a player and this is from his screen.  My macro character is called "DM".  Although I have nearly all the macros shown on my macrobar as the DM, Chris has only checked a few.

.

Yes, Vince, I know how that part works.

What I'm trying to do is have a Default character sheet that holds macros, but is NOT editable by any players (for security reasons.)

If Chris is able to access the Attributes and Abilities section of the character sheet "GM", he can make changes.
I do not want my players to make any changes.
I have given them the right to use BUT NOT VIEW the "Default" character sheet.

As GM, this works as intended.
For my players, it does not.

Again, my players do not seem to have DIRECT access to any Default-sheet Abilities, even when the 'show' box is checked.
Both you and keithcurtis seem to have an ability to do so that I don't seem to have.

I see what you are asking, now. I have two workarounds for this. One is for each player to create a macro that calls the sheet macro. Silly workaround, but if the sheet macro is complex or has settings you feeling uncomfortable allowing them access to, it will work. If you think they will have difficulty creating a macro, you can create a collections macro that calls the sheet macro, and give every player access to it. They will have to go to their collections tab and click the button to place it on their macro bar, but you keep control of the code and only have to write it once.

Alternatively, you can make a collections macro that calls the sheet macro, but define it as a token macro usable by all players. It will appear whenever they have their token selected and they don't have to have "turn anything on". It's not really a token macro, but is the only way to make a button appear in their interface without them doing anything on their own.

Alright, keithcurtis, this is what I was doing originally.

My system is VERY complex, I was just hoping I could simplify it by a step or two, by giving them direct access to the macros.

Instead, I have to create an ability on each sheet, which then leads to the default sheet's abilities.

This is what I have been doing, and it works, quite well.

I was hoping there was another way.

Anyway, thanks for all your help folks!

-Phnord

PS: "Silly Workaround" seems to be Roll20's motto!

Keith's suggestion is the way i do it, and works pretty well. It's a bit convoluted to set up, but it works.

• Create an Ability on your "default" character sheet; this sheet is Controlled by All players, but not in journals.
• In the macros collection, create a macro that calls that Ability, set that as visible to all players and click the "show in macro bar" button or set as Token Action.

That should set it up so players have access to it. I generally prefer to use the the token action approach, because I use @{selected|} in the macros, and you cant use a token action without having the token selected. It does mean it shows up on npc tokens as well, so the macro bar approach is worth using if that's not needed.

You shouldn't need to create an ability on each sheet - just one universal one on your macros sheet, which you then call from the collections macro. 

Yep GG, that's true, and it's what I would do if it were possible to Transmogrify macros from the collections tab!

Instead, I have to use the "Silly Workaround" of putting them into a character sheet, which can be Transmogrified!

To get back on the subject and try to de-hijack this thread a little...

Vince, you say Roll Templates can change the color of the button. Could you share some information on how to do that?

keithcurtis, you show this which looks much simpler:
[Button Name](~Ability_Name)

Is the tilde (~) the actual syntax?
And I'm guessing it works only on the sheet from which it's called?

I dont understand what you mean. Why do you need to create an ability on each character sheet, as opposed to a single universal one on your macros sheet?

The ability on each individual's character sheet is required to call the single universal one on the default sheet. It can exist nowhere else. Each character (or, granted, player) must have access to SOME pre-created macro, or they have to create their own. By putting this into the default sheet, I only have to make the BIG macro once, and can store and transmogrify it there, as well as only editing it there. But, since it's there and not on each character's sheet, they need access to it. The only way to transmogrify the code to access it, is to make an Ability on each character's sheet, that calls the ability on the default sheet. One cannot transmogrify a macro from the collections tab.

Does that make sense?

Like I said, my system is kind of complicated. I've been working on it for a while, and am in the process of rebuilding it for the 7th or 8th time now.

THIS time, I just wanted to include the little purple buttons.

I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings! I'm sorry! I'll be good!

If anyone REALLY wants to know more about how all this works, PM me, or just join The Color Animal Inn next time I run one. I'll gladly show you what I've got, and ask you to help me improve it.

Y'all have been a great help already, I just really want to stop hijacking this poor guy's (or girl's!) thread.

PM me and we'll discuss non-purple-button related issues, or link me to a forum thread more directly related to it!

-Phnord

Phnord Prephect said:

keithcurtis, you show this which looks much simpler:
[Button Name](~Ability_Name)

Is the tilde (~) the actual syntax?
And I'm guessing it works only on the sheet from which it's called?

It is used when a character ability (sheet macro) calls another character ability on the same sheet.

Also, I showed two ways that a sheet macro can be used by a player that do not require the macro to be on their sheet. Universal on the collections tab with macro bar selected (which does require them to go to their collections tab and likewise click the macro bar button), or as a universal token macro, which doesn't require them to do anything, but will only show up when they have their token selected. Either method can reference your universal sheet macro (ability). If that doesn't do the trick, then I'm probably failing to understand the problem.

Phnord Prephect said:

The ability on each individual's character sheet is required to call the single universal one on the default sheet. It can exist nowhere else.

This isn't the case.
You create the universal ability on a default macros sheet, then you create a macro which calls the ability, in your (the GM) collection. Then you set this macro to be visible to all players, and either click the "show on macro bar" or "show as token action" buttons, and players will have it. You dont need to create an ability on any of the PC sheets to access it.

PS: you havent hurt any one's feelings, don't worry. We are just concerned that we aren't communicating properly, and are earnest in wanting to help you. 

Ok, let's see...

The purple button system WORKS now, thanks to your help (and others').
It could use some refining; I hope to find out how to change it's color, among other features.

It can be used in several formats.

One, directly above, ONLY works when it's calling other Abilities on the SAME sheet as the macro is in.
keithcurtis said:

Phnord Prephect said:

[Button Name](~Ability_Name)
I'm guessing it works only on the sheet from which it's called?

It is used when a character ability (sheet macro) calls another character ability on the same sheet.

Another can be used on a sheet the macro is not in. It contains certain syntax. This syntax includes the ENTER (return?) function called by certain text, and is difficult to show here, but it can be found by following various links above.
For this reason, a macro using this syntax cannot be stored in the global macros collection tab of roll20. The syntax is converted to what it 'means', and THAT gets saved instead, rendering the macro unusable.

Since this second macro cannot be a 'macro' in the traditional sense, it must be saved as an ability.

This ability can be on a given character's sheet, or on a 'default' sheet.

If on a given character's sheet, each sheet must contain an Ability with the full text of the macro, which in my case can be substantial. This text is complex and error-prone, and difficult to edit, even for the creator.
If I make this macro for each individual character, it will take forever.

If, however, I make this macro as an ability on a "Default" character sheet, I only have to make it once.
As a default sheet, I can use the transmogrifier to carry this macro from game to game.
As a macro on the global macro collections tab, I am unable to transmogrify it directly, and have to cut-and-paste each macro made in such a manner. Even if it worked, which it doesn't.

SO
I can make a character sheet, which contains the macros that make the little purple buttons that make using the character sheet easier, and contains each individual one on the sheet as an ability, with full syntax, and customized to that particular character sheet.

OR
I can have each sheet contain an ability that just says "Go find this macro on the Default page, and run that."

If each character has its own, I have to build it, or they do, for each sheet. If, however, each sheet can just use the Default one, then I have a much much smaller amount of work to do for each character.

All this, just to be able to give everyone access to something without risking their breaking it, and to be able to move it from one campaign to another. I'd say it definitely counts as a "Silly Workaround"

G G said:

You create the universal ability on a default macros sheet, then you create a macro which calls the ability, in your (the GM) collection. Then you set this macro to be visible to all players, and either click the "show on macro bar" or "show as token action" buttons, and players will have it. You dont need to create an ability on any of the PC sheets to access it.

Great! Yes, that's exactly what I want to do.
In fact, I want to do several of these. Possibly as many as 10.
How do I quickly and easily copy ALL of these from one game to a newly created game?

keithcurtis said:

Universal on the collections tab with macro bar selected (which does require them to go to their collections tab and likewise click the macro bar button), 

This cannot be Transmogrified, requiring it to be re-created in every new game.

keithcurtis said:

or as a universal token macro, which doesn't require them to do anything, but will only show up when they have their token selected.

A better solution, and the one I'm going to use, for the reason stated earlier (A lot of @{selected|thingybopper} type commands).
However, it has the same limitations: it cannot use the 'advanced' syntax about which I am unable to speak, and it cannot be transmogrified in this form.

Phnord Prephect said:

G G said:

You create the universal ability on a default macros sheet, then you create a macro which calls the ability, in your (the GM) collection. Then you set this macro to be visible to all players, and either click the "show on macro bar" or "show as token action" buttons, and players will have it. You dont need to create an ability on any of the PC sheets to access it.

Great! Yes, that's exactly what I want to do.
In fact, I want to do several of these. Possibly as many as 10.
How do I quickly and easily copy ALL of these from one game to a newly created game?

You make your ten abilities on a Macros character sheet and transmogrify that.
You make ten macros, each of which is a single line and is thus very easy to manually copy. There is a script created by Aaron which can simplify this by copying the macros from the collection tab, but I forget the name of it. I'll hunt it down tomorrow for you. But you dont really need it - these macros will be very simple one-liners (just a call to the Macro Sheet Ability), so its not too hard to manually copy them.

Note: Your response to Keith above saying the macros cant be transmogrified is incorrect. Keith and I have been describing the same process. You have a complex macro as a character sheet ability, which can be transmogged, and a simple macro as a macro, which is copied manually - but easily because it is just one short line.

Phnord Prephect said:

Vince, you say Roll Templates can change the color of the button. Could you share some information on how to do that?

It's not controllable through the roll template directly (well maybe there's a method of changing formatting based on roll template property/flags), regardless it needs to be written into the css based on the html(roll template code) used within the sheet. 
css example;(untested/theorizing)

.sheet-rolltemplate-basic a[href^="~"],
.sheet-rolltemplate-basic a[href^="!"] {
background-color: #000; 
color: #fff;
}

The css above will change the background color and text color for any Ability or API command buttons used within the basic roll template.  

If I'm still not making myself clear, this is the solution I've come up with:

I create a standardized character sheet, which I will make a copy of, and give this copy to each player.
The reason I say I create it, is because I have to include on the sheet a series of Abilities.
These abilities' purpose is to, ultimately, display a set of little purple buttons, the whole point of this entire thread. 
Each of these sets of buttons does something different; there is a SKILLS set, an ATTACKS set, a SAVES set, etc etc.
There are many of these Abilites on each character sheet.
Each one has ONLY the code that says "Hey, go look on the sheet named DEFAULT. It has more information. Use the macro you find there."
These Abilities will appear on the character's token as a token action. IE [SKILLS] [ATTACKS] [SAVES] etc.

I also create a single character sheet named Default.
I use the Edit button to give All Players the right to use the sheet, but DENY them the right to edit, or even view, it.
This sheet has Abilities on it as well. One for every matching ability on the character sheets.
However, THESE macros have the full text needed to create and display the little purple buttons.
It has to be an ability, because the syntax does not work as a normal, global, 'macro' macro in the Collections tab.
Everybody can access these Abilities, because they have their own Ability giving them permission to do so.
Therefore, if I need to change anything, I have only to change it once on the Default character sheet, and it affects every other character identically, because that's how it works.

So the player clicks their token.
The requested set of options is visible, as a token action, which the player then clicks.
Their sheet goes to the Default sheet, and finds the macro.
This macro gives them a set of little purple buttons which use the information on their own character sheet to do various things, such as making an attack roll.

And they can't mess it up or break it by doing anything at all, because the macro isn't on their sheet, it's on mine.
And I can move all of them at once by Transmogrifying the Default character sheet from game to game, and likewise by Transmogrifying the Standardized Player Character sheets.

There does not, as I see it, appear to be any other way to accomplish all the goals I have here.
This, however, works in its current form.
Sort of.




How do I make it, say, a blue button instead of a little purple button?

Phnord Prephect said:

Another can be used on a sheet the macro is not in. It contains certain syntax. This syntax includes the ENTER (return?) function called by certain text, and is difficult to show here, but it can be found by following various links above.
For this reason, a macro using this syntax cannot be stored in the global macros collection tab of roll20. The syntax is converted to what it 'means', and THAT gets saved instead, rendering the macro unusable.

Since this second macro cannot be a 'macro' in the traditional sense, it must be saved as an ability.

This also is a misunderstanding. You can create a macro using these special characters (html entities), and can save it either as a character sheet ability, or a collections macro. The problem is: when you open the macro (not when you save it) on the collections tab, the html entities are replaced, rendering the macro unusable. This doesnt happen with character sheet abilities.

So if you save a macro with those special characters, you can use it fine. But if you ever open that macro to edit it or view it, it will be parsed and stop working. This is why we suggest putting them on the character sheet abilities tab - you know it will keep working whether you open it or not.

Vince said:

Phnord Prephect said:

Vince, you say Roll Templates can change the color of the button. Could you share some information on how to do that?

It's not controllable through the roll template directly (well maybe there's a method of changing formatting based on roll template property/flags), regardless it needs to be written into the css based on the html(roll template code) used within the sheet. 
css example;(untested/theorizing)

.sheet-rolltemplate-basic a[href^="~"],
.sheet-rolltemplate-basic a[href^="!"] {
background-color: #000; 
color: #fff;
}

The css above will change the background color and text color for any Ability or API command buttons used within the basic roll template.  

Ok, so to use this I copy it and paste it where?

Phnord Prephect said:

How do I make it, say, a blue button instead of a little purple button?

You have to use a custom sheet and add some css (based off of the existing roll templates), and your macros that include the pink/purple buttons must be "wrapped" within a roll template. 

Phnord Prephect said:

If I'm still not making myself clear, this is the solution I've come up with:

You are making yourself clear. You just aren't understanding what we are telling you. It is not necessary to put a an ability on each character's sheets. (You can do it that way, but if you later need to change the abilities you are using once the campaign is underway, you'll be back where you started-  having to alter dozens of character sheets. So the way I'm describing is better.)

Before you do anything else, at least try the steps we have suggested. I'll repeat them here and add a testing process. Remember, if you follow this guide, it will save you a LOT of work. 

1. Create one of your complex abilities on your Default character sheet.
2. Create a macro in the collections tab, which just has the text %{Default|whatever the ability name is}. Set this as a Token Ability, visible to all characters.
3. Now, click the token of one of your PCs. You will see a popup at the top left, showing the ability name. Click it, and you'll see the ability works.
4. Now, get a player to log in, or use a second account to log in, and click a token that player controls. The ability will be visible as a token action, and you can click it.

G G said:

if you ever open that macro to edit it or view it, it will be parsed and stop working. 

THERE we go, that's the problem!

And yes, it's quite simple to copy a single line of text with ctrl-c, ctrl-v.
It's another matter entirely to make a new campaign every week, open the macros collection, and make a dozen or more such simple copy-pastes.

It is much easier, as you said, to make a "Default" character sheet, which is why I'm doing that.

This is an issue not directly related to this thread, which I'm trying to avoid. It is the 'silly workaround' of making a character sheet called 'default'.

I'm trying not to argue here, or sound argumentative. We're on the same page, really! I'm just saying, yes, it's easier to do it the other way, in either case.
It's just I didn't realize WHY the macro thing wasn't working. Now I know!
It's also, just still not a solution, because I'm going to have a lot.

Clearly it would work great for someone else, such as the oddly unresponsive OP, perhaps?'


PS: Yes, I totally understand your 4-step process. It works. I do it, have been for ages. It's the fact that it cannot be Transmogrified en-masse that is the issue, not the ability to make it in the first place. Anymore. Y'all solved that already.


PPS: Vince? GG? Y'all wanna, like, Discord or move to a chatroom or something? We're all disjointed here, talking over each other. A little one-on-one might solve all the trouble (if there is any left)?!

Vince said:

Phnord Prephect said:

How do I make it, say, a blue button instead of a little purple button?

You have to use a custom sheet and add some css (based off of the existing roll templates), and your macros that include the pink/purple buttons must be "wrapped" within a roll template. 

Oy... if I were gonna make another custom sheet, I wouldn't even bother with all this! I'd just build it all at the ground level!

Okay, sorry for belabouring the point!

By the way, rather than copying the campaign every week, what you could do is set up a Template Campaign. With all the macros, character templates, etc. you need. Then whenever you start a new campaign, copy this template, rename it, and you're instantly set up. 

Also, you may have missed it, but in one of my posts I mentioned there's a script for copying macros from the collection tab. So it is possible to use the process me and Keith have been suggesting very simply. If you're interested, I'll dig it up for you tomorrow (unless aaron sees this thread first and links to it)

Phnord Prephect said:

PPS: Vince? GG? Y'all wanna, like, Discord or move to a chatroom or something? We're all disjointed here, talking over each other. A little one-on-one might solve all the trouble (if there is any left)?!

That's just the way active forum conversations go :) Live chat with multiple participants is usually even worse! I'm going to bed in a few minutes, it sounds like things are pretty settled now. 

Hehehe... TheAaron probably already has a script for whatever it is I'm trying to do, anyway. I was aware of his multi-macro-copying script (in a general sense) but trying not to use it.

I already have a Template Campaign. That is the problem. It's why I'm rebuilding again, in a Transmogrifiable format this time. Since I'm rebuilding again, I wanted little purple buttons. Actually, I wanted some purple ones, some blues ones, some yellow ones...

Why is having a Template Campaign a problem? Because it's HUGE. Enormous. I'm not kidding folks, it's gigantic.
There are literally 200+ player characters, each with their own huge and detailed character sheet.
There are also perhaps 100+ monsters, NPCs, and tools and such as well, journal entries, rollable tables, etc etc.
Not to mention maps.

And it's more than Roll20 can handle. Literally takes me 5 minutes to load up from start to the point at which I can use it.

So, copying that in its entirety every week is not a viable solution.
Hence the need to have assets which can be used quickly and easily, by Transmogrification.

Yes, I intend to make a simplified base copy, with a secondary 'bestiary' type copy from which to draw assets.

And I wanted buttons.

All I ever wanted was buttons.

*sob*

*sniffle*

Anyway, I've got all the solutions I need at this point, and I know why it wasn't working.
Thank you both for the information and patience!

PS: Sleep well!

PPS: If someone really wanted to help me make a new character sheet from scratch I wouldn't say no! q;}