Dungeon Siege style leveling in D&D.

Has anyone worked out a way for characters to level up based on what they actually use, a la Dungeon Siege 1 or Skyrim? It seems like such an obvious idea to adapt, but I can't seem to find examples of anyone having actually done so. I realize that by its very nature, this idea would likely be complex and "fiddly". But the thought of players coming to a character with nothing more than some basic information, and their ideas really appeals to me.

(I've never played Skyrim, so I'm assuming it works like its prequel Oblivion.) It wouldn't be too hard to implement. You could just give each skill an xp chart (reusing the same one for each skill of course) and give 1 xp each time it is used (perhaps ad a box next to it). I think for most people it would simply be too much bookeeping for a PnP game. These types of things are much easier with a computer. So it might work on roll20. I don't have to API, but you might be able to make macros for each skill and set up a counter. Then base the level of that skill on the amount of times it has been used. If you can modify character sheets with macros, it might be doable. EDIT: I know it would be doable with javascript, but I am unaware of the capabilities of the API.

Yeah, Pendragon and other similarly related BRP games reward "checks" to players using skills when certain criteria are met (I'm thinking things like critical failures or successes, but it's been a while). After the adventure is over or during a lull in the story, you then roll for advancement based on the "checks" you've tallied previously. While a character grows organically this way, it also takes development out of the hands of the player and can reward check-hunting ("I go pick the lock!") over just playing the game. GURPS also uses a system where you track a character's time spent between adventures and see if you accumulate any skill points in professions and skills that a character uses. I've never had a GURPS game where that felt necessary, but hey, it's there.

I don't think DnD being a level based game would do this very well at all but if you looked at skill based games like Savage Worlds or GURPS you could do this pretty easily by having a house rule or two by having players give a justification for taking a new skill or increasing on they already have such as using it since their last advance or roleplaying some training during a down time.

Tree Ant said: (I've never played Skyrim, so I'm assuming it works like Oblivion.) It works very much like Oblivion (or Morrowind, or Daggerfall) in that your individual skills level up and when you've increased a requisite number of skills, you level up in the more familiar fashion. The important difference in Skyrim, the part which makes it more like Dungeon Siege 1, is that you don't "declare" a class beforehand. The skills you practice the most, and the gear you equip define what you are. Rather than defining beforehand, and then being stuck with it. That's the part i think would be so awesome. A group could grow into their roles more organically. Everyone would try doing everything at the start, then gravitate toward the thing they like doing.

I agree with the above poster who suggests using a skill-based system as a base. I am going to use mini-six as an example (since it is a free download and would take about 5 minutes to read if you are unfamiliar with it). Here is a quote from the game: "Any skill may be increased one pip by spending a number of CPs equal to its current number of dice." CP are character points which are the XP of D6. Now for your game. Instead of giving out CP after the session, you can give each skill CP based on the number of times it has been used. You could say each time a skill is used N times, it gains a character point. Once that skill has enough CPs to increase a pip, it is done automatically. For example, let's say I have 2d6+1 in swords (or melee) and we are giving a CP for every 10 times the skill is used. Then once I have used the skill 20 times I will automatically gain a pip and have 2d6+2.

I'll admit I completely whiffed on the "in D&D" portion of my above answer, negating it's usefulness entirely. I guess then it depends on which version of D&D you're referring to. Adapting the check system from Pendragon/BRP above would be pretty easy for 3.X/Pathfinder at least; if we're talking about older editions, then we also have to shoe horn in things like Non Weapon Proficiencies if the game doesn't have them. Another option would be to take a bigger cue from 2E era D&D and directly reward XP for actions that are in character for a class. Thief picking a lock, +25 XP; Cleric healing the sick, +25 XP. That way you emphasize appropriate in-class actions and map that XP gained to increases in ability.

Yeah, that's where I eventually got in my thinking as well. Pinning every action to a class type, and keeping score that way to progress the character. But without even approaching an actual game with that idea, i know i'd never be able to keep that up. Bookkeeping is not my forte. What i am still considering though, is an idea i picked up from a retro-clone style book. Level 0 characters. Their first adventure brings them into contact with magic and healing scrolls, thieve's tools, and basic weapons. Along with a few opportunities to use every one of them. It's not quite what i imagined, but might still be better than the standard declaration of class. Another idea might be defaulting every new character into multi-classing the four main types with flat xp costs for leveling. That way they only progress in the areas they want to. (I realize that they could already do this. But sometimes the only reason people don't use a good idea is because it's not presented to them.) Of course there would be obvious problems there as well. Parties in which everyone has access to even the most basic healing spell might decide they don't ever need a healer (and might be correct). I appreciate all the different system suggestions. I've only heard of a few of them before. The reason D&D was specified is because that's the system I know well enough to discuss intelligibly. I actually picked up a copy of the D6 books (fantasy, adventure, space, etc.) but have been massively uninterested in them from what I've read. Now I can go through and reread through the filter of this idea. Maybe it'll look better that way.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting D6, just using that as an example. Any skill-based system could be modified that way. You could modify D&D 3.5/Pathfinder to be a skill-based system, and then gain levels based on skill improvements. But doing that without making a wonky system will be a lot more difficult. To reduce bookkeeping maybe look at modifying Warrior Rogue and Mage. There are only three attributes, so players only need to keep track of how many times they do something warrior-like, rogue-like or mage-like.

GURPS would probably fit the requirements without to much work.

If you want a system that allows you to improve based on what you actually use, there are plenty of games out there that do that. They are all skill-based systems though. With a level system like D&D, trying to incorporate that will lead to some very wonky effects. For instance, the most important activities of most classes (excluding rogue and bard) don't use skills (wizards and their magic, warriors hitting things). The earliest editions of chivalry & Sorcery did actually work this way: each class had specific activities they could be rewarded for (thieves and assassins gained XP for doing rogue-ish things, magicians gained experience for learning spells and making magic items but not for killing monsters, etc). In my experience it led to very uneven advancement for players in the game. Roigues were frorced to be doing underhanded things ALL the TIME; mages had no real reason to go on adventure unles sthe GM gave them one (needing a particular rare stone for their alchemy)- it took time away from the stuff that actually gave them XP, etc. If there was a set of common activities that everyone gained XP for, and then some more activities tailored to each class, it could probably have been fixed.