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Why did the some Members of Roll20 commit Sexism and Racism Against DnD players because of their sex and skin color?

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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=395&amp;v=VK-H0dDeG38" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=395&amp;v=VK-H0dDeG38</a> ^ Explained in this video. Just why. Why does Roll 20 hate white men? Why attack a majority of your user base? I would prefer you explain yourselves.
Lmfao. That video is so cringe inducing. Go back to your Red Pill forums.
I think its a perfectly viable thing they should really explain.
Gonna be a loooot of bad publicity here in the next while as grievances are aired...but I'll take a moment to play devil's advocate. Nolan has been proven to be unprofessional at times, as certain Reddit incidents will prove.&nbsp; But 'We don't need another 5 White guys' isn't evidence of hatred, just...flippant dismissal.&nbsp; He could mean "We need some folks with gimmicks, not just another D&amp;D group, we have 6,000 of those."&nbsp; And to be fair, there's probably a lot of Youtubers that try to go 'Hey, I play D&amp;D on Roll20, can I be an affiliate?'&nbsp; and it may have been his sixth one that day and he made a bad call.&nbsp; I'm making some assumptions here, as a devil's advocate is wont to do. So...a better question would be 'Is Nolan so unprofessional in all his communications with customers and potential affiliates?'&nbsp; I would assume not, because someone had to get a partnership with Hasbro for D&amp;D.&nbsp; But there's several stories of hamfisted moderation, unproffesional customer interactions, and of course, his recent Reddit kerfuffle. It would be nice to have an actual reason they were dismissed out of hand, and perhaps an admission from Nolan that he needs to take a step back for a while, get a nice, zen vacation, and come back with a clear soul so he can see where he can improve on customer relations. (I bet this gets locked instead.)
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I mean, honestly, the easy answer to this is to point out that the video was made by an attention seeking habitual liar and shit stirrer that the majority of the community dislikes. He would make fake profiles to attack people among other things. So not sure why we should care about his opinion.
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Phil said: I mean, honestly, the easy answer to this is to point out that the video was made by an attention seeking habitual liar and shit stirrer that the majority of the community dislikes. He would make fake profiles to attack people among other things. So not sure why we should care about his opinion. Isn't that the genetic fallacy though? &nbsp; edit: It's not. It may be association fallacy? end edit&nbsp; Saying we should consider his words suspect is reasonable, saying his words don't matter because people don't like him is not. And moreover, the idea is not that his opinion of roll20 is bad (he even says it isn't a bad service), but that the supposed fact he stated is, and people are forming their opinions from that. Whether it's true or not, I couldn't say (though taking 20 appeared to corroborate it).
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"saying his words don't matter because people don't like him is not" Except what I'm saying is the words of a habitual liar and confirmed shit stirrer who jumps into controversies for views and attention don't matter, and to suggest otherwise is idiotic. We're past the point of his words simply being suspect. Simple as. It's the boy who cried wolf, except I highly doubt this time he has actually spotted a wolf. But you go ahead and ignore the context and the person behind it. I'm sure it'll work out for ya.
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He's literally just saying why he's no longer using Roll20 as a platform. You can take it like it is. Phil said: "saying his words don't matter because people don't like him is not" Except what I'm saying is the words of a habitual liar and confirmed shit stirrer who jumps into controversies for views and attention don't matter, and to suggest otherwise is idiotic. We're past the point of his words simply being suspect. Simple as. It's the boy who cried wolf, except I highly doubt this time he has actually spotted a wolf. But you go ahead and ignore the context and the person behind it. I'm sure it'll work out for ya.
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I'm about as far removed from the MRA Redpill GamerGate world as you can get, and even I seriously don't get NolanT's response to "Save or Dice". I mean, really? "We don't need another five white guys"? That is not how diversity works. It's not about excluding white men. It's about taking time to consider whether or not you've made an effort to include people who aren't white men. If your reasoning was that you only had enough promotional resources to focus on one or two sponsorships of this nature and you wanted to save it for a more diverse group of players, that's your call to make, but if that's your call, you respond by saying "We appreciate the request and while we're excited to see your project, we respectfully decline the opportunity to sponsor." Not by saying "We don't need another five white guys." The DawnforgedCast guys seem like good people. Nothing they have said or done has ever come off as sexist or exclusionary. It feels like NolanT took one look at the cast composition and just made all kinds of assumptions about the character of the players and the show without actually looking into it, and then rudely dismissed it like it was a group of frat boys wanting to make a D&amp;D show about ale and whores. For a man who said just a few days ago that "We're passionate about the program; we just aren't jerks about it," you have clearly been behaving like a massive &nbsp;jerk, and I suspect that these two instances are just the tip of the iceberg. During the Reddit thing, all I wanted was to see Roll20 leave the subreddit to the fans. I'm very much glad they chose to do that. But now? Now NolanT has some serious explaining to do. Clearly, that was not his first PR disaster. Clearly, he needs to be as far removed from facing the public as possible, and he needs to apologize, sincerely and profusely, for being a jerk, as well as for giving a blatantly racist and sexist reason for denying the sponsorship of a reputable group of professional nerds. And yes, this reaches the bar of "racism" and "sexism" for me. This was a person in a position of power systematically denying privilege based solely on a philosophy that people of a specific race and sex are inherently unsuitable for that privilege, or at the very least, inherently less deserving than people of a different race or sex. He gave no reason other than race and sex in denying the sponsorship. That's pretty much cut-and-dry, and I'm not the kind of guy that goes around bleating about "white genocide". I hate those guys. But yeah. This is where the line is and NolanT definitely &nbsp;crossed it. He either needs to give an apology good enough for the community to accept, or he needs to step down from his position at Roll20. He only seems capable of burning bridges, not building them. And as I said during the previous debacle, it's not so much that I'm threatening to take my business elsewhere if he doesn't. I have a campaign that I've put a great deal of work into on this platform and I intend to see it through. But once that's done, if nobody else is willing to use this platform with me for my next campaign, then I'll have no choice but to end my subscription, because I can't afford to spend money on a service I'm not using. Not a threat, just reality. I want to keep using Roll20, but if my friends say they'd rather use Fantasy Grounds because it's not co-founded by a complete jerk, I won't really have much to say to convince them otherwise, because NolanT's behavior has been very much indefensible. He either needs to salvage his image immediately with an unequivocal and sincere apology where he admits he acted flippantly, jumped to incorrect conclusions about the character of the people he interacted with, and behaved very inappropriately as a result, or simply sever his ties to this service entirely so he doesn't take it down with him. It's the only way I see Roll20 surviving this, and that's really all I care about at this point. I just don't want everybody's hard work be undone because of one person's inability to keep his foot out of his mouth. NolanT, if you're reading this, know that I don't necessarily think you're a bad person, but you are unarguably bad at interacting with people, and you are actively hurting something you presumably built. You are actively hurting the other people who helped you build it. You don't just owe it to your customers to make things right, you owe it to your own company to make things right, because there's a lot more viable competition out there than there was five years ago, and it's a lot easier for people to switch today than it used to be. You have to fight to keep people's business. You can't just presume consumer loyalty. It has to be earned. Apologize. Reach deep inside yourself and give the best damn apology of your life and hope beyond hope that it's good enough for you to keep your job without Roll20 suffering more as a result. And if it isn't good enough, just step aside. It'll only get worse if you don't. EDIT: And just for the sake of clarity since some people have questioned the credibility of DawnforgedCast, Cody from Taking20 and Jim Davis of WebDM corroborate the claim, and it seems consistent with the behavior we've seen of NolanT.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK-H0dDeG38&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;a=" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK-H0dDeG38&amp;feature=youtu.be&amp;a=</a> Also, if you read the comments section, the official Save or Dice youtube channel reached out and said: The statements from Andrew are correct. They also deleted his membership for no reason at one point due to poor moderation. Our citations are justified.
To be fair, I have only seen Cody from Taking20 corroborate the claim. According to Cody, Jim Davis was present &nbsp;in the meeting, but he has not mentioned anything yet, at least to my knowledge.&nbsp; However, even one person's corroboration to what I assume was an "in-person" meeting (over-the-phone, Skype, etc.), which is why we haven't seen screenshots perhaps, is enough for me to want more information from both Roll20 as well as Taking20's proposed followup.
Correct. But if this is more than just corroboration from personal encounters Save or Dice has had with Nolan that the player base has, then I am extremely skeptical that it would actually be not true because it sounds exactly what Nolan would do. Nolan has ignored grievances for so long and his games don’t exactly say: “White, Male players wanted.” If you read his twitter feed. But if you’re going to exercise several inclusivity rules such as advertising what kind of players you would like in your games. Which the most common for me would be: “Looking for Female players.” I think everyone, including the Lead Developer should follow these examples and Codes of Conduct that he, as well as the moderation team has set for all of us. Instead of outright saying, as to what the Save or Dice team is currently agreeing with Andrew,&nbsp; &nbsp;“We don’t need 5 white guys.”
Ariel ♡ said: Instead of outright saying, as to what the Save or Dice team is currently agreeing with Andrew,&nbsp;&nbsp;“We don’t need 5 white guys.” I still just want to point out that, as of right now, only &nbsp;Cody is agreeing with Andrew. He used Taking20's &nbsp;account to agree, not Save or Dice's account. To me this shows that he has no problem putting his voice into the discussion, but he is being cautious about speaking for other members of Save or Dice.
I think if Nolan T. had simply said "We are looking for a more diverse group to represent Roll20 at this time", this wouldn't have been brought up now. It's the lack of tact that makes it a problem. Save or Dice has a rotating group of contributors and they are not all "white dudes", they just happened to be at that time. Roll20 lost an opportunity but Save or Dice didn't make a big deal of it at the time. I do agree that Andrew is being opportunistic with the timing of this video, but I can't think of a better time to do it.
Good post Patrick.
I didn't want to reply to this thread to avoid feeding the troll but, I'm with Phil. This is utter nonsense. The mods should lock this thread. If I had to the power to down vote it I would. (And if you're wondering, I'm an middle-aged white guy.)
Moving off Roll20. Nolan's response was absolutely insane.
Alan said: Moving off Roll20. Nolan's response was absolutely insane. I will do the same. After&nbsp;3 years of being a plus member, I will move to FG with my players. As a paying customer, I expect some&nbsp;professionalism from a co-founder. The man is on a power trip and I&nbsp;feel sorry for the Roll20 staff. Must suck to work really hard on a product to make the community grow when you at the same time have a boss that shouldn't&nbsp;be near a social platform.&nbsp;
Truly shameful. Racism and sexism by these kinds of people is rampant, and they are too blind to see it because they have justified it in their minds. I have been on this site for years, played a 1-20 3.5 epic of a classic setting, all homebrewed, maps, tokens, all self made, hours of story writing for my players and custom quests. I am passionate about table top, and have voiced my love of roll20 ever since i started using it to countless people, paying for subsciption on and off throughout my time here. Now i see Nolan has walked down the path so many business' have that brought them to ruin, by attacking their base, solely for them being "white" and "men". Spitting out the words at times as if it was a venomous insult. Blocking it out in their heads they are doing some wrong by targeting people based on sex and race, letting their feeling get in the way of practical and sound business dissensions as long as it makes them feel good in that moment. I am part of a table top discord group with well over a 100 members, it is through them i learned about this, and the chats are filled with people at a loss of what to do, many opt for cancelling their sub's, i was planning on another 1-20 epic using roll20, getting a pro account and setting up triggers, but now i see no reason to bother. Whats next? locking threads? deleting and banning posts and posters like all the others for the crime of having dangly parts between their legs? What sin and wrong have I committed to warrant such hatred? Was it some probable deed of my great great grandfather that somehow makes me deserving of your unjust judgment? I will do you the favor mods, I'm white, and i'm male, i'll just leave and save you the button clicks, i know when i'm not wanted. One last suggestion though: on the front page, be sure to put "No white males allowed" in large bold text to really send home that progressive message, you don't want to accidentally let people think you are being inclusive, i'm sure people will appreciate it. You won't have that "too many white men" problem after that, i assure you.
I've had to think long about this. Been a paying member for years - even keeping my account after taking really long breaks from the game. However, I have to imagine what would and should happen if I said anything like this at an actual gaming table. Say I'm at a game day and someone comes up and asks me to run a game for them. If I'm tired, busy, waiting for another game, have another group, etc. I'd just say "Sorry, X". It would never occur to me to say "We don't need five more [race] [gender]". In 35 years of gaming, I've never heard anyone else say it. In 35 years, I've never had anyone say something like that and I've met thousands of people through gaming. If someone said something like that, I wouldn't game with them. If a store said something like that, I wouldn't shop there. Likewise, I have to do that same with Roll20. I'm not hearing any apology. It's also just insanely bad business. Even if you can separate playing on Roll20 from how it treats others... you still have to think what an insane business move this is -- laying racist comments, against a demographic which is the vast majority of your customers, in front of people who have the largest gaming followings and YouTube platforms out there, not apologizing, etc. I'll cancel my subscription after pulling down any content.
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If he isn't interested in 5 more white guys, then as a white guy, I guess I should stop forking over my money.
Anyone seen a rebuttal, a denial or an apology from Nolan T?
Creators of D&amp;D (from MMSA on): Gary Gygax, Jeff Perren, Dave Arneson, David Wesely, John Snider ... and so many others ... (all, mostly, white guys) Gygax's Greyhawk group : himself, Ernie Gygax, Don Kaye, Rob Kuntz, Terry Kuntz 5 white guys.&nbsp; Started D&amp;D.&nbsp; Not going to state any opinion that would end all the campaigns I play on here, I just wanted to point out a simple fact that - if not for 5 white guys playing D&amp;D, there wouldn't be a market partner to work with.&nbsp; Everyone has a value, even if there are those that are blind to it. For me, this continues to serve my native grandparents' lesson: "We are given two ears, two eyes, and one mouth for a reason."&nbsp; Either to see and listen twice as much, or to speak half as much.
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