CWOD V20 Anniversary Character Sheet Update! Please Back up your character sheets! Major overhaul coming Dec 18th!

Hey folks, Rin Vindor here just letting you know that if you're playing any Vampire the Masquerade V20 games using the V20 character sheets, a new over haul is on the way that will vastly improve and expand the sheets. Its 99.99% thanks to Havoc who made the original layout I've since tweaked and removed API built in features so that it will work for free users and the like who aren't comfortable with scripts. I've also added some more sections and in the coming months tweak this further with more features though this won't require further backups, its just so much was changed and added that this one time backup is going to be required. I thank all of you for your patience and I hope you love the new sheet! For those who want to see and track the update: <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/4475" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/4475</a>

I tried the new sheet, and it is extensive, thank you for putting this together. the dice roll function does not seem to work. unless am doing something wrong.

I have also done some testing, and found that the Dice Roll functions do not entirely work. Dice Pools Willpower works just fine. However, the others... 1 0 0 6 0 0 1 Conscience 5 0 0 6 0 0 1 Self-Control 5 0 0 6 0 0 1 Courage Main Dice Pools Attribute shows as () blank, Ability and Discipline work fine, Modifiers field on the roll page is redundant as it asks for a modifier during the query, and wound penalty auto-applies fine. Initiative SyntaxError: Expected [0-9] but "+" found. Combat Dice Pools As with Main above. Custom Rolls fine, still applies wound penalties, assumes all pool mods are accounted for. Other than the rolling functionality, have to say I love the detail work! A lot to take in, and a bit overwhelming coming from the previous simplicity, but none of the extra fields are required, so I say A+.

Thanks for the reports guys! I've fixed the issues, I apologize in advance as I had no issues with the sheet I was testing on via the test campaign but found on new sheets I had the same issues. I've gotten the fixes ready and we'll have it out for the Roll20 team to upload the fixes for next week! If you guys have any suggestions please don't hesitate to tell me here or ask me or tell me via my Discord [ Discord link removed by Moderator ]

Discord links are not allowed on the Roll20 site except on your game details page and its attached Game Discussion, and in PMs.

thank you. I look forward to checking it out

I personally have used the sheet for over 4 years and preffered the previous sheet. I do not like tabs and honestly wish you didn't add them, they clutter sheets and usually cause issues.

Lethan said: I do not like tabs and honestly wish you didn't add them, they clutter sheets and usually cause issues. As some one who uses tabs in various sheets, what is your opposition to them?&nbsp; The idea behind tabs is to allows more areas to input data without cluttering the rest of the sheet.&nbsp; If tabs not not providing this service, I will need to adjust how I make sheets.&nbsp;

They add script requirements and generally split up a sheet all over the place, if I personally, want to do that kind of thing I make use of handouts. The only issue I personally was having with the old sheet was the lack of additional space and the lack of it remaining correctly formatted ( both of these issues fixed ). Tabbing left right and center is honestly aggrivating to me as a person and for it to change suddenly after 4 years is just plain vexing.

Hi Rin Vindor, I've rounded up a few strays from elsewhere to add to your thread. Thanks for your hard work in improving the sheet.&nbsp; Morgan A. &nbsp;said: I'm also having this issue! It just has an empty set of parenthesis where the number should be. When the attribute is set to "none", it displays the appropriate 0 properly, however! nananyan &nbsp;said: Hello,&nbsp; since last modification, the sheet aren't counting allright the dice pools. Even I set all things right, rolling isn't counting the atribute pool.

Hey folks, I've finished the editing of the sheet for the update, unfortunately my computer was fried and being a minimum wage retail worker I'll probably need a year or two before I can do more work. I'll be able to salvage the work from the drive thankfully but after that I'll be ending my Roll20 Pro status and leaving the community because I've no possible way to fix this. I hope everyone enjoys the update that fixes the bugs, sorry for the hassle it's caused. As for folks who don't like the tabs my suggestion is to use the primary tab and dice tab and nothing else. The other tabs just help detail things more effectively.

Rin Vindor said: Hey folks, I've finished the editing of the sheet for the update, unfortunately my computer was fried and being a minimum wage retail worker I'll probably need a year or two before I can do more work. I'll be able to salvage the work from the drive thankfully but after that I'll be ending my Roll20 Pro status and leaving the community because I've no possible way to fix this. Hope you all the best and farwell for now.&nbsp; &nbsp; On a related note: There is a suggested PR to revert the changes as there seems to exist some problems, but but I think the pros and cons should be discussed.

Hey everyone, I'm the author of the PR to revert these changes that was linked by Andreas above. Here are my arguments that I think are more practical ones: There are some formatting issues with the altered sheet that remain unresolved (Referring to comments earlier in this thread) There are some bugs with the altered sheet that remain unresolved&nbsp;(Referring to comments earlier in this thread) The author of these changes is no longer able to help resolve either of the two above points, and apparently won't be able to any time soon. See his post above (from December 22). In my opinion those issues would be enough to justify reverting the changes on their own, but on top of that I have two more points that some may find more contentious but I feel quite strongly about: Making a sudden, massive overhaul to an existing template that is being actively used in games should be considered unacceptable and should not have been merged in the first place, particularly when no option is available for ongoing games to decide whether or not to opt into an update that could potentially break existing characters. In light of the previous point, the changes should have been implemented in the form of a new sheet instead of replacing an existing one. You could argue that the author posted here to notify users that they would need to back up their existing character data, but I don't feel that this was an adequate solution. Using my own game as an example, I had no idea that these changes were occurring until one of my players informed me today that the appearance of the sheets had changed and asked why.

The old sheet as well had some issues. Always did have trouble with the virtue rolling, ended up using empty pools and mods or just manually entering in the roll. The new thing has a much better information tracker, given all the different pages, and specified places for bonds, boons, discipline descriptions.. much better than my players having a half dozen handouts to juggle, or needing to tab out entirely to check on information. For now, enter the attribute value as a mod to the roll, plus or minus any actual mod. Isn't much work, and if rolls are all that we need to deal with for a prolonged period, I say the informational aspect of the new sheet is worth keeping it around for.

SO basically we have&nbsp; broken sheet and no fixes incoming for the dice roll features?

I will see what I can do

I apologize for any issues, the holidays have kept me busy, the good news is my computer is not completely shot, I have the fixes on my drive ready to be uploaded, I'm just waiting for my replacement pump (previous one died). Again sorry for any issues this has caused anyone but fixes are coming as well as some improvements in the next month or so all of which won't be anything like the initial update, which was more or less necessary for adding any form of options.

Hello! I wanted to say I love the new character sheet and I hope the bugs can be fixed soon. I really appreciate the work Rin has put into it (I also hope your troubles can be resolved soon). What I'm wondering about is: would it be possible (and not too much of a hassle) to make both the old and the new version available? That way those prefering the old sheet can still use it - and those prefering the new one can use it until the issues are fixed.

Patrick V. said: Making a sudden, massive overhaul to an existing template that is being actively used in games should be considered unacceptable and should not have been merged in the first place, particularly when no option is available for ongoing games to decide whether or not to opt into an update that could potentially break existing characters. In light of the previous point, the changes should have been implemented in the form of a new sheet instead of replacing an existing one. I have no opinion or knowledge of whether the changes are good or bad, but the complication with the above is that roll20 doesnt allow adding new sheets for games that already exist.&nbsp; This means that the character sheet system is fragile: if the person most active on updating a sheet wants a drastic new design, that's probably going to happen, and most users don't really have a voice to stop that.&nbsp; I agree very strongly that existing sheets being widely used shouldn't be overhauled without good reason, but sadly there's no good way to poll users to get reactions before its done.&nbsp;

GiGs wrote : I agree very strongly that existing sheets being widely used shouldn't be overhauled without good reason, but sadly there's no good way to poll users to get reactions before its done.&nbsp; Yeah that's the reason I've kept the sheet I've been improving lookong the same, and only adding more functionalities or options as not to ruffle feather like I did with my early mistakes. Within the last year, IIRC the Godbound sheet was feplaced by a new sheet that was just crazy better looking and well made, and there where like close to 10 Godbound players telling to switch to the new sheet, and it was eventually done, so it can work to some degree. Still, in that sense it wasnt democratic or well polled, but considering how few people react yo any given post on the forums, the amount of unique users in that case seemed as a good indication of the will of the masses. It seemed to me only the most popular games like D&amp;D5E or PF could get any more people involved in a similar discussion.

Patrick V. said: Hey everyone, I'm the author of the PR to revert these changes that was linked by Andreas above. Here are my arguments that I think are more practical ones: There are some formatting issues with the altered sheet that remain unresolved (Referring to comments earlier in this thread) There are some bugs with the altered sheet that remain unresolved&nbsp;(Referring to comments earlier in this thread) The author of these changes is no longer able to help resolve either of the two above points, and apparently won't be able to any time soon. See his post above (from December 22). In my opinion those issues would be enough to justify reverting the changes on their own, but on top of that I have two more points that some may find more contentious but I feel quite strongly about: Making a sudden, massive overhaul to an existing template that is being actively used in games should be considered unacceptable and should not have been merged in the first place, particularly when no option is available for ongoing games to decide whether or not to opt into an update that could potentially break existing characters. In light of the previous point, the changes should have been implemented in the form of a new sheet instead of replacing an existing one. You could argue that the author posted here to notify users that they would need to back up their existing character data, but I don't feel that this was an adequate solution. Using my own game as an example, I had no idea that these changes were occurring until one of my players informed me today that the appearance of the sheets had changed and asked why. I fully agree with Patrick. We have been hit by the upgrade with no heads-up. We have been able to continue playing, but the bugs do not justify the change. I appreciate all the work done by Rin Vindor but if possible we would love to have the changes reverted until the bugs are ironed out. I am sure the update will be great but it needs to work first. Thanks,

Andreas J. said: GiGs wrote : I agree very strongly that existing sheets being widely used shouldn't be overhauled without good reason, but sadly there's no good way to poll users to get reactions before its done.&nbsp; Yeah that's the reason I've kept the sheet I've been improving lookong the same, and only adding more functionalities or options as not to ruffle feather like I did with my early mistakes. One way to handle it would be to add a message to the top or bottom of the character sheet, something like, "Sheet upgrade imminent: feedback requested" and a button to lick to paste a join link in chat for a campaign with a custom sheet of the new version you'd like to use, for people to check out.&nbsp; This would be seen by everyone using the sheet regularly, so people who visit the campaign could be encouraged to leave feedback in that campaigns forum (set up a couple of threads ahead of time for people to post positive and negative comments).&nbsp; You'd have to be careful not to make it too intrusive (no popups covering the character sheet till you click to get rid of it), while still being noticeable. But it could be a way to handle this issue. I wouldnt recommend something like this for standard upgrades and incremental changes-&nbsp; only ones which drastically change the layout and fucntion of a sheet.

Greetings! &nbsp; &nbsp; I approved &amp; merged Rin's changes after encouraging them to make this post to inform users that it was coming. Character sheets are a collaborative community project and we do our best to mediate impactful changes to users yet occasionally they can be necessary for a sheet author to incorporate significant improvements. I have read through the comments and concerns provided in this post &amp; on the GitHub request. I brought this thread to the attention of one of my higher ups and we're going to investigate ways other collaborative projects like ours handle these scenarios so we can improve our process going forward. For now, I'm going to leave the Pull Request to revert the changes open but unmerged. Rin Vindor has replied to this thread with intentions to push a future update so I want to give them a chance to do that. Gracias, Cassie

Hey folks I wanted to touch base again with a status update. My replacement pump is about another week out, I'm gonna try and hit a local store for a part to pull the code for the sheets today and upload the code. Ironic that I had the fix and was doubling over it and then had this pump die. Anyway again I am incredibly sorry for any inconveniences it gave you guys. It should be resolved super soon. Ideally I'll have the push in about 12 ish hours for the update.

Ok folks I got the gear needed to pull the data from my SSD, Here is the Pull Request so you can all see and be reassured that I'm able to actively resolve issues though this should &nbsp;fix the remaining issues. I'll be monitoring it further though any other issues should at most just be minor and less dreadful than the Dice section's issue. Thanks for those who have been understanding, its been kinda hard trying to run my store at work and also try and find the time to get to a FedEx with my old system hence I just sprung for a external dock for my SSD so you all wouldn't have to wait longer. Let me know when its live if you notice any issues or have requests.

I just want to say that I appreciate all the work you've put into this sheet! It's beautiful and allows my game to remain (mostly) uncluttered with all of its nice little tabs! Thank you so much!

I agree that the new sheet is very nice, but it seems that the new pull hasn´t been accepted yet. I am hoping that the fix goes through before the weekend :)

If history is to show, they seem to do pulls on Thursdays though I could be a 100000% wrong :d I'm also super glad to hear most of you guys are enjoying the extra space. The update fixes the bugs (finally I know) and it'll move a few things to new tabs, Blood Magic is getting its own tab, everything you've all added won't be deleted this time so no frets this time.

I will also continue to update and tweak the sheet in the coming months to better provide features folks ask for.

And so we see I was wrong, seems the update is live!

Already noticed a bug that I'm gonna be working on involving adding new dice rolls between Main Dice Pool and Combat Dice Pools. Seems adding one makes the other create one. For now I'd say just use Combat Dice Pools and Custom Dice Pools. Should have this fixed today.

Rin Vindor said: If history is to show, they seem to do pulls on Thursdays though I could be a 100000% wrong :d You are only 3000% wrong on this :) It historicly(alt least the last 12 months) been weekly on Tuesdays but there haven't been an offical word on this. Some time ago this statment been added to the Character Sheet Forum sticky : Pull requests are processed weekly and should be&nbsp; submitted no later than 6am PST Mondays , roughly 13:00-14:00 UTC. Earlier submissions are encouraged to allow for peer review from other contributors. They have been checked on Mondays for minor errors and adressing eventual issue, leaving time until Tuesday that those gets merged and only hours later have the changes online. At times to pre-approved pull requests are merged on monday evenings but I don't know if those have gone live before Tuesdays.

Haha thanks for that Andreas! Well I've submitted another pull for the repeating dice issue. Don't want anyone to think I'm not keeping a closer eye on things now that the holidays don't have my soul in the clutches of retail &lt;3 <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/4603" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/4603</a>

I created a new game using the new sheet. and as of yesterday, the die roller is still not working. am i doing something wrong? also a little thing but the spacing between the dots and the entry field is kind of tight. thanks again for the work on the sheet

I'm getting a really odd issue when i try to do any dice rolls from the "dice" tab now. It was working just yesterday. Every time we roll an attribute, ability, discipline, or a combination, we get a message similar to "No attribute was found for @{Norris|abilityRoll}". It repeats this message but the "ability" changes to whatever you were attempting to roll.

Bilo said: I created a new game using the new sheet. and as of yesterday, the die roller is still not working. am i doing something wrong? also a little thing but the spacing between the dots and the entry field is kind of tight. thanks again for the work on the sheet I'll take a look at the die roller but I'm not having issues nor are any players in a new game we're running, but I'll take your word on it and triple check things. The closeness is a css issue and I'm still working on it as I don't care for how close it is either :P so bear with me on that haha. Morgan A. said: I'm getting a really odd issue when i try to do any dice rolls from the "dice" tab now. It was working just yesterday. Every time we roll an attribute, ability, discipline, or a combination, we get a message similar to "No attribute was found for @{Norris|abilityRoll}". It repeats this message but the "ability" changes to whatever you were attempting to roll. That I'm not exactly sure about, I did notice that I was having issues with Initiative working even when properly having a token selected but I'll check the attributes as well and see what is going on there. The other issue I have noted is that in the Bond &amp; Boon section Viniculum ratings seem to jump to 10 when you go to a new tab.

I must be doing something wrong then maybe an ID10T error&nbsp; if i copy an existing game and choose those sheets it should work right?

It should work, I tested things again on a new session and I'm still doing fine. Drop me a personal message and we'll chat via Discord maybe with screen share I can pin point the issue better :/

Hi Rin the self control courage etc seem to work, I no longer see the generic dice roller, was it removed? any chance to have it back :) going to experiment with this a bit more thanks :)

I may add the generic roller back but it kinda felt useless with all the other rollers that give you even more options, it's why I trashed it and added a temp willpower and a permanent willpower roller instead. I'll ask some other folks and if enough people want it I suppose I can squeeze it in there 😁

thank you&nbsp; and got your PM btw not sure when is your availability and such

Okay, so my wife tested this a bit and the dice work when you use the combat dice pool but not the main dice pool.

Hello Rin! Thanks for the update. The sheet worked very well two weeks ago, but during the game this week we also found the problem as the other user related to the attribute: No attribute was found for @{Character1|rollTitle} Thanks

I am getting closer to finishing the issues present :) thanks for reporting things you all have noticed!

Great news folks, I'm pretty sure I've squashed the remaining bugs from the Main Dice Pool issues (which was a misnamed attribute issue) to the Vinculum rating constantly jumping to 10 if you set it to 3 or higher. When you beautiful people discover something new that is wrong or have an idea I'm moving this over to this new post since this one has outlived its use :) <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/7218217/cwod-v20-official-bugs-and-feedback/?pageforid=7218217#post-7218217" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/7218217/cwod-v20-official-bugs-and-feedback/?pageforid=7218217#post-7218217</a>