Allow users to decide to broadcast video/voice BEFORE joining a game

Currently, when joining a new game, a user must be in-game before deciding whether to use their webcam and mic. This might not be an issue for an established group, but can be a privacy issue for first time use. I would suggest that when a user joins a game for the first time, they be asked if they want to receive and broadcast video/audio. It should be asked before the connection is ever made. Asking a user if they want to see and be seen after  they are already seeing and being seen is counter-intuitive and kind of pointless. Ask before . Once a user is in game, they can decide whether they want to change the settings.

+1, but have no votes left atm

Agreed. Honestly needs to just be off by default, and you opt-in to use them rather than opt-out. 

Yes please!

I can't believe that it's been years and they still have things set up like this. The default just needs to be not having a broadcast. 

+1

Yeah this would be great idea, I've long wanted the default to be to disable broadcast, and especially with the amount of test campaign I create and share left and right. It's always the first things I go and change in any campaign I'm not actually playing in, so that if I later share it publicly or with some group of people it wouldn't broadcast. Hmm now I'll have to unvote something so this can get a vote :D

I also would like the default be set to none and then let the game's creator go in and set it to what they want.

I sometimes get an invite to help someone fix their game. The first thing I do when joining is place my thumb over my webcam until I can get to the settings tab and toggle that switch. I know I can set this site-wide for my browser, but there are other places on the site where I do want the webcam, and setting it site-wide kind of negates the purpose of having the setting on the setting tab. Also, I have players who have run into the issue of the browser not releasing their webcam properly afterward.

I think dan put it really nicely up in the responses. Each user should need to choose to opt-in if they want, not have to choose to opt-out when they dont want to broadcast video, and that shold go for voice aswell in my opinion.

I agree. Video/audio should be an opt in thing. 

+1

+1

Please do that. Is it so hard to change the defaults, there?

Even after Kansas law (which is the one that counts), it is a breach of privacy " using [...] inside a private place any device for hearing, recording, amplifying or broadcasting sounds originating in such place, which sounds would not ordinarily be audible or comprehensible without the use of such device, without the consent of the person or persons entitled to privacy therein".  So, at least the sound needs to be opt-in by default, and not opt-out by default. As soon as you transmit the sound without consent, like in the first few seconds, Roll20 has breached your privacy.

While I agree with the intent (it should be opt-in, to secure privacy), I'm not sure if a legal case like that would succeed. One could argue that by logging into a service which advertises videoconferencing as a feature, you have the expectation that your image may be being transmitted. That being said, even videoconferencing software like Zoom asks you if you want to join with camera before entering a conversation. This should be the norm, at least on the first time you enter a given game.

I read through the terms and conditions of roll20, and it says nothing about video broadcasting there. So, there is no default consent when you use this site. 

I think Keith was referring to user expectations based on what functions the site has to offer. The T&C don't talk about rolling virtual dice, either, but it is something that is in the advertised features of the site.

Rolling dice is not a breach of privacy though. As Keith mentioned, even video conferencing tools ask for consent first. What is advertised and what you expect is not as important as what laws need you to do. Just because someone is a known phtotographer doesn't give this person the right to make photos of everyone and everything everywhere.

Walking onto a stage contains an understanding, possibly an expectation, that people will take your photo. This is a case where the consent to be photographed must be explicitly denied rather than accepted. I'm just pointing out the shakiness of trying to argue this on legality rather than ethics. I absolutely agree that the consent needs to be given first and that video should be opt-in rather than opt-out on Roll20. After all, it's my suggestion. :D

That's why the law includes the term "inside a private place". I think most people play on roll20 from their homes and not from a stage :). I am no lawyer, so I can not say how critical it is, but at least your last argument can not be applied here. We will see if a bored US-based lawyer reads this :).

Please implement this. I've had friends abandon roll20 because of the camera settings. If you're shy and suddenly get broadcasted in front of the entire group (and maybe not while you're entirely dressed up for the occasion) it can really hurt that person.

I really hate that default setting.

Until Roll20 addresses this, advise your players when you invite them to your game that they should go into the game sometime before the first session is scheduled and turn off the video and any audio features you will not be using.  This will help prevent any unwanted broadcasting.  Alternately, you can suggest they unplug or disable their camera until they've set their broadcast preferences in the game.

+1

Falk said: That's why the law includes the term "inside a private place". I think most people play on roll20 from their homes and not from a stage :). I am no lawyer, so I can not say how critical it is, but at least your last argument can not be applied here. We will see if a bored US-based lawyer reads this :). The issue with this is: 1. By logging into the roll20 VTT, you consent to their terms, including using their platform for voice and video. 2. Your browser should be able to block voice/video at the source, unless you have told it "always trust roll20 to use my webcam and microphone," which you can disable so it will never connect or will ask you every time. Still would be nice to have the option though. Who does forced videochatting in the covid world?

Matt said: Falk said: That's why the law includes the term "inside a private place". The issue with this is: 1. By logging into the roll20 VTT, you consent to their terms, including using their platform for voice and video. Searching the Terms of Service and Privacy Policy webpage of Roll20/the Orr Group, I can not find "camera", "video", "webcam", "webcast" or "voice" I can not find any term in a relevant context.  I do find that they are located in Kansas and do adhere to this state's laws. I quoted from this state's laws directly when I said "That's why the law includes the term "inside a private place." 

Unless this conversation includes lawyers who specialize in privacy law, this is sophistry. The suggestion is a request based on privacy concerns. Arguing about the meaning of the law detracts from the intent. Ex: if it is proved that this is not a case where Roll20 is not legally bound to later the policy, I don't want the impression that someone can plant a Mission Accomplished flag and close the suggestion. IOW, I don't care what the law says, I just want to opt in rather than opt out.

+1 It's absurd this happens on such a popular and profitable web platform.  It FEELS like a violation of my privacy, therefore it is, whether it's illegal or not is not the question.

I agree with the suggestion and gave it an upvote. My workaround for now is to block Roll20's camera and microphone access at the browser level. Firefox Chrome That way I can toggle the permissions on if someone wants to use Roll20's video or audio (as opposed to a third party service) in a game, but it is off by default.

I've had my browser block Roll 20's access to my microphone for years because I once joined a new campaign and completely forgot my microphone was on...in the midst of singing along, quite loudly and, I'm sure, badly, to my background music. The amused reactions from the other players and DM were hilarious (they cheered me on even though I probably destroyed their eardrums), but that event is something I'd like to avoid repeating in the future. ;) There really should be an opt-in feature for audio-video, just like how Zoom, Discord, and literally everything else works.

2 things Could we perhaps expand  this to include a warning-info-sign-thing if the GM switches on broadcasting during the game? (during the game = if there are people in the game) AND Would it be possible to only activate broadcasting while a GM is present? (perhaps as an option)

These are all good suggestions, Jens.

+1 The fact that the video loads before I have time to turn it off definitely doesn't help. Gender dysphoria makes this unpleasant to deal with even without  anyone else online during setup. 

A possible variation, based on a player suggestion: Can we please get *all* of the Audio/Video options as defaults that one can set for any game we join? User preferences are often consistent across games. Broadcasting video and voice for sure (and I agree with the original Suggestion that the default for everyone should be None to start with), but also Display Name and video/avatar location/size. Thanks!

+1 I totally forgot this was defaulted on cause I turned it off in my browser long, long ago. But definitely it should be opt-in, as all privacy related issues should be. For mic/camera stuff, most sites have it as opt-in, though they have many other privacy issues as opt-out, which sucks. Defaults should always be "better safe than sorry" so to speak. But, yeah, this is a problem. Probably good idea for DMs to warn new people, yeah. I will add that I so appreciate that anyone actually cares enough about the privacy issue to suggest this, and nice to see others agreeing. I always feel like I'm the only person on earth who gives a crap about privacy. People often just shake their heads over my privacy issues, but I deserve my privacy just for the sake of privacy . (Or I might not be fully dressed. lol) I won't even play games that require video. (And audio is nearly always done with Discord anyway.) P.S. Nice that Kansas has such laws, but at this point it's really not a legal issue. How many people would know about that and how many would try to do anything about it? I mean, the camera already came on so what for the time being would be the point? That seems more about being stubborn about making a point. (Not that I would ever want to stubbornly make a point. :-))

My suspicion is that there is some sort of technical blockage or hurdle to adopting this, since Roll20 tends to be very attentive to topics like privacy and accessibility elsewhere.

keithcurtis said: My suspicion is that there is some sort of technical blockage or hurdle to adopting this, since Roll20 tends to be very attentive to topics like privacy and accessibility elsewhere. I doubt it.  It doesn't turn itself on when a player disables audio/video in the game settings tab.  Absolutely no reason they can't set that option to default NO instead of YES.

You'd be surprised at the limitations in Roll20 due to technical debt... One of the things they've been working very hard on for the last few years. It could also be that they ran some sort of study on this and determined that it was less problematic for a variety of other reasons (ex. fewer people posting bogus errors that "video doesn't work when I join"). I'd like the default to be OFF (I started the suggestion, after all), but I can live with whatever is implemented.

Any news on this?

There IS good news on the way:&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/11175063/release-notes-november-4th-2022" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/11175063/release-notes-november-4th-2022</a> . I hope this will make through.

This gets +1 and if also Players can choose Avatar Display Size for non-video (Large, Medium, Small, or Names Only) before opening for the first time. In my experience so many players get stuck on LARGE by default and don't see the setting to reduce it. The setting is even more buried now in the current Voice-and-Video settings panel under "Video Display". So let the player choose before loading: Video: On/Off Size of Video or Avatar Audio: On/Off

For those who have been following this suggestion, Opt-in is the default for the new voice/video system that is (time of writing) in beta. This is very welcome. Once connecting, you need to click on your avatar to activate the system.