Paypal option for subscribing

I would love to support Roll20, but I much prefer Paypal. Paypal is also a pretty huge payment type. Could we get paypal support for subscribing to Roll20?

The devs have addressed this before, it boils down to paypal being hard to work with for subscriptions, hard to code for, and otherwise pretty annoying to deal with. Not likely to happen anytime soon.

Sadly i was going to buy a subscription, but i don't own any credit cards and they don't take paypal :(

If you are comfortable with using your debt card online (you have to decide on the risk factor yourself) you could use that for the credit card. In the US, a lot of banks can issue temporary cards that have a set limit or a one time use feature. You could also use the prepaid cards (green dots, etc) to make a lump payment or even a continuous payment if you go monthly because you can load what you need as the time comes towards the renewal date. If you are outside the states then I don't know, sorry if that doesn't help much.

there have been so many threads on paypal but no budging on roll20's part. i think they'd get a ton more business that would be worth their while if they took the leap to implement paypal payment options. it's like they want more support but don't want to actually do what's necessary to get it. the lack of paypal is the only thing holding me back from supporting roll20 and buying a ton of stuff on the marketplace as well. i'm not going to go through the hassle of prepaid cards, temporary cards, etc. just for roll20, no offense. i love roll20 but without paypal i will not be subscribing or buying from the marketplace anytime in the near future.

Art B. said: there have been so many threads on paypal but no budging on roll20's part. i think they'd get a ton more business that would be worth their while if they took the leap to implement paypal payment options. it's like they want more support but don't want to actually do what's necessary to get it. the lack of paypal is the only thing holding me back from supporting roll20 and buying a ton of stuff on the marketplace as well. i'm not going to go through the hassle of prepaid cards, temporary cards, etc. just for roll20, no offense. i love roll20 but without paypal i will not be subscribing or buying from the marketplace anytime in the near future. That's the one holding me back from getting a Mentor subscription. I don't like handing out my credit card info to more than a handful of groups. I keep a very close eye on what's spent and through whom so I can spot fraud (having been a victim of it before) as it happens rather than two months later.

I wonder if it would be profitable for them to offer it as an option for the yearly purchase but not the monthly? I think the devs stated that at the prices they offer for the subscription, paypal fees would make it where roll20 would not be making a profit but I don't know if that would apply to a once a year subscription. Could they make a profit that way? I'm sure they are looking into more ways to help people subscribe since that would put more money in their pockets.

I'd also like to seethis

Yes, give option to paypal, please...I'll slap your face with money if you give me the option to do it with paypal :D

Pat S. said: I wonder if it would be profitable for them to offer it as an option for the yearly purchase but not the monthly? I think the devs stated that at the prices they offer for the subscription, paypal fees would make it where roll20 would not be making a profit but I don't know if that would apply to a once a year subscription. Could they make a profit that way? I'm sure they are looking into more ways to help people subscribe since that would put more money in their pockets. that is a fantastic idea and i would hope they could implement at least this (yearly subscriptions) and marketplace paypal options.

Here is what the Devs have had to say on this topic: <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/3370/subscriptio" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/3370/subscriptio</a>... and <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/2623/alternative" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/2623/alternative</a>... Generally the suggestion most people seem to come up with has been to get a pre-paid card through PayPal or some other service.

I am still stunned that the Dev's of this program have not found a way for us to do monthly payments for subscriptions, in an online ability. There are so many posts through out the forums where folks are actually telling the Dev's that if they had that option there would be MORE MONEY coming in, and still nothing. It's just silly to me. I like the convenience of online banking hence why I like using Paypal, or Stripe or whatever is out there. It saves me time of going to a bank or a post office and having to stand in line while I wait to do my banking. It just boggles my mind that in this day and age that the Programmers and Dev's can't and it seems, WON'T find an answer for this issue. People are telling you, give me a way to pay you on line and I'll give you money, and I'm still seeing the words that say........No! People want your service, if you want to be successful as a business you make it EASIER not HARDER for them to give it to you. If Paypal is too expensive.....k.....then it should be worked into the price of the subscription, but that can't be done? I totally love this program, I like the idea and the initiative behind it. But I have NEVER, EVER heard the company I'm dealing with say to me. "We will sell you our service but YOU have to go get a payment method to get it." *shakes head* THAT is not customer service. That is just foolish. Until I can pay online without having to go get a credit card for payment, I just can't give you the monetary support I would like. I am seeing many, many people say the same thing, and you are turning us away. That's a bad business model. In these times where folks can't find work, such as myself, and want to GIVE you some of what they do have to support their beloved hobbies and addictions, you are telling us no. You are telling us to go get a prepaid card and we'll talk, it seems very pompous and less then helpful. My money comes in and it goes out, sometimes I have a little bit to spend on what *I* want, and you want me to go to ANOTHER business, get a prepaid card. You are telling me to pay $15/$100 to have them load the amount on it, then come home and give you your subscription!!! So far you have cost me the gas to get there, the line I stood in, the service fees they charged to give me the card, the gas to get home, and then the fee for your subscription. So your subscription has cost me about $130 (The subscription 100 + the Service fee $15 + the gas $5 + my time to stand in the line $10 (minimum wage here))!!! Not to mention they hold back a certain percentage on the ppcard for some services, so you may have to add another $15 to cover that fee as well. So if paypal charges you for the service, I would like to know......what is your costs for a payment option? If it's more then the extra $30 - $45 I'm paying PER PERSON that uses it, then I understand your position and agree with it. But if not, then I just don't get it.

Well pretty much the same as the above people, wont get a credit card just for this and thus cant subscribe. Though the dynamic lightening and the support for you would be totally worth it!

Wendy, from what I understand the problem is not a price point with Paypal, it is that Paypal does not play nice with subscriptions. It is designed for one time transactions and is not stable with recurring (subscription) transactions. That is not something Roll20 can do anything about as it is on Paypal's end.

Dropbox and Spotify accept PayPal for monthly subscriptions. It plays nice enough for their many users. PayPal offers a subscription payment product. I'm not saying that product would work for Roll20's needs, just attesting that PayPal subscription for other sites exists and functions as expected, billing $9.99 monthly consistently month after month. I surmise that the problem may be in PayPal's terms of service or business style (reputation) that hasn't suited the company culture behind this site. PayPal subs could be made to work here from a technical standpoint; Roll20 have elected not to pursue that avenue. Generously --- one would have to say remarkably generously --- there is no need to pay for using Roll20 at all. Sure, they're turning down our PayPal money -- but they're letting us in for free. Anyone who can't find a payment method that works can still use the free account here which is highly playable. Subscriptions here are mainly for advanced GM's. Another factor I think is important to remember in these discussions: the Devs have discussed and looked into these payment issues. They have an interest. It's not been ignored. They've answered these PayPal thread questions before, though perhaps not recently. They've made decisions, and they can change their decision later, but either way, it's not because they are uninformed or unaware that people want this. They've had their meetings. They've looked at the fine-print from PayPal from a business standpoint (which most of us PayPal consumers haven't honestly done, let's be honest, who among us really knows the charges and hassles, paperwork and accounting, for accepting PayPal on a large scale?). While PayPal would be a convenience for many website users, and while it may seem strange that Roll20 hasn't made ready to accept our money in that form, I believe that Roll20 has their reasons, and doesn't really owe us more explanation, beyond the awesome fact that they are letting us use the site without paying anyway. I feel like payment options will probably be expanded in the long run. In the meantime, there's free.

Gold said: I surmise that the problem may be in PayPal's terms of service or business style (reputation) that hasn't suited the company culture behind this site. PayPal subs could be made to work here from a technical standpoint; Roll20 have elected not to pursue that avenue. Generously --- one would have to say remarkably generously --- there is no need to pay for using Roll20 at all. That is what I've been able to piece together through various searches and reading. Paypal charges fees to the business for the service and at the price roll20 is asking for their subscription, the fees would eat most of the money. One option is to pass the fee along to the subscriber but that would be unfair to the subscriber. Another option is to raise the price across the board to cover the fee but that would be unfair to the members that do not use paypal. The devs are probably constantly reviewing their options and working on this matter when they are not coding upgrades.

Gold said: Dropbox and Spotify accept PayPal for monthly subscriptions. It plays nice enough for their many users. PayPal offers a subscription payment product. I'm not saying that product would work for Roll20's needs, just attesting that PayPal subscription for other sites exists and functions as expected, billing $9.99 monthly consistently month after month. PayPal's seller protection does not cover digital goods (I'm not certain whether it treats digital services the same way, however) PayPal levies high fees against the seller for chargebacks PayPal's customer service is notoriously spotty For a merchant pulling $0-$3000 each month, transactions with PayPal cost 2.9% + $0.30 per transaction. An annual Mentor subscriber would cost Roll20 $3.20 per year, annual Supporter would cost $1.75 per year, monthly Mentor would cost $7.08 per year, and monthly Supporter would cost $5.34 per year. The rate does go down the more money you make in a month (to a minimum of 2.2% + $0.30 if you make more than $10,000). Normal merchant accounts charge fees based on the card used and service/item type purchased, rather than the sales volume (which is why many places accept Visa and Master Card, but not American Express =P). I'm not certain exactly what merchant services Roll20 does use, but as an example of comparison to PayPal, the fee for eCommerce Basic with a Visa Signature card is 1.95% + $0.10. That $7.08/yr cost of the monthly Mentor paying with PayPal switches to his Visa card and suddenly costs Roll20 only $3.54/yr -- literally HALF as much -- while the annual Supporter drops his cost by 39%. PayPal is one of the most expensive merchant services available. Additionally, enabling recurring payments with PayPal requires a $20/mo fee. Wendy M. said: I like the convenience of online banking hence why I like using Paypal, or Stripe or whatever is out there. PayPal is emphatically not online banking. PayPal is eCommerce, and functions entirely differently (and is subject to entirely different laws) from digital banking.

I'm pretty sure they did a good job of explaining the PayPal thing at the Roll20 Panel at GenCon. I don't remember the details though. (Wish I would have recorded it!). If I were a business taking PayPal, I'd be worried about this facet of their Seller Protection Service: The item sold must be a physical, tangible item that can be shipped. This means intangible items such as digital goods and services are not covered. Since they are paying 3 people's salaries (soon more we hope!) out of the subscriber base, they can't risk any problem with the flow of funds. (And PayPal is notorious for screwing people on funds.) I honestly don't understand the fascination with buying things with PayPal, I've always found it to be a complete pain in the butt. Or the difficulty in buying this with a "credit card". I don't have any actual credit cards, just a bank card that acts like one. (I do understand that there are compilations for our international friends.) I can understand that prepaid CCs are obnoxious, but that presentation of it just seems like sensationalism/trolling to me. I wouldn't drive $5 worth of gas (12 miles even if I still had my bus!) away for JUST a CC, I'd pick one up at the store while grocery shopping or whatever. Also, $15 as a service fee seems pretty excessive, I can't find a card that costs that much. And $10 worth of standing in line? Are you in line for an hour and 20 minutes? Wouldn't you be in line anyway to buy groceries? Finally, almost everyone knows someone with a CC. It's surely less obnoxious to ask them to buy something on your behalf rather than the thousands of dollars it apparently costs to get you own prepaid or bank card version.

Many banks in the usa and possibly worldwide allows people to setup payments through their account. That might be an option to look in to also.

Aaron said: I honestly don't understand the fascination with buying things with PayPal, I've always found it to be a complete pain in the butt. Or the difficulty in buying this with a "credit card". I don't have any actual credit cards, just a bank card that acts like one. (I do understand that there are compilations for our international friends.) As far as I can tell, the primary issue with people who want PayPal for Roll20 is users outside the US who can't or won't get a credit card for any reason. There are valid reasons for not wanting a real credit card, and many places outside the US don't offer debit cards backed by credit card companies. For the vast majority of digital shopping carts, you can only use a debit card if that card is backed by a CC company.

Brian said: Aaron said: I honestly don't understand the fascination with buying things with PayPal, I've always found it to be a complete pain in the butt. Or the difficulty in buying this with a "credit card". I don't have any actual credit cards, just a bank card that acts like one. (I do understand that there are compilations for our international friends.) As far as I can tell, the primary issue with people who want PayPal for Roll20 is users outside the US who can't or won't get a credit card for any reason. There are valid reasons for not wanting a real credit card, and many places outside the US don't offer debit cards backed by credit card companies. For the vast majority of digital shopping carts, you can only use a debit card if that card is backed by a CC company. Right. I think Wendy is probably in the US though, as she talks about $ for gas and minimum wage. I get the international angle and I feel for them.

Yeah, for US users I don't get the need for PayPal. It's beyond trivial to get a debit card from your bank, which will be backed by someone like Visa or Master Card, and work just like a credit card except you subtract money from a checking account immediately instead of going into debt which you pay off later. And a PayPal account is going to be tied to a checking account, too, so it's not like a lack of a bank account is the problem. Well, I suppose you could "charge up" a PayPal account by selling things on eBay and never tie it to a bank account, but that seems unnecessarily unwieldy.

Actually I don't think you can 'charge up a Paypal account' as they have mandatory government reporting requirements and once a certain amount has gone through your account it has to be linked to a bank account so they can report transactions/income to the government (many governments not just the US government).

Ah well this will go round and round. The point for me. Until there is a way to pay online, even though I love what Roll20 is all about, I cannot get a credit card because my credit is crap. I'm not paying the fee to get a "loaded" one because I really can't afford it. So I'll stick to the free side. If there is another program that will do what I need it to do, and I can support it through an online payment option, then I will support it. I would like all the bells and whistles this one offers, but there simply is no way for me to get those options, I live in Canada, so some of the US options are not available to me, like getting a credit card in a grocery lineup, we either go to a postal outlet, or apply on line for a credit card.. As well I know that Paypal does do monthly payments because that's how my Netflix was done, AND my purchase of my Microsoft Office is done every month. If and when a payment option (that is friendly to Canadians) to use online comes available, I'll definitely sign on with Roll20. I do find this sad and disappointing, but there's no point running in circles. Thanks for at least hearing me out and being so great about the responses. Hugs to all

Wendy M. said: I cannot get a credit card because my credit is crap. Actually you can get a credit card even with a bad credit. It is called a secured credit card. Basically what it does is you deposit a specific amount of money and they issue you a card with credit equal to that amount. Bank of American does it and other CC companies do. Secured credit card info You can find more info about various cards here: <a href="http://www.cardhub.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cardhub.com/</a> Just select credit cards and click on your credit level. It will give you a list of cards that match what you can get.

A Canadian friend of mine suggests: <a href="https://www.vanillamastercard.com/home.html?locale" rel="nofollow">https://www.vanillamastercard.com/home.html?locale</a>...