Let me give you my money!

Let me start with two quick caveats.  First, I realise there are lots of demands on Roll20 and prioritisation is a complex business, (which risks upsetting everyone and pleasing no-one).  Secondly, I fully understand that Roll20 and DnD Beyond are third-party competitors who licence the products from WoC. But all that said, I cannot understand why Roll20 is making it so difficult for me to give them money! Before I understood the Roll20/ DnD Beyond dynamic, I was frustrated at having to buy the products twice.  Once I understood, I decided I'd go with one over the other for the source books.  I would like to go with Roll20 but I cannot, for two simple reasons: Lack of Bookshelf :  The content is not  presented (or at least not easily so) as it appears in the Sourcebook.  The Compendium as a composite of all the material is a great tool, but is no substitute for the books themselves. Absence/ Delay of Material :  Where is the Dungeon Master's Guide?  Where is the SCAG?  Where is the new Fiendish Folio?  Put simply, once I'm compelled to buy from DnD Beyond, I'm not going to buy again from Roll20, (no matter what the additional benefits are).  Make it available at the same time and I'll buy it here and give up DnD Beyond.  This is even more difficult to understand when niche books are released very quickly: Explorer's Guide to Wildemont: how on earth was that prioritised over SCAG?  Rick and Morty: how was that prioritised over anything (same question to WoC). Incidentally, resolve this issue (especially if you add page number cross referencing to 1) and DnD Beyond becomes obsolete.  Like many old D&D vets, I have a good disposable income burning a hole in my pocket but Roll20 seem not to want to take it.  I cannot get my head around that.  What is worth noting, once I (and many others) have invested elsewhere, it becomes difficult to justify abandoning that platform.

The new stuff is likely being converted because it is new, and therefore in demand. The process has been developed, and things like Rick and Morty are so transitory, it's probably a "now or never" proposition (and in this particular case, short). When SCAG was released, the Compendium was still in its infancy. As I understand it, ti kept getting backburnered in favor of converting the most recent content. Roll20 is finally large enough (enough people on keyboards) to take care of that backlog. I don't represent Roll20 in any way. This is my impression based on public statements.

You may be right, but I’d venture it’s shaky calculus.  For instance, because of the availability of Fiend Folio (et al) on DnD Beyond, it’s now or never for those products.  Prioritising new niche releases over staples is not a good trade off. In  any event, I can’t see that as being a full explanation.  Fiend Folio is a new release and the Compendium has been stable for some time, plenty of time to implement DMG, SCAG. At the very least, a backlog schedule might help persuade some of us to hold of before the “never” stage is passed ;)

Incidentally, I’ve also suggested Roll20 have two purchase levels (much like Beyond does).  The raw text and the added digital content.  That would at least shorten the time for the books’ release.

Hi Allan -  I understand you're looking to make a choice on where to invest for your library of D&D product and I'm glad that you're reaching out for more insight into our process. I believe I can help with a few points of context for you: We have been day and date with all new Wizards of the Coast releases (save for Rick and Morty, which was released one week after official launch) since Tomb of Annihilation We have 3 back catalog products, which were released before Tomb of Annihilation: Dungeon Masters Guide, Out of the Abyss, and Sword Coast Adventurers Guide - We have a goal of releasing all three of these books this year.  We do not have a licensing relationship with Dungeon Masters Guild and thus we do not publish their products on our platform. The only exception being Tactical Maps Adventure Atlas, which received a hardcover release from Wizards of the Coast At this time, we have no plans to become back catalog complete with Dungeon Masters Guild as we do not have a licensing relationship with them. If that is the place that your decision lies - I totally understand! D&D Beyond is a D&D only platform while Roll20 supports several game systems officially. We do our best to do right by D&D fans - many of us are long time fans as well - but our offerings for the foreseeable future will be official Wizards of the Coast releases only.  Thanks for reaching out!

So how about that Dungeonmasters guide? Why did it take this long?

Devs have mentioned many times that there are many options and systems in the DM's Guide that needed specific solving to implement. They have always wanted to implement it in a rich way that enhanced the content for use on the VTT, not simply book text, thus the delay until tools were ready to handle the content. As pointed out by Trivia, they are planning to be WotC back catalog complete this year, including the DMG. (I'm not a dev, just distilling a couple of years of forum posts and discussion on roundtables).

Hi Trivia.  Thank you for your response.  Any response is always appreciated.  Just a few points in response: - you mentioned being a “day and date” since Tome of Annihilation.  I’m assuming that mean same day release.  In which case, am I Mordenkainen’s Fiendish Folio? - is there any view about the presentation point (ie also displaying each book as a sequential read - Loren makes a good point about the delay caused by the dynamic content.  However, as suggested, why not have the text and the digital assets as two separate purchases (as Beyond does).  This has the best of both Worlds? 

Just a quick google check shows that  Mordenkainen’s Fiendish Folio is a DM Guild/Extra Life release for WoTC, not an official product.

Some points: Mordenkainen's Fiendish Folio is a DMs Guild product. (Kilter brought this up, but it it in reverse and probably unreadable to the standard forum style.) As Trivia has said, Roll20 does not have a partnership with the DMs Guild. As a further note, DMs Guild is much more of a self-publishing outlet. There's no guide as to what would be worth conversion (even if they did have an agreement). On the other hand, there are many small "self-published" adventures unique to Roll20. You can get a much closer to sequential read of any book by going to the Compendium home page (link in the header menus) and clicking on the particular book, It's difficult to compare anything presented on Roll20 or FG to DnDBeyond. DnDBeyond has a much tighter integration to WotC (to the point of being a de facto sink-or-swim digital publishing partner). They have different powers and restrictions in presentation. Roll20 is bound by licensing agreements. If you would like to see different presentation on Roll20, you would need to petition both companies, but particularly WotC. These are not decisions that Roll20 can unilaterally make.

Thanks both.  With regards to Fiendish Folio, I had not appreciated it was a DM Guild publication. In relation to the book presentation point, I’m not sure what you mean about WoC restrictions.  As Keith notes, some books can be found, albeit not intuitivemy.  I cannot see that as being a WoC restrictions issue.  It seems to be far more about how Roll20 has set up the compendium.  In particular, I cannot see that WoC would prevent Roll20 from having a bookshelf, showing each of the purchased sourcebooks with the sections being viewed in sequential reading order (such as with the PHB already). If I’m wrong, then it’s not really for individuals to take this up with WoC but Roll20.  Ultimately, I’m trying to explain why I have money to give Roll20 and how they might go about taking it.  It’s a matter for Roll20 if they think it’s worth addressing.  They have control of their system and are in a better position to discuss with WoC.

An example of a restriction might be: "You may not present the books as a single continuous text stream that could be copied and pasted". I don't know what any actual restrictions are beyond those which has been released publicly, such as Roll20 cannot "add" missing art. If a creature or npc has no character art, they cannot supply their own.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding - but if you have purchased a book such as the PHB on Roll20, in the browser you'll find a "next page" button on the bottom of each page - you can read it like a book! :)

Hi Trivia, thanks again for responding. So there are two points really.   First, is the difference between the between the in game and out of game compendium.  Externally, you can see a bookshelf and, in the case of some books (eg PHB) read them like a book.  In game, however, there is no bookshelf.  You can sort of still get to the material indirectly but it’s not very intuitive. Second, this does not apply to all books. The Tyranny of Dragons is a great example.  If you find the book in the out of game compendium, all you get is an intro blurb and links to two appendices.  If you access in game, it’s done by separate handouts.   I’m not sure how many fall into each category.  But that is what I’m referring to.  Hope that helps.

In the first case, the use of the compendium dictates the presentation. If you are in-game, but want to read the book, open a new browser window. I have my compendiums on bookmarks. In the second case, Compendium content on a module is usually fairly minimal, limited to a smattering of spells, monsters and maybe races/backgrounds, etc. The module itself is formatted to be used in play. I can see the appeal of a sequential read option, though.

Thanks Keith.  Re in game, I’ve actually created a handout with a link to the books and called it Bookshelf ;). Still, it would be nice if there was a more intuitive native option.  To be honest, this is the more minor issue. Re modules like ToD, while I quite like the handout options for in-game, it means I cannot read it normally.  For example, in prep for my game tonight, I’d like to pull it up on my mobile phones browser and have a read.  If ToD was presented as the PHB was, I could do that.  Instead, I have to log in and read the handouts (which is virtually impossible in my phone).  That makes it a deal breaker. Can I just check though, are you saying it’s only Adventure Modules formatted this way, (ie source books are all as the PHB)?

As far as I can tell, a sourcebook is set up for a sequential read. If you go to the Compendium home page for 5e, you will see an icon and link like you do for the PHB, that leads to the book, laid out similarly. Also, (and I know it still not ideal), you can read all of the handouts in a game by going to your campaign home page, clicking the "Content" button, and choosing "External Journal Access". I have some of my journal handouts on bookmarks that way.

Trivia said: I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding - but if you have purchased a book such as the PHB on Roll20, in the browser you'll find a "next page" button on the bottom of each page - you can read it like a book! :) Hello Trivia, I've used Roll20 for several years and I don't think I have ever seen purchased content laid out in this fashion.  How do I access any of my purchased content and read it like a book?  When I access through the compendium I see a table of contents and then a "View All Rules" hyperlink at the bottom, but never a "Next Page" button. Secondly, if this is an actual thing, I have a feeling a lot of users probably don't know about it (I've heard many complaints over the years from people saying the purchased content in Roll20 is all chopped up and difficult to read.) -Adam

Actually, I'm not seeing a "Next Page" link anywhere either. I use the print editions for reading, and rarely try an on-screen sequential read. I was going off of the wiki , which does not seem to be correct. In fact, the section on turning pages is under the "Filtered results" subsection. The Help Center article gives the same information. (I'd give a link, but the Help Center does not yet support anchor links)

Trivia said: I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding - but if you have purchased a book such as the PHB on Roll20, in the browser you'll find a "next page" button on the bottom of each page - you can read it like a book! :) Could you describe how I do this, Trivia? I can't get the compendium to open like a book no matter how I do it. The search engine is clunky at best and mostly useless when it comes to look up rules on a fly and this function would be really handy.

The lack of response is disheartening.

Hi all - I completely appreciate the desire to view compendiums on Roll20 like books on a shelf and compendium expansions as books themselves. I'm sorry you're not finding the current experience very intuitive, and that, in particular, that there seems to be a bug in the "next page" feature we have not caught for some time. We do and have always sorted compendium pages into a "page order" in each expansion in anticipation of reading them like books, and were unaware that functionality had stumbled. This fell through the cracks, and I've now submitted it to developers to check out now. Right now I would say the easiest way to navigate a compendium is through its index. Thank you all for your feedback regarding searches and usability. I'll make sure I get this in front of the appropriate eyes as we continue compendium maintenance and development in the future.

Thanks for the reply Ashton. Now on to the games.

Thanks Ashton.  That was a very thoughtful message and much appreciated.