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[AD&D 2E Revised Sheet] Rogue improvements

1584303744
Peter B.
Sheet Author
Hello Roll20 community administrators. I have made an addition to the&nbsp; AD&amp;D 2E Revised Sheet and would like to test it for any errors. I am currently not a pro member, and find the price to become one a bit steep. Could anyone host my code changes in a game and invite me to that game so that I can test my changes? The code is available here:&nbsp; <a href="https://github.com/DBFBlackbull/roll20-character-sheets/tree/AD%26D-2E-Revised_Improve-rolls" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/DBFBlackbull/roll20-character-sheets/tree/AD%26D-2E-Revised_Improve-rolls</a> &nbsp;in the branch Improve-rolls . Do I need to create a pull request for the main Roll20 repository ( <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets</a> ) before you can host my code, or is it possible to host it directly from my own repository? I would prefer to not create a pull request before the code is tested and in a state where I am comfortable with it being deployed.
1584322216
Gold
Forum Champion
i can host a game for what you asked. I play 2E, but tend to use the Simple Sheet version, but I would still be happy to facilitate testing for you on this.
1584327483
Gold
Forum Champion
table open to Peter and any enthusiasts for the AD&amp;D 2E Revised Character Sheet testing <a href="https://app.roll20.net/join/6033300/dZzSTA" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/join/6033300/dZzSTA</a> link shared intentionally
1584347711
Peter B.
Sheet Author
Gold said: table open to Peter and any enthusiasts for the AD&amp;D 2E Revised Character Sheet testing <a href="https://app.roll20.net/join/6033300/dZzSTA" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/join/6033300/dZzSTA</a> link shared intentionally Thank you for the host. I have already spotted multiple errors that I need to fix. I will reply to this post when I need an updated version to test the bug fixes :)
1584348188

Edited 1584348237
Gold
Forum Champion
Glad it's working. PM me or reply here when updated. Or use the "game" forum. Installing "Custom Sheet" is not something I've done a lot of times. I just copied your HTML file into Custom character sheet HTML of the game, and your CSS from github copy-pasted into CSS section. Seems to be the proper procedure, if it's working suitably for testing. u can import characters from the Character Vault if that helps
1584369077
Peter B.
Sheet Author
Gold said: Glad it's working. PM me or reply here when updated. Or use the "game" forum. Hey. I made some style changes. Please update the sheet so I can test the changes :)
1584370079
GiGs
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Gold said: Glad it's working. PM me or reply here when updated. Or use the "game" forum. Installing "Custom Sheet" is not something I've done a lot of times. I just copied your HTML file into Custom character sheet HTML of the game, and your CSS from github copy-pasted into CSS section. Seems to be the proper procedure, if it's working suitably for testing. u can import characters from the Character Vault if that helps That is how you instal a custom sheet, so you've done that perfectly.
1584372882
Peter B.
Sheet Author
GiGs said: Gold said: Glad it's working. PM me or reply here when updated. Or use the "game" forum. Installing "Custom Sheet" is not something I've done a lot of times. I just copied your HTML file into Custom character sheet HTML of the game, and your CSS from github copy-pasted into CSS section. Seems to be the proper procedure, if it's working suitably for testing. u can import characters from the Character Vault if that helps That is how you instal a custom sheet, so you've done that perfectly. I am not a Pro memeber myself so I cannot update the custom sheet after I have updated the code. That is why I wrote to Gold to please update the sheet again :)
1584389695
Gold
Forum Champion
@ GiGs some (most) github folders usually seem to have more/extra files in there, like .json files. Also a non-Gitter (me) does not necessarily know how to properly grab the code -- I clicked a button "RAW" on git, and then did select-all, then COPY. Interestingly this process takes a millisecond on the CSS file, but takes like 5 seconds delay on the HTML (i guess it contains a lot of text for the clipboard to hold). Almost thought it wasn't going to let me copy it all, but it did after waiting. In conclusion thank you for confirming that I did a proper procedure. @ Peter, I will grab your latest sheet code from GitHub and install it to the game, within probably 2-5 hours from now.
1584389934
GiGs
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
Gold said: @ GiGs some (most) github folders usually seem to have more/extra files in there, like .json files. Also a non-Gitter (me) does not necessarily know how to properly grab the code -- I clicked a button "RAW" on git, and then did select-all, then COPY. Interestingly this process takes a millisecond on the CSS file, but takes like 5 seconds delay on the HTML (i guess it contains a lot of text for the clipboard to hold). Almost thought it wasn't going to let me copy it all, but it did after waiting. In conclusion thank you for confirming that I did a proper procedure. The other files can be ignored, unless there's one called translations.&nbsp; If a translations file exists, you grab that one too. When I'm manually copying from github, I use the RAW method too. It's the best way to get a clean copy. The slowness for that html file was probably due to the file size - lots of html files are massively bigger than the css files. But it might just have been a bit of slowdown at github, or on your pc.
1585240446

Edited 1585320155
Peter B.
Sheet Author
Link to the Pull Request:&nbsp; <a href="https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/6024" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/Roll20/roll20-character-sheets/pull/6024</a> Here is the change log over the work that I've done Rogue skills BEFORE AFTER Added another row of buttons for Leather armor (neutral roll). To No Armor I have added a column for bonuses, so that custom bonuses can be given to custom rogue skills. Heavy armor, for lack of a better work, have been added for rolls in armor that gives penalties, also with possibility for custom penalties for custom skills. I also added the thief skill armor adjustment tables from Players handbook, and from Bards Handbook. When you roll, it also shows what armor type you are rolling for:&nbsp; Melee Weapons I was annoyed with the fact that the weapon rows were not alligned, so I did that. I also renamed all "Ini" buttons to say "Initiative" for them to be clearer. The check boxes alignement do not look perfect in this iteration, but I will look into that in the next version: I cleaned up the Hit and Damage calculations so they are actually readable I removed Dex from both Melee Hit and Damage as there is no Dex bonus for melee weapons. Also the checkmark was not used in any of the roll calculations If some book or other source has a special rule, the bonuses can still be applied using the regular input fields for Attack and Damange adjustment Before After Ranged Weapons Same clean up of styling and calculations for ranged weapons as for melee. I Removed Speciality and Mastery checkmarks from ranged weapons, as there introduced confustion. In the Player's Handbook the rules for speciality states that it gives no extra damage &nbsp;but in the Player's Options (Combat and Tactics) it states that speciality gives extra damage . I chose to go with the players handbook as the primary source in this case. Players who use the Player's Options (Combat and Tactics) &nbsp;book, can still add their desired bonuses in the Attack Adj, and Damage Adj fields. Removed Point Blank from Damage rolls for the same reason as given above. Added point blank to Hit rolls, as the Player's Handbook states that you get +2 to his when specialized in a ranged weapon and using Point Blank Removed the Dex checkmark from ranged Damage rolls as Dex only gives a Missile Attack Adjustment (To Hit) and no bonus to damage. This was incorrectly calculated to be also added to damage Before After Other miscellaneous changes Added spell name to initative roll, just like with weapons Updated surprise check, to show what number to check against (3 as defined in Player's Handbook ). Also condensed the calculations for readability Added a modifer popup for Saving Throws Added a textbox for notekeeping on experience Before After
1585289280
Gold
Forum Champion
Love the addition of a NOTES field under Experience. That's more the way I like to track XP, kind of a diary/spreadsheet of quests and play-dates.
1585305236

Edited 1585305436
AquaAlex
Pro
Sheet Author
Translator
API Scripter
Just keep in mind Some people play with the option that some characters can use DEX instead of STR for hitting with melee weapons (Finess proficiency / class specific ability) - Dont think to many would Str dam bonus can be added to melee and throwing weapons for damage and to some ranged weapons. And that sheet was made to cover all the options from teh Players Options so some people may have issues with these changes. I like what you did with this sheet, but I can tell you from experience there will be people with issues oneach change. So jsut keep eye on issues logged for this sheet and see how you can compromise between the different groups :)
1585314531

Edited 1585315281
Peter B.
Sheet Author
AquaAlex said: Just keep in mind Some people play with the option that some characters can use DEX instead of STR for hitting with melee weapons (Finess proficiency / class specific ability) - Dont think to many would Str dam bonus can be added to melee and throwing weapons for damage and to some ranged weapons. And that sheet was made to cover all the options from teh Players Options so some people may have issues with these changes. I like what you did with this sheet, but I can tell you from experience there will be people with issues oneach change. So jsut keep eye on issues logged for this sheet and see how you can compromise between the different groups :) Thank you for the awesome feedback Dex instead of Str I have mainly played with the base rule set from the players handbook, so I didn't know about adding adding Dex instead of Str for melee weapons. On that note I can say that for melee weapons the Hit and Damage roll macros did no include the Dex bonus, even if you had checked it off. So not much of a change there. Str for ranged weapons I am aware that Str bonus can be added to thrown weapons aswell as special Bows that allow for a harder pull of the arrow. That is why I kept the Str bonus for both Hit and Damage rolls for ranged weapons. Players Options and the players When I made the changes I was kinda looking for a forum or a community to chat to about the changes. However I was unable to find any, and since the sheet had not been updated for the last 3 years, before I added my last PR, I assume that it was pretty much dead, and therefore free to be updated. I would love to get some feedback from the different groups about this. If it becomes a big problem for a lot of people, then I was thinking about adding the old code again, but making a new section just like for the rogue skills with a page for Standard rules, and a page for Skills and Power / Combat and Tactics About where to look for issues logged on the sheet. Should I just look on this forum, or is there a more official place to post bugs / changes?
1585317230

Edited 1585317281
Gold
Forum Champion
i will send u the 2E Tavern discord, roll20, forum group Peter Not an official answer. :D
is this just a proposed change, or done, or done but not implemented yet? i only ask because personally i love the complicated but much more useful Red sheet and use it for the game i am in the process of setting up, and it is used in other games. being an avid supporter who suggests it in any new game i join, i must say i LOVE the cleanup of the rolls, the additions to the Rogue skills, and the removal of pointless check boxes. the next thing i would humbly ask for changes to would be the Equipment tab, only because i have personally had to explain to people, for example, that Armor does not go into the Armor/Head/L Arm/Right Arm..... you get my point... a suggestion would be a "simplified" list, with the option to Modify like many other tables in the sheet offer.
1585339973
AquaAlex
Pro
Sheet Author
Translator
API Scripter
Is all good :)
1585345082
Peter B.
Sheet Author
Paul W. said: is this just a proposed change, or done, or done but not implemented yet? i only ask because personally i love the complicated but much more useful Red sheet and use it for the game i am in the process of setting up, and it is used in other games. being an avid supporter who suggests it in any new game i join, i must say i LOVE the cleanup of the rolls, the additions to the Rogue skills, and the removal of pointless check boxes. the next thing i would humbly ask for changes to would be the Equipment tab, only because i have personally had to explain to people, for example, that Armor does not go into the Armor/Head/L Arm/Right Arm..... you get my point... a suggestion would be a "simplified" list, with the option to Modify like many other tables in the sheet offer. I have also thought about the equipment list being a little over zealous. The idea for a simplified list is really good, as a lot of players just write stuff down, without explicitly explaining where on their character everything is. Also it is more the the paper sheet that just had like 15 fields for equipment of varias kinds
1585345162
Peter B.
Sheet Author
AquaAlex said: Is all good :) Great. I think, I will go forward with these changes, and if I see too much reaction about the missing features I will just have to add them again :)
I just found the culprit ! xD First of all, thank you for your time in fixing bugs and for proposing enhancements in the character sheets. You pointed out a very important problem too: there is no simple way to contact character sheet users to discuss about fixes and/or enhancements about a particuliar character sheet in Roll20 site/app. Thus, when the changes are committed, it may break countless games sometimes even during play (a player that reload his/her browser after losing his/her connection for example.) Maybe we should ask Roll20 staff to create a tool to warn players about changes in community-driven character sheets (in the form of a message like MotD/Important Notice when a player join a game using a community-driven sheet to be modified with a link to the corresponding forum thread?) About the changes made in the AD&amp;D 2E Revised CS: Rogues skills The new Rogue skills table takes much more space than before and I know some of my players will be totally mad when they will see it (due to excessive small screen resolution). In to order to keep the sheet tight, may I ask you to follow your very first intuition and move the new Rogue skills table fields (i.e. Heavy Armor macro and data fields) to a new 'Custom' section? It may help a lot for low-end computers and tablets. The chat addition about Armor type is very cool. It allows to remind the DM and PC about armor penalties and the latter may think about changing/removing his/her armor on the next attempt. ( It reminds others PC too about how well the thief is equiped... ;-)) Melee Weapons I remember noticing the weapons rows not to be aligned when I first used the CS. That's a good point they are now in row. But I would have kept the 'Ini' button and not renamed it (again for saving space). Summing up all the bonuses and penalties in the final calculation is good and bad news: it clearly make the calculation much more readable but it also prevent the DM from inspecting the calculation. Thus, if a player did not clearly understand the rules, the DM cannot explain it (and it denies the player to learn from his/her mistakes.) Not a game-breaker for me but if you stand your ground may I ask you to add parenthesis around the calculation (like : 20-((18+ ( -8)) and not 20-((18+-8)) which is incorrect from a displaying point a view). I rejoin AquaAlex about custom rules, some players use STR adj. for damage only and DEX adj. for hitting (range or melee). Deleting the DEX adj. macro from the sheet just broke their game. Moreover, the standard rules allow a character to throw his/her melee weapon at the villain's face... in this case, DEX adj. as STR adj. applies. The second problem about removing the Dex adj. macro from the sheet is if a player wrote a personal macro for his/her character that used the DEX adj. ability for melee weapon; they are **ed up because the macro is now broken (the DEX adj. has been removed). For this player, it may not be as a great deal as it seems: he/she just have to rewrite maybe up to 3 or 4 macros but think of a DM who must redo all his/her 400+ monsters... May I suggest you to re-add the DEX adj. for melee weapons: it does not break the game for players that do not use it and still is a huge plus for those that used it for so long now. I understand your thinking in moving the DEX, Weapon Mastery and other adj. to the 'Atk Adj.' field but I always considered this field to be the bonuses/penalties for magical/cursed weapons and not the 'Any purpose miscellanous Adj. field'. May I ask you to re-add the Mastery check box for the same reason noted above? For the specialization thing, I use the Combat &amp;Tactics , Skills &amp; Powers and the Complete Fighters &amp; Priests of the Realm (and the Wizards &amp; Rogues counterpart) so, could you add a new section to the character sheet ? ('Standard' as main section and 'Players Options' as a secondary one? The main section would compute by the standard rules and the PO by the Optional ones. A surely difficult and time-consumming request I know.) Ranged Weapons Same arguments as above. Would you create a whole new section ? ('Standard' as main section and 'Players Options' as secondary?) Good move on the EXP textbox. As already said by Gold, tracking a character's progression is much more efficient now. I personnally used an handout readable by anyone (but not editable) for this purpose. This addition will help a lot for character's tracking progression. Concerning Paul W. request, I am not particuliary annoyed by the ludicrous large table of the Equipment section but I know some of my players use it actively. Maybe moving the actual Equipment tab to an 'Advanced List' section and creating a new main section 'Simplified List' could be a good compromise? The EXP textbox is a very good addition, may I ask to do the same for a 'Personal Notes' textbox? Usually players share information and item gathered during play. But we always have that thief who discovered an useless item at first glance but 'kept' it by intuition. Then, on the next game session which took place 2-3 months afterward, the player forgot where and in which conditions he found the item. A 'Personal Notes' in the character sheet would help him remember about this crucial item. I personnally use two handout for this purpose: a 'Party Notes' editable by everyone and a 'Personal Notes' for each characters (everybody has secrets after all...) Thank you for reading and again, thank you very much for the fixes provided.
1586249629

Edited 1586250138
Peter B.
Sheet Author
Erik H. said: I just found the culprit ! xD Guess I'm busted :S Glad you liked some of the changes. I am very open for making additional changes to fit to everyone's liking. Rogues skills The new Rogue skills table takes much more space than before and I know some of my players will be totally mad when they will see it (due to excessive small screen resolution). In to order to keep the sheet tight, may I ask you to follow your very first intuition and move the new Rogue skills table fields (i.e. Heavy Armor macro and data fields) to a new 'Custom' section? It may help a lot for low-end computers and tablets. Just to understand this completely. Would you like an entirely new section for rogue skills, so the selection in the top would be: "Standard", "S.P/D.S" and "Custom"? I was thinking of shrinking the table size by reducing the size of the input fields a little bit. since they only need to contain 2 numbers, they can be reduced a bit in size. Also if I change the button that says "Leather Armor" to just say "Roll" and the "Heavy Armor" to just say "Armor" (like before) then it would also reduce the size needed. I would be in favor of this solution to start of with, but if that is not an option, then I can look into creating a new section Melee Weapons I remember noticing the weapons rows not to be aligned when I first used the CS. That's a good point they are now in row. But I would have kept the 'Ini' button and not renamed it (again for saving space). I changed the button to say "Initiative", simply because my players kept having a hard time finding the button. I don't think the extra space needed for this is too much of an increase. I did also change the "Atk Adj." field to say "Attack Adj." which also increases the space needed a bit, but again I believe it to be within reason. The main reason behind changing the name of the field was consistency between the Melee and Ranged tables as they were not using the same naming convention, which really bugged me. Summing up all the bonuses and penalties in the final calculation is good and bad news: it clearly make the calculation much more readable but it also prevent the DM from inspecting the calculation. Thus, if a player did not clearly understand the rules, the DM cannot explain it (and it denies the player to learn from his/her mistakes.) Not a game-breaker for me but if you stand your ground may I ask you to add parenthesis around the calculation (like : 20-((18+ ( -8)) and not 20-((18+-8)) which is incorrect from a displaying point a view). I am well aware that removing complexity also removes insight. I summed up the bonuses, simply because the huge amount of calculations done, was almost impossible for both my players and the DM to read, thus instead of checking the math to be correct, we gave up on the math and just hoped the black box (the CS) had calculated correctly.&nbsp; I will of course add the parenthesis around the bonus. I was testing how many parenthesis I could remove, in order to make the readability as high as possible, but I will give that in the case of negative modifiers the current calculations needs the extra parenthesis I rejoin&nbsp; AquaAlex &nbsp;about custom rules, some players use STR adj. for damage only and DEX adj. for hitting (range or melee). Deleting the DEX adj. macro from the sheet just broke their game. Moreover, the standard rules allow a character to throw his/her melee weapon at the villain's face... in this case, DEX adj. as STR adj. applies. The second problem about removing the Dex adj. macro from the sheet is if a player wrote a personal macro for his/her character that used the DEX adj. ability for melee weapon; they are **ed up because the macro is now broken (the DEX adj. has been removed). For this player, it may not be as a great deal as it seems: he/she just have to rewrite maybe up to 3 or 4 macros but think of a DM who must redo all his/her 400+ monsters... May I suggest you to re-add the DEX adj. for melee weapons: it does not break the game for players that do not use it and still is a huge plus for those that used it for so long now. As for Dex on the melee weapons, I removed it because the Dex checkbox was not used in either the hit or the damage calculations rolls . Thus it was a dead checkbox, that only added confusion to each row. As for throwing a melee weapon at an enemy. In this case I have added my weapon to both the melee and the ranged types, thus my Javalin, is added in both the Melee section and the Ranged section. Then I can roll from either section depending on how I am intending to use it. Of course not all players will be adding to the sheet like that. I am aware of that. As for how big of a deal this is for macro users, I definitely see your point. I am rather new to Roll20, and therefore I haven't really been using macros myself yet. I would like to support those who has made many macros, but I find it hard to justify having a checkbox on every player melee weapon row, that does nothing. May I ask you to re-add the Mastery check box for the same reason noted above? For the specialization thing, I use the&nbsp; Combat &amp;Tactics ,&nbsp; Skills &amp; Powers &nbsp;and the&nbsp; Complete Fighters &amp; Priests of the Realm &nbsp;(and the&nbsp; Wizards &amp; Rogues &nbsp;counterpart) so, could you add a new section to the character sheet ? ('Standard' as main section and 'Players Options' as a secondary one? The main section would compute by the standard rules and the PO by the Optional ones. A surely difficult and time-consumming request I know.) Ranged Weapons Same arguments as above. Would you create a whole new section ? ('Standard' as main section and 'Players Options' as secondary?) The removal of Dex from the Ranged damage was done because it added the Dex Hit adj. as damage. This I guess is okay if you want to play like that, but I had some players adding this to their damage, causing them to deal way too high damage. I did educate my players, but as they are not as big of a rules nerd as I am it doesn't seem to stick. Therefore I went with the removal, and thus made it impossible for them to make the mistake in the first place. I would be more than glad to split up the weapon sections into two, a "Standard" and "Players's Options". I would prefer to re-add the Dex and Mastery checkboxes to the Melee and Ranged weapons in the new "Player's Options" section, as I really don't think they have any home in the "Standard" section. I do believe this would still require the rewrite of multiple macros, but for the long term I think this is the best solution. What is your take? Would a new section with more checkboxes be an agreeable compromise? Good move on the EXP textbox. As already said by Gold, tracking a character's progression is much more efficient now. I personnally used an handout readable by anyone (but not editable) for this purpose. This addition will help a lot for character's tracking progression. Thank you for your kind words. It is nice that some of my changes are purely positive :) Concerning Paul W. request, I am not particuliary annoyed by the ludicrous large table of the Equipment section but I know some of my players use it actively. Maybe moving the actual Equipment tab to an 'Advanced List' section and creating a new main section 'Simplified List' could be a good compromise? I have thought about this, but as you, I am also not particularly annoyed by the large table. Therefore this change is not on the top of my list of improvements. I will definitely focus on the Weapons section before going into the Equipment seciton. The EXP textbox is a very good addition, may I ask to do the same for a 'Personal Notes' textbox? Usually players share information and item gathered during play. But we always have that thief who discovered an useless item at first glance but 'kept' it by intuition. Then, on the next game session which took place 2-3 months afterward, the player forgot where and in which conditions he found the item. A 'Personal Notes' in the character sheet would help him remember about this crucial item. I personnally use two handout for this purpose: a 'Party Notes' editable by everyone and a 'Personal Notes' for each characters (everybody has secrets after all...) Sure I can add an extra text box for more notes, however if this box is intended for item notes, why not use the textbox already placed under "Equipment"? If you scroll down under Equipment, then there is a text field labled "Notes". I have personally used this for various items I have picked up, also items that are not necessarily "equipment" but just stuff like, "Funny apple", "magic cookie", "weird black pipe" or stuff like that. If you don't think that "Equipment" is the right place for this, then I feel like this calls for a different section entirely. So that we have 3 categories for items "Equipment" "Currency/Valuables" and "Miscellaneous items" (names not final). As all the different books, heirlooms, and other random / quest items often doesn't fit into either "Equipment" or "Currency" as they cannot be equipped or sold (or at least should not be sold for plot reasons). I await your feed back on this before I begin any development. Thank you for reading and again, thank you very much for the fixes provided. Thank you for taking your time to give me input and feedback. I was very nervous about making these changes because I knew someone would not approve of them. I am very glad that you overall see them as an improvement. I am only making changes in the hope of improving the character sheet for myself and my friends :)
Rogues Skills You are right. At first, I was thinking about a whole new 'Custom' section but on a second thought it may be much more preferable not to add complexity to the sheet and just shrink the table, as you stated. (see edited picture below) Now: Expectation: What have been done: - 'No Armor' and 'Heavy Armor' headers were deleted - buttons label were tweaked (I do not like the 'Roll' (for Leather Armor) and 'Armor' (for Heavy Armor) idea because I find 'Roll' too generic and 'Armor' is confusing because leather armor IS an armor) - total fields for 'No Armor' and 'Heavy Armor' were deleted (in my view the 'Bonus' and 'Penalty' are added or subtracted from the now unique total field. Were those fields essential for your players?) - input fields were reduced (from ~6 to ~3 digits) - Thief skills remaining points field was reduced (from ~6 to ~3 digits) edit: 'Leather Armor', 'No Armor' and 'Heavy Armor' buttons label should be better than 'Leather', 'None' and 'Heavy Armor'. Melee/Ranged Weapons Ok for keeping 'Initiative' label as a replacement for 'Ini'. I totally agree to split the Weapons section in two. 'Standard' and 'Player's Options' with more checkboxes in the latter (DEX checkbox, specialization, mastery, etc...) It is all good to me. From my point of view the DEX checkbox needed to be fixed (i.e. added into calculation). But it is perfectly understandable that you removed it since it was buggy with the macro shortcut-button and moreover, as you stated, had no usage for it. Nevertheless, it is the feature I would like to recover in a very near future. ;-) Personal Notes I was rather thinking of a new text field in the 'Journal' section, under 'Personal Bio' (@{personalbio}). I thought of 'Personal Notes' (@{personalnotes} if not already in use) to allow players to write about anything they find valuable: items, NPC, information or anything of interest to them. In my previous post, the example I chose wasn't good because we spoke about the Equipment section before which introduced misunderstanding. Let's imagine you have a player that played a Gnome Cleric for years. For every member of his/her party (and other IRL players), the character is only a Cleric... But in reality, the character is a Cleric/Thief! What I wanted for this type of character is a field in which the player would record where his/her character had to meet his/her acolyte, what info or item he/she was given and when (and how expensive was this "help"). Another example: maybe one PC or two would write something about *that* Shopkeeper in city of Suzail, to remember to NOT ever come again (probably due to an awful servicing or excessively bad/expensive goods or just because they were suspected of shoplifting...) This field is intended for Role-Play: to allow the players to remember the wanderings of their characters and act accordingly. Yes, I knew about the @{gearnotes} field. I even set up it for a 'Looting/Sacking/Scavenging' macro: when a NPC/Monster is dead, players can hit this macro and then loot or scavenge the corpse. This configuration allow the DM to give the PC only what he/she wants and not what the NPC/Monster hold in its inventory. Miscallenous In the 2ESheet.html file, I found 3 ultra minor errors: line 1491: title="@{repeating_weapons_$X_ dex bonus}" should be: title="@{repeating_weapons_$X_ str bonus}" line 1639: title="Short Range: - 0" should be: title="Short Range: 0" line 1796: th class="sheet-default-header"&gt;Pen e lty&lt;&gt; should be: th class="sheet-default-header"&gt;Pen a lty&lt;&gt; Thanks for reading.
1586421424

Edited 1586425877
Peter B.
Sheet Author
Erik H. said: A lot of stuff... Thank you for your great input and great catch with the miscellaneous errors. You have a really sharp eye! I will get started on working on the new weapon sections, but it will take some time. Once I have something to show, I will ask Gold to host the changes in a custom game, and then I will have him invite you. Then we can both look at how things progress :) And once is all in a place where we like it, I will make a new post like this one explaining all the changes :)
Have just started using this sheet for a new 2e campaign in The Halls of Arden Vul which mean's I am likely to be using it for about... 3 or 4 years. Thanks for the updates. Please try not to break my macros as it's hard enough learning macros for roll20 in a week.
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Peter B.
Sheet Author
Dillon B. said: Have just started using this sheet for a new 2e campaign in The Halls of Arden Vul which mean's I am likely to be using it for about... 3 or 4 years. Thanks for the updates. Please try not to break my macros as it's hard enough learning macros for roll20 in a week. Hello Dillon B. Thank you for letting me know of your concern. With the upcoming changes I have ind mid, I will not be changing any existing functionality. I will only be adding new attributes, so your macros should be safe :)
A new suggestion for the Rogue section (see rendered pictures below): Nothing decided yet, still in discussion. The goal is to keep the sheet tight, readable and easy-to-use (and customizable for homebrew rules). Bard Bard, alternate version Thief Thief, alternate version Keys: The following picture to show the idea behind the new sub-section. Bard example As said in private message, to prevent major impact upon existing games relying on the character sheet v.2.8.53, the alternate version of the suggested character sheet should be chosen: deleting a macro/button from the sheet is not a good idea. In the alternate version, both 'Armor' and 'No Armor' buttons would be hard-coded to use the 'Leather' and 'No Armor' columns respectively (that is, the mecanism remain the same since prior versions, no impact here). The only change with character sheet version 2.8.53 and prior is that the fields are now customizable. The 'Heavy Armor' button, which appeared in v.2.8.53 should be coded to use all the other type of armors. Note: the rendered pictures show armors type and rogues skills as input fields, it is a mistake. It will be headers of course. Any feedback is welcome.
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AquaAlex
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Peter Bjerg M. said: Hello Dillon B. Thank you for letting me know of your concern. With the upcoming changes I have ind mid, I will not be changing any existing functionality. I will only be adding new attributes, so your macros should be safe :) Would be nice if the attribute names where close together between the two sheets (where possible off course) so if people want to swap from simple sheet to this complex sheet most of the stats would just pull across and macros will still work. I realise with the big differences it is not possible for all fields. Just suggesting when choosing names.
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Peter B.
Sheet Author
AquaAlex said: Would be nice if the attribute names where close together between the two sheets (where possible off course) so if people want to swap from simple sheet to this complex sheet most of the stats would just pull across and macros will still work. I realise with the big differences it is not possible for all fields. Just suggesting when choosing names. I get what you are saying. You want it to fuction just like the Attribute page with the 'Standard' and 'Player Option' section. That could be possible, but I would have to change some other things in order to get it to work. Hey&nbsp; Erik H , what do you think of this change? Is it better to keep the section completely appart or should they be more "merged". Weapon type vs Armor type I also thought about the huge Weapon Type vs Armor type selector. It is current copied 4 times, one for each tab of Standard-melee, Standard-range, PO-melee, PO-ranged. I would like to condense this one into a single item, that was consistent across all 4 tabs. My logic is as a player, if you are shooting ranged attacks at an enemy and the enemy comes closer, forcing you to switch from a ranged to a melee weapon. The enemy has not changed his armor, and therefore the same checkbox should be selected when changing weapons. I am not entirely sure if it is even possible, but I would like to explore the possibility if it is something people want :)
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ᐰndreas J.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
FYI, I've recently updated the Roll20 Wiki quite a bit, and also updated info on the two AD&amp;D 2E sheets: Advanced 2nd Edition by Seth Advanced 2nd Edition (Simple Sheet) by Aqua Alex, Elena S., Dylan G., Stephen S. I don't use either sheet, so there could be some things that are still out of date or I might have misplaced, so it be nice if anyone working on the sheet's would take a look at them and improve things that they are lacking.The wiki is a great place to keep the info. Oh, and is it correct that AD&amp;D2E Spell Macros page is for the Simple sheet?
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AquaAlex
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yes the macros and roll templates I think are both for simple page? Peter would be nice if you added same roll-templates to the sheet so macros using the template would work (well for the fields with same names)
Attributes consistency Peter Bjerg M. I may be wrong but I think AquaAlex is talking about to not introduce different attribute names for a similar attribute and keep the same naming pattern between the two character sheets: 'revised' and 'simple'. Fictional example: to hit strength bonus would be '@{strengthbonustohit}' in revised sheet and '@{strengthhit}' in simple sheet. If this difference happens, players will lose the ability to switch from revised and simple sheet between games. As for now, I do not think it happened. Peter does a very good job and follows the same naming pattern. Weapon Type vs Armor Type Totally agree with the reasons you stated Peter. Condensing the selector is a good idea. Wiki page Indeed, AD&amp;D2E Spell Macros page is not fully compatible with the revised sheet (no @{level} or @{class} attributes in the revised sheet). Except those which use such attributes, every spells from the Wizard Spells section down to the Priest Spells section (macro and roll template) is ok and works very well with both revised and simple sheets.
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AquaAlex
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Erik H. said: Attributes consistency Peter Bjerg M. I may be wrong but I think AquaAlex is talking about to not introduce different attribute names for a similar attribute and keep the same naming pattern between the two character sheets: 'revised' and 'simple'. Fictional example: to hit strength bonus would be '@{strengthbonustohit}' in revised sheet and '@{strengthhit}' in simple sheet. If this difference happens, players will lose the ability to switch from revised and simple sheet between games. Yes exactly :) Perfect
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Peter B.
Sheet Author
Erik H. said: Attributes consistency Peter Bjerg M. I may be wrong but I think AquaAlex is talking about to not introduce different attribute names for a similar attribute and keep the same naming pattern between the two character sheets: 'revised' and 'simple'. Fictional example: to hit strength bonus would be '@{strengthbonustohit}' in revised sheet and '@{strengthhit}' in simple sheet. If this difference happens, players will lose the ability to switch from revised and simple sheet between games. As for now, I do not think it happened. Peter does a very good job and follows the same naming pattern. Oh wow. I didn't even though that was possible to change between character sheets in between games. I am very new to Roll20 (started 14 weeks ago or so), so I think I will push this request for later. As for now I will just try and keep focus on the changes I have made until now. About my own suggestion, with the Standard &nbsp;and Player Option &nbsp;tabs sharing attribute names so that the weapons will be the same on either tab, allowing players to switch rule sets on the fly, instead of having to copy paste the information between the tabs. What do you think of this? I believe this to be much closer to the current feature I am working on. Weapon Type vs Armor Type Totally agree with the reasons you stated Peter. Condensing the selector is a good idea. Great. This I will look into in the future, maybe even make it into a Radio button, so that only one armor type can be selected. However I think I will move this to my next update, as my current update, with all of its improvements, is already WAY too big, and should be tested and pushed online before more features are developed :) Wiki page Indeed,&nbsp; AD&amp;D2E Spell Macros &nbsp;page is not fully compatible with the revised sheet (no @{level} or @{class} attributes in the revised sheet). Except those &nbsp;which use such attributes, every spells from the Wizard Spells section down to the Priest Spells section (macro and roll template) is ok and works very well with both revised and simple sheets. RollTemplates and macros I am a complete novice when it comes to roll templates and macros. Just yesterday, I stumbled upon the a section in the HTML called &lt;rolltemplate&gt; and was baffled at what was possible with them. I tried to add run a few of them and search the forums for any explanation and found them interesting. I also tried to figure out where the "code", such as '#rollTotal()': {{#rollTotal() saveroll savetarget}} for the different methods were stored, but was unable to find it. Based on all of this, I will say that I would like to help update the sheet and the wiki with roll templates and macros, but as my understanding is currently limited, I feel poorly equipped to take on this task. Therefore I will focus on completing the current update with the weapon section and additional styling and wait with the roll templates. I hope you understand :)
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Peter Bjerg M. said: Oh wow. I didn't even though that was possible to change between character sheets in between games. I am very new to Roll20 (started 14 weeks ago or so), so I think I will push this request for later. As for now I will just try and keep focus on the changes I have made until now. About my own suggestion, with the Standard &nbsp;and Player Option &nbsp;tabs sharing attribute names so that the weapons will be the same on either tab, allowing players to switch rule sets on the fly, instead of having to copy paste the information between the tabs. What do you think of this? I believe this to be much closer to the current feature I am working on. It makes sense. You have my vote Peter. Peter Bjerg M. said: RollTemplates and macros I am a complete novice when it comes to roll templates and macros. Just yesterday, I stumbled upon the a section in the HTML called &lt;rolltemplate&gt; and was baffled at what was possible with them. I tried to add run a few of them and search the forums for any explanation and found them interesting. I also tried to figure out where the "code", such as '#rollTotal()': {{#rollTotal() saveroll savetarget}} for the different methods were stored, but was unable to find it. Since it is a helper function, I think it is stored server side?
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Yeah the roll template helper functions are all on Roll20's end. You can see the list of them in the wiki: <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Roll_Templates#Helper_Functions" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Roll_Templates#Helper_Functions</a>
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Peter B.
Sheet Author
Rabulias said: Yeah the roll template helper functions are all on Roll20's end. You can see the list of them in the wiki: <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Roll_Templates#Helper_Functions" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Roll_Templates#Helper_Functions</a> Thanks man! I will look into it when I have the time :)