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[GURP sheet] GURPS Style #2

1401896499
G.
Sheet Author
Hello, My submission just got accepted recently and while it's, to me, finished and only requires a little polish here and there, I'm opening this thread if you have comments and feedback (especially negative!), things I missed or things that are not working properly. As a note, you'll find more details about the sheet here: GURPS Style 2 . Thanks in advance and hopefully between the two sheets available, GURPS players will find what they're looking for. ++ G.
Hey this looks great! A few things: The "Limb" and "1/3" values (which I assume are for reference to check when a limb is crippled or when you are below 1/3 HP) update based on Current HP? Is this intended? It would be nice if the stat block had FP across from HT. When filling out stat blocks this is a bit confusing. Rolling attack skill and damage as part of the same roll seems like it might be a problem. If a player knows that they damage roll was very high, they are likely to retreat, throw extra effort, or some other thing in order to avoid, and likewise not bother with these things if the damage is low. I'll keep playing with it. Great work!
1401933902

Edited 1401935466
Devindra P.
Sheet Author
Cool, it looks really nice; a lot more spread out than the sheet I made. Tabs are a good idea, I've been meaning to incorporate them into the other sheet as well. There were a few fields that I wasn't sure the purpose of from looking at the screenshots, I'm curious what the purpose of them are, "Limb" "1/3" "Combat Move" What's the table underneath the DR table? "KO" What is the CP column for skills? There are a lot of ideas in this sheet that I think are really neat, the emote fields, the quick inventory, and the contact table. Especially the injury tracking, that would no doubt be very useful. I always neglect using injuries myself. Out of curiosity, I noticed in your readme that you are planning to add "Add field for maneuvers asking for it such as Ready, Change Posture, etc". What's that? One suggestion I have is that your sheet feels very geared towards a sort of dungeoneering fantasy GURPS. You should consider making the location dropdown, and currency fields on the Inventory page more generic. Great work, I'll definitely take some inspiration in improving the other GURPS sheet. Though personally I think we shoulda collaborated instead ;)
1401939164
G.
Sheet Author
Joseph M. said: The "Limb" and "1/3" values (which I assume are for reference to check when a limb is crippled or when you are below 1/3 HP) update based on Current HP? Is this intended? Glad you like it so far and thanks for the feedback. Good catch on that, fix will be included in next update. Joseph M. said: It would be nice if the stat block had FP across from HT. When filling out stat blocks this is a bit confusing. Might move HP and FP down a bit, upping Will and Per above, not sure. These are rarely updated after you fill them all in so not a big deal I think. Joseph M. said: Rolling attack skill and damage as part of the same roll seems like it might be a problem. If a player knows that they damage roll was very high, they are likely to retreat, throw extra effort, or some other thing in order to avoid, and likewise not bother with these things if the damage is low. Very good point though macros on the sheet are more for PCs (custom macros for NPCs is faster to use for GM I think), so unless they try to hit each other, shouldn't come up. That said, I'll see if I can squeeze something in there to solve that. Devindra P. said: Cool, it looks really nice; a lot more spread out than the sheet I made. Tabs are a good idea, I've been meaning to incorporate them into the other sheet as well. Thanks! And yea, that's why I started making my own in the first place, scrolling up and down all the time didn't make much sense to me. Code for them came from this forum actually, and that helped a lot. Devindra P. said: There were a few fields that I wasn't sure the purpose of from looking at the screenshots, I'm curious what the purpose of them are, "Limb" "1/3" "Combat Move" What's the table underneath the DR table? "KO" What is the CP column for skills? Limb & 1/3 are for quick reference (much like encumbrance, lifting max and many other fields) during play and because I had a bit of empty space here and there. This way, players can see immediately what's their 1/2 and 1/3 HP values and whatnot. Consider them space fillers or something :) Combat Move is the auto calculated value for your Basic Move with the selected "Combat Load-Out" encumbrance value included. Once again, for quick reference. Table underneath DR is actually a gaming help kit for quick calculation of Actual Damage Taken. Put in the Base Damage value of the blow you just received, the DR of the body party hit, specify if it's in the vitals or neck if needed, then the Damage type and press the Macro button. This will send YOU (and only you, to prevent spamming other players) the Actual damage you took, all DR and wounding modifiers included. "KO" is your HT check for Knockdown / Consciousness checks basically. Much like the "Death check" field, used for quick access and reference since it's meant to be based off HT, with advantages/disadvantages included already, so you don't have to remember about them all the time during play. The CP column can have many application during a given session, and are meant to be unchecked every new session but you can do whatever with them. The core idea was to indicate "this skill has been use to great effect during the session and gained a CP from that" and keep track of it. Other uses can be agreed upon by players and GM. It takes barely any space so if you don't use it, ignoring it is easy enough. Devindra P. said: Out of curiosity, I noticed in your readme that you are planning to add "Add field for maneuvers asking for it such as Ready, Change Posture, etc" Also, what is "Text-only Roll20". Is that a feature of some kind? I'd like to use it if so. Or are you just referring to people not using the graphical part. By text only I mean that no voice communication is used whatsoever, only in-game (roll20) text chat (with or without visual graphics, that's not related whatsoever). Many sheets out there are totally incompatible with this play style and ignore proper formatting, 100% inline rolls, in character emotes and the like. Since I play 100% text only (never using any voice comm whatsoever), that's why I decided to make my own sheets in the first place. The "Maneuver" macro is meant to allow for clean and formatted Maneuver declaration at the beginning of your turn during combat, then you resolve it. However, for some Maneuvers, additional information is required or the purpose of the declaration is lost. By adding a text field just below, it'll allow you to, for example, put in "broadsword" or "arrow" or "spell cast" or "kneeling" and whatnot in there, which will be automatically included in the Maneuver declaration macro. Devindra P. said: One suggestion I have is that your sheet feels very geared towards a sort of dungeoneering fantasy GURPS. You should consider making the location dropdown, and currency fields on the Inventory page more generic. That's true. As I said, at first, the idea was to make my own sheet the way I wanted it, then, figured might as well propose it. I'm not sure what you mean by "location dropdown", it's the default humanoid one as far as I know. I'll split hands into right and left but if you aiming at say a Wing or 3rd head or Tail, just use the "Other" text box to specific it. I'll add a "n/a" or "other" option in the location select maybe, just for that. As for coin, Silver is the Silver Dollar ($) as default in GURPS so most GURPS systems can just use that field. Otherwise, players and GM can easily agree upon what gold, copper and whatnot represent, or just keep track of all coins via Quick inventory. Devindra P. said: Just so you know, unfortunately Roll20 has said that they want one definitive sheet for each system. Probably would have been better to combine our efforts and made the single one a lot better, but oh well. Only one of the sheets will be available to non-Mentors, but of course, Mentors can always manually copy in the code from the repository into their campaign. Didn't know that no, didn't think about it either to be honest. As said, the sheet was for me first, then figured I might as well upload it because I kinda liked it and thought others might as well. No idea how roll20 will make the choice and not really concerned about it either. For most people out there playing GURPS, I'm sure either of the sheets will work just fine overall and if not, people can still use macros and the old system. Since this is GURPS and the core design choices are different, maybe roll20 will make an exception (CP tracking, no CP tracking) or maybe someone else will just make yet another sheet much better than anything we could make. It's still very early after the update, we'll see how all that goes in the week and months to come. Anyway, thanks for the feedback, keep them coming! I'll push some changes later this week. ++ G.
"you mean by "location dropdown", it's the default humanoid one as far as I know I meant the potion belt. You could just make it a text field. Devindra P. said: Just so you know, unfortunately Roll20 has said that they want one definitive sheet for each system. Probably would have been better to combine our efforts and made the single one a lot better, but oh well. Only one of the sheets will be available to non-Mentors, but of course, Mentors can always manually copy in the code from the repository into their campaign. Actually, this was my mistake, I looked after I made that post at their approved.yaml file, and it looks like they did actually approve your sheet separately from the existing GURPS sheet. Maybe I misunderstood their stance. I edited by response, but I guess you didn't see.
1402066343

Edited 1402066352
G.
Sheet Author
06/06/2014 UPDATE: Fixed 1/2 and 1/3 HP calculation so that it's based off Max HP instead of Current HP. Split the Attack macro into an Attack (A) and a Damage (D) macros. Added custom emote prompt for Active Defenses, Attacks, Consumables and Spell macros. For each of these, there will be an auto-fill in Default value as well (so you can just accept it as is, or put your own situational emote if you want). Added an input text field below the Maneuver Declaration button. This is meant to specify what you actually do when choosing Maneuvers like Ready, Concentrate, Wait and Change Posture. For other Maneuvers, just leave it blank. Changed "location" in inventory to a text field for wider compatibility. Changed TABINDEX across the board so that it'll ignore buttons and macros. You can now press TAB for quick data input usually. Fixed a couple Wounding Modifiers errors in the Damage Taken Calculator (below Armor DR panel) Changed weapon "type" to use a select list instead of text for ease of use and consistent formatting. Re-organised and Added entries for many select lists to offer more options and clarity. Slight improvements in layout in many places. Added and updated many tool-tips (should appear at the top right corner of the sheet usually.) Known Issues: If you scroll down, tool-tips can go off-screen. If you change the character name, it'll change the name of the character sheet properly but not of the token attached to it. To solve this, re-link the token and the sheet after name change. Coming up next: GM only tab for NPC statblock within the sheet. (sneak peek here ) Link PARRY fields with weapons within the weapon definition fieldset. This will allow for any number of parry value linked to specific melee weapons. Tool-tip revamp Code cleanup and commenting. Thanks again for the feedback, keep it coming. ++ G.
1402068246
G.
Sheet Author
And here is a page referencing most useful commands available for nested macros as well as repeating variables if you want to make Action tokens or generic macros that would work properly with the Sheet. It's a work in progress but should be up to date though I'm in-between two version in which there is a lot of polish and cleaning up so some might only be available in next update. Nested commands & Variables
I checked this sheet out and it has some cool ideas. I'm getting quite a few display issues (things overlaying others or not displaying well) and some minor usability issues (The damage macro roll button is underneath the options and overlays injuries a bit, hard to find until I figured out to hit the black thing). I'm loving the tabs and some of the additional character information on the sheet. Also there are some really cool macros there. A GM NPC statblock is a great idea, I'm eager to see what you come up with. I actually used your GURPS macro suggestions to get me started in my own campaign. Overall, I think I'm going to be using the Devindra's since the auto calc works well and the visual layout is a bit more appealing/easier/quicker to read for the group I'm with which is important. By the time are campaign gets up and rolling switching would be nigh impossible. You both have really great ideas and strengths in such different areas. I don't know how either of you feel about it but joining forces and working with each other (even if on one another's different layouts, I love the idea of 2 choices of aesthetic to suit different groups) but I as a player would love to see the brain baby of your two skill sets.
1402236678

Edited 1402237183
G.
Sheet Author
Hey, thanks for the feedback. The sheet's design for Chrome latest version but with the nightmare that is CSS, I'm not surprised there are issues with other browsers. Chrome being the most widely used browser on the planet, that's my main focus really. It works exactly the same as far as could tell on Opera, latest version and feels actually faster. I've also tested quickly with the latest version of Firefox and while I don't know why anyone would be crazy enough to use that browser on roll20, it works well enough and apart from the tabs that are all screwed up, everything seemed in the right place and working. For the rest of the browsers (IE, etc), I don't really care, sorry :/ All tests have been done on PC windows 7 as well, I have no idea how iOS and other systems handle this stuff. If there are easy CSS fixes, I'm taking, but otherwise, well, tough :) As for sheets, to be honest, it's fundamentally a philosophical difference I think. My base assumption is that people WILL keep their characters on paper/digital sheets/software apart from roll20 as a mean to track long term changes, and therefore, the roll20 sheet needs what's core to actually play. That's why I didn't even include Advantages/Disadvantages and the Various panel at first, only adding them later on when I pushed publicly and why it's designed the way it is, with specific chat log formatting, maneuver declarations, tabs layout, consumable and spell macros with emote, etc. Overall, the "sheet" is not meant to be a "record sheet", but an interface for players when playing GURPS on roll20, and be 100% compatible with text only roll20 sessions (the way I play, no voice com whatsoever). I really have no idea why anyone would want CPs auto calcs on a roll20 sheet and trying to reproduce something like GCA on roll20 is just a waste of time in my opinion. While I don't mind collaboration in theory, I just don't understand the core idea behind this so in many ways, each sheet can't contribute much to the other really. That said, to each his own and I think it's good to have two separate designs available but I also think that they are just fundamentally incompatible, which I don't really see as an issue personally, apart from users being unable to switch easily from one to the others, but that's just the way it is. Edit: that's just the way it is because we simply do not handle and store data in the same way. Devindra's sheet stores CPs and derives the stats from that, I store the stats directly, ignoring any notion of cost. That core difference simply makes both sheets totally incompatible. As a side note, I made a pull request about the latest core changes so it should go live today or tomorrow depending on how the admins handle these. After that, it'll be mainly light tuning here and there.
Purely for the sake of understanding; People track their sheets completely on paper, so it isn't too much of a stretch to do it in Roll20. It may not have the level of automation that GCA or GCS have, but it does have some benefits over paper. Alternatively some people just prefer to have all their campaign data in one program (Roll20). Personally, some of my players are new and I want to get them a bit more involved in understanding their sheet, this is a more... intermediate way for me to do it rather than getting them to buy GCA and then having to manage all the character sheets where the master copy is on different computers. But even if I was planning to use an external program for making characters for my campaigns, I would still would have designed the sheet with CP tracking fields, because it's designed for general use, so it should have at least all the functionality of a paper sheet. This all being said, there are definitely a lot of concepts that are used in this sheet that would work well in the other sheet. In fact I've also pushed an update to the devs that includes some features I took from here (Tabs, Quick Inventory, Energy Reserve, Active Defense table, Area DR). ---- The reason for those issues that Tinker mentioned about overlapping might be due to him making the sheet window smaller (your sheet has less space so the browser tries to wrap elements downwards). That's why on the other sheet I used a lot of compact boxes and tables, so that I could compress them and maintain the document's flow when the window is small. If that is the problem then you could rework your layout to be "responsive" (as they call it), or if you don't want to do that, wrap the entire sheet in a <div> and give that div the css property "min-width", where that value is the minimum size at which your sheet looks good.
1402239154

Edited 1402239337
G.
Sheet Author
Hey Devindra, I only see limitations by porting it over roll20 really, especially since compared to paper and GCA, users cannot customize anything (ie: house rules for cost of abilities, etc). But like I said, It's a core difference and while I don't understand the need for it, I accept that it exists and I'm totally cool with it :) For layout and whatnot, I totally agree and I've already taken a couple of your stuff over that I had completely missed (languages and cultural stuff are in the latest push for example) but that's fluff really, not core. Glad you switching to tabs though, really think it's the way to go, especially when so many use widescreens and whatnot. Scrolling up and down is so...20th century! :) As for the CSS issues, I never really touched CSS before last sunday so yea, probably lots of core problems since I learned as I went. Code clean up is part of my next update, I just didn't want to do that until I had everything I wanted layed out proper. It's odd that some elements would overlap however since the width is fixed per tab already and nothing should wrap. I tried shrinking and resizing the sheet on various browsers and just cant seem to reproduce the issue with overlapping that was mentioned. I'll keep checking, probably some silly thing somewhere where I screwed up. I'm in the polish phase anyway so that's part of it I guess. Can't wait to see your latest push and what crazy formulas you guys came up with this time :)
Just to help your bug squashing. I'm on Chrome, windows 8 (blech), and I resized the character screen from very tiny to very large seeing if there was a sweet spot but it didn't affect the layout in any meaningful way. I'm especially lazy right now but if it persists after the next update I'll send you a screen cap so that you can get a frame of reference for what it's doing :)
1402245749
G.
Sheet Author
Sounds good, thanks a lot :)
1402389277
G.
Sheet Author
Meh, I screwed up the json validation or something so pull request was refused. Latest update should be up later today or tomorrow.
I don't know if that's possible, but can't be there a way to translate GCS sheets into these sheets not by hand? Also, condition buttons would be nice.
1402422858

Edited 1402423002
Devindra P.
Sheet Author
I think it would be technically possible to create a script that reads your GCS file (which I believe are written in XML), and then writes it into your browser, so long as you had the character sheet open. But... I think it would be tricky, and bug prone. Personally I don't have any experience with that, or the time to investigate the possibility (but my hunch is that it'd be quite a bit of work). Though one thing that'd be pretty cool is if Roll20 defined an XML or JSON syntax that we could write character sheets in, and then upload to Roll20, automatically populating the Roll20 character sheet. Then it'd be a lot easier for people to create a program that converts sheets from GCA/GCS/Whatever into this Roll20 format. What sort of condition buttons? Like checkboxes for Reeling and Shock?
1402425127
G.
Sheet Author
There's indeed probably a way to do something like that via API or something, think some guys were working on an import script for another system at some point. Not something I'll be looking into either, and don't see much point anyway for players (not like they making PCs every day really). For GMs, it was more a way to batch import lots of monsters/npcs stats but once again, can't be bothered and don't feel it's really needed either. For conditions buttons (I imagine you mean what Devindra's saying, for shock, stunned, etc), I thought about it and played with it a bit but removed it for now because it requires an API script to take something like this from a sheet, and transfer it onto the board/tokens into status icons, and I don't really want to go that route. The way I see, most people will simply use token status icons to keep track of 2+ seconds effects, and since the sheet doesn't auto-calculate any modifier to Base Skills, it'd just be for reference, which I feel the status icon do well enough already. That said, since I do use other things as reference on the sheet (maneuvers, combat options, AD options, etc), and display these via the macros, it would indeed kinda make sense to have these as well and totally ignore the token status icons. For now, I'm thinking of having maybe a very quick to use tracker for some shorter effects (Shock, Stunned and the like), something for Longer Lasting effects (Spells, Poisons, etc) as well as a Current Posture Tracker (Face down, Face up,Crawling, Kneeling, Crouching, etc). Not sure how yet though and probably won't be before July now, but that's something I can indeed see as useful for text-only play, while remaining completely optional, like the entire declaration system.
>because it requires an API script to take something like this from a sheet, and transfer it onto the board/tokens into status icons I don't quite follow you, I think. I am interested in buttons like Reeling, Shock, Blinded and so, pushing them gives automatic minuses to attributes\skills\active defences. That would remove pain to keep track of status influence on character performance. >ince the sheet doesn't auto-calculate any modifier to Base Skills That's sad.
1402495921

Edited 1402497227
G.
Sheet Author
That's actually because trying to do otherwise is a lost cause before you even start and while it's easier via voice, it's a nightmare on text-only. I've checked logs from play sessions and other things related, and, especially during combat, there are nearly always errors in modifier calculation because someone missed this, or that, or forgot that spell was still active, or thought this effect was still ok, but it's not, etc. Via voice this creates 1) longer time before rolling to make sure you list everything properly, 2) longer time to analyze what was actually rolled to make sure it's correct and 3) a series of back and forth between players and GM as soon as there's a mistake somewhere. Via text, it's that x100. By only going via Base Skill (and simply displaying, as an option, the possible modifiers and situations that should apply), it allows you to just "shout & roll", then only start sorting out modifiers IF the roll in itself looks like a "plausible success". For example, if you have a Base Skill of 12, and you roll a 14, most of the time you can just immediately go "ok I failed", or if you rolled a 6, you could go "ok done!" and the whole process took 2 seconds. Only If you roll something like an 11 or somewhere close you actually start sorting things out. It's more "efficient" to go against Base Skill in my opinion than any other way, including margin scripts and whatnot. As for the status tracker, yea, as said, I'll look into it once I come back early July. edited: format and clarification.
Really do love your character sheet, however I wanted to know if it is possible to create a GURPS 3E Version, some people still do play with it for some reason or another.
Very nice character sheet but it seems that load calculation for MED, HVY and ULTRA are basic lift x4, x8, x16 while per rules should be x3, x6 and x10
Nice Sheet! I'm using it for my next campaign. One question: what are the check boxes in the inventory for?