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Level Adjustment and Monster Races

I was asked why I don't have more racial hit dice for monsters out of Savage Species, or why I do not allow players to "buy off" level adjustments. The answer is:&nbsp; What would they realistically "buy off" their level adjustments with that would be fair?&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm</a> That is a popular way of buying off a character's level adjustment.&nbsp; If you notice, the player is literally using experience points to do it over an extended time.&nbsp; In other words, they are using the experience needed to balance the level adjustment, but just not all at once, but over an extended period.&nbsp; &nbsp; To me, that is a very convoluted way to do so.&nbsp; &nbsp;Also, it is allowing the character to get a very powerful race at 1st level and then pay off the benefits of it later.&nbsp; So, at lower levels they way over powered and they slowly pay back the experience points.&nbsp; I feel that the way that Savage Species has designed is a more balanced system, it makes the powerful race slowly grow into it its full mature powerful form over a period of time.&nbsp; &nbsp;So, you are buying off your level adjustment, just over a period of levels starting at first.&nbsp; &nbsp;Then again, for higher level games, such as this one, all that is needed is to take the hit die of the creature and add its level adjustment and the starting level for the character is found.&nbsp; &nbsp; How balanced is this?&nbsp; &nbsp;Well, let's find out.&nbsp; &nbsp;Without any magic items(because bother characters would have the same starting gold and hence could replicate such), I am going to compare 2 races.&nbsp; I will go basic an 8th level fighter vs a Minotaur.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Why a fighter and Minotaur?&nbsp; A Minotaur has a level adjustment of 2 and thus with its 6 hit dice is the equivalent of an 8th level character.&nbsp; Why did I choose a fighter?&nbsp; &nbsp;Well, I could have chosen a cleric, mage, rogue, ranger or just about anything.&nbsp; But for the sake of HP, base attack bonus, saving throws, and abilities, a fighter tends to be more of an even match.&nbsp; A mage for example would have a lot of spell levels, but hardly any experience in this experiment and its overall saving throws would suck.&nbsp; &nbsp; For the first comparison.&nbsp; I will use the standard average array of a 10 or average in every stat, with just a +2 adjustment to one stat for the human because he is 8th level.&nbsp; &nbsp;I am also factoring their strength into their BAB Human Fighter 8th level:&nbsp; &nbsp;Str 12 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 10 Wis 10 Chr 10&nbsp; Saving throws: Fort +6 Ref: +2 Will: +2&nbsp; &nbsp;BAB: 9/4&nbsp; &nbsp;Grapple 9Total number of feats: 7 HP: 80 Minotaur:&nbsp; &nbsp;Str 18 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 7 Wis 10 Chr 8&nbsp; &nbsp;Saving Throws:&nbsp; Fort:&nbsp; 4 Ref:&nbsp; &nbsp;5&nbsp; Will:&nbsp; 5 BAB: 10/5&nbsp; Grapple 14 Total number of feats: 3 HP 76&nbsp; Plus the following abilities:&nbsp; &nbsp;Dark Vision 60'&nbsp; +5 natural armor, keen senses (+4), natural cunning (cannot become lost, track enemies, can not be flat footed, immune to maze spells), Scent 30', large size with a 10' reach, gore 1d8&nbsp; charge damage: 4d6 I would say that is a fair fight, but here let us do it with the 4d6 drop the lowest die and also a free 18 that I giving in this game.&nbsp; &nbsp;Again, the human will have a 2 adjustment to its stat due to level and the Minotaur a +1 based on its hit dice.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;The average for such is a 14 in stats. Human Fighter 8th level:&nbsp; &nbsp;Str 18 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 14 Chr 14&nbsp; Saving throws: Fort +8 Ref: +4 Will: +4&nbsp; &nbsp;BAB: 12/7 Grapple 12&nbsp; &nbsp;Total number of feats: 7 HP:96 Minotaur:&nbsp; &nbsp;Str 26 Dex 14 Con 18 Int 11 Wis 14 Chr 12&nbsp; &nbsp;Saving Throws:&nbsp; Fort:&nbsp; 6 Ref:&nbsp; &nbsp;7&nbsp; Will:&nbsp; 7 BAB: 14/9 Grapple 18 Total number of feats: 3 HP 88 Plus the following abilities:&nbsp; &nbsp;Dark Vision 60'&nbsp; +5 natural armor, keen senses (+4), natural cunning (cannot become lost, track enemies, can not be flat footed, immune to maze spells), Scent 30', large size with a 10' reach, gore 1d8&nbsp; Charge damage 4d6 If you notice, giving both characters the same array, the Minotaur has exactly basically the same amount of hit points at max as a fighter,&nbsp; a higher base to hit, has a starting 14 compared to the human at 12, has enough abilities to combat the difference in feats.&nbsp; &nbsp;The armor class difference between them places the fighter at a disadvantage.&nbsp; &nbsp; If both characters wore the exact same armor, the Minotaur would have an AC 5 points higher.&nbsp; &nbsp; So, let us for argument's sake say that they are both wearing chain-mail armor and we will say the human is using a large shield, while the Minotaur is not.&nbsp; &nbsp; The human's AC 19, Minotaur's AC 21.&nbsp; &nbsp;Give the human a Longsword, with Weapon Focus and make the weapon at least masterwork.&nbsp; &nbsp; Human would need to roll a 7 and a 12 to hit the Minotaur.&nbsp; The Minotaur being able to have the same feat of Weapon focus and a masterwork weapon?&nbsp; &nbsp;3 and 8.&nbsp; &nbsp; Damage wise?&nbsp; &nbsp;Let's give the human weapon Specialization.&nbsp; &nbsp;He would do 1d8 + 6, the Minotaur?&nbsp; &nbsp;Using a large size great-Axe?&nbsp; &nbsp;3d6+12. Its minimum damage is more than&nbsp; the human's max damage.&nbsp; So, the question was why don't I use another method to "balance the monster classes", my answer?&nbsp; Where is the imbalance?&nbsp; &nbsp;With everything equal, giving each character an equal amount of gold, where is the imbalance?&nbsp; &nbsp;The above match up would be very fair indeed.&nbsp; The fighter would have 4 more feats, but the Minotaur's natural higher AC, their 10' reach, their ability to use larger weapons, higher to hit ratio, better overall saving throws, dark vision, can not be flat footed, and scent, the Minotaur would in a straight fight have more than a fair chance.&nbsp; &nbsp; If sometime in the future a comparison can be shown to me that is not balanced, I will address it then on a one to one basis.&nbsp; &nbsp;But, for a level 2 adjustment, a Minotaur is a very fair trade.&nbsp; &nbsp;
Level adjustment is there for a reason. keeps monstrous races from being far to OP
I agree.&nbsp; &nbsp;But, also you have to think that when we talk LA and Cr it is two different animals.&nbsp; &nbsp;This character as shown above is a fair one on one fight.&nbsp; But, if we take the Minotaur and think of it as a character, then it becomes a CR 4.&nbsp; Which means that 4 4th level characters should be able to take it down.&nbsp; Is that a fair fight still?&nbsp; It is a close hard fight.&nbsp; If the Minotaur gets to go first and charge with its 4d6 charge it could take out A lot of character classes with a good roll.&nbsp; The Minotaur on average on a charge will do 14 + strength bonus which is around 4 to 8 points.&nbsp; &nbsp; (I averaged what 4d6 turns out to be.&nbsp; 1d6 average is 3.5.&nbsp; So, 4 x 3.5 = 14)&nbsp; &nbsp;The average character non fighter type 4th level character would be taken down with one hit.&nbsp; &nbsp;(Spell caster 10 hp, Rogues 14 hp, and&nbsp; divine casters 18 hp).&nbsp; &nbsp; The Level Adjustment is also there to pay off the benefits of the raise.&nbsp; &nbsp;That is why all the races out of PHB do not have a level adjustment, they do not have any really powerful buffs.&nbsp; &nbsp;A Tiefling and Assimar both have a +1 level adjustment because of all their race bonuses.&nbsp; &nbsp;
right, not all races need LA or even high ones. its there to keep stronger races balanced when playing as a PC