Still no Player Token lock after 8+ years

Please tell me i'm missing something. Surely after finding over 20 forums on the subject, going back as far as 8 years, roll20 is not still claiming that "not enough people want this feature"? Yes, many people state things like "just talk to your players" or "get a new group". Personally I don't give up on people that quick and I understand that attention span and understanding of software varies from person to person. I do not however agree that there is any legitimately stated excuse for leaving this feature out after so many years. "The Aaron" has kindly made a script to help with this. It moves tokens back to where they were if moved incorrectly.. The problem is, he is apparently limited to this function, meaning players can continually get a glimpse of unexplored areas. I applaud his efforts, and I can see that his mod has been downloaded thousands of times over 5 or 6 years now..... So why are the devs still claiming no one wants this feature? I don't want to assume that they are using these custom api's that fix software design failures, to force people in to pro membership. I also don't want to assume that they simply can't figure it out and aren't being honest with their customers. Seriously though? I can't simply turn player token movement off while still allowing them to see their surroundings? I have to purchase the next step up in membership (even though im already paying a membership) in order to use an api that roll20 did no work on, in order to have a basic feature? Sounds to me like The Aaron should be getting all of those extra funds. I'll have to seriously think about weather or not this company deserves another dime.

I don't think any other VTT offers such a feature either (but I do not claim expert knowledge on this). As a free workaround, you can take a screenshot of the map (or use some other illustration) and put it in a handout to show the players while you describe what they see before letting them loose on the true map.

Rabulias said: I don't think any other VTT offers such a feature either (but I do not claim expert knowledge on this). As a free workaround, you can take a screenshot of the map (or use some other illustration) and put it in a handout to show the players while you describe what they see before letting them loose on the true map. From the Foundry Tutorial:  When you first load into a World, the game starts as Paused. This prevents players from immediately moving their Tokens. You can pause or un-pause the session at any time by pressing the spacebar. ... Fantasy Grounds has this feature too, it turns out.

Make a suggestion. If enough people want it, it will remain active and you can lobby for it.

keithcurtis said: Make a suggestion. If enough people want it, it will remain active and you can lobby for it. Then my suggestion would be that this process is not working for you. If I combine all of the threads that have been posted about this issue, all of the requests for this feature, all of the reports of switching to another application in order to get it and all of the custom api downloads/workarounds; there are litterally hundreds of times as many requests as necisary. Unfortunately many of said "request" threads on the roll20 community were locked before they hit 10 responses (with a statement of "this suggestion did not meet the minimum of 10 responses")  Sorry, but this is akin to looking at cable numbers to tell what tv shows people watch, even though you and 90% of the world watch netflix. You have the same internet access i do, this is basic You need to look at the information as a whole. People who left for another product are not all letting you know on your forum. Meanwhile more then enough people over all, have pushed for this basic feature, for more then 8 years. Its a game breaking issue for new groups. Given the world today, families with kids want to use this application. Imight be able to trust a friend not to touch things when i say stop, but who knows with kids. I just think you're missing out on a large player base, for the sake of a relatively simple fix. 

Dick K. said: Rabulias said: I don't think any other VTT offers such a feature either (but I do not claim expert knowledge on this). As a free workaround, you can take a screenshot of the map (or use some other illustration) and put it in a handout to show the players while you describe what they see before letting them loose on the true map. From the Foundry Tutorial:  When you first load into a World, the game starts as Paused. This prevents players from immediately moving their Tokens. You can pause or un-pause the session at any time by pressing the spacebar. ... Fantasy Grounds has this feature too, it turns out. Exactly. So far it is THE most common reason i've heard for people switching applications, and thats just rediculous. 

Rabulias said: I don't think any other VTT offers such a feature either (but I do not claim expert knowledge on this). As a free workaround, you can take a screenshot of the map (or use some other illustration) and put it in a handout to show the players while you describe what they see before letting them loose on the true map. Not a bad suggestion, but my reason for wanting a "pause" is so that i can tell players what they just ran in to. So id need a new picture of the current situation for every pause...  On inspection it seems all other relavent applications have this feature. Including many that i have not put money in to expecting a finished product. 

JaBlam said: keithcurtis said: Make a suggestion. If enough people want it, it will remain active and you can lobby for it. Then my suggestion would be that this process is not working for you. If I combine all of the threads that have been posted about this issue, all of the requests for this feature, all of the reports of switching to another application in order to get it and all of the custom api downloads/workarounds; there are litterally hundreds of times as many requests as necisary. Unfortunately many of said "request" threads on the roll20 community were locked before they hit 10 responses (with a statement of "this suggestion did not meet the minimum of 10 responses")  Sorry, but this is akin to looking at cable numbers to tell what tv shows people watch, even though you and 90% of the world watch netflix. You have the same internet access i do, this is basic You need to look at the information as a whole. People who left for another product are not all letting you know on your forum. Meanwhile more then enough people over all, have pushed for this basic feature, for more then 8 years. Its a game breaking issue for new groups. Given the world today, families with kids want to use this application. Imight be able to trust a friend not to touch things when i say stop, but who knows with kids. I just think you're missing out on a large player base, for the sake of a relatively simple fix.  I don't represent Roll20. I do some contract work for them on module conversion. All I can say is that the forums have been around and busy for years. If you pick any issue, you can find reports and requests. I'm on here every day, sometimes for hours, usually concentrating on bug reports and help requests. I just don't see a hue and cry for this feature. Occasional requests, yes, but far more for many, many other features. The simple fact is, that if a suggestion can't garner 10, just 10, votes in a reasonable amount of time, there is no mandate.

keithcurtis said:  The simple fact is, that if a suggestion can't garner 10, just 10, votes in a reasonable amount of time, there is no mandate. So this just looks like a marketing issue. Make your suggestion and then go on advertising it. Write to everybody who ever wanted that feature and is still here.

Just FYI. This is the first time I’m seeing a request for this feature so I wouldn’t say it’s a feature people are clamoring for. Maybe you can get enough momentum on the suggestion forum so that Roll20 can’t ignore it. Otherwise, I don’t know that it helps making your case on the specific use forum- esp since the Roll20 team isn’t looking for suggested features here. There’s a lot of features people wish Roll20 had that it doesn’t and they’re all competing for attention. Having said that, if you make a suggestion thread I’d probably upvote it.  It’s not a must-have for me but it would come in handy once in a while. 

A "Splash Screen" works for in between games, you could just pull the ribbon even in game, if this is happening while playing, the "get a new group" or "up your  game" might well apply. As the company has grown they have, as is normal, become less and less responsive to individuals. There was a time when Riley must have slept with a laptop and responded to bugs in real time. That would be impossible now, given the number of users. The suggestions forum seems to be more to placate than to actually gather information.

There's an API script that already handles this functionality, as you mentioned.  If you enable the Update on Drop option, players won't see anything when they move their tokens while you have the tokens locked.  Due to this, its unlikely that many people are clamoring for this request. -Adam

aisforanagrams said: Just FYI. This is the first time I’m seeing a request for this feature so I wouldn’t say it’s a feature people are clamoring for. Yeah I think this is like second time I've heard this mentioned, and the previous time was wahat made me aware of the TokenLock API's existance, and haven't thought about it since. But on the other hand this is kinda a feature that could well be a staple feature, if I really think about it. The existence of the API is most likely the reason the suggestions haven't gained above 10 votes.

Adam Caramon said: There's an API script that already handles this functionality, as you mentioned.  If you enable the Update on Drop option, players won't see anything when they move their tokens while you have the tokens locked.  Due to this, its unlikely that many people are clamoring for this request. -Adam The OP has a PLUS subscription, not a PRO subscription.

I think point was to explain plausible reason as to why it wasn’t gaining traction as a requested feature. 

Just a note for people seeking the token-lock issue. Token lock does not prevent you from moving the token, it just immediately moves it back on drop. So there is an extremely brief interval where the vision from the attempted drop point is revealed. Likewise, if you move a token you want to lock to a different layer when it is not the controller's turn, they will lose vision. I don't think there is a working solution for exactly this problem. I know it's not what some folks want hear, but unless there is a large demand for this, I doubt it will happen any time soon. There are too many other, more pressing, development issues to deal with at the moment. The only way to deal with this currently is to tell players not to do it. At a physical table, I would expect players not to look behind my DM screen or to lift a cover from a dungeon map. At a virtual table, I would expect the same courtesy.

An option that I have used in the past is to create a Landing Page and at the end of any session or when you take a break, you swap to the Landing Page. This completely circumvents the need for a pause or lock system and is already useable and takes little effort to set up. 

Vegemite Dangerous said: An option that I have used in the past is to create a Landing Page and at the end of any session or when you take a break, you swap to the Landing Page. This completely circumvents the need for a pause or lock system and is already useable and takes little effort to set up.  Not really.  What JaBlam is suggesting is different and I have found the same issue (especially when running a game with kids).  Example (correct me if I am wrong JaBlam): Open door to large room Players enter and start looking around and uncovering things and start asking lots of questions about - what this and that....or stands on a trap Instead, open door, Players enter DM presses hold on token DM sets the mood and describes the scene, sounds, feeling, creatures etc etc DM releases tokens now the players maybe more cautious, (or maybe not) but the DM hasnt lost his train of thought or missed describing something important or you want to play certain music at a certain point or .....

I can think of several ways that could be done with the API—most of them fairly kludgy—but not with vanilla Roll20. Example: An API script could place invisible locked tokens above all the player tokens (or even one big one) that was move-locked. A player could try to move it, but it would snap back into place before they could grab their actual token. Our group is basically in the habit of not moving a token until told they can move tokens.

If you’re playing with adults (which I think most of us are) it shouldn’t be a problem (if it is you probably have bigger problem at hand).  But I can definitely see this could be an issue if running games for kids. 

keithcurtis said: JaBlam said: keithcurtis said: Make a suggestion. If enough people want it, it will remain active and you can lobby for it. Then my suggestion would be that this process is not working for you. If I combine all of the threads that have been posted about this issue, all of the requests for this feature, all of the reports of switching to another application in order to get it and all of the custom api downloads/workarounds; there are litterally hundreds of times as many requests as necisary. Unfortunately many of said "request" threads on the roll20 community were locked before they hit 10 responses (with a statement of "this suggestion did not meet the minimum of 10 responses")  Sorry, but this is akin to looking at cable numbers to tell what tv shows people watch, even though you and 90% of the world watch netflix. You have the same internet access i do, this is basic You need to look at the information as a whole. People who left for another product are not all letting you know on your forum. Meanwhile more then enough people over all, have pushed for this basic feature, for more then 8 years. Its a game breaking issue for new groups. Given the world today, families with kids want to use this application. Imight be able to trust a friend not to touch things when i say stop, but who knows with kids. I just think you're missing out on a large player base, for the sake of a relatively simple fix.  I don't represent Roll20. I do some contract work for them on module conversion. All I can say is that the forums have been around and busy for years. If you pick any issue, you can find reports and requests. I'm on here every day, sometimes for hours, usually concentrating on bug reports and help requests. I just don't see a hue and cry for this feature. Occasional requests, yes, but far more for many, many other features. The simple fact is, that if a suggestion can't garner 10, just 10, votes in a reasonable amount of time, there is no mandate. Sorry, not sure why i assumed you do. Feature requests shouldnt be closed unless they are dealt with. Not to mention the current majority is not therefore correct; This is aimed at new players. At an average of 5 players per DM, that means there were 120 people affected withing the 20 responses i found from at least 8 years ago. Many of which were kids learning to play and therefore not posting. Others quit the game due to problems. Even if we look at groups that figured it out, most people from each group probably did not post. Why? Because we the DM's are expected to fix these problems; especially when dealing with newbs. The real problem for me is the attitude that comes as a response to most of those threads. When researching this issue you get a bunch of manchild comments like "get gud", or "get better friends" and the only official responses are along the lines of "the app's good enough, no one needs that". Realy makes me believe they care about new players and families. Don't get me wrong, there are many good reasons to use roll20. To me that does not mean its good enough as is. 

I do the landing page thing, that certainly works between games. I do not have pro, nor do i intend on giving roll20 more money so that I can use The Aaron's code. Not unless they start giving that money to him. That api doesn't actualy cover the issue anyways; it's creator straight up stated that roll20 needs to make some changes in order to properly "pause tokens". Go look at the api thread, how many people use that one/how many times it's been downloaded. That is still not the entire number of people who want this feature. I mean... is this not obvious... the dm has no way of stopping people from moving their tokens for a moment while they describe something...??? Its either they have full controll or not at all.... what? Sure, I'll just tell a bunch of kids not to click anything... should work out fine. 

Marcel said: Vegemite Dangerous said: An option that I have used in the past is to create a Landing Page and at the end of any session or when you take a break, you swap to the Landing Page. This completely circumvents the need for a pause or lock system and is already useable and takes little effort to set up.  Not really.  What JaBlam is suggesting is different and I have found the same issue (especially when running a game with kids).  Example (correct me if I am wrong JaBlam): Open door to large room Players enter and start looking around and uncovering things and start asking lots of questions about - what this and that....or stands on a trap Instead, open door, Players enter DM presses hold on token DM sets the mood and describes the scene, sounds, feeling, creatures etc etc DM releases tokens now the players maybe more cautious, (or maybe not) but the DM hasnt lost his train of thought or missed describing something important or you want to play certain music at a certain point or ..... You've got it exactly. I'm not planning on firing my son or my nephews from their first game. That said, I can't get my 35 year old friends to stay still evety single time. "oops, sorry i think i went too far" gets annoying. 

JaBlam said: Sorry, not sure why i assumed you do. Feature requests shouldnt be closed unless they are dealt with. Not to mention the current majority is not therefore correct; This is aimed at new players. At an average of 5 players per DM, that means there were 120 people affected withing the 20 responses i found from at least 8 years ago. Many of which were kids learning to play and therefore not posting. Others quit the game due to problems. Even if we look at groups that figured it out, most people from each group probably did not post. Why? Because we the DM's are expected to fix these problems; especially when dealing with newbs. The real problem for me is the attitude that comes as a response to most of those threads. When researching this issue you get a bunch of manchild comments like "get gud", or "get better friends" and the only official responses are along the lines of "the app's good enough, no one needs that". Realy makes me believe they care about new players and families. Don't get me wrong, there are many good reasons to use roll20. To me that does not mean its good enough as is.  I mention sometimes that I don't work for Roll20 since I post often enough that I think some folks just assume. Also the "Forum Champion" tag can confuse some folks. I don't like dismissive, "You need to get better friends" remarks either. Too close to "you're having fun wrong" comments. I don't think they are constructive, and I apologize if any of my comments gave off  that sort of vibe. My intent was only to say that the only alternative to a software solution is some sort of social solution. Not ideal for your use case, obviously. As for the ten vote minimum on suggestions, that's a relatively new policy. The suggestion forums went through a major revamp a year or two ago. One of the problems was duplicate threads or a sea of old and outdated suggestions. It made it difficult for devs to monitor or respond to. The current closure count was instituted as a way of making the content more manageable.

keithcurtis said: All I can say is that the forums have been around and busy for years. If you pick any issue, you can find reports and requests. I'm on here every day, sometimes for hours, usually concentrating on bug reports and help requests. I just don't see a hue and cry for this feature. Occasional requests, yes, but far more for many, many other features. The simple fact is, that if a suggestion can't garner 10, just 10, votes in a reasonable amount of time, there is no mandate. The biggest downfall, in my opinion, with the feature request system is that I would bet 10% or less of the player base even look at the forums, let alone really go through them. The majority of those who do, will come here to find a solution to the problem they are having (hopefully searching first, but not usually). They do not weed through the suggestion posts. The people who DO spend any decent amount of time on the forums have found workarounds or other solutions, and as more of a "power user" they also do not represent the majority of the users of the system. So there are definite flaws with that system. That being said, do I have a better way? Sadly, not really. But the flaws in the current system should be recognized.

This is true. I don't include the suggestion forum on my regular forum dives. I don't know of a better way either, but can absolutely say that it's light years better than it was two years ago, when it was often referred to as the Suggestion Graveyard. There's much better tracking and Roll20 has realized the importance of periodic dev responses and updates.

New user so  bare with me.  None in our group are pro users so we can't use API. We do have a want for this feature and actually had an incident yesterday where someone moved to far to fast and ruined a reveal. So I was looking for a work around. In the base VTT it seems there are two possible mechanisms we could use:-  1. remove the character associations from the tokens. 2. move the tokens to the map layer. No 1 is a dogs dinner so No 2 seems the best option. I couldn't see any way to do this simply with Roll20 macro's. So thinking up a level i was wondering if we could create a browser macro "event" which reproduces a drag box over the screen area to do a select all and then go through the sequence to send to map layer. A second macro would do the same selection but set to token layer. Danger here as it would also select any NPC tokens on the map layer. Im not experienced with macros so hopefully you could help. I notice the move to layers have shortcut keys so this could be a very small macro in the browser.

One potential solution would be to create a transparent PNG and add it to a card deck. The card, when played to the table would need to be sufficiently large enough to cover the entire map (or at least a good portion of it). Because it was last played, it should sit on top of all the tokens. The players could still grab the card (after it's been played), but they wouldn't be grabbing their token, they'd be dragging the card. When creating a deck of cards, you can specify how big the card is when it's played to the table, so that would allow you make the card as large as you want, even if the transparent image, itself, is really small.

Mel C. said: New user so  bare with me.  None in our group are pro users so we can't use API. We do have a want for this feature and actually had an incident yesterday where someone moved to far to fast and ruined a reveal. So I was looking for a work around. In the base VTT it seems there are two possible mechanisms we could use:-  1. remove the character associations from the tokens. 2. move the tokens to the map layer. No 1 is a dogs dinner so No 2 seems the best option. I couldn't see any way to do this simply with Roll20 macro's. So thinking up a level i was wondering if we could create a browser macro "event" which reproduces a drag box over the screen area to do a select all and then go through the sequence to send to map layer. A second macro would do the same selection but set to token layer. Danger here as it would also select any NPC tokens on the map layer. Im not experienced with macros so hopefully you could help. I notice the move to layers have shortcut keys so this could be a very small macro in the browser. The problem I have had with moving things to the map layer is that it can be hard to not mess up the map. Basically on the map layer the map image is treated the same as a token. When several tokens are in the same space it can be hard to select the one you want and I have ended up moving the map more often than not.  Now perhaps a macro that selects the token by name or ID and not relying on selecting it with the cursor? but unfortunately unless I am mistaken you would need the API to write a script or use one like “tokenmod” to change the layer of a token with a macro. But I’m far from a macro expert.

One solution to avoid accidental reveals is to use the Fog of War function (not the advanced fog of war). The GM has to manually reveal an area, so if the party are moving too far/quickly they will be moving their token into total darkness.

Thanks for all of your suggestions. The primary issue I have with most of them, is the fact that they cancel out the advanced fog of war option. That is the only reason I have a plus account, since everything else I use is included in modules or hand made. The regular fog of war option is probably the simplest fix, but I much prefer using real time line of sight. I wouldnt complain if i wasn't paying for it... I used to use a certain free program on a reverse-projection table for games (pre-covid) and it had all of this. At least the Strahd module is amazing.  I should add that the "card macro" Findersky mentioned is intreguing. A lot of other fixes remove the players view during the "pause", while this option could work. I'll have to try it out.