Latest sheet changes & general discussion

Hi Everyone, Just wanted to cast a broad net to anyone that might be interested... Planning on making some updates the 1e sheet again, but first I need to update repeating attributes for " reasons ", but it will break existing off-sheet macros. ;-( Feedback/suggestions requested in the forum thread <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9156249/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9156249/</a> &nbsp;if you don't mind. Cheers Vince

Thank you!

Thanks for the invitation, Vince. I appreciate the chance to participate.&nbsp;

I was very hard about changes up front.&nbsp; But that is because i love 1E.&nbsp; As long as all changes that occur also love 1E i give my support too.&nbsp; And i will look forward to it for Christmas&nbsp; :)

Buddahbaba said: I was very hard about changes up front.&nbsp; But that is because i love 1E.&nbsp; As long as all changes that occur also love 1E i give my support too.&nbsp; And i will look forward to it for Christmas&nbsp; :) Awesome.&nbsp; Thanks

Thank you for doing this! Love 1st Edition!

I personally don't make very much use of the off-sheet macros so I may be biased here but generally: Do you want to be crippled forever by never touching anything that could harm them? If I may take the opportunity to ask about somehting I can't find on the sheet. where do theses <a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ohNcHA-LMHk/YERr36hHhEI/AAAAAAAAFi4/Wdgy5L-F7DUr8YnZpU5VC6JaPevhKf8PwCNcBGAsYHQ/s939/1E-WeaponTypes.png" rel="nofollow">https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ohNcHA-LMHk/YERr36hHhEI/AAAAAAAAFi4/Wdgy5L-F7DUr8YnZpU5VC6JaPevhKf8PwCNcBGAsYHQ/s939/1E-WeaponTypes.png</a> go? Seems like there should be a place for it where you list your weapons. Also are you planing to add some simple NPC version sheet? I really like the sheet and the general layout btw. Very very nice! Thanks a lot for making it.

Hi elfsphere, I am considering adding an area to each weapon to document weapon type vs ac adjustments for those that like that sort of thing. lol I believe that some people currently use the weapon notes to store/display the info with each weapon's attack and simply adjust their results visually/mentally...&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/8460127/ad-and-d-1e-update/?pageforid=8617684#post-8617684" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/8460127/ad-and-d-1e-update/?pageforid=8617684#post-8617684</a> Since applying the adjustments are very situational, I'm not sure if I will actually be able to incorporate the them into a live roll, but we'll see. ;-) Yes, I am planning on adding a toggle on the sheet to switch to a "slimmed-down" monster/npc page. Cheers

Vince, whether you ultimately decide you have time to mess with such a change to the 1E sheets is something only you can decide, but i would like to offer you a word of encouragement.&nbsp; At this point in time, many people who explore 1E explore it as a historical document, or a time capsule.&nbsp; Those groups (&amp; my own AD&amp;D DM is largely this way) often want to see how far they can go with the rules as written and try to understand their form, function, spirit, and purpose.&nbsp; It is for that history driven segment of 1E players that i think the inclusion of such a table would really be welcome and valuable in their study of the game the way it was, as they try to get a glimpse into the minds of its authors.&nbsp; In any event, i applaud your courage to even approach the topic, my friend!&nbsp; :)

Oh right. That's a good idea. Thanks! Awesome! Thanks again!

Agreed.&nbsp; My work with the 1e sheet has always been about trying to stick to the integrity of Ad&amp;d 1e, (good and the bad...) I'm trying to walk the line between an old school paper sheet that most of us started with to something a little more "convienant".&nbsp; I also like including enough flexibility to handle a modicum of common house rules that many of us adapted.&nbsp; BTB first though. Hopefully I can find that balance.&nbsp;

Thanks for maintaining this.&nbsp; I love your Character sheet.&nbsp; We personally play a hybrid game that uses elements of pretty much all editions (except 4th) and your sheet accommodates that best (and looks the best)

Thanks Tariff.&nbsp; Trying to improve the sheet without isolating anyone...&nbsp; I've been getting bogged down in the 1e rules and the 1001 opinions of said rules to try and come to the "best" option for a VTT-based sheet.&nbsp; I have to admit that our core group played very loose when we were kids.&nbsp; Revisiting the rule set 40+ years later is eye opening.&nbsp; lol Stay tuned. ;-)

Sneak Peak (might have something for the beta game this week...)

Outstanding to see work on this resurgent.&nbsp; :)&nbsp;&nbsp;

Gone but not forgotten. ;-)

elfsphere said: I personally don't make very much use of the off-sheet macros so I may be biased here but generally: Do you want to be crippled forever by never touching anything that could harm them? If I may take the opportunity to ask about somehting I can't find on the sheet. where do theses <a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ohNcHA-LMHk/YERr36hHhEI/AAAAAAAAFi4/Wdgy5L-F7DUr8YnZpU5VC6JaPevhKf8PwCNcBGAsYHQ/s939/1E-WeaponTypes.png" rel="nofollow">https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ohNcHA-LMHk/YERr36hHhEI/AAAAAAAAFi4/Wdgy5L-F7DUr8YnZpU5VC6JaPevhKf8PwCNcBGAsYHQ/s939/1E-WeaponTypes.png</a> go? Seems like there should be a place for it where you list your weapons. Also are you planing to add some simple NPC version sheet? I really like the sheet and the general layout btw. Very very nice! Thanks a lot for making it. Working on adding in the To Hit Armor Type Adjustments per weapon.&nbsp; Quick and dirty output was just including the adjustments in the weapon notes to get something in chat.&nbsp; Since some people use them while others do not... and that they are "normally" (another 1e mechanic that is often debated/house-ruled) limited to attacks against armor wearing enemies, thinking this could be included with an attack roll based on a checkbox.&nbsp; Ultimately, it should be possible to automatically have this adjust the To Hit tables that are displayed. &nbsp;

vÍnce said: elfsphere said: I personally don't make very much use of the off-sheet macros so I may be biased here but generally: Do you want to be crippled forever by never touching anything that could harm them? If I may take the opportunity to ask about somehting I can't find on the sheet. where do theses <a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ohNcHA-LMHk/YERr36hHhEI/AAAAAAAAFi4/Wdgy5L-F7DUr8YnZpU5VC6JaPevhKf8PwCNcBGAsYHQ/s939/1E-WeaponTypes.png" rel="nofollow">https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ohNcHA-LMHk/YERr36hHhEI/AAAAAAAAFi4/Wdgy5L-F7DUr8YnZpU5VC6JaPevhKf8PwCNcBGAsYHQ/s939/1E-WeaponTypes.png</a> go? Seems like there should be a place for it where you list your weapons. Also are you planing to add some simple NPC version sheet? I really like the sheet and the general layout btw. Very very nice! Thanks a lot for making it. Working on adding in the To Hit Armor Type Adjustments per weapon.&nbsp; Quick and dirty output was just including the adjustments in the weapon notes to get something in chat.&nbsp; Since some people use them while others do not... and that they are "normally" (another 1e mechanic that is often debated/house-ruled) limited to attacks against armor wearing enemies, thinking this could be included with an attack roll based on a checkbox.&nbsp; Ultimately, it should be possible to automatically have this adjust the To Hit tables that are displayed. Wow! Super-cool man! - Just that it shows up as notes and that there is a natural place to fill it in is awesome. More than adequate for the purpose. That calculation presented to the DM makes it royal though.

Unlike others, my campaign makes extensive use of off sheet macros. The last change caused me all sorts of difficulties. My main off sheet macro allows choice of weapon (from weapon slots) and clicking target to determine hit/miss and damage. In order for the macro to work, monsters required their own sheet with about 15 attributes. The last change required me to re-enter weapon slots for characters AND monsters. Even then, the macro crashed. By inspecting the updated variables, I was able to determine that 'cost' and 'weapon speed' were altered (no mention in sheet updates) requiring positive values only. All these changes required me to do about 40 hours of data entry and debugging. That being said, as I have an IT background; I understand the need for standardization of code. For future changes, it would be very nice to be able to keep the current version. Perhaps you could let the end-user decide whether to update their character sheet to a new version or keep their current version. Alternatively, is there a method for me to create a copy of the current sheet and rename it so it won't be affected by future version changes.

@SW I'm very sorry to hear that you were cold-cocked by the attribute changes...&nbsp; I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.&nbsp; While I was able to migrate attribute data on the sheet, off-sheet macros are out of scope for sheetworkers and I only added to existing on-sheet custom macro-text to help preserve custom macros(aside from the need to update the repeating names).&nbsp; I tried to telegraph the change in the sheet announcements and on the forums as long as possible (10+ mo).&nbsp; Much of the delay was the fact that I knew that it was going to be disruptive for some "power" users. Hopefully I will not need to change any more existing attributes but merely add to/expand upon them for a better sheet to come. Cost and Weapon Speed now require positive values;&nbsp; WP is not used other than a placeholder on the sheet. &lt;input type="text" class="sheet-input-small" name="attr_weapon_speed" title="@{repeating_weapon_$X_weapon_speed}" value="0"&gt; Looking at an older version of the sheet, this code hasn't changed other than the attribute name.&nbsp; Not sure. Perhaps there may have been a change by roll20 that affected your macro?&nbsp; IDK A quick test with Cost shows it works with negative values on the sheet.&nbsp; Again, maybe roll20 has made a change that's affecting macro parsing. Can you post an example macro where WP and Cost are breaking?&nbsp; Feel free to PM if you like. Any Pro user can grab historic code from the roll20 github repo. ADnD1e and use that for a Custom sheet template.&nbsp; Click on the html and css files in the repo and use the "History"option to see past versions of the sheet code. copy/paste code to a custom game settings page and save. Doing so "freezes" the code base in time until you manually update to newer version of change back to the "live" code that is pushed to sheets weekly.&nbsp; Be warned, I'm not sure how a current(post attribute re-name update) will handle "time travel".&nbsp; I would test on a copy of your game. Again, apologies for being a PiTA(d&amp;d)...

I've updated the test game with my latest code (very much still a WIP...) Lots of work to do still, but I thought I should upload to make sure I'm on the right track. Nothing is set in stone.&nbsp; This "alpha" code will still be changing frequently and may break things.&nbsp; Better to do that here. ;-)

Hi Vince, Using this browser: Chrome&nbsp; Version 95.0.4638.69 (Official Build) (64-bit) 1) HP heart and AC shield locations with the bigger font are in white colour and overlap the HP and AC terms. It's invisible when viewed on a white background. 2) the Class field in the title block is a single entry, and is right above the multiple class entries, so it's a bit redundant.&nbsp; \ 3) The Mental Save button only needs to trigger a basic d20 roll with the Modifier applied. Currently, it is picking up one of the primary Saving Throws with a target number from the class table.&nbsp;

Chris A. said: Hi Vince, 1) HP heart and AC shield locations with the bigger font are in white colour and overlap the HP and AC terms. It's invisible when viewed on a white background. 2) the Class field in the title block is a single entry, and is right above the multiple class entries, so it's a bit redundant.&nbsp; 1. The HP and AC location in your screen shot is odd...&nbsp; Obviously that is not what's intended and doesn't happen in my test environment.&nbsp; I'll do some investigating. FIXED 2. Regarding the duplicate class class info.&nbsp; I guess I'm thing that the Class Details section would be closed most of the time except for leveling up or adding XP... REVISITING 3. Mental Save; my bad, I thought it was supposed to be a regular save, categorically, except you also applied a wis-mod. I can easily change this to a d20+wis-mod FIXED

"2. Regarding the duplicate class class info.&nbsp; I guess I'm thing that the Class Details section would be closed most of the time except for leveling up or adding XP..." I would rather see the first two columns of the multiple entry section open all the time (but with tighter line spacing) and eliminate the single class entry line in the title block. But that's only my preference.&nbsp; I updated my post to include the browser version but you may not have seen it: Using this browser: Chrome&nbsp; Version 95.0.4638.69 (Official Build) (64-bit) &lt;edit&gt; The HP/AC overlap Issue looks the same on&nbsp; Microsoft Edge Version 95.0.1020.44 (Official build) (64-bit) Running Windows 7 Pro for both &lt;edit again&gt; I normally use the Brave browser at home; under Win10, Linux Mint 18.3, and Mac OS High Sierra Should &nbsp;Might be able to check those out tomorrow AM.

I appreciate the feedback Chris! lol. HP and AC look stellar in FF, but die in Chrome. I'll fix that. EDIT/UPDATE: Should be fixed now. Chrome on left , FF right

vÍnce said: I am considering adding an area to each weapon to document weapon type vs ac adjustments for those that like that sort of thing. lol Since applying the adjustments are very situational, I'm not sure if I will actually be able to incorporate the them into a live roll, but we'll see. ;-) The wrinkle is that these adjustments are vs Armour Type not Armour Class, so applying them automatically would require removing any DEX and/or Magical adjustments from the target's AC in order to apply the correct modifier from the Table to the attacker's to-hit roll. Is the juice worth the squeeze in this case?

Chris A. said: vÍnce said: I am considering adding an area to each weapon to document weapon type vs ac adjustments for those that like that sort of thing. lol Since applying the adjustments are very situational, I'm not sure if I will actually be able to incorporate the them into a live roll, but we'll see. ;-) The wrinkle is that these adjustments are vs Armour Type not Armour Class, so applying them automatically would require removing any DEX and/or Magical adjustments from the target's AC in order to apply the correct modifier from the Table to the attacker's to-hit roll. Is the juice worth the squeeze in this case? Agreed.&nbsp; I think it should be OK to just include an option to post the table with the attack for reference.&nbsp; Although not BTB, I believe some people use them all the time and make judgement calls on what a monster's natural armor type might be...

Chris A. said: "2. Regarding the duplicate class class info.&nbsp; I guess I'm thing that the Class Details section would be closed most of the time except for leveling up or adding XP..." I would rather see the first two columns of the multiple entry section open all the time (but with tighter line spacing) and eliminate the single class entry line in the title block. But that's only my preference. I'm guessing that the majority of characters are not multi-class (I could be wrong), so I've always had a hard time displaying fields for 3 classes 24/7.&nbsp; There might be a way for me to only show the additional class and level rows IF the 2nd and/or 3rd class names are filled out in the "Class Details" section.&nbsp; The other hurdle is to ensure the layout flows appropriately if sections are displayed or not. I'm going to move HP and AC back under the logo as well.

Inspect on "Cost" for Spear +1: The "Speed" variable seems to have been updated since I fixed my macros (it no longer has a minimum of zero. The "weapon cost" still has a positive only attribute (min=0). I have created workarounds for these variables. (I added 10 to the value and changed my macros to subtract 10 from the variable as part of the processing of the macro. (I use these variables for "Attack Priority" from Dragon magazine #71). It seems PowerCards API is very picky with the weapon slots. Part of my debugging was changing the 'weapon name' on each slot (as per sheet change requirements); this still crashed the API. As I tested further, it became obvious that I needed to re-enter values in the weapon slots for the API to recognize the values. I have completed my macro changes and everything seems to be working properly now. We'll see when we have our first session of the season.

Thanks for your continued efforts.&nbsp; 1) The HP &amp; AC icons look sweet in Chrome, now. 2) (optionally) Posting the Weapon Type vs Armour Type table along with the attack for DM reference is a great idea. I would sometimes treat the thick-skinned mammals as having Leather and other, more fantastic beasts as having Banded or Plate. Not many players wanted to use this particular combat sub-system, though. Needs to be included for RAW/historical purposes. 3) The current page display has the class row in the main header as an echo of the first row data of the multi-class table. Would it be possible to conditionally fill in that header row with the contents of the multi-class rows? i.e. displaying "Fighter/Magic-User/Thief&nbsp; &nbsp; 2/2/3" or "Cleric/Fighter&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;2/2" if the individual entries were present below? No worries if this is too big of an ask.

S W. said: I have completed my macro changes and everything seems to be working properly now. We'll see when we have our first session of the season. I am now extremely curious about the scope of your macros. I suspect that they would not work without a Pro subscription.

Hi SW, min, max, and step don't actually have any effect on a field unless the input is type="number".&nbsp; The sheetworkers convert them to numbers for sheet calculations, but I could see how this might impact macros and API scripts that may not sanitize attribute values... Cost, weight, speed and... could probably be changed to type="number" to honor min, max, and step, but it's my understanding that the value would only be retained if the old value was actually a number.&nbsp; If the attribute had something other than a valid number, I believe you lose the data.&nbsp; This is something I would want to test out before making a change.

Chris A. said: Thanks for your continued efforts.&nbsp; 1) The HP &amp; AC icons look sweet in Chrome, now. 2) (optionally) Posting the Weapon Type vs Armour Type table along with the attack for DM reference is a great idea. I would sometimes treat the thick-skinned mammals as having Leather and other, more fantastic beasts as having Banded or Plate. Not many players wanted to use this particular combat sub-system, though. Needs to be included for RAW/historical purposes. 3) The current page display has the class row in the main header as an echo of the first row data of the multi-class table. Would it be possible to conditionally fill in that header row with the contents of the multi-class rows? i.e. displaying "Fighter/Magic-User/Thief&nbsp; &nbsp; 2/2/3"&nbsp; &nbsp;if the individual entries were present below? No worries if this is too big of an ask. #1 and #2; I agree. ;-) #3 That might work as well...&nbsp; Still fleshing things out at the top. While I want to keep shieldless, surprised, and rear AC in view, I would like to hide the additional armor details unless you toggle them into view. Same as Class Details. IMO,the most important/most used features of the sheet should be viewable/easily accessible.&nbsp; I know, "Thanks Capt. Obvious" ;-P

Chris A. &nbsp; You are correct, a Pro subscription is required for API macros. I use PowerCards and TokenMod. As for scope, I have incorporated the 5 'natural 20' to hit rolls as per 1e, damage calculated and reduced on icon bar, spells have individual macros, including monster saving throws and status markers. I am a retired programmer (not Java) with lots of time.

S W. said: Chris A. &nbsp; You are correct, a Pro subscription is required for API macros. I use PowerCards and TokenMod. As for scope, I have incorporated the 5 'natural 20' to hit rolls as per 1e, damage calculated and reduced on icon bar, spells have individual macros, including monster saving throws and status markers. I am a retired programmer (not Java) with lots of time. Sounds great! I am as far as writing spell macros to reflect changes based on level of caster, but not affecting the targets automatically. Something to shoot for. I am neither retired nor a seasoned programmer. I don't think that absolutely everything has to be automated via the character sheet, and I appreciate being able to access the macros for the weapons, spells, and other content to tweak them for my specific use-case.

I notice there has been a lot of back and on this topic. Have you consider talking to people that are actually good at playing AD&amp;D 1e? I am just kidding with you guys (but not you Vince.)

Everyone, I would like to introduce the new head of Customer Service, Stephen S. Please do not hesitate to direct any questions and/or concerns, not limited to refactoring the 1e character sheet, to Stephen's personal account for all your inquiries.

:-)

Is the avatar hard coded in the sheet?

Stephen S. said: Is the avatar hard coded in the sheet? Yes.&nbsp; Roll20 recently enabled the ability to display avatar, token, and url images within the character sheet.&nbsp; Basically &lt;img&gt; <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Image_use_in_character_sheets" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Image_use_in_character_sheets</a> This is currently coded to the character's avatar/portrait by default, but I will probably include an option in the settings to use the sheet's avatar, custom url, or none.&nbsp; Haven't decided if a generic humanoid silhouette will display if there is no avatar/portrait chosen or if you choose "none".&nbsp; Might be able to flow other fields into the spot if you choose none as well...

Kind of interesting.....&nbsp; with API you could do a lot with that.

Added toggles(checkboxes) for Weapon Proficiency and the To Hit vs Armor Type table. Default attack macro has been updated to include both.

vÍnce, thank you for all of your hard work!

Great stuff! This has already exceeded my expectations, with no sign of stopping. Thank you, Vince!

Still wrestling with how best to track multi-class hp... I currently have this setup to be very "open", but it can be more automated. Use the Tracked HP field to track each classes level-up.&nbsp; Record "hp rolled+con adj" Enter the running tracked total on the HP column per class row. (I might move the HP and Con adj. columns over to the right of Tracking now that I think of it.) Tracked HP field at the bottom should be ALL HP and con adj for all classes TOTAL HP is Tracked HP/# of Classes&nbsp; (currently I am not rounding anything and just showing the the total) You can then use TOTAL HP as a reference to fill in HitPoints|max (ie rounding up/down) as per your choice... EDIT/UPDATE: I gone ahead and made the hp total fields along the bottom of the class details section auto-calc. Takes class totals hp+con and divides by #of classes. No rounding. You decide what to enter in the HitPoints|max field. There's a spot for "unused" fractional hp as well, if needed... Thoughts?&nbsp; Thanks

Working on Armor Details (wip) I've removed "Surprised" since I don't believe there is actually anything BTB that modifies your AC when surprised... Am I missing anything?

DMG, page 28: Neither penalty nor bonus due to dexterity (the Defensive Adjustment) is considered when the character is subjected to the following attack forms: Attacks from the rear flank, rear, or strikes from behind (where the character is virtually unable to see the attack coming). Large missiles such as those hurled by a giant or some form of engine (where the trajectory and speed and size of the missile negate dexterity considerations). DMG, page 66: Armor Class of Charging Creatures: There is no dexterity bonus allowed for charging creatures. Creatures with no dexterity bonus became 1 armor class lower, i.e. easier to hit. Thus on AC 3 creature becomes AC 4. There isno penalty to AC 10 creatures for charging, however. DMG, page 70: Flank attacks All flank attacks negate any defender armor class addition for shield. Attacks against a rear flank, where the opponent is virtually unable to view the attackers, negate dexterity armor class bonus. So.... "No Dex AC" rather than "Surprised" (But leaving it off is likely best.)

I read a ton of lengthy posts on dragonsfoot from many rules lawyers regarding the issue... My head hurts.&nbsp; I'm sure some tables may play with a "flat-footed" rule, but I'm 99% sure BTB, AC isn't adjusted when surprised.

vÍnce said: I read a ton of lengthy posts on dragonsfoot from many rules lawyers regarding the issue... My head hurts.&nbsp; I'm sure some tables may play with a "flat-footed" rule, but I'm 99% sure BTB, AC isn't adjusted when surprised. I think you are right, somehow it creeped into the record sheets.

Armor Details; now includes auto-calculations based off of the armor "matrix". Best selected/worn base will be used for AC. All selected/worn armor adjustment and magical adjustments are applied. Calcs, Rear, Shieldless, and Total AC. AC Base column defaults to "10".

Added Carried option for armor(s) Weights are auto-calculated.&nbsp; Weight totals are located in Equipment.