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Testing the Waters

I looked around at all the different forums and this seemed the most appropriate place to post this. Anyway, this may not be the best of first impressions (and I realize I may be taking my own life into my hands by even broaching this subject) but this topic is about Kenders. I gotta say, up until the playtest pack for DnD Next was released I had no idea what a Kender was or even that such a concept even existed. Since discovering it, however, I've fallen in love with the race, but my interest in Kenders is purely academic in a manner of speaking and by that I mean I love them because of the quirky characters I could easily create with them. Some personal history, I fancy myself a writer. I'm not published yet but I do on occasion participate in writing forums where we create characters and stories and "role play". When I create characters for these stories I like to put a little bit of extra thought into who they are and one of the things I love to do is to create characters who have certain quirks that are often times contradictory to what they do. For instance, I participated in a role play where I created a Jedi Knight who was afflicted with scopophobia (a fear of being seen). In another role play I created a swashbuckling pirate character who couldn't swim and was afraid of water in spite of the fact that she sailed quite frequently. In a DnD 3.5 game I created a dungeon delver character who was claustrophobic and many others with similar traits. So when I saw Kender in the Player's Handbook and read that they tend to collect random useless junk and frequently forget that they have it my eyes lit up with the possibilities. An entire race of people built around the same kind of quirks and eccentricities I frequently build into my characters? It was a match made in heaven. Unfortunately, in researching the race and trying to learn more about it I quickly found out that Kenders were one of if not the most hated race in DnD, which was disheartening to say the least. I've read arguments from both sides of the debates and it seems to me a lot of the ire directed towards Kenders comes from a mishandling of, well--Kender handling. Basically, a bunch of irresponsible players who frequently play Kender to troll the rest of the party by stealing their stuff. Then they justify it by saying, "Oh, I'm just playing my race," as if that makes it okay. Would playing an evil character who constantly betrays or tries to kill the party and then justify it by saying, "I'm just playing my alignment," be any different? Anyway, I'm not really posting this to argue the merits of playing a Kender I'm really just sort of testing the waters as the title says. I did a forum search for the word Kender to sort of get a feel for how people around here feel about them with no real results so now I'm asking. To be clear, though, my preferred style of play is not to disrupt the game every thirty seconds and alert the DM to the fact I'm making a sleight of hand check. I prefer the absent-minded version of handling where the DM makes sleight of hand checks for me in secret. For instance, if I say I want to get a closer look at an object I think is interesting the DM should decide whether or not to make a roll to see if I take it or not. I don't necessarily have to take everything I pick up but it should at least be unclear to me whether I put something back or put it in my bag. Or alternatively the DM can decide at random intervals whether that item someone is reaching for is in their bag or mine which I'm okay with so long as it doesn't happen so frequently that people start actually getting really angry with me. That way if another player's item turns up in my possession I can genuinely be surprised by it as a Kender should be and the role play that follows is just that much more authentic. I also don't see Kender handling as a game mechanic that must be used all the time to justify playing a Kender. I see it as more of a story mechanic that can and should be used to encourage good role play and character development (which is how I would use it in my games if I ever get around to finishing my DnD Next campaign). However, like any good story mechanic it can easily become stale or even infuriating if used too much. That's my personal feeling on the subject though I've seen it argued many times that Kender who aren't stealing all the time are cheating or not playing their character right and to that I say is there a rule that says you have to play race X a certain way? You're talking about a game where the developers hand you a bunch of rules and say do with them what you will and have frequently gone on record as saying, "If the rules get in the way of your enjoyment of the game then throw out the rules." There are lots of things to love about Kenders that go beyond Kender handling. I am as much interested in their fearlessness, their insatiable curiosity and their fierce loyalty to their friends as I am in their tendency to often misplace important things until later. To me I look at the Kender and see a potential goldmine for memorable characters who are funny and cute and maybe even a little bit annoying but not so much that it takes away from everyone's enjoyment of the game. Heck, my last (and well first) Kender had some interesting quirks that went beyond just being a Kender. For starters her background was a Jester, although she was really more of a gleeman. She danced, told stories, played music, wrote jokes and loved to talk to interesting people and write down things they tell her to use in her act and whenever something made her angry she had a tendency to swear in Orcish (I even bought an Orcish to English dictionary to do just that). She was also just as likely to accept an old boot as payment for a quest as she was to accept gold or gems (because let's face it, despite their disinterest in gold or gems even Kenders need money to buy food). She may have also tried to barter with junk once or twice. Oh, and she was rather vain at times as well cause you know Kenders know the importance of first impressions so she was always preening herself when granted the opportunity and had an expensive ivory brush and silver mirror she always carried around with her. I think she made for a fun character but sadly the campaign I was in ended sooner than I would have hoped (conflicts in scheduling, hooray retail schedules). Anyway, to bring this long post to a close and basically get to the point I was trying to make, how do people around here generally feel about running games with a Kender in the group? Are people here somewhat optimistic and open to the idea or am I in the wrong place?
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Edited 1403661636
Pat S.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
Kenders as per the book was not bad race. It was more of the way people played them due to the fact a significant number of players believed it gave them carte blanche to steal from everyone including their companions which does not make the players very happy. I've played in various Dragonlance games and had people play kenders, proper and improperly, that stole from my character. I took it in stride while I watched other players get mad even when in other games they played thieves that did the same thing. The fearless part of kenders has always been a problem with GM's but the GM's that think out of the box tend to have less problems with kenders. To make it short, IMHO, if a kender is played properly, it can be a fun character in the game.
1403668393
The Aaron
Roll20 Production Team
API Scripter
Funny! Had nearly this same conversation with a co-worker just today! I think Kender get a bad rap because of being played by players who just want to screw with other players maliciously. I think a good player can play a Kender in the spirit put forth in the books without being a nuisance.
Basically in any party with a kender, My character told the Kender character, Steal from me as part of your fun, I slit your throat as part of the fun. Steal from our enemies. you steal from me, you are no longer in my party. Thus I was typically labeled a "Psycho", whereupon I suggested to the Kender, "Okay steal, from Psycho Labeler's character...he's okay with it." Then it turned into arguments etc. so that eventually people didn't play Kenders. Some find it fun. Same kind of fun as shake the kender out post-adventure, and give them a few bashes with a mace for each object found. It worked for Dragonlance as novels. not for me.
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Edited 1403689423
Yeah, I've played with someone who said pretty much the same thing which was a frightening prospect for me because I agreed to let the DM decide when I've handled something and he of course constantly made it a point to say that he would make things disappear when he found it amusing. I came to every session wondering if it would be my last... >.> He was mostly joking, though, thankfully and I never really had a chance to handle anything except for a jade unicorn I found in a chest that unfortunately ended up in my bag and will stay there unbeknownst to the party until a future date when they catch me playing with it... Assuming we continue the campaign at some point. It isn't my intent to disrupt other people's enjoyment of the game, however, just the opposite in fact. Whenever I DM a campaign I go out of my way to make sure my players are having fun which sometimes involves letting certain things slide or deliberately fixing die rolls when someone is having trouble hitting or they're about to die (hopefully without being too obvious). That's not to say that playing a game with me is easy mode, or anything, I'm fairly competitive by nature, which is a trait I often have to subdue when DMing so the session doesn't dissolve into a game of me versus them. At the same time, though, the session wouldn't be very enjoyable if it wasn't challenging (which, after playing with a couple of min/maxers with super overpowered characters, is one of the reasons why I abhor 3.5 now). Having said all that I would use a Kender character as comic relief to lighten the mood and yeah I know a lot of people cringe when they hear the words "comic relief" because they immediately think of the worst examples like Jar Jar Binks but comic relief is something I'm actually good at. I don't know where people got it in their heads that Kender have to speak in high pitched voices all the time or that optimistic and cheery must mean obnoxious and annoying. Those people I just want smack and say, "No! Stop it! If I have to listen to your falsetto for another thirty minutes I swear I'm going to choke a Smurf." ... Which begs the question, if you choke a Smurf what color does it turn? Anyway, I've played serious characters before and I've played comedic characters and I've even played comedic characters seriously. There's a wide range of things you can do with a character but more often than not I see people get hung up on these ideas of what a character is that they so easily forget that not everyone is the same. I'm sure all Kender have certain qualities that they share but that doesn't mean that every Kender is a carbon copy of the next. Just as one Paladin's code of conduct could easily be different from another's that doesn't mean that either one is wrong... Unless that Paladin is deliberately committing evil acts in which case yeah, that might be wrong but I digress. Point is the people who play Kenders to deliberately disrupt the game and piss people off are a-holes and they're spoiling the fun for people like me who have a legitimate interest in the race for reasons that go way beyond always trying to steal stuff and be a disruptive little twat. >=(
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Pat S.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
Now all this begs the question. How does this apply to roll20? For this thread to stay open and not be closed by the mods, this thread has to pertain to roll20 somehow. They have closed threads similar to this and will probably close this one also if you do not tie all this into how playing a kender is involved in use of roll20. It is in their code of conduct that unless it is related to roll20, you should post this in another forum that is specific to your question such as the wizards of the coast forums, or pazio forums.
Here you go, tieing it back to roll 20. Have your DM get the Blind Roll Script and do a macro for your abilities. This is what I use: /w GM Hammad Picks Pockets ?{Who?|"-"} @{pickpocket} % !broll 1D100 This sends the roll only to the DM and unless you are doing it constantly, you will never find the guy who carries and Asp in his pouch...
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Pat S.
Forum Champion
Sheet Author
That is a nice macro and usable for a thief also.
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Gid
Roll20 Team
This thread is off-topic for our site. We only permit discussion that is specific to Roll20 (which you can read about in our Code of Conduct ). Since this is a general RPG question, you'd be better served posting it on a general RPG site, like reddit.com/r/rpg.