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UDL 1.0 Updates, Bugs, & Feedback

Deciding which VTT to use moving forward is where I'm at too, unfortunately. Laurent said: It doesn't make me very nervous, no. But I do hope that LDL will stay until I finish my current campaign. And then I'll decide which VTT I will use for the next one. It is not the end of the world.
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Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Bug: Lights don't center on token after snapping to grid I don't know how long this one has been active, but has been possible since December 31. If the token snaps to the grid when it is dropped, the light does not center on the token's new location. (animated GIF)
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Edited 1613053882
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Ctrl+L hides everything if active when switch from LDL to UDL During testing, I have had UDL fail to load when switching between LDL and UDL or&nbsp; "crashed" 3 different times during testing. This mostly occurred while switching between LDL and UDL or leaving the tab and coming back. The VTT went black, and when I selected the token and clicked Ctrl+L, it would show the entire contents of the VTT instead of just what that token could see. I had to refresh the browser tab to reset things. This seems to be caused by having Ctrl+L in effect in LDL during the switch from LDL to UDL. I updated my original post with links to the bugs. <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9742623/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9742623/</a>
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Brian C. said: What would an ideal torch look like?.... I'm not sure there is a single answer that will make all people happy here. If I want my map to look pretty and be immersive, then I want a way to specify a general diffuse light in a hallway with torches which light the areas directly around them.&nbsp; Basically I want to be able to have large area of constant dim light, and then small areas of bright light which lessens to nothing further from the torch.&nbsp; Which is somewhat the opposite of my current options. I wouldn't want a bunch of weird sharp boundaries where things fade out, and I don't want to have to either make all my torches overlap or leave weird diamonds of complete blackness. However, if you want to follow 5e RAW - then you need something like Brain's last picture.&nbsp; Though, honestly - at that point why not just throw some auras on the light sources if that's what you need? In a more general sense - you could probably make *most* people happy with a couple more sliders. - Add a slider for "bright light" so you can have light that's relatively dim, but that doesn't lessen as it gets further from the source. - Add a second adjustment for dim light beyond what's apparently currently on dev.&nbsp; Either let people set both a starting and ending value, or set a starting value and the rate at which the light drops off to 0.
1613088091
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Sean G. said: Brian C. said: What would an ideal torch look like?.... I'm not sure there is a single answer that will make all people happy here. Maybe, but I wanted to throw in something a bit different to what we had seen before that might be useful to spark discussion. Maybe it was too much of a tangent. I do think a Dynamic Lighting system made by Roll20 can make most everyone happy, but it needs to meet the needs of the customers. Unfortunately, UDL still handles a lot of things worse than LDL.
Wint said: The only reason I think many of us use roll20 anymore is sunk costs and the fact that it still holds up against its competition, which is a sad state more on other VTT's than it is praise of roll20. For me it's sunk cost only: for myself, having spent lots of dollars on Marketplace products and time/energy on using API to enhance my games, and my players, who are only just now (after over two years) getting comfortable with Roll20. VTT Foundry looks really good and if Roll20 keeps on like it's doing, I'll switch at some point, even if it means starting from scratch knowledge-wise and making my players learn a new system.&nbsp;
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Edited 1613101815
Farling said: Is there any reason that the first implementation of UDL didn't simply try to recreate all the LDL using new technology without making any visible changes for the user? And then, as subsequent steps, start introducing new/better/different ways of doing things? This would have allowed LDL to be retired much more quickly. At this point, I can only guess the reason is incompetence. The fact that they could roll out UDL last year with darkvision essentially broken -- a HUGE issue for 5E players, which constitute a large percentage of their total customer base -- tells me the developers don't understand their own code well enough to develop a new feature based on the old code without breaking things left and right. And further, as WebCoder has pointed out, Roll20 as a company has very little idea of how their product is actually used by customers, and no amount of customer feedback will break their perpetual amnesia. Every time they release a new feature, it's like we're in Memento, and all long-term memory of past mistakes of process has been lost.&nbsp; This slider thing. I'm actually embarrassed for Roll20. It reeks of no long-term plan except forcing customers to adhere to a release cycle geared strictly to dollars and blue-sky projections, and no healthy product release process. If the slider was a planned feature, why not tell users about it in advance, maybe hype it so it has time to undergo testing and give people something to look forward to? I can guess why: it was probably pulled out of someone's rear end, a hasty and sloppy decision made without proper oversight or reflection that will likely break more aspects of UDL down the road. Calling Roll20's internal development process a gong show is an insult to gongs. One last note: complacency will eventually kill any business, no matter how prosperous it seems to be at the moment. Even three years ago, the alternatives to Roll20 were limited and lacking. That is no longer the case. They had better be paying attention.
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Jay R. said: . VTT Foundry looks really good and if Roll20 keeps on like it's doing, I'll switch at some point, even if it means starting from scratch knowledge-wise and making my players learn a new system.&nbsp; For me there was some sunk cost, but its like hitting your head against a brick wall - its great when it stops.&nbsp; The integration with DnD beyond is much better as well if you have anything there. It didnt take me long to convert and teach my players the new layout - and they are having so much more fun with soooo many more possibilities. AND the cost was the same as 1 year of Plus account. Lighting works, terrain walls, windows, one way walls, doors.&nbsp; I even just discovered you can set wall heights so if you fly you see over things (or under things). Walls that block sound (plus basically everything else in the suggestions list - incl custom compendiums).&nbsp; Devs that give feedback, documentation on updates and you dont have to update until you actually want to - so no broken macros or token menu mods 5 mins before game time. You wont regret it.
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Edited 1613110112
Wint
Plus
As a reminder to some folks, this process is going on three years of development and started with what was originally just supposed to be a performance update. But the changes they made messed with dynamic lighting and fog of war, so they reverted it, then changed it back again, then introduced Advanced Fog of War which was supposed to fix all of the issue but didn't really address any of them, and after hotfixing and muddling through that eventually started working on UDL, which is how we've come to "UDL 1.0". This isn't roll20 randomly, or purposefully either, decided to change how dynamic lighting works in game — it's instead been a series of bandaids and patches to fix issues stemming from previous hotfixes. So saying "why don't they just replicate how LDL handles x " is always going to be a non-starter. The only reason we even have LDL as it exists currently is because the backlash to the initial performance changes was such that it forced their hand.
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I have been using Roll20 for serveral years now too, and yeah, I have stayed away from UDL as well just like Aisia mentions (I did have a look to see the difference, but all the bugs really did not entice me to be a test monkey, instead I just want to play), but weeks ago, I ran into issues where players would not see anything but black in LDL anymore. Switching off DL for that session seemed to work (it was outside), but I had the same thing crop up in our last game again. This time switching DL off and back on again worked (we were in a map where the wall are rather important). All of this is with global illumination on. For me the thing where UDL cannot be used to accurately represent how darkvision works in 5e is a big turnoff. Sure, we could use it, but I won't ditch that and have to "homerule" it (to work diffrently than RAW 5e) while we can just keep the 5e functionality by using LDL. Things with the thickness of lines, and the boatload of separate issues really keep me from even feeling like I would want to change for now though, even if the first issue was solved. I tried converting one game back in the day when you first announced the "parity" only to run into the issues described by many already. Since then, I have resorted to keeping with LDL and keeping an eye on how things develop before i am willing to try again. Also, huge thanks to all the folks who have put in so much of their PRIVATE time and effort to give incredibly detailed and well presented information on the issues that are there. Alisia Lanet said: I think this is the new thread, hope it is. Been a user of Roll20 for a few years (and been avoiding UDL like the plague because of everything I've read that's going/has gone wrong with it) but a couple weeks or three weeks ago when I ran a session, there was some lag in map loading as well as delay for it to register to my players I had changed maps. Then a week or two ago when I ran a game again (as we figured maybe there was a lot of people using Roll20 to explain the lag), I was told by my players that their tokens no longer had vision and only saw black. I have stayed with the LDL. So I turned off Dynamic Lighting all together because, after reading all the bug and glitches that people had/have happening from the other 2 threads, I didn't want to have to try and spend time resetting vision for all my players and their pets if it might just glitch again. I've never had this happen before. I'm now using basic FOW with manual reveal of area's for the players to ensure they can see things. (This is also a problem with LDL messing up since my computer is a beast of a tower. I read specs off to a friend who knows technology speak and he called it a sick beast and praised me on having such a strong system. Told him the builder of the system told me it could play most AAA games and he confirmed this based on the stats I read off from the system information)
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Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Total Light value calculated incorrectly Someone is not checking inputs, because despite today's release note, there is at least one scenario that has occurred for at least a month where the Total Light value is not updated correctly and is corrupting the data the user entered. <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9800084/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9800084/</a> 1. Start with a token that has a value in bright light but has bright light turned off. In this case, the value is 20 feet. 2. Change the value in the low light field. In this case, the value was changed to 100 feet. 3. The TLV is updated to the sum of both. In this case, TLV becomes 120 feet. But that's not all, if you save the token at that point, it stores the TL value into the Low Light Distance, so the Low Light Distance in this case becomes 120 feet. And the light is cast that distance. 100 feet bright light on the left; 120 feet low light on the right.
1613157381
Katie Mae
Roll20 Team
Hi all! Thank you for your patience as we go through all the feedback in this thread. I’ll reply to some of the questions and concerns soon, but here are the bugs I’m adding to our ongoing list:&nbsp; LDL Troubles CTL+L Crash On Page Switch&nbsp; Total Light Value Error Token Snap Lighting&nbsp; Lighting Break Line
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I can also point out that overlapping night vision doesn't just break the grid (though losing the grid is super annoying and the most game breaking aspect). You also lose fx: And circles and freehand drawings on the dynamic lighting layer.
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Edited 1613224069
Wint said: As a reminder to some folks, this process is going on three years of development and started with what was originally just supposed to be a performance update. But the changes they made messed with dynamic lighting and fog of war, so they reverted it, then changed it back again, then introduced Advanced Fog of War which was supposed to fix all of the issue but didn't really address any of them, and after hotfixing and muddling through that eventually started working on UDL, which is how we've come to "UDL 1.0". This isn't roll20 randomly, or purposefully either, decided to change how dynamic lighting works in game — it's instead been a series of bandaids and patches to fix issues stemming from previous hotfixes. So saying "why don't they just replicate how LDL handles x " is always going to be a non-starter. The only reason we even have LDL as it exists currently is because the backlash to the initial performance changes was such that it forced their hand. Excellent points, sadly. There is no discernible development process, just hack/patch jobs in response to previous hack/patch jobs. Which partly explains why the code base is so unstable. I strongly suspect that the reason we never see any kind of long-term development plan is because it literally doesn't exist. Decisions seem to be made reactively, with no clear idea of the big picture, in response to what are likely arbitrary deadlines set by executive and marketing, driven by quarterly numbers rather than by customer feedback. That's why we get blithely idiotic proclamations that UDL is "now" at 1.0 when a sorrier mess of half-baked features, bugs, and performance has rarely been seen in recent memory. That 1.0 tag isn't for us; it's for profit margins and corporate interests. But we're all supposed to play along and accept that Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. The AFoW debacle really soured things for me. Not only did Roll20 break the feature for literally months, they spent an equal amount of time telling customers that AFow was never intended to work the way it did prior to the "update." Eventually, they had to backtrack and acknowledge that the so-called update had left us with a worse product than before, but that acknowledgment didn't inspire confidence. Either they knowingly lied about the product, or they were so clueless that they didn't actually know what their own product did until they broke it. Neither one is a good look. At a conservative estimate, 90% of the value of this site comes not from Roll20 itself, but from a devoted community of customers and unpaid scripters whose tireless work makes the Pro subscription (barely) worth the money. It reveals an appalling laziness and complacency on the part of Roll20's executive. I guess it's become comfortable for them to sit on feature requests for literally years, while unpaid scripters labor to retain customers. Speaking personally, I'll say that were it not for the contributions of people like The Aaron, keithcurtis, Kurt J., and so on, I would have left Roll20 months ago.&nbsp;
Jay R. said: VTT Foundry looks really good and if Roll20 keeps on like it's doing, I'll switch at some point, even if it means starting from scratch knowledge-wise and making my players learn a new system.&nbsp; As long as you are happy with a lighting system that only works as per roll20's "update on drop". Foundry does not provide line-of-sight updates while a token is being dragged around.
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Ravenknight
KS Backer
Farling said: Jay R. said: VTT Foundry looks really good and if Roll20 keeps on like it's doing, I'll switch at some point, even if it means starting from scratch knowledge-wise and making my players learn a new system.&nbsp; As long as you are happy with a lighting system that only works as per roll20's "update on drop". Foundry does not provide line-of-sight updates while a token is being dragged around. That is incorrect Farling. Token Drag Vision is available in Foundry under Core Settings. It's just disabled by default.
Ravenknight said: Farling said: Jay R. said: VTT Foundry looks really good and if Roll20 keeps on like it's doing, I'll switch at some point, even if it means starting from scratch knowledge-wise and making my players learn a new system.&nbsp; As long as you are happy with a lighting system that only works as per roll20's "update on drop". Foundry does not provide line-of-sight updates while a token is being dragged around. That is incorrect Farling. Token Drag Vision is available in Foundry under Core Settings. It's just disabled by default. Wouldn't bother me either way, as I always use update on drop (for performance reasons and security reasons).&nbsp;
Last night I played in a friend's game, Rime of the Frostmaiden, which he purchased from Roll20. It's using the new lighting. In that game we usually spend around 1 hour of play time cumulatively trying to debug it. The most notable bugs were: When the DM would open a door, it was dark in the new room even if a player had their own light source. You had to move into the room for the lighting to update. So we'd move our tokens in to see, and then back out into the adjacent area to decide our actual course of action. For some but not all players, when the DM would change maps, their character token would lose sight in various and sundry ways: either a black screen, a kind of gray fog of war screen, or you'd start being able to see, and then when you moved the token, you'd lose sight. To solve this, the DM would load the player a new instance of their character token, and then we'd hard refresh the browser. As mentioned, there's new and exciting bugs in the lighting each time we play that game. It takes a real toll on immersion and pacing to constantly drop out of character to discuss who can see what, reboot Roll20, etc.
Currently do not have image of this due to the fact it happens during sessions and im trying to DM not trying to record UDL bugs. But for the last several weeks i am unable to use Explorer with UDL. when Turn ON if my players begin moving there tokens the UDL just turns off, only way to get it back is by reloading the page and turning off Explorer. This only occurs when someone other than me the DM moves there tokens on the map. It sucks bc this is only real way to easily do fog of war with the UDL but very Inconvenient when i the DM have to keep reloading to get the lighting to turn back on. if i do reload and the UDL comes back on, as soon as players move tokens the UDL turns back off due to Explorer still being TURN ON.&nbsp; my UDL works fine but if i turn Explorer ON thats when this new UDL breaks for me every time. Thats why i want UDL is for that fog of war, bc LDL with advanced fog of war as always been just as buggy. If anyone else is seeing this bug in your own games, help me to spread the word, and im gonna do my best to get some picture and video of this bug in my own game next time it occurs.&nbsp;
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Edited 1613469497
Wil
Plus
I want to add my findings to one of the under investigation issues and hopefully give some other players a workaround. It concerns:&nbsp; VISIBILITY: We’ve received reports of Players and GMs losing their sight, or experiencing tokens disappearing, after moving specific tokens. ( 1 , 2 , 3 ) [STATUS: INVESTIGATING] After experiencing this in a number of games lately I went to investigate and found a possible cause. It did not happen on every map, but it did happen on multiple pregenerated maps coming from the Descent into Avernus module I am running. Going through token options I found that every map I experienced it in had at least one token on de map that still contained an entry in the Legacy Lighting tab. For example a Drow token example as seen below.&nbsp; This is of course an older implementation of darkvision from Legacy Lighting.&nbsp; Removing this entry entirely from every token on the map seemed to have fixed the issue I experienced on those maps. At least in my tests, still need to confirm it with my players.&nbsp; I hope this insight helps as a workaround as well as a possible lead for a solution.
Marcel said: Jay R. said: . VTT Foundry looks really good and if Roll20 keeps on like it's doing, I'll switch at some point, even if it means starting from scratch knowledge-wise and making my players learn a new system.&nbsp; For me there was some sunk cost, but its like hitting your head against a brick wall - its great when it stops.&nbsp; The integration with DnD beyond is much better as well if you have anything there. It didnt take me long to convert and teach my players the new layout - and they are having so much more fun with soooo many more possibilities. AND the cost was the same as 1 year of Plus account. Lighting works, terrain walls, windows, one way walls, doors.&nbsp; I even just discovered you can set wall heights so if you fly you see over things (or under things). Walls that block sound (plus basically everything else in the suggestions list - incl custom compendiums).&nbsp; Devs that give feedback, documentation on updates and you dont have to update until you actually want to - so no broken macros or token menu mods 5 mins before game time. You wont regret it. This comment finally pushed me over the edge to seriously investigate buying/hosting Foundry and leaving this functionality graveyard. As a software engineer myself, it's truly frustrating to see the way this has all been handled. Roll20 has so much potential and usefulness that is continuously squandered by poor management and development practices.
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Katie Mae
Roll20 Team
Hi folks! Crawling out from under my meetings based rock to announce that the Dim Light Slider is live for all. This push to live includes a bug fix for the line breaking between bright light and low light. I'm currently going through and collecting all the feedback given over the weekend, and as always feedback on new features like this are greatly appreciated!&nbsp;
Greyed out Page Reveal BUG: I have a bug that seems to be a common one not yet resolved. Looking for any help or assistance, but I think I've pinned down what triggers the bug.&nbsp; I'm DMing a Dungeon of the Mad Mage game, and my players consistently have the whole or parts of the map revealed to them even when they haven't explored it yet. I have updated dynamic lighting on and use the explorer mode (so hopefully the players can track where they've been.) When I drag my players to a map page and then place their tokens on the page, the lighting and vision seems to work. But as soon as I drag them to another page and return to the original, the map is revealed and vision goes bonkers. It also seems that if tokens are placed on the map before I drag the players to a page, vision starts off bonkers.&nbsp; I've tried to login as a player and view through multiple different tokens, and it doesn't seem to show much of an issue. I've had my players try several different internet browsers. And when I use the CTRL+L while as a DM that doesn't seem to work and give crazy results.&nbsp; The players describe the page revealed as greyed out as if they've explored the whole map. Any help or updates on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Sir Lennon said: Greyed out Page Reveal BUG: I have a bug that seems to be a common one not yet resolved. Looking for any help or assistance, but I think I've pinned down what triggers the bug.&nbsp; I'm DMing a Dungeon of the Mad Mage game, and my players consistently have the whole or parts of the map revealed to them even when they haven't explored it yet. I have updated dynamic lighting on and use the explorer mode (so hopefully the players can track where they've been.) When I drag my players to a map page and then place their tokens on the page, the lighting and vision seems to work. But as soon as I drag them to another page and return to the original, the map is revealed and vision goes bonkers. It also seems that if tokens are placed on the map before I drag the players to a page, vision starts off bonkers.&nbsp; I've tried to login as a player and view through multiple different tokens, and it doesn't seem to show much of an issue. I've had my players try several different internet browsers. And when I use the CTRL+L while as a DM that doesn't seem to work and give crazy results.&nbsp; The players describe the page revealed as greyed out as if they've explored the whole map. Any help or updates on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Probably related to the Explorer Mode failures that others have reported. Try disabling this option.
I'd appreciate if it was a little more streamlined and user friendly without any redundancies. Thanks for all the work so far, Roll20 Team!
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It looks like players now see their night vision color tint/sharpness in dim light as well as darkness.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't see that in the notes, but pretty sure that's new?&nbsp; I'm assuming it's intentional? That seems useful for 5e rules.&nbsp; But definitely is a change from before. And now makes the overlapping nightvision/grid thing totally gamebreaking.&nbsp; Because before it was only an issue when my players were in absolute darkness - which they tend not to do very often. But now I'm going to have to play without a grid anywhere there isn't bright light.
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Katie Mae
Roll20 Team
Hi everyone!&nbsp; If you have not already seen the news, we have announced the Sunset Date for Legacy Dynamic Lighting: May 18th, 2021 . I highly recommend reading the blog post about this announcement, which can be found here .&nbsp; Some of the most important things to address that I would like to reiterate in this thread are:&nbsp; We have committed to solving the following issues before we sunset LDL: Page Reveal, Settings Not Saving, Jagged Lines, Lag, and Night Vision.&nbsp; We will release fixes for the following issues sometime after LDL Sunset, if not before: The Ring/Bullseye Effect, Page Freezing, Grid Disappearance, and Token Visibility.&nbsp; Marketplace Creators: Our team will be working with you to ensure ease of transition from LDL to UDL. More information is in the announcement.&nbsp; This deprecation does NOT apply to Standard Fog Of War. I know there are some in this thread who still don’t feel UDL is right for their games, whether it be because of current issues or difference in functionality from LDL. All I ask is that we keep responses in this thread respectful and on topic, and that you keep an eye on this space as the VTT team continues to work on UDL.&nbsp; We also ask that you continue to submit any bug reports or problems you experience using UDL, so that the VTT team can prioritize using your feedback.&nbsp; As always, I’m here to take feedback and answer questions you may have.
Cue lots of angry people in 3... 2... 1...
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Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Adding on to this one, if the bright light value is blank, the combined value is blanked. Saving the token sets both bright and low light fields to 0. Brian C. said: Total Light value calculated incorrectly Someone is not checking inputs, because despite today's release note, there is at least one scenario that has occurred for at least a month where the Total Light value is not updated correctly and is corrupting the data the user entered. <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9800084/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9800084/</a> 1. Start with a token that has a value in bright light but has bright light turned off. In this case, the value is 20 feet. 2. Change the value in the low light field. In this case, the value was changed to 100 feet. 3. The TLV is updated to the sum of both. In this case, TLV becomes 120 feet. But that's not all, if you save the token at that point, it stores the TL value into the Low Light Distance, so the Low Light Distance in this case becomes 120 feet. And the light is cast that distance. 100 feet bright light on the left; 120 feet low light on the right.
1613608808
Wint
Plus
UDL is not ready for prime time and I will be leaving the platform if you force this change.
I switched over to UDL pretty much immediately and I haven't seen any problems with it. There are some features it has over LDL, like vision modifiers, the&nbsp;UI is easier to understand when teaching it to my players who try DMing, and it objectively looks better than legacy, which was really ugly when looking at some walls (caves especially). The two reasons I can think that people would ever stick to it is because it will not be subject to any new bugs, which UDL sometimes has when new features are added in, and because the auto-converter isnt 100% accurate (or at least it wasn't when I used it on a Curse of Strahd module a few months ago and had to manually edit a setting or two on each map). The auto-converter won't be needed when LDL is gone and for the new bugs, I recommend a new setting in the Game Settings tab on the landing page that you can tick off auto-updates, so once someone has found a stable update that works best for them, they can play their whole campaign with those exact settings and don't need to bother keeping up with the happenings of Roll20 until they make a new game or hear about a really good feature in a recent update. I don't know how possible this recommendation would be with your infrastructure and especially as a website instead of an app, but I think it would suit everyone's needs and keep most &nbsp;people up to date.
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Edited 1613633171
ThorN
Plus
Hi, I have been and am still currently experiencing persistent issues with certain sub-aspects of the Updated Dynamic Lighting system (namely vision/lamp directionality) being lost, 'lost', and/or rendered inaccessible until the upper governing switch is toggled off then on again, &nbsp;and the subsystem is subsequently re-enabled. With a large number of hooded signal lamps or other directional sources on a map, this glitch can become rather tedious.&nbsp; Having to select each token upon entering a map and flip multiple switches in the settings so they can once again&nbsp; have the capability&nbsp; to be narrowed into a cone can take quite a while. It's not fun for players or the DM when large swaths of secret map get revealed by broken (circular) lights, either.&nbsp; If Explorer Mode is on, this sometimes necessitates a full explorable-darkness resets between sessions on a single map to fix all the areas mistakenly illuminated, eliminating apparent progress for the sake of future game surprise integrity.&nbsp; This is a major time sink and I do not look forward to delaying games to relight my fully-mastered areas which should need no further changes outside of play. This is a severe,&nbsp; gamebreaking,&nbsp; irregularly-repeating issue with a long,&nbsp; repetitive workaround and it is not always the same toggle causing the problems.&nbsp; Sometimes token vision becomes 360° regardless of prior setting until the above reset is performed, and this is suboptimal in survival-horror or low-light campaigns where FOV and line-of-lamp are important. Hoping some fix is forthcoming,&nbsp; An old hand DM with anxiety about their upcoming maps Additional note: pressing 'save' after entering the token lighting tab (if the directionality submenu is missing) without performing the reset to reengage the menu appears to drop the light-directionality settings for that token on the map until the above reset is performed. Sometimes. Further note: changing values in the UDL page without resetting the expandable menus while they are missing appears to cause the aforementioned settings drop on the map.
1613619217
Titus
Plus
It is still unclear and unsaid if dim night vision overlapping with dim light will equal bright light. Can anyone confirm please?...
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Edited 1613635740
ThorN
Plus
Addendum to the missing-option workaround posted above, I have been able to locate an easily-repeatable example of the directionality-loss bug to which it applies Below: functional directional dim light Let's increase the brightness: (Note there is no directional lighting present) Results of pressing save: Increased brightness (expected result), absence of direction (unexpected side-effect). Situation resolved through above method (uncheck, check relevant lighting toggle to reveal drawer; enable directional toggle; save), result below: edit: order of operations in the workaround Addendum: I replaced &nbsp;well over 45 bullseye spot lamps today on my next map with fresh 'Lamp character' tokens to try out the new brightness slider rather than try to edit each one's slider and have to go through the fix above to avoid the glitch herein every time I wanted to change the levels on certain pieces. It would have taken significantly longer. This is a serious issue for a lighting engine.
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ThorN
Plus
Titus said: It is still unclear and unsaid if dim night vision overlapping with dim light will equal bright light. Can anyone confirm please?... Not seeing any bright light here, at least in token view. The lamp in my pictures is dim, and I added dimming to the night vision and took the same shot as above to test (These are all in Ctrl/Cmd+L vision mode).
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When the creators approve the UDL-changes, will they be available as patch for existing games? In this way the game master can wait until the patch comes out and then switch to UDL.
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Edited 1613648456
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Katie Mae said: Hi everyone!&nbsp; If you have not already seen the news, we have announced the Sunset Date for Legacy Dynamic Lighting: May 18th, 2021 . I highly recommend reading the blog post about this announcement, which can be found here .&nbsp; Some of the most important things to address that I would like to reiterate in this thread are:&nbsp; We have committed to solving the following issues before we sunset LDL: Page Reveal, Settings Not Saving, Jagged Lines, Lag, and Night Vision .&nbsp; We will release fixes for the following issues sometime after LDL Sunset, if not before: The Ring/Bullseye Effect, Page Freezing, Grid Disappearance, and Token Visibility.&nbsp; Marketplace Creators: Our team will be working with you to ensure ease of transition from LDL to UDL. More information is in the announcement.&nbsp; This deprecation does NOT apply to Standard Fog Of War. I know there are some in this thread who still don’t feel UDL is right for their games, whether it be because of current issues or difference in functionality from LDL. All I ask is that we keep responses in this thread respectful and on topic, and that you keep an eye on this space as the VTT team continues to work on UDL.&nbsp; We also ask that you continue to submit any bug reports or problems you experience using UDL, so that the VTT team can prioritize using your feedback.&nbsp; As always, I’m here to take feedback and answer questions you may have. A few questions: What happens if the items Roll20 has committed to fixing before May 18 are not fixed by that date or new, game-breaking bugs are introduced in the meantime? What date is the automated patch of marketplace products taking place? Given the changes in behavior in UDL (especially the change to how walls block light&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9743017/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9743017/</a> ) any automated process is going to be insufficient, and I now have several dozen products to update manually over the next 6 (possibly less depending on when the products receive the initial patch). What algorithm is being used for patching our marketplace products? Is it different than the Convert Tool's algorithm? Are the deficiencies in the Convert Tool's algorithm going to be fixed?&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9743305/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9743305/</a> Are marketplace creators expected to release products between now and April 2 solely under UDL even though UDL is still a moving target in terms of game-breaking bugs, performance, and behavior? Releasing a new product under LDL with UDL fully set up is not possible given that LDL and UDL render the map with significant differences, but releasing under LDL means that the product will have missed the initial patch. What's the rush? Why not first fix the bugs that Roll20 has committed to fix and ensure that no new bugs are introduced before giving us 3 months to convert games and products? The sunsetting process has already been going on for 6 months ( <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9072910/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9072910/</a> ), what's a few more months to make sure UDL is actually stable before forcing a change? How is fixing jagged vision lines with antialiasing going to remove the jagged edges sticking out from straight walls (seen at 3 and 4) as well as where the vision goes past the edge of the line (seen to the left of 4)? &nbsp;(click to zoom)
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Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Bug: Polygons don't block light at the first corner With the change to how DL walls block light from the edge instead of the center, walls now have a notch in the wall where the first point joins the last point. This happens with DL walls drawn with either the polygon or rectangle tools and occurs because of how closed polygons are rendered with the drawing tools.
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Edited 1613647670
Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Bug: Tokens can see through corners A token can see a little bit through the corner of DL lines. At point 1, the token can see a little bit behind the corner of the square. This seems to correspond to point 2 where the vision jumps back over to about where it "should" be.
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Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Bug: low light slider missing from game default settings The slider lets users set the brightness on a low light, but it has to be set for each light. Its setting is missing from the Game Default Settings. False alarm. I didn't activate low light as the default for all tokens to see the slider. By the way for anyone who cares: the slider has 17 positions. If you number them 0 to 16, position 5 is equivalent to LDL's dim light.
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Katie Mae said: Hi everyone!&nbsp; If you have not already seen the news, we have announced the Sunset Date for Legacy Dynamic Lighting: May 18th, 2021 . I highly recommend reading the blog post about this announcement, which can be found here .&nbsp; Rinse and repeat roll20: You set a deadline which you 100% won´t make and I already predict that you will rather sunset LDL while UDL is still buggy than admitting the mistake.&nbsp; What´s the point of these decisions?&nbsp; I would honestly pay money to be once part of a meeting that leads to these decisions.&nbsp;
Three months. Confidence levels currently at: Logan Paul beats Floyd Mayweather in a boxing match. Godspeed and good luck, Roll20.&nbsp; Katie Mae said: I know there are some in this thread who still don’t feel UDL is right for their games, whether it be because of current issues or difference in functionality from LDL. All I ask is that we keep responses in this thread respectful and on topic, and that you keep an eye on this space as the VTT team continues to work on UDL.&nbsp; We also ask that you continue to submit any bug reports or problems you experience using UDL, so that the VTT team can prioritize using your feedback.&nbsp;
Time to check out VTT Foundry.
I seriously can not understand these decisions for the life of me. Hundreds of posts in the previous bug report thread, many quality posts in this one outlining the game-breaking bugs still in the UDL system, such as the map spontaneously being revealed to all players. I have never successfully used the UDL system without experiencing serious problems. And now you decide that magically in 3 months all of those problems will be fixed. This is a terrible decision.
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Christopher K
Plus
Marketplace Creator
Brian C. said: 5. What's the rush? Why not first fix the bugs that Roll20 has committed to fix and ensure that no new bugs are introduced before giving us 3 months to convert games and products? The sunsetting process has already been going on for 6 months ( <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9072910/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9072910/</a> ), what's a few more months to make sure UDL is actually stable before forcing a change? This. Look, I'm well aware things go wrong during development and sometimes fixing one bug births triplets somewhere else down the line, so I really can empathize with the frustration of the process. HOWEVER, in this case, your deadlines are all self imposed. You are your own client and vendor. This could all have been avoided, including the toxic comments and a lot of players jumping ship, had you just said "hey guys, we're working on major improvements to the lighting system and they're going to take some time, so we'll keep you posted". Instead, you effectively threatened the user base multiple times that everything that worked would just go away. If I could just make a suggestion - Keep taking suggestions, but STOP promising sunsets. They only work to frustrate and scare the userbase. Think for just a moment at what you're saying to the users: "The cutoff is approaching. You can't go back. Oh, and by the way, the new one doesn't work, but we're still switching over on that day". This isn't a AAA video game release, so please stop emulating the worst aspects of their releases. Learn something from the Cyberpunk disaster. Instead of making and shifting promises you can't keep, tease the cool stuff, take feedback from those that are willing to subject themselves to a beta and launch when, AND ONLY WHEN, it's ready.
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Brian C. said: A few questions: What happens if the items Roll20 has committed to fixing before May 18 are not fixed by that date or new, game-breaking bugs are introduced in the meantime? What's the rush? Why not first fix the bugs that Roll20 has committed to fix and ensure that no new bugs are introduced before giving us 3 months to convert games and products? The sunsetting process has already been going on for 6 months ( <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9072910/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/9072910/</a> ), what's a few more months to make sure UDL is actually stable before forcing a change? I echo Brian's questions and concerns -- especially the two I quote above. Roll20's track record on this project is not good. What makes you think that this goal will be reached on time? This certainly seems to be a case of cart before the horse. What harm would be done if you commit to fixing the bugs (note: not adding new features) first, then set a sunset date for LDL 4 weeks after UDL is accepted as bug-free for the vast majority of users?
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Katie Mae
Roll20 Team
Brian C. said: Bug: low light slider missing from game default settings The slider lets users set the brightness on a low light, but it has to be set for each light. Its setting is missing from the Game Default Settings. By the way for anyone who cares: the slider has 17 positions. If you number them 0 to 16, position 5 is equivalent to LDL's dim light. Hi Brian! I'm doing bug collection for UDL today. Just to confirm, are you unable to see the brightness option in the game default settings? If so, do you mind if I reach out and get the game link to the game you're experiencing this issue in? (I've attached a screenshot for clarity.)&nbsp; &nbsp;
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Brian C.
Pro
Marketplace Creator
Compendium Curator
Katie Mae said: Brian C. said: Bug: low light slider missing from game default settings The slider lets users set the brightness on a low light, but it has to be set for each light. Its setting is missing from the Game Default Settings. Hi Brian! I'm doing bug collection for UDL today. Just to confirm, are you unable to see the brightness option in the game default settings? If so, do you mind if I reach out and get the game link to the game you're experiencing this issue in? (I've attached a screenshot for clarity.)&nbsp; &nbsp; Ah, of course, I had to turn on Low Light as the default for all tokens to see the slider. Turning off low light afterwards and saving keeps the default slider position, so that works. Thanks.
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Switched to UDL When moving drawing lines with alt + arrow keys, you will navigate off the game page. This does not happen when moving tokens with alt + arrow keys.
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Angelo
API Scripter
i cannot believe they announced the sunset of LDL with the current state of the new lighting and after countless posts on bugs and feedbacks. And of course no one replied to what's gonna happen if they don't fix what they consider a "must" before that date. It would be nice to get an official response on why the sunset was announced now instead of waiting at least until their musts are fixed.