[PARANOIA 25th Anniversary Edition] Feedback/support thread

Friend Computer would like you to know that Roll20 just accepted my custom character sheet for PARANOIA 25th Anniversary Edition, which is now available to play by all INFRARED citizens! High Programmers in the DEV sector has requested you to fill the ROLL20-CHARACTERSHEET-FEEDBACK-V1 form after completing your normal duties for the current day for any feedback or complaint about this character sheet that you may have. Friend Computer would also like to remind you that submitting incorrect information on forms is treason. Have a nice happy-happy-fun-fun-make-believe time period, citizen!

By the way, I wrote on my blog a quick summary of the challenges I faced while creating this character sheet: <a href="https://www.debigare.com/creating-a-paranoia-25th-anniversary-edition-character-sheet-for-roll20/" rel="nofollow">https://www.debigare.com/creating-a-paranoia-25th-anniversary-edition-character-sheet-for-roll20/</a>

Thats a good article. I wouldnt mind reading about the specifics in some of those bullet points.

Thanks GiGs! Anything specific in mind that you would like to hear in more details? By the way, thanks again for answering my questions back when I started this project two months ago!

Interesting article! Like GiGs, I'd be interested in hearing more about some bullet points, like the CSS compatibility . I added a link to it on the wiki page, so others might find it browsing the documentation. <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Building_Character_Sheets#See_Also" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Building_Character_Sheets#See_Also</a> Roll20's technical documentation, while very detailed, is really frustrating to use as the menus don't work properly for some reason, and search engines constantly return links to the community-maintained wiki instead. I hope you noticed that the community wiki version is far more extensive on the Char sheet creation part, and didn't actually rely primarily on the Help Center version. The community(mostly me) keeps updating the Community Wiki when it comes to Char Sheet Creation.

ᐰndreas J. said: Interesting article! Like GiGs, I'd be interested in hearing more about some bullet points, like the CSS compatibility . Glad you like it! For CSS compatibility specifically, the main issues were: Unexpected outcomes from Roll20's base CSS, which does not appear to be documented outside of the existence of the row, col, 2colrow and 3colrow classes. Lack of usable IDs in the DOM for element visibility shenanigans. Implementing sibling combinator selectors due to the way Roll20 forces some elements to be children of others to be functional. ᐰndreas J. said: I added a link to it on the wiki page, so others might find it browsing the documentation. <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Building_Character_Sheets#See_Also" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Building_Character_Sheets#See_Also</a> Thanks! I'm planning to revise it in the near future with the additional information I'm providing in this thread as well! ᐰndreas J. said: I hope you noticed that the community wiki version is far more extensive on the Char sheet creation part, and didn't actually rely primarily on the Help Center version. The community(mostly me) keeps updating the Community Wiki when it comes to Char Sheet Creation. I didn't notice the wiki was more extensive outside of user-shared tricks to solve common problems like the Reusing Rolls and CSS Wizardry pages, which incidentally turned out to be the only two pages of the wiki that I ended up using. In fact, I actively avoided using the wiki because I kept missing critical information in it due to its layout and apparent lack of proper structure, and also because I wanted to make sure that the technical information I was reading was official and accurate. For example, I'm concerned that the Reusing Rolls trick might break in the future since it does not appear to be officially documented, and the only reason I implemented it was because I had no other alternative and my character sheet couldn't work without it. To clarify, it was clear that Roll20 copied the wiki at some point into their Zendesk instance (kudos to you for that), and I worked under the assumption that they used it as a base for their technical writing afterwards.

SmashManiac said: To clarify, it was clear that Roll20 copied the wiki at some point into their Zendesk instance (kudos to you for that), and I worked under the assumption that they used it as a base for their technical writing afterwards. Yes, the Zendesk pages are just old copies of the wiki pages from when the helpdesk was created, minus the updates of the last year. I'm credited as a major contributor on this page: <a href="https://help.roll20.net/hc/en-us/articles/360037773393-Building-Character-Sheets" rel="nofollow">https://help.roll20.net/hc/en-us/articles/360037773393-Building-Character-Sheets</a> But really the help center so behind on this, that it's a nuisance, like you ended up looking at the wrong documentation. Had you asked anyone in the community, we would have clarified that the community wiki pages are the thing to read. Glad you like it! For CSS compatibility specifically, the main issues were: Unexpected outcomes from Roll20's base CSS, which does not appear to be documented outside of the existence of the row, col, 2colrow and 3colrow classes. Lack of usable IDs in the DOM for element visibility shenanigans. Implementing sibling combinator selectors due to the way Roll20 forces some elements to be children of others to be functional. Yeah, it's never had documentation, but as more modern methods are better to use, nobody have bothered to dig up and check exactly how they work. Mmmh, those who actually have webdev background from before roll20 have problems with it, but it's documented and well known. Seems Roll20 is just about to update the sheet system which would enable use of IDs. Yeah they are needed in several "tricks", and if we wouldn't have our restrictions, would assume most things could be done in a more clear way. I've seen man who start with this stuff stumble with it due to never properly learning how it works when they copy examples from places like CSS Wizardry.

ᐰndreas J. said: But really the help center so behind on this, that it's a nuisance, like you ended up looking at the wrong documentation. Had you asked anyone in the community, we would have clarified that the community wiki pages are the thing to read. I mean... the wiki itself says to refer to the Help Center for the most up-to-date information on top of every relevant page... ᐰndreas J. said: Yeah, [Roll20's base CSS] never had documentation, but as more modern methods are better to use, nobody have bothered to dig up and check exactly how they work What do you mean exactly by "more modern methods"? I mean sure, I could have started my CSS with " * {all: initial;} " and use some other CSS code as a base, but I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to.

SmashManiac said: ᐰndreas J. said: But really the help center so behind on this, that it's a nuisance, like you ended up looking at the wrong documentation. Had you asked anyone in the community, we would have clarified that the community wiki pages are the thing to read. I mean... the wiki itself says to refer to the Help Center for the most up-to-date information on top of every relevant page... Yes its understandable for people to go the help centre because of that. Unfortunately roll20 own the wiki and put that alert one every page, because they want to drive people to the inferior zendesk site - which is not a community site, and the completely control it's contents. It's understandable why they would do that, but you should ignore that message.&nbsp; ᐰndreas J. &nbsp;said: Yeah, [Roll20's base CSS] never had documentation, but as more modern methods are better to use, nobody have bothered to dig up and check exactly how they work What do you mean exactly by "more modern methods"? I mean sure, I could have started my CSS with " * {all: initial;} " and use some other CSS code as a base, but I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to. I believe Andreas might be referring the roll20's inbuilt custom styles like col and 3col-row, which allow people to do layout of sheets with minimal CSS knowledge. But they were created before we had Grid and Flex, which are better layout options. (the inbuilt roll20 styles have some issues that can appear once you start making more complicated layouts.)

I just noticed that one translation string ("fallback_for") didn't make it through my final version due to Roll20 failing to return it with the i18nOutput browser command after my last edit. I just did a pull request for a patch. GiGs said: I believe Andreas might be referring the roll20's inbuilt custom styles like col and 3col-row, which allow people to do layout of sheets with minimal CSS knowledge. But they were created before we had Grid and Flex, which are better layout options. (the inbuilt roll20 styles have some issues that can appear once you start making more complicated layouts.) Ah that. Yeah I could have used my own Grids but I didn't want to bother doing fancy cosmetics so I just stuck with the basics. I also tried implementing Flexboxes for responsiveness but I realized too late that the elements wouldn't align correctly vertically and I didn't want to rewrite everything just to fix that so I gave up on that idea.

SmashManiac said: GiGs said: I believe Andreas might be referring the roll20's inbuilt custom styles like col and 3col-row, which allow people to do layout of sheets with minimal CSS knowledge. But they were created before we had Grid and Flex, which are better layout options. (the inbuilt roll20 styles have some issues that can appear once you start making more complicated layouts.) Ah that. Yeah I could have used my own Grids but I didn't want to bother doing fancy cosmetics so I just stuck with the basics. I also tried implementing Flexboxes for responsiveness but I realized too late that the elements wouldn't align correctly vertically and I didn't want to rewrite everything just to fix that so I gave up on that idea. The inbuilt styles tend to get disparaged on the forums (with good reason), but they still work well enough for simple layouts, and can make the css file really short.&nbsp;

SmashManiac said: ᐰndreas J. said: But really the help center so behind on this, that it's a nuisance, like you ended up looking at the wrong documentation. Had you asked anyone in the community, we would have clarified that the community wiki pages are the thing to read. I mean... the wiki itself says to refer to the Help Center for the most up-to-date information on top of every relevant page... On every relevant page, except pages related to Character sheet creation.Example: <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Building_Character_Sheets" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Building_Character_Sheets</a> Guess I should update the Common Mistakes sections to say "don't read the help center for char sheet creation." instead of the currently ambigious "read the documentation" point. I've removed the the disclaimers on those pages, and edited the general disclaimer on most pages to be more accurate, such as : <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/D%26D_5E_by_Roll20" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/D%26D_5E_by_Roll20</a> where it says: Attention: This Wiki page is community-maintained. For the official Roll20 version of this page, go to Roll20's Help Center for assistance: Here And yes, the D&amp;D5e by Roll20 char sheet info page on the wiki is better than whatever outdated exists on the help center. The inbuilt styles tend to get disparaged on the forums (with good reason), but they still work well enough for simple layouts, and can make the css file really short. Unlike GiGs, I'll just link to what the wiki says regarding them(basically the same): <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Designing_Character_Sheet_Layout#Roll20_columns.2Frows" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Designing_Character_Sheet_Layout#Roll20_columns.2Frows</a>

Roll20 has merged my bugfix for the missing "fallback_for" string, so everything should be good and dandy now. Hopefully they'll fix the bug in i18nOutput which caused this issue in the first place as well.

FYI I just updated my blog post with better formatting and some additional information: <a href="https://www.debigare.com/creating-a-paranoia-25th-anniversary-edition-character-sheet-for-roll20/" rel="nofollow">https://www.debigare.com/creating-a-paranoia-25th-anniversary-edition-character-sheet-for-roll20/</a> By the way, is it normal that I'm still not credited as a sheet author on my profile? I tried contacting Roll20 by email about this along with my i18nOutput bug report, but so far I got no response for either problem.

I think getting&nbsp; the sheet author tag should be automatic, if you have entered your roll20 id in the proper place in a sheet's JSON file. But you have done that so it's a puzzle. I wonder if the non-standard characters in the authors section is messing it up (but I don't understand why that would happen).&nbsp; Try contacting roll20 via a Help Center ticket here:&nbsp;<a href="https://help.roll20.net/hc/en-us/requests/new" rel="nofollow">https://help.roll20.net/hc/en-us/requests/new</a>

GiGs said: I wonder if the non-standard characters in the authors section is messing it up (but I don't understand why that would happen). Yeah this is the most plausible option I can think of. Don't remember this having failed previous.

GiGs said: I think getting&nbsp; the sheet author tag should be automatic, if you have entered your roll20 id in the proper place in a sheet's JSON file. But you have done that so it's a puzzle. I wonder if the non-standard characters in the authors section is messing it up (but I don't understand why that would happen).&nbsp; Try contacting roll20 via a Help Center ticket here:&nbsp; <a href="https://help.roll20.net/hc/en-us/requests/new" rel="nofollow">https://help.roll20.net/hc/en-us/requests/new</a> I did so exactly 2 weeks ago (ticket #44020 in case Roll20 staff reads this). Still no reply except for an automated message mentioning "a very large increase in ticket volume at this time which may extend the time on responses". I was under the impression that the process was manual based on the documentation, but if it's a JSON parsing bug due to the non-ASCII character in my name, it would indeed be pretty unusual. Then again, GitHub thinks I used ISO-8859-1 instead of UTF-8 even though it's a JSON file, so anything's possible.

I only mentioned it because there have been unusual character bugs with roll20's github before, so wondered if it was something to do with whatever automated process they have that imports the JSON file.

I just noticed that a Japanese translation was added from Crowdin! Thank you to whomever contributed to that effort!

I forgot to mention a while back that some nice folks over at JDRVirtuel translated the sheet in French. Thank you, I really appreciate it! (As a side note, Roll20 finally credited me as a sheet author on my profile. That took a while!)

SmashManiac said: (As a side note, Roll20 finally credited me as a sheet author on my profile. That took a while!) Seems that in the last few months or longer, the "sheet author"-tag isn't as automatic as it used to be, basically everyone got it right away, but now there seems to be a bunch of folks who don't get it( I remember seeing one or two cases before yours).