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choosing an Action off the Character Sheet from/for a token

1647650814

Edited 1647652697
Paul
Plus
Why isn't there an option to choose an action off the character sheet from a token, for that token? Why do I have to go to each token, select it, open the (often same) character sheet [using two hands/fingers], click on the action, rinse and repeat? I mean, it is literally faster rolling dice made of plastic with human hands. Ability mod + proficiency + d20. I mean, once you play some D&D you have all that memorized as a DM. 5e is E-A-S-Y that way. Why are the computers slowing us down? It's 2020 after all.
1647653293
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
That's what token actions are for. You set them up on the character sheet and all tokens that represent that character sheet will show the token actions buttons when selected.
1647654675

Edited 1647659548
Paul
Plus
Thx again, Keith. A few questions. The numbers are for sorting and do not represent hot keys, correct? Menu, character and note call some other macros or scripts of yours? Do any just show the character sheet? Statblock perhaps? "Saving throws" brings up a window to choose what type of ST? I have 6 different all purpose macros set up for that. Not sure which is easier, but 6x take up spaaaaace in the UI. And, if you dare answer, why in the name of all that is holy in computing are these not set up by default in the basic, free, whatever compendium? What you show there looks like a huge improvement over my nothing, but it sounds like I have manually enter that for each character I want to have token actions. PCs and named NPCS, sure, I can see it making sense. But shouldn't there be any easy way to set up Bugbear #5 to bash with his morningstar? Increment the names for mooks, randomize the hp, let me hit a hot key to call up the actions. I mean, nothing there is violating any IP, right? It would save HOURS. I'd pay. My time is worth it. But here I am bitching on a forum, getting help from a random, nice stranger instead of just prepping something to for my PCs to kill. Thx, again, Keith. 
1647656116

Edited 1647656136
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Lots to unpack there, because it is a big subject. Some quick answers: You can set up generic macros that reference whatever token is selected (and by extent, its character sheet). The syntax for that uses the @{selected|name of action} format. For one macro to affect any selected token (for example, an initiative macro), you can create a macro called "Initiative" and set it to be usable by all players and to display as a token actions: %{selected|initiative} Then any selected token will display the button at the top and will roll initiative for the selected token, based on the character sheet's modifiers. "Abilities" are macros that are stored on character sheets. These can also display as token action buttons. Players can create custom abilities for their characters and display them whenever their token is selected. The numbers you saw are indeed for sorting. The sheer number that you saw is because I use an API script that auto generates token actions based on the character's attacks, saves, etc. This is also a fully-matured campaign that has been tinkered with for years. The forums are filled with macros for generic one-size-fits all macros for saving throws and ability checks. Since token actions vary widely from sheet to sheet, it is currently impossible to have a system that translates any of these into token actions buttons automatically for all sheets. The script I mentioned above is written for the D&D 5th Edition by Roll20 Sheet and Pathfinder 2 by Roll20 sheet. Since I have developed the script, Roll20 has begun adopting it while producing modules. The latest modules come with pre-actioned tokens.
I appreciate the dialog here, but I find your last paragraph a bit disingenuous. You have a script that does all that, but it's also impossible at the same time? Huh?  If I want to set up a basic melee attack on a generic character, why must I set it up twice? Why isn't there just a button or toggle or something to make that action a token action? I know that is not your fault, I am just typing out loud here. Also, I have copied some of the macros in the forums here, and have found some problems. NPCs are not the same as PCs and sometimes it's ability bonus and sometimes includes proficiency and sometimes not. And it was not at all clear to me, the casual, yet trying, end user that such was the case with the macros somebody posted (and many others vouched for). Again, why can't THEY (not you or me) just build this stuff into a basic package? To hit rolls and saving throws and ability checks are not exactly rare in game. Seems to me that Roll20 is using generous people like you, Keith, to patch up their mess behind them. At least that's the way it looks from here. I see the badges by your name, and I have been in what I imagine your shoes are like in other gaming situations, wrt to money and links to the company that owns the IP. Maybe I am way off base, but that's the subtext I am reading. Look at it from where I am sitting... why in the world would I want to buy a module when the basic game is so screwed up? Why would I buy a module if I, based on experience, was worried that I could not easily add a few mooks here and there, or insert my favorite recurring NPC villain, the one that I enter all my homebrew stats for? Oh, sure, I can add them, but everything has to be done manually. Twice, and using a macro language that is, um, interesting.  Atm I am running new players through Against the Giants, the 4e Perkins version, b/c I like it better and b/c I ran one of my players through the Gygax original back in the, ahem, late 70s. And b/c they WILL read the module, but probably not know about anything but the 5e conversion in the Tales from the .... whatever book. I paid Schley for his maps even though they frustrate me b/c of the way they don't perfectly line up with the rigid grid on vtts. I did that b/c they are beautiful and functional enough, and his IP. I can even make work the change in giant size between 4e and 5e on those maps. I would like to pay somebody for a vtt that handles basic DM prep and combat chores without making me feel like I gotta go back to the days of echoing print commands to the screen.  Again, thx, Keith. I wish you the best and appreciate the help here. I am positive my frustration is not directed towards you. Those last few paragraphs were for anybody else reading along here, but I despair.  
1647663450
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
I'm not sure what to tell you. It's pretty easy to set up a token action for an attack. 1.trigger the action from the sheet 2. press up in chat to copy the code 3. put the code into a token action button. It's not automatic, no, but that is the trade off that comes with extensibility You can customize that token action to do things the sheet cannot, like run a SFX, do a query to account for non-standard mechanics, and more. It sounds like you've come to Roll20 with certain expectations or preconceptions. Thus the reality will not match those. There is considerable automation built into sheets, but expanding on that to meet your particular preferences requires user effort. Some people hate token action buttons. Some people hate chat menus.  As-is it is perfectly usable. If you want more than what Roll20 provides, it requires work. If you subscribe at the Pro level, there is quite a bit more automation you can employ. To explain my comment on the script, it's impossible for Roll20 to write something that will universally work across hundreds of custom sheets that all use different attribute names and mechanics. Sheets are custom built to match systems. The script I wrote (actually expanded from someone else's start) was painstakingly written to work with exactly two sheets, the two I mentioned. Each additional sheet would add another equal chunk of code, plus play testing and maintenance against future updates.  I appreciate your concern, but I would ask you to refrain from speculating on my motivations and compensation. The work to adapt the script to cover the Pathfinder2 was done under contract. Enough said. Now, to the good stuff. If you want something you can use with an API script, there are resources you can use. The ones you would likely find most useful are: 1) Collapsing character sheets. You can collapse any open sheet by double clicking the header. Thus you can keep all of the sheet automation handy. 2)  NPC Statblock Chat Menu for D&D 5e sheet — No API required!  Or the improved but more complex version:  Universal NPC Statblock Abilities and Spells Chat Menus for D&D 5e sheet — No API or Stylus required! 3) The Tips and Tricks  thread. This is a treasure trove of insight on how to use Roll20 in more creative ways. Most of it does not require the API.
keithcurtis said: Since token actions vary widely from sheet to sheet, it is currently impossible to have a system that translates any of these into token actions buttons automatically for all sheets. The script I mentioned above is written for the D&D 5th Edition by Roll20 Sheet and Pathfinder 2 by Roll20 sheet. Since I have developed the script, Roll20 has begun adopting it while producing modules. The latest modules come with pre-actioned tokens. Paul said: I appreciate the dialog here, but I find your last paragraph a bit disingenuous. You have a script that does all that, but it's also impossible at the same time? Huh?  The two most popular games on Roll20 (D&D 5th Edition & Pathfinder) have Character Sheet Templates that are developed and maintained by Roll20.  Other games do not have Roll20 developed and maintained Character Sheet Templates.  There are hundreds of different games, so there's no way to have them all created 'in-house'.  It's possible to create scripts that do this for specific Character Sheet Templates, but there's no way to create a 'universal' Token Action Maker script that would work for every Character Sheet Template. KeithCurtis developed a script that will automatically generate token actions for the D&D 5E and Pathfinder sheets.  The script cannot automatically parse every Character Sheet Template - it was specifically written for those two games and the character sheets they use. Now that the script is in existence, when content creators create modules for those games, they use KeithCurtis' script to generate all of token actions for the NPCs in the game, before they publish it in the marketplace.  The cool part about his script is it doesn't need to run over and over again to be used in a game - it creates Token Actions that are no longer tied to a script. The only time you would need to run it again is if the token actions for a character were changed in some way. If I want to set up a basic melee attack on a generic character, why must I set it up twice? Why isn't there just a button or toggle or something to make that action a token action? I know that is not your fault, I am just typing out loud here. It's either something that the developers have not implemented yet because it is not a high priority, or it is not possible to be done through the character sheet sheetworkers (the scripting code that is built into each sheet), or it is something that Roll20 does not want to provide for free because it is basically a perk of having access to the API (a Pro subscriber feature). Also, I have copied some of the macros in the forums here, and have found some problems. NPCs are not the same as PCs and sometimes it's ability bonus and sometimes includes proficiency and sometimes not. And it was not at all clear to me, the casual, yet trying, end user that such was the case with the macros somebody posted (and many others vouched for). Again, why can't THEY (not you or me) just build this stuff into a basic package? To hit rolls and saving throws and ability checks are not exactly rare in game. If you're playing D&D 5th edition and using the 'D&D 5E by Roll20' Character Sheet template, you might be interested in this chat menu I created a while back, that will output a list of all NPC abilities, spells, and stats. It doesn't require the API, so it's free to all users.
Yes, I appreciate the links and had already installed Keith's earlier version before seeing yours Jarren. That is exactly what I am looking for! THX! Without in any way suggesting who should get paid for what, that should be built into the base sheet. The D&D 5E by Roll20. It has got all kinds of other stuff, stuff used MUCH less often, like say halfing luck, which I know about b/c I have a halfling and his magic item "breaks" on a nat 1, which had not been showing up as often as I thought it should. Precisely b/c I assumed the sheet would not automatically handle it. So, when I realized that halfling luck was handled--and checked the various fields and talked to the player--I concluded that the sheet was pretty sophisticated. Otoh, I spent the last 2 hours looking for a guide to how to just get the basic melee weapon attack on the "front" of the sheet into the attributes. Nowhere could I find a line to cut and paste that was simply something like attack_bonus or melee_attack_bonus. I found strength_bonus, but not proficiency bonus. I doubt I ever would have thought to copy the text outta the chat box with the up arrow key.  What I am trying to say here is that I expect much less than it may appear. I am pretty confident I can take those macro scripts Keith and Jarren wrote and shared and use them. After all, it ran like a charm on the first button click. I just don't get why you had to write them in the first place. I DO have the expectation that kind of stuff would be built into the sheet. Yes, with options and toggles and all. I mean, the sheet DOES have halfling luck built in. 
1647667995
keithcurtis
Forum Champion
Marketplace Creator
API Scripter
Jarren said: If you're playing D&D 5th edition and using the 'D&D 5E by Roll20' Character Sheet template, you might be interested in this chat menu I created a while back, that will output a list of all NPC abilities, spells, and stats. It doesn't require the API, so it's free to all users. That's the second one I linked above and is a distinct improvement on mine. It's about the best you can do without the API. It's really a marvel.