For the love of all that is holy and unholy. Ctr alt delete this sheet

This is about the new 2024 Character Sheet I sent in a feedback form as well, but I need to shout this from the rooftops: this sheet is bad. Yes I know it's not done yet. But I can see where it's going, and it's bad.  1) It's gigantic. I can't even see the result of the roll i just made without minimizing out of the sheet. That's annoying as a player, flat out unusable as a DM. I'm gonna count clicks, minimize the sheet, roll damage, go to the next sheet, remember I need to consult the map so I minimize it, count, bring the sheet back up, count clicks, minimize, click for damage...No. No way. I don't lightly say this, but I won't DM with this sheet. DMs are people too.  2) Everything is hand-hold-y. Trying to add a weapon attack to my sheet is like filling out a questionnaire, complete with drop down menus and fill in the blanks. Good for a new player, I guess? It makes sure all the info is there? Well I'm not a new player, and I need functionality.  3) SWIMMING in dead space. Giant black bars on both sides that I can't shrink down. Stylized numbers, borders, lots of tabs...but seriously. Functionality. Please. I want to see my info with a minimal amount of clicks. I want to look at my list of skills without tabbing and scrolling. I want to see my list of abilities without clicking to a DIFFERENT tab, hitting a drop down menu, and then scrolling some more.  I'm not trying to be mean; the sheet looks shiny. It's pro, and I'm sure it looks great on a powerpoint. But it's also unusable. Please, just give the old sheet a spitshine and call it a day. Simplicity is key. This new sheet is the opposite of that. Glossy and complete and overengineered to death. I cannot stress this enough.    

I agree that if they went with the old version, updated for things like masteries and anything new, no one would ever complain. There is a piece of old and practical wisdom that says "better" is the enemy of "good enough", as they say in my country. This is clearly the case. Trying to do too much at once, and to be honest, they could go down this route, right after making sure that 2014 fully supports the new rules. We could wait for the new sheets, test them, give them feedback and improve it over time, but the way they went with it made most of us unhappy. And don't get me wrong - I like this new sheet and builder, but it really needs like a good half a year of improvements there.  1) For NPC sheets, I use the 2014 version. You don't need more than that.  2) Good point. I work in gamedev and this is a common problem here as well. Devs usually only get negative feedback. Since most people running games on Roll20 have some experience with the platform and D&D/TTRPGs as a whole, the only negative feedback devs got was from new players. Few praised them for the ease of use of 5e CS, so it seems that they forgot how functional it was and how important it was to most of us. The one thing that really sets Roll20 apart is how simple and easy most character sheets are here. You just enter a value in the right column and it adds up like a spreadsheet and then you just click the button and you get the result. This is unlike Foundry, where character sheets often fight you if you try to change something without following the strict rules they were built around. 

Is it even possible to use the old sheets and the new sheets side by side? I thought the new sheet was a game setting: set the table to "2024 Sheet" and all the character sheets generated will be the new one. I would struggle through using the new sheet if it was ONLY when I was PC'ing. I wouldn't like it, but it would be manageable. Most of my concern is DMing.  

Hi Zack S.,  Copy your game and checkmark Jumpgate. Make sure your character sheet is set to D&D 5e 2014.  Next, go into the copy and go to the My Settings tab. Go down to the character sheet control and enable the D&D 5e 2024 character sheet.  The game will have both 2014 and 2024 character sheets. 

Gauss said: Hi Zack S.,  Copy your game and checkmark Jumpgate. Make sure your character sheet is set to D&D 5e 2014.  Next, go into the copy and go to the My Settings tab. Go down to the character sheet control and enable the D&D 5e 2024 character sheet.  The game will have both 2014 and 2024 character sheets.  The bug i am encountering with that is that players aren't able to import sheets that way. The creator of the game can import without problem from the character vault but players can't. 

Hi Echo! Do you mean that players can't add a character to the game from the character vault, or from Roll20Characters? Does the new game have Vault Access turned on in the settings?

keithcurtis said: Hi Echo! Do you mean that players can't add a character to the game from the character vault, or from Roll20Characters? Does the new game have Vault Access turned on in the settings? I tried this with some fellow Dungeonmasters. If you create a game with the 2024 sheets (and allow 2014 sheets) players can't import characters from the character vault into the game when using the 2014 sheets. On the other hand if you create a game with the 2014 sheets and allow 2024 sheets too the players can't import 2024 sheets. If you try it the vault gives you a error message.  Weirdly enough the creator of the game can import both 2024 and 2014 sheets from the character vault just fine. Just players can't. We tried if giving players DM rights would fix it but it sadly doesn't. And it seem every DM in our community can reproduce the problem so it seems not to be a unique problem. 

My games with both 2024 and 2014 sheets enabled have corrupted. I have to recreate all the sheets by hand on the 2014 sheet, and abandon the 2024 ruleset entirely. I'm thrilled.

You should really be more specific. I am guessing this is about the D&D 2024 sheet, but I'm guessing that from context clues in other people's posts .

keithcurtis said: Hi Echo! Do you mean that players can't add a character to the game from the character vault, or from Roll20Characters? Does the new game have Vault Access turned on in the settings? Just noticed, yeah it's from Roll20 Characters. Old habits die hard i guess i am still calling it the vault, hehe. So yeah i meant the newest tool for importing and exporting characters. Sorry for the confusion! 

Why on earth would you release something to everyone when it isn't even complete and tested? As soon as the update for the new sheets hit I started having problems with all the sheets and it seems so is everyone else. It is not mods as I don't have any. It is not the disaster of never ending problems with jumpgate as I don't use that either. The new sheet update is causing an exponential cascade of memory leaks and failures across the entirety of roll20. You need to revert back ASAP, as the problem has tripled since the update and I expect in a week it will 50X to 100X that. Someone screwed the pooch, or someone introduced a virus that is eating away at roll20, and you better pray it is the former over the latter.

Parker K. said: Why on earth would you release something to everyone when it isn't even complete and tested? Insert "you must be new here" meme.