M&M 3e character sheet update kinda ruining everything

The new update has really disruptive two M&M campaigns I'm in, not sure how we're going to continue the games if they don't let us use the older sheets. Resistance is a dropdown menu with restrictive options so Alternate Resistance is not usable now like it was before where you could write in the real resistance to the power. AOEs are just gone, completely gone for some reason. One of my players had her powers and equipment just completely disappear upon "upgrading", so that's just broken now. Other player sheets I've seen have been reorganized into an utter mess, which could take hours to sort through if it's an especially big and complicated sheet only for the new layout to be more limiting in pretty major ways. Attacks when rolled display their name as the power they're under instead now which is annoying for when you have multiple attacks under the same array or category but are meant to be different. There's probably more but that's just what my groups have found so far. This new update really just sucks so far with the character conversions being either a mess or deleting your things. I hope they roll it back or let us use the sheets from before this broken update. 

Hi Priscilla,  Which M&M 3e sheet are you referencing? Could you supply the full name or a screenshot?

Hi Gauss, we've been using the Mutants and Masterminds 3e Official by Richard Tran and Scot Casey. Here's some screenshots of player sheet powers becoming broken. I don't have screenshots of before the update I don't think. It should be noted that for the character sheet that had the powers and equipment completely deleted, those things are still accessible when turning the sheet into an NPC sheet so the data is still there but it's just no longer being displayed or able to editted. Most of the players of the groups I'm in are now not opening their sheets if they haven't yet in case it breaks theirs too.

Hi Priscilla, I'm sorry the upgrade did not go well for you and your play group. The good news is that the original data is still there and preserved so it can be recovered with a new update. So that I can track down what went wrong, could you use the character vault to transfer your character into my conversion test game ? I will then port it over to my development game so I can figure out what happened and hopefully get this fixed shortly. As for the resistance entry, I'll take that feedback under advisement and look into an alternate way to handle the resistance entry.

Hi Scott, Sure thing!!! I sent over the Corona sheet since it belonged to a player in one of my groups. The other character with the messy layout I'll need to send later since that game is run by my bf but I'll see if we can send that one too if you'd like for the layout stuff, the sheet had a lot of things on it due to complexity from that player doing a plant themed Ben 10 like character. That same campaign has been running for way longer and my own character with a really old sheet got messed up too similarly though not as badly as the others (mainly just the issue of rolled attacks displaying the power they are under), would that also be a good one to share over? Also thank you for responding, it did cheer me up that you listened to the criticism. Sorry if it was a bit strongly worded ^^

The lack of the AOE checkbox is also a big issue. Unless I missed some way to have damage AOEs, I couldn't find the option to make damage AOEs and one of the sheets I tried to convert that had a damage based AOE calculated the damage DC as though it was a standard attack after the conversion.

Thanks Priscilla! I'll be digging into these tomorrow to figure out what went wrong with the upgrade. And I'll get the missing features added as well.

Scott C. said: Thanks Priscilla! I'll be digging into these tomorrow to figure out what went wrong with the upgrade. And I'll get the missing features added as well. There also needs to be ways to roll the effect ranks on a power directly (for thing like Deflect and Nullify); a way to display the text of a power would also be good. Damage powers need a way to specify that they're strength-based (some of the effect ranks come from the strength modifier and thus should be discounted from the cost of the power, while still counting for extra/flaw modifications). The ability to specify partial ranks of per rank extras and flaws would also be good. Since headers are now used to represent single powers, an additional option to just have section headers would also be appreciated, I tend to make logical groupings of my powers (which are not intended to count as a single power, just be an organization tool) which can have arrays or actual linked powers under them. The previous sheet had a way to specify which of an array's options was the currently selected one, that would be a useful function to preserve. I like the ability to specify extras an flaws separately now, though would appreciate a way to hide them to avoid clutter.

Awesome! I imported the other two sheets that had their layout stuff reorganized weirdly just now too. The player for Stellar Bloom used Variable to have multiple different forms and categorizied by their powers by each form so everything getting swapped around weirdly messed up that organization. Hopefully they'll be helpful ^w^

When I discovered the sheet got updated, I decided to jot everything down into a text document so I could remove everything and fill everything out from scratch. Not only can I not recreate my new powers no matter what drop-down option I select and how many times I click on the pencil icon (images below), but my power points still say I have 76 points toward powers that no longer exist. I thought deleting the legacy archive would resolve the issue and it hasn't. Scott, I don't know who you are, but I know you mean well. And I'm glad you're getting to the bottom of things. However, I'm starting to wonder if this is the result of mistake a human would make. EDIT: I tried doing the same thing with a brand new character sheet. Same issue.

Hi ProjectSaleos, The screenshots you provided are strange. The buttons in the editor are placed no where near where they should be placed. Can you tell me what browser you are using (in case that is part of this issue)? For reference, this is what the editor looks like for me when using the live sheet:

Interesting. To answer your question I'm using Floorp, which is a variant of Firefox. EDIT: Out of curiosity, I booted up my game in Roll20 using normal Firefox and the buttons in your screenshot are where they're supposed to. Maybe I have an extension that's messing with how the page is loaded, or there's a setting in the browser itself, but at least now I know this might be something on my end. Or something to do with Floorp Browser itself. EDIT 2: I opened a private window for the M&M game with all extensions turned off. The bug is still there, so it might be something wrong with Floorp itself. Scott C. said: Hi ProjectSaleos, The screenshots you provided are strange. The buttons in the editor are placed no where near where they should be placed. Can you tell me what browser you are using (in case that is part of this issue)?

Gotcha, unfortunately since R20 only officially supports Firefox/Chrome, I can really only guarantee functionality in Firefox/Chrome. Most  forks of those should work fine, but you never know what that fork might have changed that might not play well with R20/character sheets. Also, to be clear, the browser is almost certainly only responsible for the display issue. The upgrade error is a real issue that I'm looking into figuring out.

Scott C. said: Also, to be clear, the browser is almost certainly only responsible for the display issue. You would be correct. This turned out to be a bug that I just had to restart my browser to fix. Sorry for wasting your time.

Another issue I've run into, setting an Expertise to anything other than intellect causes the selected option to change to strength (and it also doesn't even factor your strength in when that happens).

I've got a fix ready for the conversion hiding all powers. If folks that are affected by it could port their characters into the test game (note different from the game linked above) and let me know how the conversion runs there, I'd appreciate it. EDIT: I should note that this will only affect characters that did not update at all (e.g. Corona). Still working on the ones that updated but had issues.

I've just submitted an update to fix the issues with the migration getting stuck; release pending Roll20 acceptance. The issues with the missing attributes (AOE DC etc) will be coming shortly, but I wanted to get the fix for the biggest issue released as quickly as possible.

and, Priscilla, can you elaborate on the reorganization issue (I think with Stellar Bloom?)

Scott C. said: I've just submitted an update to fix the issues with the migration getting stuck; release pending Roll20 acceptance. The issues with the missing attributes (AOE DC etc) will be coming shortly, but I wanted to get the fix for the biggest issue released as quickly as possible. I'm still not sure if this is a bug from before or after the sheet update, but the power points assigned to equipment and powers aren't updating. I'm having to manually type in the attributes for power points spent on powers. But the one for equipment is missing, so I have to mark it down as miscellaneous power points spent.

ProjectSALEOS said: Scott C. said: I've just submitted an update to fix the issues with the migration getting stuck; release pending Roll20 acceptance. The issues with the missing attributes (AOE DC etc) will be coming shortly, but I wanted to get the fix for the biggest issue released as quickly as possible. I'm still not sure if this is a bug from before or after the sheet update, but the power points assigned to equipment and powers aren't updating. I'm having to manually type in the attributes for power points spent on powers. But the one for equipment is missing, so I have to mark it down as miscellaneous power points spent. The actual input for it is missing in the editor?

Scott C. said: and, Priscilla, can you elaborate on the reorganization issue (I think with Stellar Bloom?) Yea, relaying what I can from what Stellar Bloom's player said; Not only did a lot of the things on her sheet get moved in seemingly random ways like several transformations being moved to Utility and the only attack left in "Attacks" is suit armor as some examples. She used headers to organize her sheet into things like attacks, utilities, and the transformation passives themselves. Since now each category is for each individual power, it'll make it a lot harder for her to organize her powers. Her powerset is dependment on Varieable by using it for different kinds of forms with abilities tied to them. It seems the main issue here other than organization getting messed up is that we need the attacks to show the name of the attack itself when in an array so she can have her attacks organized into that spot. There's other character sheets I know such as a character with gadgets that belong in an array that are impacted by the weird decision to have every attack in an array have the name of the array itself. She wanted to give the suggestion to add headers back to help with organizing complex arrays. I think it would also be good for characters with lots or all of their powers tied to a removeable modifier, multiple powers that are affected by removeable together because they are all granted by a device while being multiple distinct powers within the category.

Scott C. said: The actual input for it is missing in the editor? Yeah. It'd be something like powerpoints_equipment, right? Also, to make sure I didn't accidentally delete anything in the sheet's attributes section, I used a fresh sheet and added in an entry for equipment and powers. Still the same result. Here are the stats with the powers menu open. And the exact same stats with the Equipment tab open.

There are so many things that went wrong the moment this update went live on our end. Some of these are good solves but I can't try half of these because my sheet hardly responds. It's drastically performing worse than it did before the update, and I had so many things on my sheet that the only way to fix it now would be to make multiple other sheets. I'm using a character with variable power by the way, hence why I had so much on it. 

Just submitted a fix for a several more of these bugs. Rules Corrections (M&M 3E RAW) Attack DC math and the damage / affliction save-degree ladders have been overhauled to match the published rules. Existing sheets automatically recompute every attack row on the next open, and a one-time Attack Rules Update notice explains what changed. Save DC base. Damage attacks use DC 15 + rank vs. Toughness; Affliction attacks use DC 10 + rank vs. the chosen resistance. The Area of Effect (AOE) toggle no longer changes the save DC. AOE resolution. AOE attacks no longer make an attack roll. Targets in the area get a Dodge resistance check at DC 10 + rank, shown as a separate "AOE Dodge" line in the chat output. A successful Dodge halves the effective rank against that target per the rules. Damage failure degrees. 1st degree = -1 circumstance penalty to further Damage saves (DC-1); 2nd degree = Dazed (DC-6); 3rd degree = Staggered (DC-11); 4th degree = Incapacitated (DC-16). The previous "Hit" baseline tier is no longer shown as a separate row since the DC is already displayed. Affliction failure degrees. 1st degree at DC-1, 2nd degree at DC-6, 3rd degree at DC-11. Features You can now roll an effect's rank directly from the power card by clicking its "Rank N" pill. Roll output is 1d20 + rank using the standard chat template, surfaced alongside the existing attack roll for attack-type effects. Useful for opposed checks (Mind Reading vs Will, Concealment vs Perception, etc.) where you need the effect's raw rank without invoking its full attack flow. Damage and Affliction effects gained a Linked Ability dropdown that lets you tie the effect to a character ability (Strength, Stamina, any of the eight). When linked, the effect's damage rank includes the ability's rank, and the power's cost picks up the linked ability's contribution for any Extras or Flaws applied to it. The effect itself costs 1 PP per rank (instead of 2) when linked, since you've already paid for the linked ability in the Abilities section. Resistance dropdown on power effects now includes Parry and is ordered to match the Defenses section (Dodge, Parry, Fortitude, Toughness, Will). Bug Fixes Newly added Close Combat and Ranged Combat skill rows now show the correct attribute number (Fighting / Dexterity) immediately, instead of staying blank until you edit the row. Picking an attribute for an Expertise skill (Strength, Stamina, etc.) now sticks; the dropdown no longer silently reverts to Intellect after you choose another option. Power Builder effects can now be marked as Area of Effect (AOE). Toggling AOE in the editor updates the chat output live. Legacy power conversion now preserves the Area-of-Effect flag on damage attacks so converted characters render the AOE Dodge line correctly in chat. Ability and defense totals (Strength, Dodge, Parry, Fortitude, etc.) now refresh live when you edit rank, modifier, or misc fields — no longer requires closing and reopening the sheet for the displayed total to catch up. Per-row movement speed (per hour and per round) now updates correctly when you change speed type or rank on a movement row. In array powers with multiple distinct attack effects, each sub-attack's chat roll now shows its own effect name (e.g. "Blast", "Burn") instead of every roll showing the array's parent name. Power, Equipment, Vehicle, and Headquarters costs now roll up to the matching Power Points total live as you edit each card. The nameplate total no longer stays stale until something else triggers a refresh. One-time migration notices (Power Cost Recalc, Attack Rules Update) no longer reappear on every sheet open. The version-stamp the sheet used to decide "already migrated" wasn't persisting, so the gate kept firing and the notice kept showing. Multiple sheet-update notices that previously popped up stacked on top of each other (e.g. Power Cost Recalc + Attack Rules Update both showing at once after a 3.1 → 3.2 upgrade) now appear together inside a single combined "Sheet Update Notice" modal. One Dismiss button acknowledges everything at once. Resistance field on power effects accepts freeform entries again. Pick Custom from the dropdown to type any resistance name (e.g. "Insight", "Willpower", or a homebrew defense), and that text is used everywhere the resistance is referenced. Existing characters with custom resistances from the older sheet are migrated automatically the next time you open the sheet. Power point cost column on power cards no longer clips 2- and 3-digit costs. The column now reserves enough width to display the full value. Known Issues The hero lab importer is currently having issues. I'm working on tracking down the problem.

Awesome!! Thank you for working on these issues. Some sheets seem to still have the array name thingy but it fixes itself once you retype the name of any power within the array so it fixes it. Only issue I see left is just optimization cause currently the sheets take ages to load and save changes. But the campaigns I'm in are prolly going to go out of temporally hold slowly and we'll probably able to play again once the sheets are optimized enough to not take minutes to load sections of big sheets

Ok so found new issues. Now that AoEs are added, everything is rolled as an AoE regardless of whether it's ticked as one or made as an attack in the attack section. And Damage AOEs don't even factor in the damage DC changes to AoEs when rolled. Also, we fixed it by slowly deleting each one while the sheets were being reaaallly slow and laggy but this happened in Stellar Bloom's sheet. EDIT: Rolling attacks and it rolling the attack check works if you roll from the power section but not if you roll from the attack section. <a href="https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1071171525669036124/1504155112254472354/image.png" rel="nofollow">https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1071171525669036124/1504155112254472354/image.png</a> ?

Hey Scott, would it be possible to use the older sheets before the update? If there is a way then it would help campaigns I'm in not be suddenly halted by the unusable sheets but I'm unaware of any way to use previous sheet versions.