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Improve How Votes are Handled in the Suggestions Forum

Recent updates to the suggestion forum, better search and multiple sort options in particular, have drastically improved it's useability. However, the way votes themselves are handled is still extremely problematic. The extremely limited number of votes users get, combined with the way votes can sit in a suggestions for months even after it's hit the first page, stifles the ability of users to share their ideas or support new ideas. I think there are several ways to remedy this that can be used either in conjunction with each other or on their own. Establish a protocol for clearing suggestions. Right now, one of the biggest problems is that suggestions can sit on the front page for months with no response. Users are left wondering if the devs have seen it, are considering it, or if it's already been dismissed and they should move on. All the while, it continues to lock up their vote. If a protocol for evaluating suggestions that reach a certain page or vote threshold, with fixed timelines, were implemented, it would allow users to more accurately gauge what's going on and get their votes back. I would further suggest that this could work in stages (possibly: seen, under consideration, in-progress/queued/rejected). Once a suggestion hits a certain threshold someone will give it a cursory overview and either reject it or mark it as seen. Then after it has been seen for a certain period it'll either be rejected or moved to under-consideration. From there, there could be either a predetermined period or a posted, per suggestion, period after which it moves to either queued/in-progress or rejected. When a suggestion is marked as seen or consideration, votes would be returned, but the tally would remain the same. This would allow users to either move onto new suggestion, without revoking their support, or recommit their vote to ideas that are more important to them. When an idea is moved the last stage (queued/in-progress/rejected) votes are returned and voting is locked, since further votes won't effect anything and there won't be any further opportunities to refund them. Pros Gives users more feedback about what the devs are thinking. Creates a clear and open process and timeline for dealing with suggestions. Lets users get back their votes. Cons Requires active effort on the part of Roll20's staff. Doesn't help people with less popular or buried ideas. Regenerate votes after a period of time. This suggestion is relatively simple. Automatically give people their votes back (without decreasing the tally on a suggestion) after a few months have passed. Pros Prevents votes from being locked up for exessively long periods. Helps everyone equally. Cons Does not provide any feedback. Drastically increase allotted votes and allow users to commit multiple votes to a single suggestion. This one is also pretty simple. Increasing the number of votes increases peoples ability to support or suggest ideas. The second part allows users to show different levels of support, but also helps to balance an increased number of votes against how many suggestions are made. Pros The first part is the simplest suggestion to implement. The second part gives users a better ability to express how much they support any given idea. Cons Without some way to get votes back, simply adding more votes does not fix the problem. It merely delays it. Potential to inflate vote counts and number of suggestions. Personally, I'd recommend implementing all three (of course I would), but the first one is the most important, with some version of the second being a nice addition.
Lots of interesting ideas here. We do try and put some "in progress" stuff on elements (there was admittedly more of that last update), but it wouldn't be a bad idea to do more. And refunds happen on things once they've been implemented... but folks are welcome to shift their allegiances. I do think we'll see some changes to the system down the line (folks might upvote this / make their own suggestions in other threads). I want to say, though, that I'm slightly surprised that there hasn't been more clear organization from users here! We've seen community collaboration efforts on character sheets and API, but both the wiki and Suggestion systems are things that I hope see some more clever use by folks in the future.
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More clever use? - I'm sorry I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting. The ability to sort by date is new. That wasn't there last time I checked. The user has little influence over how the forum works, if I understand correctly. There also wasn't page numbers so you couldn't easily go back and read all the ideas posted. There was no way to merge ideas that were basically of the same type. This particular forum is a great idea and has actually contributed to some changes, I'm assuming. However, last I was here it was pure chaos. Just checked, most seems the same: still no page numbers. No sub forums for categories of ideas... What exactly do you mean by clever use of the forum? Edit: you might mean this: <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/2007/creating-ef" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/2007/creating-ef</a>... - but still it would be a lot easier if the forum was working better on a technical level... -- The idea "not to split" the ideas doesn't work if you can't really find other similar ideas in the first place, so you end up making a new one anyhow.
Nolan T. J. said: Lots of interesting ideas here. We do try and put some "in progress" stuff on elements (there was admittedly more of that last update), but it wouldn't be a bad idea to do more. And refunds happen on things once they've been implemented... but folks are welcome to shift their allegiances. It's good to know that votes do get refunded when things are implemented, but that can take a while and users don't actually know what's happening during that period to know if they should "shift their allegiance". Broadly speaking, a suggestion could fall under 5 categories: Rejected (you should absolutely shift your vote), accepted but not yet being worked on (you can probably shift your vote), under consideration (you probably shouldn't shift your vote), and not yet seen (it depends on if you think there's a chance that it will be seen). Some suggestions can spend a lot of time in limbo where, if you like the idea, you should keep your vote in it but it could have already been accepted or rejected and you'd be wasting your vote.
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What is worse is I can not even make suggestions if I do not have at least 1 vote? I think&nbsp;making a suggestion should not be seen as a vote, anyone should be able to make suggestions!&nbsp; I would love to see not only up votes, but also down votes. This way the community can show it they not only support an idea but are dead set against it. &nbsp; I would prefer to have a certain number of votes per day. &nbsp;And number of votes should be determined by how&nbsp;active members are in the community and how much they contribute to the community (Similar to Stack Exchange)&nbsp; Example: Basic Member can give max one up or down vote per item.&nbsp; Plus member can give max five up or down votes per item. Pro member can give max ten up or down votes per item. Your number of votes per day (use it or loose it) can be calculated based on various things: 1 per year on site 1 per achievement unlocked 1 per item contributed to the community (character sheet, api scripts, etc) 1 for basic member, 3 for Plus member, 5 for pro member
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I can understand why they want to make suggesting something cost a vote. It keeps people from spamming suggestions. The bigger issue is that there's no easy way to see all of the suggestions you've voted on so you can reclaim your votes if they've fallen off the map. Also, votes don't seem to be returned for on Dev, in Dev or long-term tags.
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Gold
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Votes are returned and the total number of votes is saved, Epsilon, when a Suggestion is marked as Complete . The Suggestions that you vote on yourself are marked with a pink triangle in the forum index. Wiki Help Docs, <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Forum_Voting" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Forum_Voting</a>
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Gold said: Votes are returned and the total number of votes is saved, Epsilon, when a Suggestion is marked as Complete . Yup. I'm aware of that. I'm suggesting that this behavior should be changed to include on-dev, in dev, and long term, since the votes have accomplished their purpose by that point (that is, the devs have started to consider the idea and either started development or queued it for development at a later point). The Suggestions that you vote on yourself are marked with a pink triangle in the forum index. The problem with that is, if the suggestion you voted on has fallen off all of the front pages, and you don't remember it's name, it can be really hard to find it again. The ping triangles only help if you can already see the suggestion.
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It might lead to spam, but if people spam and they get down voted and you can penalize them by removing some of their votes. So this way spammers will be removed from posting in forums in any case. Or you can say when the up votes - down votes are below -3 then post gets clsoed and moved to archive. :) StackExchange and its children sites have been doing this very successfully for years.
I just wish I had a spare vote to upvote this. &gt;_&gt; I'm for all of these ideas in a big way, and while I can appreciate certain limitations, and how much effort it would take to implement some of the ideas presented here, they're all very good and useful. As far as efficiency of the forums, I searched for the better part of an hour, scrolling through pages, using multiple search terms, and it was only at the very end of it that I found the post I was hoping was there so I could upvote it rather than creating my own post. That was less than 6 months ago. While I appreciate that users should make some effort too, not everyone has the patience and time I have to comb this forum for what they're looking for. So, while I don't have the points necessary to do so, because I'm supporting a few ideas I believe in right now and don't want to have to search them out again, this is me upvoting this idea. More info, more votes, merging ideas. To quote Queen: I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now. Sorry if that sounded entitled &gt;_&gt; I just like to end posts on pop culture references and jokes. You know, liven things up a bit.
I'm fine with the voting system as-is, though it would be nice to be able to quickly get a list of topics that I've voted for, so I could easily evaluate whether I'm still interested in supporting them. I only have a few votes and I can lose track when sifting through the pages of 4-1 vote suggestions, I imagine it's tougher for the Mentors.
I'd vote for this if it also included the ability for me to throw all my votes at one project. There's high value projects that though may be at the top of the list, I think would have even more if users could dump all their votes into it.
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nice one Jeremy
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KingMarth said: I'm fine with the voting system as-is, though it would be nice to be able to quickly get a list of topics that I've voted for, so I could easily evaluate whether I'm still interested in supporting them. I only have a few votes and I can lose track when sifting through the pages of 4-1 vote suggestions, I imagine it's tougher for the Mentors. I could not agree more
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And we also need to look at how items are sorted as there are lots and lots and lots of duplicates, because it is so hard to always find the topic you want to discuss, Some pre-defined tags that you can add to your posts and suggestions so it is easier to search for something with 1 or more tags you are looking at
I see no reason for this portion of the forum to exist. You never touched any of the other 2+ year suggestions so what makes us think you &nbsp;will touch these ones?
while older i did have a newer suggestion this one says it better
Thanks for the suggestion! After 30 days, Suggestions and Ideas with fewer than 10 votes are closed and the votes are refunded to promote freshness. Your suggestion didn't build the right momentum this time, but feel free to submit it again! We find that the best suggestions describe the problem you are having, and the solution you want. You can learn more about the process of making suggestions on the Roll20 Wiki! More details can be found here .