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Character Advice, Please?

As the saying goes, "There's no shame in my game."  When I need help I know it, and I'll ask for it! I find that my immersion into 3.5/Pathfinder for work reasons has made it hard for me to think in 2e style.  Between a few too many dozen crises, and the heat here in Oklahoma slowing everything down, I've had trouble getting properly into the 2e headspace. So I'm opening this thread as a "help please" one.  What should I work on more to be an effective 2e priest?  Are there specific magic/holy items I should always have, or, ones I should trade or quest for? Right now I am the guy who might keep the party from bleeding out and might talk their way out of trouble.  I can't afford to BUY your way out of trouble though. <laugh> Anyway I find myself thinking "this" or "that" would be cool and then I realize I'm coming up with 3.5/PFRPG stuff, not Gold's Game stuff.  It's screwin' me up!  So your advice is much needed!  Thanks!  :)
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I think with Horukh's physical stats being so poor... but his wisdom & intelligence high... I feel like you should focus him towards buffing and casting. High level priests / clerics can lay down some serious divine spell power; with the right spell combos.
Horukh has terrible combat stats, so his effectiveness in combat will only be with area effects, touch- or touch-at-distance-on-allies abilities (like bless ), or imprecise things like grenades.  Trying to actually hit anything (like using a melee weapon or bow) would just be round upon round of disappointment I fear.  Unless something REALLY changes, like he gets gauntlets of ogre strength or the like.  (Pacific Rim: Rocket Elbow! SMASH) Just getting in close enough for a touch spell delivery is risky, and besides, even if he found a +2 mace it'd be too heavy for him to carry *laugh* .  If this was a Monty Python bit, he'd be the one who hired the swallows to carry the coconuts because he couldn't. :) But I do need to think in terms of crunch.  How can he get news spells, which ones would be good?  What if he found a clerical magic item that used charges, how could he recharge the item?  I saw some that said "can be recharged by a 12th level cleric" and I thought, "where the heck are THOSE going to be on this planet?!"
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Gold
Forum Champion
I think you're doing well so far. Horukh is about as well-established as any PC so far. I'd say continue the recent trend of using the Priest spells from your spheres, with cool descriptions and clerical narratives tacked on. You can hit some weaker creatures (like goblins) with your staff, and I believe you still have Turn Undead ability to try later. There should be more spells to try too, as well as repeating the familiar Cure Light Wounds, Bless, Faerie Fire, and Protection From Evil. All proved useful so far, aiding the party. Good advice from Torvald on leaning towards casting and often buffs (protections, enhancements to yourself and party members). We could work on some of your Henchmen and Hirelings . Perhaps you want to take an Escort or a Bodyguard along, Scribe, Porter, Navigator, Guide, Sage, someone else? This would be an under-PC, an NPC-Henchman of yours, not a full PC in stats, XP, or story.  We would start with determining their species, class and occupation in your employ.  Let's check your AC . I remembered that Kenku have a Natural AC of 15, due to Feathers, so I want to make sure that's listed on your sheet. Profile-wise, Horukh is the Lowest Strength in the party, and also the lowest Con in the party. Guess what? Horukh is also THE WISEST in the party, the most gracious and Charismatic in the party (one of the few 18's), and the #1 most Perceptive member of the party. That's a lot of distinctions! Fancy Bird bears some kind of outstanding award among the party on 5 out of 7 ability scores. Horukh The Weak, The Sickly, The Wise, The Gracious, The Perceptive.  Therefore the stats say, focus on the Personality traits. Int + Wis + Cha + Perception, your total personality power is mechanically greater than most, and should be brought to bear in-game.  Note that Int, Wis, and even Perception can be used for deducing things (like political plots, alignments, secrets, likely hiding places, puzzle solutions, and so on). What should I work on more to be an effective 2e priest? Cast all of your spells per-day, as a matter of policy, cast them up by the end of the day.  Meter your spells out so that they try to last the whole "day" until you can sleep, but don't hold back much. Let loose with all your spells. Watch your party mates' health-bars and use healing spells wisely when needed. At the end of each day, any unused spell slots can be offered for bolstering healing, or night-watch protections. Turn the Undead when you meet any corrupted and evil ones. Vanquish them. You're the best in the party at expunging the undead, although you haven't met any in Horukh's adventures as of yet. Watch out for all manner of Skeletons Zombies Wights Wraiths Ghosts Vampires Mummies Lich etc. The Spirit World contains good and neutral ghosts as well. Most of the undead are typically evil abominations. However note the difference of the Spirit World which may reveal the appearance of ghosts who are non-evil bearing messages. Talk/explore and fear the spirit world! Are there specific magic/holy items I should always have, or, ones I should trade or quest for? Always have or get: Keoghtom's Ointment Holy Water Potions Of Healing Trade or find: Ring of Protection Scrolls of Protection (From Fire, From Acid, From Cold, From Poison, From Undead, and so on) Quest or find-discover: Mithril (ultra light metal mined by dwarves, crafted by elves, good for featherweight armor) Elven Chain or other ultralight armor Ion Stones (aka Ioun Stones) Figurine of Wondrous Power Ring Of Spell Storing Ring of Regeneration Rod of Security Staff of Curing Rod of Resurrection Plus anything to help you with flying & get your fellow party members able to join you in the skies for flying purposes that may arise. There seems to be a lot happening in the sky, that may be of interest later. Trying to actually hit anything (like using a melee weapon or bow) would just be round upon round of disappointment I fear. I would encourage you to try repeated melee against mooks (lower level opponents) when your HP is at Max, if a spell is not needed in the situation. You can hit some things with your staff in melee, but it is a risk. Your Strength is bad, and that's a negative. However the Cleric is 2nd-best after Fighter, in your Attack Bonus according to your class, so it's not terrible.  Against higher-powered monsters, you're right, you are not able to hit them much.  But against more gang-like smaller monsters, you would hit a fair amount if you swing repeatedly. Yes there would be some misses, but the law of averages will bring you Hits after a few rounds. If the situation does not require a spell, then swinging repeatedly may be your best bet against lower-armored enemies especially.  Sometimes you just roll a fast swing, and miss and we move on quickly to the next person (this can be good), but if you get lucky and roll 20 (5% of the time) then you get a narrative and a longer turn to talk. If you get a Hit, maybe it's 10% of the time, maybe 20%, 30%, it comes around if you keep trying.  If you don't swing you never get a hit!  If you roll 20 you ALWAYS HIT, so it's never a lost-cause even at 6 STR. How can he get news spells, which ones would be good? Let's have a party-conference-look at your total spell list and pick out some good ones to bring up. Since it's a 'high magic campaign', I've granted the Cleric free casting of your Level 1-2-3 spells, which should be a boon to the PC, adds flexibility and flavor.  So you have ALL the spells that you could want, with the exception of spheres you don't access because of your personality-pantheon.  You should have a large selection of spells that will only get more powerful when you level up a bit more. Have we got a full list of your spells Level 1-2-3? Let's Write down ALL the spells from all your spheres, sorted by Level. We will Make a list of all the 1st level spells you can cast, all the 2nd level spells you can cast, all 3rd level spells. We should have a substantial list to review then, and I'll help you (along with the other Players) to recognize any spells that you aren't sure how to use them. If you don't have such a list prepared, comprehensive-organized in writing, we can work on it together in the game or before the game. no problem. This is the key to your access to a large number of spells. Let's get your spell list in clean-text list so Torvald and the others can look-on in the thread. Estimated 30+ spells. What if he found a clerical magic item that used charges, how could he recharge the item? Items with charges should usually just be used as soon as you find opportunities. You can't recharge them yourself until higher levels but you can buy recharging services, or obtain some graces of the Gods if you perform fitting actions. A few certain items should be reserved for necessary applications (Cure Disease, Neutralize Poison, Slay Mummy, etc).  Most items with charges should be used liberally in-the-game action. This DM does not like to see awarded items hoarded away or, worse, forgotten, or worst of all: not written down on your sheet and then completely forgotten POOF.  All items placed/awarded in-game treasures means that I thought it would be fun and interesting to see it used, or possibly it's a clue that you would need such an item for upcoming scenarios, so use your magic items whenever you see a place that it can be applied. This also fits with the 'high magic' theme. I saw some that said "can be recharged by a 12th level cleric" and I thought, "where the heck are THOSE going to be on this planet?!" There are a few around, 9th level, 12th level, up to perhaps 20th level or so. There are divine and diabolical powers at play beyond 20th, too. It is a full-scale Earth size homebrew world. The continental area from Alta to Portlandio is only the size of a couple provinces of Canada.  Other parts of the homebrew world have established civilizations. There are high level shamans, clerics, temples, monks, diviners, all sorts. Within Portlandio some of the higher level clerics in the immediate vicinity, at the moment, are priests at the Greek Temple, others at the Temple Of the Phoenix, and the Temple of Chauntea, possibly other places too.  Other cultures like the Lizardmen and Bullywugs of the marsh lands have their shaman and priests too.
^^^ What Gold said!
^ I am not super familiar with priest spells however I sent a spreadsheet of the 2e priest spells over skype. It allows you to sort them by sphere, level, etc.. and should be of some use *I use a similar one for wizard spells.* If you were not able to DL it from skype just let me know and I can send it over again.
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Gold
Forum Champion
Chris , Nice, that resource sounds useful for this. Larry --- can you post Horukh's list of SPHERES here? Let's pay-off some of the Computer Masters to hack the spreadsheet. Either Chris , Jennifer , Hans , or myself, will help with this.   Sort by the Spheres Horukh has & then by Level.  Delete / Hide the spells of the spheres he doesn't have.  Temporarily hide the remaining spells of Level 3-4-5-6-7. Copy-paste the list of all the 1st level spells he should have, here. Copy-paste the list of all the 2nd level spells he should have, here. Copy-paste the list of all the 3rd level spells he should have when he gets 3rd level spell access, here. For fun & for future planning, copy-paste the 4th-7th level spells here.
That sounds like good solid insight and advice! I am laying out a new novel right now and it's kind of intense---think of it like setting up a game, as the DM, that has to satisfy a million people who paid money to be at the table (and for some added pressure, it's about fan favorite characters, and is the third book of a series)---so my attention's split up between that, & the home & vehicle repairs that have me hemorrhaging money and strength. So I ask that you be patient with me in when I can get this information to you!  I am not even sure how many or which Spheres that Horukh should have, I just took a guess.  We were trying to put together a playable character quick! What I have in my offline notes is: Thought (Major: Monks) Emotion Read (1st) Thought Capture (1st) Idea (2nd) Mind Read (2nd) Emotion Control (3rd) Memory Read (3rd) Telepathy (3rd) Genius (4th) Mental Domination (4th) Modify Memory (4th) Rapport (4th) Solipsism (4th) Thought Broadcast (4th) Impregnable Mind (5th) Memory Wrack (5th) Mindshatter (5th) Thoughtwave (5th) Disbelief (6th) Group Mind (6th) Impervious Sanctity of Mind (7th) Mind Tracker (7th) Healing (Major: clerics, crusaders, druids; Minor: monks, shamans) Cure Light Wounds/Cause Light Wounds (1st) Cure Moderate Wounds/Cause Moderate Wounds (2nd) Slow Poison (2nd) Cure Blindness or Deafness/Cause Blindness or Deafness (3rd) Cure Disease/Cause Disease (3rd) Hold Poison (3rd) Repair Injury (3rd) Cure Serious Wounds/Cause Serious Wounds (4th) Fortify* (4th) Neutralize Poison/Poison (4th) Cure Critical Wounds/Cause Critical Wounds (5th) Heal/Harm (6th) Regenerate (7th) Divination (Major: clerics, monks) Analyze Balance (1st) Detect Evil/Detect Good (1st) Detect Poison (1st) Augury (2nd) Detect Charm/Undetectable Charm (2nd) Find Traps (2nd) Detect Spirits (3rd) Extradimensional Detection (3rd) Locate Object/Obscure Object (3rd) Speak with Dead (3rd) Detect Lie/Undetectable Lie (4th) Divination (4th) Omniscient Eye (4th) Consequence (5th) Magic Font (5th) Find the Path/Lose the Path (6th) Stone Tell (6th) Divine Inspiration (7th) Elemental, Air (Major: druids) Wind Column (1st) Dust Devil (2nd) Wind Servant (3rd) Zone of Sweet Air (3rd) Windborne (4th) Air Walk (5th) Cloud of Purification (5th) Control Winds (5th) Whirlwind (6th) Conjure Air Elemental (7th) Wind Walk (7th) All (Major: any priest) Bless/Curse (1st) Combine (1st) Detect Magic (1st) Orison (1st) Purify Food & Drink/Putrefy Food & Drink (1st) Chant (2nd) Mystic Transfer* (2nd) Sanctify/Defile* (2nd) Dispel Magic (3rd) Remove Curse/Bestow Curse (3rd) Focus* (4th) Tongues (4th) Uplift* (4th) Atonement (5th) Commune (5th) Meld* (5th) Quest (5th) True Seeing/False Seeing (5th) Speak with Monsters (6th) Gate (7th) Protection (Major: clerics, shamans; Minor: crusaders) Endure Cold/Endure Heat (1st) Protection from Evil/Protection from Good (1st) Ring of Hands/Ring of Woe* (1st) Sanctuary (1st) Resist Acid and Corrosion (2nd) Resist Fire/Resist Cold (2nd) Withdraw (2nd) Line of Protection/Line of Destruction (3rd) Magical Vestment (3rd) Negative Plane Protection (3rd) Protection from Evil, 10' Radius/Prot. from Good, 10' Radius (3rd) Remove Paralysis (3rd) Spell Immunity (4th) Antiplant Shell (5th) Impregnable Mind (5th) Antianimal Shell (6th) Antimineral Shell (7th) Impervious Sanctity of Mind (7th) Weather (Major: Druids) Faerie Fire (1st) Obscurement (1st) Call Lightning (3rd) Weather Prediction (3rd) Control Temperature, 10' Radius (4th) Protection from Lightning (4th) Weather Stasis (4th) Control Winds (5th) Rainbow (5th) Weather Summoning (6th) Control Weather (7th) Spheres Spell List as of right now: Emotion Read (1st) Thought Capture (1st) Idea (2nd) Mind Read (2nd) Cure Light Wounds/Cause Light Wounds (1st) Cure Moderate Wounds/Cause Moderate Wounds (2nd) Slow Poison (2nd) Analyze Balance (1st) Detect Evil/Detect Good (1st) Detect Poison (1st) Augury (2nd) Detect Charm/Undetectable Charm (2nd) Find Traps (2nd) Wind Column (1st) Dust Devil (2nd) Bless/Curse (1st) Combine (1st) Detect Magic (1st) Orison (1st) Purify Food & Drink/Putrefy Food & Drink (1st) Chant (2nd) Mystic Transfer* (2nd) Sanctify/Defile* (2nd) Endure Cold/Endure Heat (1st) Protection from Evil/Protection from Good (1st) Ring of Hands/Ring of Woe* (1st) Sanctuary (1st) Resist Acid and Corrosion (2nd) Resist Fire/Resist Cold (2nd) Withdraw (2nd) Faerie Fire (1st) Obscurement (1st) Analyze Balance (1st) Detect Magic (1st) Detect Poison (1st) Detect Snares & Pits (1st) Locate Animals or Plants (1st) Augury (2nd) Detect Charm (2nd) Find Traps (2nd) Know Alignment (2nd) Speak With Animals (2nd) Bless (1st) Combine (1st) Detect Evil (1st) Purify Food & Drink (1st) Sanctify/Defile* (2nd) Dust Devil (2nd) Cure Light Wounds (1st) Slow Poison (2nd) Endure Cold/Endure Heat (1st) Protection From Evil (1st) Ring of Hands/Ring of Woe* (1st) Sanctuary (1st) Barkskin (2nd) Resist Fire/Resist Cold (2nd) Withdraw (2nd) Emotion Read (1st) Thought Capture (1st) Idea (2nd) Mind Read (2nd) Faerie Fire (1st) Obscurement (2nd) 4 1st level and 3 2nd level PLUS 3 1st level and 2 2nd level so a total of 7 1st-level spells and 5 2nd-level per day, freely chosen from this spell list.
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Gold
Forum Champion
Ok, good progress. We can work to improve your Spell List notes, with this basis. Can Larry (or with another Player's help if someone is organizationally minded), please update the above spell list to the Template format I'm describing & giving example below. If the Players can work on this over the next few days, meanwhile I'll be working on the upcoming Adventure maps and monsters. After the list is organized in the Template format, we can talk about the spells themselves and discover which ones to queue-up that can be useful in the near-term adventures. This part telling Number of Spells Per Day is good, perfect, you're set. 4 1st level and 3 2nd level PLUS 3 1st level and 2 2nd level so a total of 7 1st-level spells and 5 2nd-level per day, freely chosen from this spell list. For the Spell List, I would like: 1. Break them apart by Spell Level. Group all 1st level spells together. 2. Copy-Paste-Paste-Paste-Paste-Paste to stick the Sphere name with each spell.  3. Later we will add some Notes about the spell's effects, and highlight the spells that Horukh wants to use (Favorites List). TEMPLATE: Horukh's 1st Level Cleric Spells SPHERE: Spell Name (Level + we'll come back to add Notes about the Spell Effects here in the parentheses later) THOUGHT: Emotion Read (1st) THOUGHT: Thought Capture (1st) HEALING: Cure Light Wounds/Cause Light Wounds (1st) Horkuh's 2nd Level Cleric Spells THOUGHT: Idea (2nd) THOUGHT: Mind Read (2nd) HEALING: Cure Moderate Wounds/Cause Moderate Wounds (2nd) HEALING: Slow Poison (2nd) Player(s) Please work to complete Horukh's full spell list of Level 1, Level 2, Level 3, in the above Template format. Torvald & DM  will give additional spell commentary once that's done, to advise you on which spells to concentrate on.
I've been reading up in this thread: <a href="http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66074" rel="nofollow">http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66074</a> and wonder if I've overpowered, underpowered, or completely confused myself.&nbsp; The thread is also commented upon by a ruffian named Gold, so I am not sure who to trust!&nbsp; :)
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Gold
Forum Champion
That DF thread contains some dubious content (hot air), but good for your research. Form your own opinions, as ever. I'll work to make sure no PC is underpowered or feels ineffectual in this campaign. It's intentionally high magic & high fantasy. It's expectedd that you should have a few dozen spells at your disposal, in time. We're already emerging out of the truly low-levels, blossoming into medium power all around (although the opponents are getting stronger and smarter too, compensating as we get better at playing the combat parts of the game). I'll allow fixing if we messed up in your spell selection. If it turns out you're missing an essential Sphere, we'll determine that once we get your current Spell List sorted comprehensively into a nice easy-to-read format.
Gold and everybody, I had an awful time with Roll20 glitching, so I had to retry several times to reply here.&nbsp; I finally found a solution by starting two new topics and then editing them a few times to fix vanished formatting.
Larry, any good Cleric or Priest always has several healing spells memorized; especially at lower levels. Buff spells like Bless, Aid, Silence, etc are all useful. Once you get to a higher level you get stuff like Flamestrike, Healing Touch, and Protection from Evil (radius 10')... Plus your turn undead will flat out kill most low level undead...&nbsp; Basically at at low level you're a heal & buff bot because you lack the spells and spell levels. At higher level you can become a spell caster on par with a Mage; with the ability to wear armor!