Display token name in turn tracker only if you are allowed to see it

I am using Roll20 for D&D 4e. The players dont have knowledge of what monsters the tokens represent (until/unless they successfully skill check) so I have the name plates not visible to the players. However, when I switch turn tracker on, I think they can see the "name" of all the tokens (in the tracker) even though I have set the names to be not visible for the players. I can maybe get around this by not having the known names (leaving blank or having a general "monster 1" on the tokens, and maybe storing the "real" names in the GM notes and dragging the text up (and making visible) on a successful knowledge check. (or I guess just telling the players what the monsters are and not updating the text at all, which makes my combat tracking a little trickier). So my suggestion is that the visibility of the name displayed in the turn tracker should also be controlled by the existing checkbox that determines if the name is displayed on the token to the players. Or an alternative ( as I guess some people may want to display the name only in the turn tracker and not on the board ) - allow the GM to toggle the visibility in the turn tracker( default to not displayed when first added) Unless there is already a better way of getting around this that some of you use ?

I totally agree, its helpful to have names visible for the gm but there should be a way to stop player from seeing it.

I also agree, sometimes I have the names hidden from the players and yet they show up in the turn tracker. I have changed the names to protect the innocent. *coughs* - Gauss

Yes i have started to do the same Gauss.

Thumbs up. I would like to see this also.

Definitely. I found out the hard way that my "nameless monster" was significantly less nameless once he entered combat.

I have come to only add names, when they have actual names that won't help the players and not put their race in, for exactly that reason. Unless I'm fairly sure they know what they're fighting (fought it before or just so obvious, like Goblins or so). So, fully supporting this request

This is probably my biggest gripe with R20 I have.... I wish that unless a token is owned by a player in the game, then the players cannot see the token in the tracker at all, as if the token was on the GM Layer.

For now, I just don't even use the turn tracker >.> It's a bit unwieldy and complicated, anyway. I just use a text box with names and numbers on the side >.>

@Bryan C... that is just a ridiculous suggestion. If players only saw their own token(s), then the only token on the tracker would be theisr'... completely defeating the point of the turn order tracker in the first place. If it's such a problem for you... use a piece of paper and a pencil instead. Implementing your suggestion would be complete and utter folly.

@JonathanTheBlack I totally disagree with you, his idea is sound, a player only really needs to know if it is their turn to act and what token it is that should be acting. So by hiding all other tokens from them would not be all that different from what is being proposed by the OP. I don't rely on the turn tracker to let players know what/who's turn it is anyway and I don't know an GMs that do.

His idea is ridiculous. What's the point of a turn order tracker that only shows your token? It would be useless as a turn order tracker. It would only ever show their token at the top and the player wouldn't have any clue that it was their turn.

And also, players need more info than whether it is their turn or not. Strategy and tactics often come into play based on who acts and when in what order.

Lets be polite folks. We cannot know every game or every way people play. Nor should our own viewpoints be forced on everyone else. If you want to propose a change to how something works that is contradictory to the way many others use it I would suggest adding wording such as: 'as an option' to your proposal. On the other hand, if someone does NOT include those words, you might wish to ask if they had meant it that way rather than assuming they did not. If the idea presented does not make initial sense perhaps you can ask the poster to explain it in more detail. Calling the idea ridiculous is not helpful to anyone. - Gauss Edit: Oh, and I do use the Turn Tracker, other GMs I know use the Turn Tracker. It is very useful. Currently, I replace the names with numbers and then just use the name if they identify the creature (and I feel like changing it).

His idea is ridiculous. What's the point of a turn order tracker that only shows your token? It would be useless as a turn order tracker. It would only ever show their token at the top and the player wouldn't have any clue that it was their turn. I agree that a what you describe would be useless, but its not what is being discussed. And also, players need more info than whether it is their turn or not. Strategy and tactics often come into play based on who acts and when in what order. And the GM will give that info to the player the same way as they do IRL by telling them, as Gauss said this could (and most likely would) be added as an option. In fact for the same reason you think it should be shown I think it shouldn't it gives players a strategic advantage they wouldn't normally have, normally the players would have to memorise or note down the turn order as the GM tells them who's turn it is, it doesn't just float in front of them (or at least in most IRL games it doesn't if you know one were it does please tell me I would love to play it). I don't rely on the turn tracker to let players know what/who's turn it is anyway and I don't know an GMs that do. *raises hand* I do. I find it helpful for all my players to be able to see the play order so they can coordinate when they should be figuring out their move or when they can grab a drink, handled a whisper, or whatever. I tend to name my monsters either "?" or "GAH!" or "WTF Is That Thing?!" until the players succeed a knowledge check to figure out what they're looking at. Do you not tell your players what's going on in the turn order? For example i tend to announce out of habit that it is now X's move I also depending on the players may describe what just happened in that turn, for example "ok your up sam, you just witnessed half your party get cleaved in half by a bugbear what do you do?" Also again this brings up the same point as I put to Jonathan. I can see in a Text based game it may be more useful and may indeed be necessary.

Pigalot, most RL games I have played in (and Ive been playing for decades) that use a turn order also use a whiteboard, peice of paper, or some other, obvious way to show who goes next. Are the monsters on that? Depends on the GM. Some (like myself) prefer to keep it secret. I keep it secret until the monster's first action. Then I put them on the turn order. Are the players on that and can see who is next? In my experience, always. If the GM wants to keep a bit of mystery that is fine. But that mystery evaporates the moment someone acts. There is nothing stopping players from writing down the initiative order themselves. In fact, most GMs I have played with delegate who keeps track of the initiative order just to free them up a bit. Heck, Paizo sells a turn order tool that is magnetic and erasable, so IRL yes, at least enough GMs use an obvious initative counter to warrant making it into a product. - Gauss

Gauss I have the opposite experience, although it has been a while since I played IRL I also watch and listen to quite a few podcasts (although mostly D&D, and both video and audio) and get the impression that most don't use a visible turn order (I get this impression due to the players regularly forgetting or being surprise that its a monsters turn). But again as I said if it was implemented like almost everything with roll20 it really should be an option.

Pigalot, perhaps what is happening (from what you describe) is that the NPC's turn order is hidden. Which, as I said, I often do at least initially. And I know other GMs do that pretty regularly. However, that is different from the players not having a turn order for themselves. Additionally, it is easy for a player to keep track of a monster's turn order after it acts the first time. They just need to make a note on a whiteboard. In any case, different people use it for different reasons. Heck, I use it to keep track of starship speeds in Star Fleet Battles. - Gauss

Yes I know what you mean Gauss, as a player I tend to keep track of every piece of info I'm given. I think it would be nice to have a second name that everyone other than GM can see, I notice that a lot of players (including some of mine) like to give names to monsters as they go so it would be nice to have this on the turn order and maybe even under the token for them.

That would be interesting Pigalot. I would see that as a modification to the token system where people could click on any other token and put in a private name or information for themselves. Not sure how feasible it would be but I definitely see uses for it. - Gauss

Maybe not a private name for each user but simply a player name and GM name, players can only see the player name and GMs can see both maybe in different colours. so for instance in my last game I had a mindflayer (with a token that was clearly a mindflayer) I named it "OMG WTF is that!", two of my players knew what it was with just a look but didnt say anything then one of the others said "OMG its cthulhu" and from then on I renamed him cthulhu, but it would be nice for me to be able to see that he is a mindflayer dominator or what ever he was on my screen.

Pigalot: Without creating a lot of work for the GM (renaming it to a secondary name) I would suggest a proposal where the players can modify a token with some additional player info. But, it would be a major departure from how it currently works. Of course, a second name for the GM to show the players would be a great idea. :) - Gauss

Yes having additional player info like notes and what have you would be nice but also has a small but perhaps problematic storage implications, I think that would work better if it was done using character sheets.

Wow... Throwing things around like that when I have done nothing but try to be helpful here is a little out of line... I think I was misunderstood. I remember typing "I wish that unless a token is owned by a player in the game, then the players cannot see the token in the tracker at all, as if the token was on the GM Layer." What I meant here was, only tokens owned by players show up on the turn tracker. I thought the difference in player/players in my sentences would convey this, but I guess not. If a monster token is present on the turn tracker, it shows as grayed out on the tracker as if the token was on the DM layer. My point was never to create a tracker that only shows the token of one player and that's it. The point of the post was to only allow CHARACTER OWNED TOKENS to be visible on the turn tracker. I know we can set a token to "AS ______" and link it to attributes on their character sheet, I kind of don't see how it is a stretch that unless a token is linked to a character sheet owned by a player this way it shows up hidden on the tracker, as if on the DM layer. I have never really understood why when the turn tracker was open everyone could see it anyhow.... I have been DMing for years and have NEVER shown a player the exact turn order until I started using Roll20. I believe part of the excitement in combat is that anything can happen, and if monsters got the drop on you, that can sometimes add to the thrill. I understand doing this so players know when it is their turn, as we are not playing face to face, but maybe have a page option that states "Turn Tracker Viewable/ Not viewable for players" might just solve a few issues for us DMs that use the tracker to speed things up, and not want our players to know exactly what abyssal creature is standing before them.

I concur Bryant, monster support on the turn tracker would be nice. Both names and the option to show up or not. If we get enough votes perhaps the Dev's will be interested in implementing this sometime. - Gauss

Give each monster a letter and number combination for a name and then give it an attribute that has its name so that it shows up when you double click it. Players should have knowledge of the initiative order so they can work together to plan their tactics and strategy. It helps make combat more interesting for players.

New player here to roll 20. Like it very much. As a suggestion for those that like the turn tracker, but don't want the players to see the whole list, possibly set it to hide list from players, and a second option to notify a player when it is his turn.