Standing out & selling yourself as a player [on LFG]

There are a lot of posts that basically read "I'd like to play in/join a [common system] game at xyz type times/days". If a GM sets up the looking for players thing on a common system like D&D/Pathfinder, they will probably get enough people saying "I'd be interested" to run 5-10 games if they took them all. Even with less common systems like fate/savage worlds/etc, there are still going to be more people interested in joining than there are spaces available. Out of that glut of people, there will be in no particular order: People who just want someone to tell them a story with as little participation on their part as possible (what do you want to play> "I'll let you pick for me, can you make me a character by the way?") People who are going to flake out & drop after 1-2 games, often after a significant time investment on the GM's part trying to do things like teach them basic rules they didn't bother to read People who are going to actively be a problem in whatever way. People who join an active game without bothering to look at what's going on & desperately try to drag the game in a bizzare direction that the rest of the group is likely to eventually say "ok yea, so and so goes off that way, does anybody care? So anyways, moving along..." the rare rare gem of a player who wants to play enough to do things like be involved where/when applicable, help the GM/other players when justified, etc. If you really want to join a game, especially an active one, do things like say a bit about your proposed character concept & things like how you think it fits into the existing setting. Don't just post a list of stats and leave it to the GM to go look them all up, really sell yourself as a player. Don't just say "I like rp heavy games", I find the biggest & most disruptive disruptive munchkins are often the first to say that. People who actually like roleplay heavy games will do things like say what they like about them, maybe give some examples of the types of interactions they find they enjoy, mention that they love when a gm lets them get involved in helping to drive/shape/grow things in the world, etc. Like it or not. a game with a focus on things like character development, roleplay, etc can take quite a bit more effort to run than one where the GM says "so you are all in a bar and..." before throwing you somewhere with a bunch of monsters to kill. You can be as reactive as you want with the second type, in the first type though, you get what you give back. a player who sits by passively following along waiting for things to stop being led by the proactive & involved player who helps drive things during the game & makes posts like "I really liked how x happened",maybe we can try to involve more Y", or "I was thinking and...." from time to time between games. everyone is busy, you don't have a monopoly on it, but don't complain the GM isn't focusing on the characters with players who never answer between game questions or show up late every other game in favor of those who make his/her life easier. show the GM that you bothered to do things like glance at the log, read the campaign details, read the rules, or at least a quick primer on the rules/setting as applicable.

As someone who has experience GM'ing Pathfinder before, I have to agree with all of your points. There is far too many people who don't make much effort at all to show their interest or give any reason why you should invite them to join your game over one of the other 10 or 15 people who sent you messages. Even just casually browsing these forums from time to time I see way too many posts from people saying they want to join a game and that's it. They don't give any more information about themselves or anything of that nature. Even with all that said there also seems to be a severe lack of commitment from the GM side of the table as well. I see posts that say "We're playing Pathfinder, message me if you want to join." They don't post the day or time, what timezone they're in, any character creation details, or anything else at all. Along the same lines is GMs that don't seem like they really care to even make the effort to give their players a decent experience. They show up and seem to be just totally winging it with the storyline, NPC interactions, maps, character tokens, and a host of other things that go along with running a game. I don't expect every game to be run by a professional but it doesn't take that much effort to do things like read the book and take notes so you don't seem so lost when the players are interacting with the world. It also doesn't take much effort to find a way to get the maps from the book into Roll20 instead of making them look like they were drawn in MSPaint an hour before the game started. That's also probably another reason why some of the quality players, and people who really want to put in the effort to do the things you suggest, are fairly rare around here. There are times where I have done the things you've mentioned and the GM doesn't even have the common decency to, at the very least, respond and tell me they're full. I know that GMs get a lot of messages from people when they post openings but it doesn't take long, even if you just use a cookie cutter or pre-written response, to tell people that the group is full. It can get quite frustrating after you've sent messages to 4 or 5 GMs and not a single one of them even bothers to respond to you so it doesn't surprise me that less and less people are taking the easy way and just saying "I want to join."

Hmm, my problem is other - i usually have to tone down my roleplaying because i feel like i may steal spotlight from newer players. Anyway, i am probably decent player, but sure i am bad salesman. From GM point i agree with you, its kinda sad when instead of playing the game players try to find loopholes or get one stat to ridiculous height so they can one-shot BBEG who would of had interesting encounter otherwise. Or trying to be annoying to other players "because this character have such personality".

I agree with what everyone has said, both about the players mentioned in the OP, and about the DMs in the first reply. The greatest thing about roll20 is also one of the worst. Playing online has quite a number of benefits, but also more downsides compared to face-to-face. There's a high possibility that the players (and maybe even sometimes the DM/GM) are farting around on the internet instead of paying attention to what is going on. Also, there is a high turnover on players, as there is a high number of bullet-point #2 when it comes to internet games. It is why I always recommend GMs to recruit an extra player, as almost always there will be 1 person who flakes out, or 1 person who shows up about 50% of the time. And it is always easier to play with 1 less person when you start with 5 than it is when you start with 4. Unfortunately, it is tough to distinguish the players who fall into the first 4 bullet-points from those who would be bullet-point #5 from the replies and PMs in response to a recruitment thread. I have been guilty of just saying "I would be interested" or similar variations of that phrase. Of course, that was in response to barebones OPs that just said "I plan to run so-and-so adventure and looking for players for these times/days". I think all recruitment threads should include character creation rules, what sources are allowed, etc.

As someone who runs a ton of pick-up games, here's my #1 suggestion for players signing up for games: READ. I can't tell you how many times I've posted specific instructions or information only to have a question about the very thing mentioned in the post above. GM's Post: "This game requires all PCs to be pixies." Applicant: "Hey, can I jump in with my dwarf fighter?" GM: "No, you cannot. You have a reading comprehension class to get to." GM's Post: "This game is not appropriate for new players." Applicant: "Can I join? I've never played an RPG before but this looks fun." GM: "You've apparently never read before either." GM's Post: "Post your characters in this thread." Applicant: "Where do I post my character?" GM: "In another person's game for all I care." *kick* So read and respond to requests the GM is making. That's the first (and frequently only) test that I give to players seeking to get into games I'm hosting. If you can demonstrate the ability to read and follow simple instructions, that gives the GM confidence you can do the same during play.

Tossed a link in my post to your thread here so when people is about to join, it would be nice if they had read any of this. I agree with most of what has been said. If the character and player in general is not even interesting and just generic, why bother have the player in the game when others want to play too and can offer a so much better game.

Headhunter Jones said: As someone who runs a ton of pick-up games, here's my #1 suggestion for players signing up for games: READ. I can't tell you how many times I've posted specific instructions or information only to have a question about the very thing mentioned in the post above. GM's Post: "This game requires all PCs to be pixies." Applicant: "Hey, can I jump in with my dwarf fighter?" GM: "No, you cannot. You have a reading comprehension class to get to." GM's Post: "This game is not appropriate for new players." Applicant: "Can I join? I've never played an RPG before but this looks fun." GM: "You've apparently never read before either." GM's Post: "Post your characters in this thread." Applicant: "Where do I post my character?" GM: "In another person's game for all I care." *kick* So read and respond to requests the GM is making. That's the first (and frequently only) test that I give to players seeking to get into games I'm hosting. If you can demonstrate the ability to read and follow simple instructions, that gives the GM confidence you can do the same during play. I am going to quote this in any games I plan to host in the future. Love it!

Holy crap yes, READ THE POST PEOPLE. Every time I write an LFG post on the forum or the other page, 90% of people sending me PMs clearly didn't read a single word of what I wrote. If I say "This is a one-shot dungeon crawl", I get messages saying "I've been looking for a fun campaign!". Well, keep looking, because if the first impression you give me is that you can't be bothered to read a simple post of information, then you just sold yourself to me as a young child, or possible illiterate. Either way, I'm just going to skip over to the next guy who not only took the time to read, and shows it, but can actually put together a message like a real person, with complete sentences that make him look like a competent adult. And most of all, remember; No one owes you anything. Just applying for a game doesn't mean a DM owes you a spot. And inviting you to a game doesn't mean anyone owes you a campaign. Those are things you have to earn, by selling yourself as a decent player. Just like I have to sift through dozens of flakes, children, people who can't read, people who think my game should cater to their timezone specifically, power-gaming "That Guy"s, and all the other undesireables, you need to work just as hard to make yourself stand out from those people. Which means not forgetting you signed up for a game, showing up on time, not being offline on Skype for the whole week until 5 minutes before the game, not missing sessions, and not being the kind of player no one wants to be in a group with. And if you think you don't have anything to change about how you interact with a group, you probably do.

Galen said: Even with all that said there also seems to be a severe lack of commitment from the GM side of the table as well. I see posts that say "We're playing Pathfinder, message me if you want to join." They don't post the day or time, what timezone they're in, any character creation details, or anything else at all. Along the same lines is GMs that don't seem like they really care to even make the effort to give their players a decent experience. They show up and seem to be just totally winging it with the storyline, NPC interactions, maps, character tokens, and a host of other things that go along with running a game. I don't expect every game to be run by a professional but it doesn't take that much effort to do things like read the book and take notes so you don't seem so lost when the players are interacting with the world. It also doesn't take much effort to find a way to get the maps from the book into Roll20 instead of making them look like they were drawn in MSPaint an hour before the game started. This. I'm not going to be able to give you, as a GM, a detailed post about the sort of character I want to play if you, as the GM, can't be bothered to tell me what the restrictions on that character will be, or the setting in which I'm going to place him.

LessPopMoreFizz said: This. I'm not going to be able to give you, as a GM, a detailed post about the sort of character I want to play if you, as the GM, can't be bothered to tell me what the restrictions on that character will be, or the setting in which I'm going to place him. A lot of systems come with a default world or are games set in/based on an already created world. If a game says something like set in "a Ravenloft-like setting", "based in & around the city of doors with high amounts of planar travel" "set in the wilds of Xen'drik", "using the default setting", "savage worlds Necessary evil game in star city", "players are expected to start as non-citizens in the chi-town burbs", "we have a campaign wiki for keeping track of setting stuff here"and any number of other things... they have already done that. If they are using/drawing from an existing/default setting, It's almost certainly because they are familiar with it, or at least like something about it. All of those things can give you quite a bit of info in seconds with a quick click/google search. It's one thing to say something like "I'm interested in playing a dogboy, would it fit into the part of the burbs as a nonctizen if we say he was discharged/lost/etc? since they were never really citizens to begin with., it's something else entirely to say something out of place because you didn't feel like looking up the mentioned setting.

Yes James, you're absolutely right. If someone posts that much information then yes, they've given the information that potential players would need. The point I made, and the one that LessPop was referencing, was when GMs DO NOT do any of that. I've experienced it first hand and I absolutely agree that a lot of the players here don't make much effort to distinguish themselves and therefore should read this post. However I do think it's a bit unfair to make a post like this and to not at least concede that GMs on this site could also use some work on the methods they choose to employ when it comes to finding good players. There has to be a give and take between both the players and the GM instead of having GMs think that the onus is on the players to sell themselves when the GM should be working to sell themselves as well. That's the point LessPop and I are trying to make.

James, thanks for posting this. I've been relatively lucky with my Friday, and Sunday night Traveller games. Though I'm still learning roll20, yet even Skype. I tend to make a lot of mistakes with both which makes for hilarity by my players who are sometimes very experienced game masters with this software. I have experienced people who post: "Hey let me join your game." or "Can I join your game?" and nothing else. I prefer those who say: "I have played Traveller," "I like Traveller," "I read your setup document and I'm really intrigued" I have only played D&D 3,5 but I'd like to try Traveller" and they suggest an idea for a character. I have also experienced those who are no call no-show or let the whole week pass with no e-mail contact, no Skype contact, and they don't even show up, even though they are accepted to the campaign. I give those players one more week, and if no PC by thursday night, i'll kick them. I do my best to let prospective players know ahead of time what is required, what is the theme and style to the campaign, relevant books they can use, and all this stuff that the GM that really cares does for setup to make it easy for the prospective player. I know I'm relatively rare in these actions; My players have told me so, and have in fact left other games with less committed GM's for mine. I don't feel all that bad about it, because these players give 110%, and I guess from the comments, their Gms were not giving that much. So I'm lucky my players are lucky both of my groups are lucky and we're playing and now we're full. To you other GMs out there looking for players, put in the work. To players out there looking for GM's and a great game, put in the work. I found two full groups of Traveller players here in less than two weeks. Many people often consider Traveller to be a dead game that nobody plays any more. Bwah Ha, lies, all lies. We're making it happen because were to a great shared science fiction experience and we work at it. Good luck to all, and lets get some kick-ass games going around here. It all starts with a patient, dedicated GM willing to go the extra mile. the community can only benefit.

@Galen. I don't deny that there are not GM's who don't do enough, but that's really a topic for another thread & probably not as simple to summarize given how many types of problems there could be on that end. as to why I started this thread the other night?... I read through a few pages back & went "o.0 really???" at the number of "I'd like to play x">"are there no GM's for X?" threads combined with my own experiences with "I'd be interested in joining"

As a GM I find posting a Disclaimer in the LFG listing of the game has gone a huge way to pre-screen players. Then I look for posts where the player mentions something they read in the disclaimer or world info. But then again I am still new to Roll20 and I have a habit of over informing people.

i feel bad .. when i play a cleric/paladin or anyone devoted to a god i seem to steer the party toward my goals as a player because of it

mike s said: i feel bad .. when i play a cleric/paladin or anyone devoted to a god i seem to steer the party toward my goals as a player because of it I'm not too sure how that's relevant to the current topic mike, but okay.... From a prospective GM's perspective I don't think it's too much to ask that I get to know the player. Granted I haven't run a game here yet, but the two games I've been in prior and the one I'm currently in now all came about because I actually posted in the forum, and communicated with the GM. I see applying for a game a lot like applying for a job, oh god I'm sure a lot of people are depressed when I said that; what I mean is not only do you have to now how to sell your strengths but also make your weaknesses look good, and you have to know your interviewer, the scenario is one in which the GM already has a spot in the game, you need to show that one of those other spots is right for you, heck who knows you might even not want to be in the game after some communication and understanding of the game, it happens and at least you leave on goods terms because they may run another game and it'll be that much easier to reintroduce yourself to them.

I find the most surefire way as a DM to get "decent" players is to make them put some effort into joining the game. Of course, step one is putting in some effort myself to tell people about what they can expect from the game. As such, I tend to make my LFG posts here or elsewhere rather long-ish. This is a nice little hurdle for people to jump, because it makes it really easy for me to weed out the people that did not bother to read the information there. If you don't go beyond posting "I will run a Pathfinder game at 6pm GMT on fridays" it's kinda hard to distinguish one "I wanna play" post from another. On the other hand, if you put a lot of info about the game into your original post and ask the players questions that they can already answer in their first post, that makes it super easy for me to see who can read and who can't. Yea, this is a bit mean, but honestly, you need to pick and chose between the 20ish players applying for each game and when in doubt, I'd rather have the guys I can be reasonably sure will show up and be fun to play with as opposed to the guy blurting out one line of text demanding a spot and somehow managing to make 3 spelling errors in a 10 word sentence. Conversely, as a player, I find it helps to show the DM that you are willing to put some effort into it as well. I've had players be like "I will only write a character concept if you guarantee me a spot". Really? You cannot be assed to write 5 lines of text without getting a signed in blood contract assuring you a place in the game? I could go on, but it all boils down to this, at least as far as I as a DM am concerned: Give me some info about yourself, the game you want to play, and if applicable: the kind of character you want to bring.

James M. said: LessPopMoreFizz said: This. I'm not going to be able to give you, as a GM, a detailed post about the sort of character I want to play if you, as the GM, can't be bothered to tell me what the restrictions on that character will be, or the setting in which I'm going to place him. A lot of systems come with a default world or are games set in/based on an already created world. If a game says something like set in "a Ravenloft-like setting", "based in & around the city of doors with high amounts of planar travel" "set in the wilds of Xen'drik", "using the default setting", "savage worlds Necessary evil game in star city", "players are expected to start as non-citizens in the chi-town burbs", "we have a campaign wiki for keeping track of setting stuff here"and any number of other things... they have already done that. If they are using/drawing from an existing/default setting, It's almost certainly because they are familiar with it, or at least like something about it. All of those things can give you quite a bit of info in seconds with a quick click/google search. It's one thing to say something like "I'm interested in playing a dogboy, would it fit into the part of the burbs as a nonctizen if we say he was discharged/lost/etc? since they were never really citizens to begin with., it's something else entirely to say something out of place because you didn't feel like looking up the mentioned setting. Well sure, but most of those worlds are pretty big places. Even something as simple as 'urban campaign' or 'dungeon crawl' goes a million miles and often just isn't there though.

I have taken to inviting everyone (even some one-liners) to an Interview session. 90% never show up, the rest get interviewed about their age, experience with roleplaying, No-Gos when it comes to campaign content. Then I explain the setting a bit more and emphasise what I expect and need from my players and ask for a basic character concept (f.e. a "good natured, always positive and jovial trickster hanging out in bars, making a living with temporary jobs and has a wide array of skills" or something), give ~3 example scenarios and gauge the characters' reaction as to whether they would be a good fit or not. Afterwards, we vote on who made the best impression and create the character with that person. And of course, this is also a way to check peoples' mics and internet connection which is a surprisingly common issue... not to mention a potential player f.e. constantly being interrupted / having to go afk mid-interview. And even all of that which sounds excessive to a lot of people is far from guaranteeing that the accepted player will stay long-term, will not suddenly completely change their attitude or will be active and seeking out their own goals in the campaign. Nothing can really be done about that, unfortunately... I think.

Mouse said: Nothing can really be done about that, unfortunately... I think. But why? Maybe some sort of trust system could be built on top of LFG? For example (bear with me, I'm improvising here), you as a GM can rate players you've played with. Those ratings are visible only to GMs, but (to provide some bias for GMing style and mutual preferences) only the ones you played with could have full "face value" to you. If ratings come from people you played with the rating comes at -1. If rating comes from people that played with people that you played with the rating comes at -2 and so forth. By correlating the rating with roll20 badges on time played or GMed one could get an idea if the player is worth something. Or you can ask some questions at least. :) The noobs could get their first rankings from GMs that started running some intro/tutorial/bootcamp games recently. Everyone either would be interested to maintain their ranking if they wanted variety (and it means reading all the GM requests and info attentively and submit information properly) or else they could ignore this thing altogether if they intend to play with a group of close friends and aren't interested in the community at all.

@vienastoks: We had a notes/rating discussion just recently, and the issue simply still is: every roleplaying group is different. Some like jokers, some don't mind a few more quiet players, some prefer hack&slash, some prefer sandbox, some prefer dark, some don't mind playing without one of the players every now and then, some just do powergaming as a standard, some do the standard 'you meet in a bar' thing, some appreciate meta and so on... A simple thumbs up or down wouldn't work. Heck, even the term roleplaying itself is defined -very- differently among GMs and players so you couldn't rate that one a good or bad either. Just as your style - or not. If such a thing would be done, it would only work with rating semi-objective things. Or maybe do things on a neutral scale, like 1-5 from Joker to Serious. Other than that, only stuff like punctuality, reliability, attentiveness maybe. That would help with the worst offenders, at least.

Mouse said: That would help with the worst offenders, at least. I disagree - the worst offenders are likely to just come back with a new account and a blank slate. It's people who have sizable amounts of time and/or money invested that stand to lose more due to a spurious bad ranking.

I've posted on a player rating system in the past and was somewhat in favor of it. However after some time I no longer am. It just creates outcasts which is not what we want to grow the hobby. If any rattings system were to take place it should just be a thumbs up button and only the top 10%, possibly less, of people and GMs should get a little thumbs up token behind their name similar to the mentor and supporter tokens. This way the really excellent players and GM's stand out but no one is excluded.

Dave D. said: Mouse said: That would help with the worst offenders, at least. I disagree - the worst offenders are likely to just come back with a new account and a blank slate. It's people who have sizable amounts of time and/or money invested that stand to lose more due to a spurious bad ranking. QFT. Thinking a bit about it, what with the time and money investment that some people put into their campaigns, I wouldn't want to implement a rating system as part of the roll20 app if I were the developers. You can't keep people from keeping their own notes on other players, but to have someone wrongly blackballed from games because of a little negative rating icon next to their name that they didn't deserve, and stuck with that account because of their investment probably isn't something anybody wants to have to look out for.

On this "ratings" theme again, something simple and perhaps effective over time is to have GM's and players put their own list in their Bio's. Nothing drastic here needless to say but something like Out of X number of players I have GMed, I would recommend in general (as to showing up/fun/what have you in general) GMed 14 player in Pathfinder Would gladly GM again any time for Sally X Dave Y Steve Z and so on.... And if other GM's have questions on these PC's they can simply PM that GM/DM if more info as/if needed to decide if this person would fit into that GM's game style/party dynamic for more specific info. IF there was some kind of negative experience then certain PC's each GM/DM has playyed with at some point is simply not listed, no harm no foul, so to speak for any undeserved/different play styles. Same would go for players and their Bio's as well for GM/DM's they have experience with. PC'ed with 4 GM/DM's I would have no problems with playing in another(Pathfinder/D&D/Other) game GM/DMed by Sammy A. Marvin B. Susan C. So players as well could PM other players who have had in game experiences with said listed GM/DM's for more info. I know with all the traffic coming in and out of this place, it is'nt much, but with time and GM's and PC's taking the time to do such in their Bio's (at their own discression), it could be a big help later on down the line. Or for those serious on getting something up and not guessing what one may get as a GM/DM or as a player. Pre session to get to know PC's and GM/DM's are still hit or miss sometimes so this would be another tool anyone can turn to to make a better, more informed decision. Many names will be MIA but there could be a number of basic reasons, not a "bad" PC or GM, but there will be a base starting to form and at least there is something to look at. One can make this as simple or as complicated as one wants, but I think this might just help many out here, for those who take the time anyways. Thoughts? Tom

Askren said: Holy crap yes, READ THE POST PEOPLE. Every time I write an LFG post on the forum or the other page, 90% of people sending me PMs clearly didn't read a single word of what I wrote. If I say "This is a one-shot dungeon crawl", I get messages saying "I've been looking for a fun campaign!". Well, keep looking, because if the first impression you give me is that you can't be bothered to read a simple post of information, then you just sold yourself to me as a young child, or possible illiterate. Either way, I'm just going to skip over to the next guy who not only took the time to read, and shows it, but can actually put together a message like a real person, with complete sentences that make him look like a competent adult. For the adventure I'm running tonight, I've had to kick 6 applicants who clearly didn't read simple instructions about the game. No, I'm not kidding. It's completely crazy. If you're a player struggling to get into good games, READ and FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS . That'll get your foot in the door. Once in the door, DO FUN STUFF . That's all a GM really wants out of you and it's not much to ask.

@Headhunter: This, definitely. It is surprising how many applicants just don't read anything that is provided to them. @Tom GM/PC: The issue with notes - be they on my own harddrive or in my profile - is that a profile name is easily changed, which makes it impossible to keep track of players. The 'recently played with' thingie is good, but not sure it shows everyone you ever played with or just (as the text implies) the most recent 10 ones or something. So yeah, for me personally that wouldn't cut it :) ymmv

@Tom GM/PC: The issue with notes - be they on my own harddrive or in my profile - is that a profile name is easily changed, which makes it impossible to keep track of players. The 'recently played with' thingie is good, but not sure it shows everyone you ever played with or just (as the text implies) the most recent 10 ones or something. So yeah, for me personally that wouldn't cut it :) ymmv I've noticed that when you mouse over a player's name in a forum, the link shows a number, e.g. <a href="https://app.roll20.net/users/197477" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/users/197477</a> . I'm assuming that number is unique to the player and is what I've started using instead of the easily changed screen name.

Canso said: I've noticed that when you mouse over a player's name in a forum, the link shows a number, e.g. <a href="https://app.roll20.net/users/197477" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/users/197477</a> . I'm assuming that number is unique to the player and is what I've started using instead of the easily changed screen name. Ah, did not know or notice that. Thanks for the heads up, will make my own notetaking a lot easier.

Mouse said: @Headhunter: This, definitely. It is surprising how many applicants just don't read anything that is provided to them. @Tom GM/PC: The issue with notes - be they on my own harddrive or in my profile - is that a profile name is easily changed, which makes it impossible to keep track of players. The 'recently played with' thingie is good, but not sure it shows everyone you ever played with or just (as the text implies) the most recent 10 ones or something. So yeah, for me personally that wouldn't cut it :) ymmv Hey Mouse, thanks for the reply. Yep, they sure can be, BUT I think since I am talking about only listing "good/would play with again" and not anything negative Player, GM's/DM's, I think the name jumping would be minimal and as people here start to figure out that if they keep their site names the same on Roll20, good things can happen,. And it would be a bit easier to figure out who to let into as players, and join games by GM/DM's rather than the almost literal crap shoot we have going now. For me as I am GMing my first game and now just entering into a game as a player, my list would be rather small compared to most. But have you checked out the ever expanding Player Directory list Lately? Pathfinder had about 9 pages after the new revamp update and now it is up to 23 Pages!!! "Other Games" went from 5 pages to 24 pages, The D&D versions not quite so much, but once you ad them all up, even bigger that those above. I've been on here almost daily for the past 3 months and I have not noticed any name changes, and I look at those lists a lot. LOL I am most likely going to GM or playing Pathfinder games and various types of War games, And one has to almost figure that there is a somewhat steady base of good players and GM/DM's here. After a while the "good ones" or at least give their best as to showing up, reading and genuine interested in finishing what they commit to when signing up to a game, be it as a player or the one running it. With all the new faces popping up this list will not be thee thing to do so it gets everybody but I bet by a certain amount of time a good list will be available for many to see and use for a better gaming experience overall. I am going to redo my Bio a bit and then you can take a look at it, no time at this moment but very soon. Tom