Duplicating Page should copy whole page including all layers

I'm sorry for the delay between postings. This has proven more difficult to implement than we had hoped. The suggestion that we change name of the button if we're not is simple, but I don't want to change the status of this suggestion based on that change. With that, I wanted to ask a question: When you go to duplicate a page, what is your end goal? Are you backing up the creation work? Are you setting a "reversion point?" Are you revisiting the adventure? Do you set up "template" pages that you want to copy and edit for smaller changes? Is it something else entirely?

Could be all of your suggestions, but mostly templates.  Edit: Please don't try to make this a sophisticated thing. I just want to copy a page as it is with everything on it exactly the same. All images, tokens, dynamic light, fog of war etc. should just copy. As to why should be completely irrelevant, because there are multiple possible reasons. 

I want to copy a page mostly when I am trying to create a new but similar page, and I’d like to take advantage of some amount of the work I’ve already done with regards to page settings, map tiles, dynamic lighting, tokens, etc.  I personally don’t plan to use template pages repeatedly, but I could see how that would be super useful for some people. More rarely it is to make a backup because I or my players are about to mess with it and I want to be able to revert to its previous state.  For this purpose a Page Revert feature would be useful, but that feature would NOT address the majority of the desire for the Page Copy feature to do what most people expect it to. If you could elaborate on which part of an existing page is difficult to copy onto a newly created page, maybe we could tell you whether it would be acceptable to just leave that part out, or help you brainstorm alternatives / work-arounds?

As Danii said, there may be many possible reasons. For me, for instance, is that I want to make a castle with various levels. So after I have made the first level with a lot of work, I want to make the second level exactly as the first, and then just change a few tokens and items. With current copy/paste feature this doesn't work at all, as it messes up all the positions of the tiles (front/back), and it's very difficult to make it match in the page especially when you use a lot of tiles. The re-organization is like hell, and I give up using such method. If you can fully copy the previous work page as you have done it before (an exact copy), it saves a lot of working hours!

Still waiting for this. To answer the question above: What I want to do is backup my page. It took me a lot of time to make, and I want to (a) make sure I don't accidentally lose it by an accidental deletion, (b) preserve it in its original state so I can potentially reuse it in another campaign, and (c) do some complex experimentation while being able to load up the page the way I had it before. I really want to save everything on the page -- backgrounds, tokens, GM notes, and dynamic lighting.

Save time. The 'template' (I've set up the grass for a quadrant of the village, I want to make the 4 quadrants of the village on the same template). The REPLAY is extremely important --- set up a battle ground, COPY it before letting players trash / flame / scribble / deconstruct. Think of chess or checkers here too, RESET the table to the starting status (and still preserve the remnants of the old page, if you wish). Not so much backup, of course, there are already other reasonable methods for backup such as duplicating the game. The cool thing about Roll20's model of being a system-agnostic tabletop and just giving us the tools we would have at a real tabletop, there may be many other reasons & ideas why people would want this, or find ways to use this. Probably whole games built for the Marketplace would become possible to create from the ease-of-page-creation that this will afford. So in this case basically an old-school Xerox machine* is sitting by our tabletop and we can make a complete copy of our own page in our own game, for any reason, whenever we like. * could be copying machine or, Camera-and-printer.  Overhead projector.  Tic-Tac-Toe book with lots of blank pages.  Hangman game that you can quickly redraw and start again.  Chess or Checkers tournament where you see a room full of 20 copies of the same board set-up and each will play-out differently at the same time in the same gaming event. DnD cool puzzle you set up (like the Laser puzzles in the marketplace), which you might want to rearrange the details/solution repeatedly from the same basic background and tokens with all their settings. just a few examples I'm sure there are so many more ways to use a copy but a lot would fit under Replay, Reset, Template. Kenton said: When you go to duplicate a page, what is your end goal? Are you backing up the creation work? Are you setting a "reversion point?" Are you revisiting the adventure? Do you set up "template" pages that you want to copy and edit for smaller changes? Is it something else entirely?

+1 So many, basic, reasons why.  Safety being my top one: what if I'm just not sure of something I want to try, how could I protect us from my own clumsiness?  But the list goes on.

I came upon a situation where I had a ground level map. Part outside, part inside of two buildings. Both buildings had second floors, necessitating another page. I wanted the characters to be able to use ranged weapons/spells out of the second floor down onto ground level. "Not a problem," I thought. "I'll just make the ground floor map, make an exact copy, then replace the first floors with the second floors. This way all the outside terrain--trees, shrubs, rocks, cliffs, boxes, barrels, and dirt paths--would be in the exact same place on the second map." As simple as that seems, it was not be. There are plenty of very good reasons why there should be a true duplicate page function.

I made a whole village map. The village whole has a bunch of NPC tokens on it, things for them all to do, etc. At some point the village is going to come under attack and I want to have it at different stages of damaged/on fire because modifying the map on the fly during a session is cumbersome and I can't get the same level of work I would be able to if I was putting it together ahead of time. I just looked back and this topic is years old. I am flabbergasted that this hasn't been implemented yet when people half been asking for it for close to half a decade. Point blank question here, why is duplicating a map not a thing? And how has there not been an official workaround yet?

Geoffrey B. said: And how has there not been an official workaround yet? There is, but it requires the Transmogrifier, which is pro sub only, and another game to move it through to create the copy.

The True Page Copy script does this without needing to transfer to a different game and back, but as it's a script it still requires Pro. Kraynic said: Geoffrey B. said: And how has there not been an official workaround yet? There is, but it requires the Transmogrifier, which is pro sub only, and another game to move it through to create the copy.

Thank you all for the answers to my questions. That really does help. Understanding why is key, as a "copy" function works for most aspects, there are other enhancements we can look to achieve as well.

+1

@Kenton - is there maybe a simpler workaround that we can enable in the immediate future that we're overlooking? Like enabling copy and paste between maps if it isn't already? That way at least a whole layer can be copy/pasted. Or providing some sort of back-end scripting through the transmogrifier that doesn't require a pro subscription? The largest number of times I've wished I had this feature comes from when I want to make an external section to a map, and rather than make a large map even larger, i'd rather duplicate it, delete a chunk, slide what's left over to one side, and draw in the external bits.

Allow actual duplication of pages (with all assets) by clicking duplicate, and allow folders for pages.  Any folders should be accessible in *all* games.

This functionality, along with other tooling that could allow for reuse or templating of map assets, is the single reason why I am not a subscriber of Roll20, despite paying for premium content. Consider doing this, your competition (read: Astral) has this sort of capability, and it's probably affecting your market share.

Yes, pro user here.  Need this very basic function for all the reasons other users said: using certain maps as a template, one version as a working copy, and an original.  I also have a unique situation with a very large memory consuming map, that I wanted to copy and then split into a Western half and Eastern half, but cannot.  Very frustrating. As other users said, doesn't need to be complicated, just copy with all layers and settings (OR give toggle choices to choose which layers).

+1 Needed to do a Ethereal Plane version of a complex map yesterday and I wished I had the possibility to just copy the original one and make some changes. 

+1 Maybe make it so that the duplicate button uses the already existing transmogrify code and just set the target to the same campaign instead of a different one? I don't know your code, but it seems easily doable from an outsider perspective.

Also really missing this; I am setting up a Sci Fi campaign in the Star Drive universe and i have two dozen systems that I need to configure pages for, following a standard format, and manually doing this is just such a chore

+1

+1

Thanks again for all your feedback. From what I'm reading there are two aspects of this: Straight forward copy: creates a duplicate of the page in question available in the Page Menu Backup and Revert: which stores all the data from the page but doesn't clutter your Page Menu, and provides an easy reset point.

Sure, but we'll take the straight forward copy first.

Kenton said: Thanks again for all your feedback. From what I'm reading there are two aspects of this: Straight forward copy: creates a duplicate of the page in question available in the Page Menu Backup and Revert: which stores all the data from the page but doesn't clutter your Page Menu, and provides an easy reset point. I'm fairly certain the the Straight Forward Copy is exactly what people are asking for. Having to do this via API is cumbersome considering it's a very necessary feature if you are wanting to make map variations and make pages that can be used as templates. While "True Copy" exists having it at Pro is most certainly an issue for many people. Backup and Revert seems... very unaffiliated with the requests before.

Meta K. said: Kenton said: Thanks again for all your feedback. From what I'm reading there are two aspects of this: Straight forward copy: creates a duplicate of the page in question available in the Page Menu Backup and Revert: which stores all the data from the page but doesn't clutter your Page Menu, and provides an easy reset point. I'm fairly certain the the Straight Forward Copy is exactly what people are asking for. Having to do this via API is cumbersome considering it's a very necessary feature if you are wanting to make map variations and make pages that can be used as templates. While "True Copy" exists having it at Pro is most certainly an issue for many people. Backup and Revert seems... very unaffiliated with the requests before. Agreed with Meta. Just last night I had to recreate a town alley map that I'm using for 3 different encounters. I already used this map in a previous session, so I copy it and use it again for those new encounters. Being to use a copy function that copies everything (map layer, token layer, GM layer, and Dynamic Lighting) would have saved me about an hour of work.

Kenton said: When you go to duplicate a page, what is your end goal? Are you backing up the creation work? Are you setting a "reversion point?" Are you revisiting the adventure? Do you set up "template" pages that you want to copy and edit for smaller changes? Is it something else entirely? Pretty much all of the above. I came to this because I'm building an adventure on Roll20 and guiding a group through it. But I also want to reuse it later (or at the same time) and not have to rebuild all the maps after one group past through them.

Hi Kenton, I definitely appreciate the goal of addressing the root issue instead of symptoms, and/or addressing the needs in the most elegant and globally useful way. That said, please consider if there is a quick and easy way to do the straightforward copy, and if so just implement that even if implementing both in a more complicated way would be a more elegant solution.  We can use the copy to implement our own “revert” as needed, and it sounds like most people would rather have just the copy sooner. I’d much rather you spend time after that on lighting or other features rather than revert, for example. As always, thanks for listening! Kenton said: Thanks again for all your feedback. From what I'm reading there are two aspects of this: Straight forward copy: creates a duplicate of the page in question available in the Page Menu Backup and Revert: which stores all the data from the page but doesn't clutter your Page Menu, and provides an easy reset point.

Sabre Runner said: Kenton said: When you go to duplicate a page, what is your end goal? Are you backing up the creation work? Are you setting a "reversion point?" Are you revisiting the adventure? Do you set up "template" pages that you want to copy and edit for smaller changes? Is it something else entirely? Pretty much all of the above. I came to this because I'm building an adventure on Roll20 and guiding a group through it. But I also want to reuse it later (or at the same time) and not have to rebuild all the maps after one group past through them. You can duplicate your game.  All your pages including all the layers and dynamic lighting polygons will be copied to the duplicate.

Yes, Kenton. We need just the 'duplicate' page ASAP. I already gave up advancing on several maps I'm building because I find it too tedious having to repeat each of the layers, for the different levels, as it is so much work and waste of time. As soon as this feature is on, it would be a matter of a click, and I can't wait to see this feature implemented...

Stuart M. said: You can duplicate your game.  All your pages including all the layers and dynamic lighting polygons will be copied to the duplicate. So, if I'm guiding two groups through the same game at the same time while I'm building it, that means duplicating the game every week, forcing one group to rejoin the game and reimport the characters. Thanks.

+1 This is so very much needed here in roll20. Its just basics - need that when I want to copy my deafult map with generic background/setup made for different encounters. 

When I want to copy a page in one of my games, I am looking to make a copy the background and Dynamic lightning, mostly to try out new features without risking to undo stuff that I have spend hours on placing, sometimes I want to a complete copy so to have the game in two worlds.

+1 The reason that I have searched this topic is that I want a series of "portal rooms" between zones in my dungeon - they are all the same as each other except that different portals need to be lit up for different zone - I would like to add notes on the GM layer to remind myself where each portal goes. I made one version of this room, now I just want to copy it 8 times and write different things on the GM layer of each room but it looks like I will have to recreate the room 8 times because Copy-Paste hasn't been invented in Roll20 yet.

+1 I'm about to run a second group throught he same dungeon, but I'm also still updating how things are working in my games. I know I can duplicate the whole game which is what I am doing but then I have to reset the current dungeon that the original group has been going through, having an 'used' copy would mean no reset!

Where is this!? It's also crazy to me that when I do copy paste all assets from one page to its duplicate, I then have to go back and completely restack everything as it doesn't remember the layering order. Such a huge waste of time. 

+1

+1 I've been using Roll20 for five years now at all levels of subscription, and it baffles me that basic functionality like this is still missing. It'd be a huge blessing for GMs and players everywhere and save so many hours of time.

+1 I just started creating my first map today, and already stumbled upon this problem. Doesn't devs use their own product, or doesn't they give a damn? Whole interface looks very cheap for a product, that generates money..

+1 I'd love this. I frequently want to copy all of a page and then make changes to the duplicate.

Kenton said: I'm sorry for the delay between postings. This has proven more difficult to implement than we had hoped. The suggestion that we change name of the button if we're not is simple, but I don't want to change the status of this suggestion based on that change. With that, I wanted to ask a question: When you go to duplicate a page, what is your end goal? Are you backing up the creation work? Are you setting a "reversion point?" Are you revisiting the adventure? Do you set up "template" pages that you want to copy and edit for smaller changes? Is it something else entirely? All of the above, but mostly templates, or building a new map that has many similar features. It's especially useful when I want to build different variants of a setting (say, a castle that is visited at different times and has had changes to it, but the layout is still basically the same.) This wouldn't be as big a deal if copy/paste worked right. But when I copy all the elements from one page to another, they never paste in the right place, often half of them end up off page and unreachable. You can ctrl-a and move, but even then, I find that they don't paste in exactly the same position relative to one another, so it's not just at matter of shifting everything down and to the right.

Kenton, I understand your desire to make the best possible fix for people.  But could you please get a minimum viable product for this out the door. It has as people have said been years.  Currently you have a duplicate button that covers a very small minor use case.  Since I can set up my campaigns to use template settings for each page. So currently the duplicate button allows me to :  Avoid at most a minute of work changing the page settings. This is assuming that I have already created a page that has the new page settings that are not the default for the campaign. That also happen to be identical to this new page I am creating, and I remember that I have such a page and should duplicate it.  The time you are saving me is the time taken to enter data into a form with 15 fields. Which as a feature sure, always up for more options but when you compare it to below :  If I could copy everything from every layer in one page plus the page settings to another page. You would save me 10-30 minutes of work, where I try to re-align grids especially the dynamic light layers. Which honestly any option that avoids me having to draw more of those lines would be appreciated. Also I would still be able to use this for your current duplicate use case - as (select all - Plus delete) on each layer would still be pretty fast.  It is somewhat telling the effort people put in to work around a simple copy one page as is (lock stock and barrel) - to another, has spawned so many work-a-rounds. Including setting up dummy campaigns etc. Think how much work people are putting in, to just copy everything from one page to another...

I think so. Speaking for myself, when I voted for the thread,  Duplicating Page should copy whole page including all layers I thought that it meant exactly, and exclusively just that one aspect: "Straight forward copy: creates a duplicate of the page in question available in the Page Menu". Kenton said: Thanks again for all your feedback. From what I'm reading there are two aspects of this: Straight forward copy: creates a duplicate of the page in question available in the Page Menu Straight forward copy: creates a duplicate of the page in question available in the Page Menu This is exciting to see the thread marked as "Queued". Thank you again for today.

Can I just say that this thing going into the queue is... ABOUT [[ EXPLATIVE EXPUNGED ]] TIME?!? I BECAME a pro subscriber to have the votes to spam on this issue, and that was around half a decade ago, and it's gotten queued NOW ?!?  Maybe, instead of fooling about with dynamic lighting some more, you should work on core issues with the overall platform functions like this, maybe?

That five years later this is STILL NAMED WRONG says a whole lot about the developers. ye gods you guys suck.

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, people. I understand it's frustrating, but there's no reason to rail and curse at the developers. It's only going to make the product managers less inclined to follow through with your supported suggestions.

Ian said: [...]It's only going to make the product managers less inclined to follow through with your supported suggestions. Then i don't want to be their supporter. It's not like there are no other options

Ian said: I understand it's frustrating, but there's no reason to rail and curse at the developers.  Like ---- there isn't Ian. If they don't like getting swears thrown at them they should strongly consider dealing with major issues like this one in a timely manner . I've been a pro user since back when I was still MARRIED, in fact, this sight was part of why I broke up with my ex, and I chose them over her: so IDK, I think I kinda have A Right to be a little bit salty when they drop the ball this badly.  (In fairness, she and I were on the outs already at that point, but, still...)

Alexei Y-M. said: Seconding what Brad just said above: and have a suggestion: rename the current 'duplicate page' to "Copy Current Parameters" and make "Duplicate Page" work like a quick Transmogrifier copy but only be available to Plus Users... That's my first quote in this thread, from three years ago The fact that this isn't already fixed  not just queued is greatly concerning.

+1