Bring back old right-hand menu icons

Hello. The new right-hand menu icons are not helpful and do not represent the topics they stand for very good. It is difficult to describe them in audio game-play for DMs. Please bring back the old icons. Cheers, Marc

+1 Noticed that as well. Will take a long time before getting used to it... Markochaney said: Hello. The new right-hand menu icons are not helpful and do not represent the topics they stand for very good. It is difficult to describe them in audio game-play for DMs. Please bring back the old icons. Cheers, Marc

Very much agree. When giving verbal directions to my players, usually at least one or twice per session for newer games, it is much easier to tell them to click on the italicized i for the compendium and the icon which looks like a newspaper for the journal.  Now I have to specify the open book versus the closed book.  I can already foretell that some will ignore the modifier and focus on the word 'book', The new chat icon is OK. The art library sings of art and I can see new players mistaking it for the drawing tool. Take the nice artist palette you have and place it on a folder and it would be very indicative of what it represents.  You are welcome. The jukebox is a bit more complex than what is needed.  A couple of music notes would give a much simpler and cleaner appearance. The collections icon is just a mess.  The old one was fine. the new one can easily be mistaken for the settings tab since they both show a GEAR. The big question is where was the outcry to change the icons in the first place?  Why change something that worked OK for a mess that makes it harder for newer players to decipher.  If you are going to make a change, keep it simple and don't try to be so fancy.

+1 Oginme said: ... The big question is where was the outcry to change the icons in the first place?  Why change something that worked OK for a mess that makes it harder for newer players to decipher.  If you are going to make a change, keep it simple and don't try to be so fancy.

Sadly yes, these new icons appear more visually complicated, and kind of distracting, although you could get used to them. I too prefer the previous itteration, overall and going 1-by-1, for these icons above chat in the tabletop. The jukebox one in particular, took it way too literally trying to depict a Jukebox (the old machine with speakers that plays small vinyl records). The previous Playlist icon (music note with list) was nice and recognizable as it was before. Pics for comparison for the discussion:  The new as-of-this-moment on my Roll20 tabletop,  The previous ('old') appearance was like this, 

Roll20 seems to constantly change graphic elements that actually make it worse. The garish pink and white coloring, the change to out white text on a white background on pop-ups... On the other hand it is inclusive to have people with zero design skill making design decisions. :^)

Already send Tickets to the Devs for the last one and the missing contrast in VTT since the change of the Sidebar that is now glaring white in Lightmode... They REALLY need to hire someone to help them with their overall design choices... Someone who actually know what he does and - more important - has a clue of what accessibility means (and what it entails)... al e. said: Roll20 seems to constantly change graphic elements that actually make it worse. The garish pink and white coloring, the change to out white text on a white background on pop-ups... On the other hand it is inclusive to have people with zero design skill making design decisions. :^)

I have no idea what the Collections and Journal tab icons are even meant to represent.  I square blob with a couple of + signs on it, and what looks like a distorted jigsaw piece with a gear wheel over laid on it.  Makes me wonder just how much they paid a graphics designer to come up with them. The artist's pallet and speaker at least make sense and are recognisable.

Thing is, these are solved problems, with solution echoes going back thirty to forty years (first GUI systems being on LISA and early Mac machines from 1984) and analog systems before that.  It seems simple to simplify and turn something into a graphic, until you have to make sure everyone else understands it too. And then you have to look at reverse contrast, issues with transposition, different resolutions...  So, I mean - were these complaints from people prior to this, that the symbols were not comprehensible, or were these just... boredom from staring at them too long?  Edited to add: To be sure, the people to look to for graphic simplification are ASCII and pixel art folks. They're used to fooling the eye into seeing something, and could have identified early the problem with the plus-signs-and-blob not looking like the "book" it was supposed to represent.  Edited a second time to add:  This particular change isn't so much "who moved my cheese" rather "what improvements were gained?" You can do A-B testing on something like this to objectively measure success ratios, and I think you'd find that: Nobody will correctly identify the puzzle-piece-and-gear as being "yeah, that's for rollable tables, and small trigger-able macros." The jukebox is way too busy, and likely people would think that was a master audio tab, for volume of chat or chat settings, not a music list or music tab with sound file controls and import.  People would struggle to discern what the blob-with-plusses is. "Mapmaking?" "Adding things?" "Starfield, so, like, the map layer maybe?"  People may think the palette-and-brush is for the drawing tools, not for a library of static images. You are depicting tools, not, say, a framed finished image, which more accurately would reflect what is under that tab.  Only the speech and gear, which changed the least, retain any recognizability. Word balloons are recognized as speech or, these, days, texting - and the squared off ones honestly more accurately reflect this. The gear changed slightly, but, predictably is for settings, still. It's a grab-bag of miscellany, which is what people expect.   I wanted to provide a more directed criticism than what sounds like I'm upset that things changed. Things change, but usually they do so in response to some force that directs them to, and in a direction that the force would indicate. I'm not sure what force blew them this direction, but it doesn't appear to be in the direction of usability or recognition. 

I agree the new icons are worse than the old ones. I gm two ‘new user’ sessions per month and have struggled explaining what the icons are for for years. And now i cannot even describe some them.  Let’s crowd propose some good icons.

10 Votes in about 20 hours... Hope this goes on and that Roll20 changes them back...

Oh, that is a BOOK symbol? Hahahaha. thank you so much for defining that Pat. I thought it was a video-game controller, like a Playstation controller.  Pat said:  the problem with the plus-signs-and-blob not looking like the "book" it was supposed to represent. 

I will have to get used it them, another thing to worry about while in the middle a game. It seems that there are many other issues with the software that really should have greater developer priority.

See, this is what I mean - simple A-B testing with a group of five people is enough to establish success ratios for interfaces and application flows. I'm sure there are more than five people who would be willing to test on here, and there are even sites where you can anonymize the interface and have it tested by "impartial" folks if you don't trust users here.  I understand the impetus can sometimes be a reaction of "well, they won't like any change" - but I'd point you to map/page folders to differ - people liked it and still gave feedback and it keeps improving. I'm hoping this would be the same, though an unannounced change   (and @Gold, I think it's from having kids who make drawings that I have to decipher on the regular...)  Gold said: Oh, that is a BOOK symbol? Hahahaha. thank you so much for defining that Pat. I thought it was a video-game controller, like a Playstation controller.  Pat said:  the problem with the plus-signs-and-blob not looking like the "book" it was supposed to represent. 

It's even simpler than A-B testing. Just ask any GM to explain what's in the sidebar as if describing the interface to a party of new users. Roll20 has a sidebar on the right side. You can make it small by pressing the arrows to the right and large again by pressing the arrows to the left (pre-empting future change to make the right sidebar the same as the left toolbar). At the top there are 7 tabs with which you can select what is shown. From left to right: clicking - the chatbubbles will show the chat, with what is typed, rolls that are made and info that is shared like spell descriptions. Please change the drop down button before the send button to the name of your character as that save the GM to lookup you character name. Thank you! - the ??? painting tools ??? will show your art library with images you uploaded or bought (the photo album logo was ok here btw) - the ??? game controller ??? will show information about the adventure the GM allows you to access: your character and handouts with descriptions or images. - the ??? open book or so ??? will show the compendium search where you can search and lookup reference information like spells or magic items. - the ??? speed camera  ??? will show the compendium search where you can search and lookup reference information like spells or magic items. - the ??? puzzle pieces with the thingy  ??? is not for players and can be ignored ( why can a player see this tab?) - the gear gives access to settings, the most important for you to change now can be found by pressing on "Audio & Video" then selct the tab "Video Display" and change the "Player video/avatar size" to Names only so you can see the map on your laptop. Sorry to sound pedantic, but i do this demo almost every other week for people of ages 16-60 and all walks of life.

The ??? puzzle pieces with the thingy should be the Collections Tab where Macros and so on are displayed / shared! Players had access to it the whole time, but now it is just another Icon that makes no sense in the context... And even though this thread gains votes really fast, I don't think Roll20 will change it back in the near future... (It is highly unlikely for Roll20 to undo a change they made and just recently). I have to say I liked the OLD Icons much better as the "new" Icons that are there now... But as said, we have to live with it... In Lightmode you don't even see, which Icon is selected at the time... because unlike with dark mode there is no highlighting at all! (I opened a ticket about that) Martijn S. said: It's even simpler than A-B testing. Just ask any GM to explain what's in the sidebar as if describing the interface to a party of new users. Roll20 has a sidebar on the right side. You can make it small by pressing the arrows to the right and large again by pressing the arrows to the left (pre-empting future change to make the right sidebar the same as the left toolbar). At the top there are 7 tabs with which you can select what is shown. From left to right: clicking - the chatbubbles will show the chat, with what is typed, rolls that are made and info that is shared like spell descriptions. Please change the drop down button before the send button to the name of your character as that save the GM to lookup you character name. Thank you! - the ??? painting tools ??? will show your art library with images you uploaded or bought (the photo album logo was ok here btw) - the ??? game controller ??? will show information about the adventure the GM allows you to access: your character and handouts with descriptions or images. - the ??? open book or so ??? will show the compendium search where you can search and lookup reference information like spells or magic items. - the ??? speed camera  ??? will show the compendium search where you can search and lookup reference information like spells or magic items. - the ??? puzzle pieces with the thingy  ??? is not for players and can be ignored ( why can a player see this tab?) - the gear gives access to settings, the most important for you to change now can be found by pressing on "Audio & Video" then selct the tab "Video Display" and change the "Player video/avatar size" to Names only so you can see the map on your laptop. Sorry to sound pedantic, but i do this demo almost every other week for people of ages 16-60 and all walks of life.

I'd like to see a Roll20 Team reply to this, or even announce the new icons, just tell us why or what was the purpose, intention behind this change of icons? That could help me to understand. Roll20 Team could address these new icons either here (Suggestion reply), or a Forum post, or a Roll20 blog. 

They COULD have, yet they chose not to... They made an Entry for it in the Changelog, but that's just it! It seems they only inform about the big changes and those "little" changes are just released. And then they wait - or... ignore it... At least this thread has 10+ Votes so it stays open and regarding the contrast issue in Lightmode I mentioned this thread in the ticket... But I have little hope that they will change the Icons back... EDIT: as said, it takes some time to get used to... played yesterday and miss-clicked several times. HATE these new Icons... Gold said: I'd like to see a Roll20 Team reply to this, or even announce the new icons, just tell us why or what was the purpose, intention behind this change of icons? That could help me to understand. Roll20 Team could address these new icons either here (Suggestion reply), or a Forum post, or a Roll20 blog.

Martijn S. said: It's even simpler than A-B testing. Just ask any GM to explain what's in the sidebar as if describing the interface to a party of new users. Sorry, I have done usability testing for a living, I was referring to metrics used in interface design - most problems can be ferreted out by a relatively small set of users, 5-6 is the threshold, basic user testing would have done this before making this change. 

You could do A/B Testing with 2 separate environments... but since the DEV Server does not exist any longer or rather is not available any longer... I really hope that they either change it back OR give us the OPTION to choose which symbols / icons we want to use... Pat said: Martijn S. said: It's even simpler than A-B testing. Just ask any GM to explain what's in the sidebar as if describing the interface to a party of new users. Sorry, I have done usability testing for a living, I was referring to metrics used in interface design - most problems can be ferreted out by a relatively small set of users, 5-6 is the threshold, basic user testing would have done this before making this change. 

Thanks for the update. Will you fix the contrast in Lightmode as well? In Darkmode the Icon that is active is highlighted and has purple background. In Lightmode, this is not the case! And there are other issues like that that came with the Lightmode change. Riley D. said: Thanks for the feedback on this, it's much appreciated -- after all, these icons have been around for a very long time. We've heard you and we're going to make some changes soon. In particular, we're planning to change the Compendium and Collection icons. This would be the new set: The Compendium icon was not only a bit hard to discern but also too similar to the book next to it. Instead, we've opted for a library/bookshelf look and feel to create the connection between the Compendium in the VTT and your in-person books and book shelves. As for the Collections icon, we've gone for a more literal approach and added representations of the functionality -- like # and @ used in macros -- to the icon itself. Grouped together, we think it gives a 'collection' feel. Thanks again for your feedback and for helping us get this right, we want these icons to stand the test of time in the long-term.

Still going to push back against the brush-and-palette, the speaker-soundwaves, and the blobby-star-book.  I'd expect drawing tools under the brush-and-palette. There are none. It's a box, repository, or gallery - none of which are what is conveyed by a painter's brush and palette. If anything, the fact that my purchased assets are there is specifically anti-art-tooling. I can't change those at all without downloading them and re-uploading them. Any transformation is outside the palette tool icon, so it's still not a transformative, it's a repository.  The speaker-soundwaves is supposed to be another library and some controls, that's not what a speaker (?) is, that's what a speaker plays. General audio control is on another tab, not here, but implication is "All sound is here, you know, like chat."  The blobby star book, what was the compendium? The journal/library? What used to be the information icon... having it as a magic book looking icon doesn't come across, it's too low detail, and many systems that are played are modern, specifically we are in an online system that does not support skeuomorphic experiences (nothing about the compendium directly matches the physical books: they are not start-to-finish PDFs and can't even be read that way - ask me how I know).  These might seem trivial, but they're cognitive barriers to new and old users alike, and will likely result in more questions than lift.  Riley D. said: Thanks for the feedback on this, it's much appreciated -- after all, these icons have been around for a very long time. We've heard you and we're going to make some changes soon. In particular, we're planning to change the Compendium and Collection icons. This would be the new set: The Compendium icon was not only a bit hard to discern but also too similar to the book next to it. Instead, we've opted for a library/bookshelf look and feel to create the connection between the Compendium in the VTT and your in-person books and book shelves. As for the Collections icon, we've gone for a more literal approach and added representations of the functionality -- like # and @ used in macros -- to the icon itself. Grouped together, we think it gives a 'collection' feel. Thanks again for your feedback and for helping us get this right, we want these icons to stand the test of time in the long-term.

Thanks for the update Riley. For what it's worth... I think the "brush-and-palette" is probably universally associated with art and drawing tools.  Something depicting that it's the location for images\artwork might be a better fit.

Thanks Riley. I'm still not sold on the artist tools icon... but meh. Maybe it's just my setup, but in FF/win(zoom 100%/text-only) no stylus; Adjusting the chat panel to it's min-width causes the menu icons to wrap. Which in-turn causes a weird whack-a-mole thing with the Settings Gear when hovering over the Collections icon. This doesn't happen in Chrome @100%.