Character Sheet D&D 5e 2014 vs D&D 5e 2024

I'm a pro user and I play D&D 5e on Roll20 once or twice a week as both DM and player.  A couple months ago my years-long campaign wrapped up and I decided that the new campaign would use the 2024 ruleset.  I've spent hours upon hours using the new character sheet and compendium and I'm struggling.  Performance/responsiveness of the 2024 compendium is significantly worse than 2014.  The UI of the new sheet is more complicated visually while managing to display less information.  Obviously I'm struggling on the leading edge of the learning curve, but my experience thus far has been so disappointing I don't think there's some pending epiphany that will change my opinion.  For years, I've used R20 to simplify my job as DM and the R20 VTT allowed me the flexibility to respond to the antics of my players mid-session. As a player in a 2024 game, I have reverted to using the 2014 sheet and hand-modifying 2014 compendium drops.  I'm willing to do that work as a player, but it's not a feasible solution as DM to a group of 5 players.  In my 2024 game, a few of my players have all but abandoned the R20 system and are using a combination of paper, Beyond and rolling dice on camera. There's no way to say this without sounding like a sarcastic conspiracy theorist, but it seems the only reason for the R20 2024 sheet's existence is to make the Beyond interface look good. If my players can't use the R20 system, then it's only a matter of time until my campaign moves elsewhere.  As a profoundly lazy person, I'd rather R20 improved. One simple change would eliminate the majority of my complaints: allow 2024 compendium drops onto the 2014 sheet.  If my players can drop new spells onto their character sheets, I'm willing to modify everything else by hand.  I've got a lot of time and effort sunk into R20 and I've gladly paid for my Pro subscription, but the 2024 system is a significant dropoff in value.

Hi Chris,  Yup, I agree that it is a pain to use 2024 on the 2014 sheets. The biggest pain being the spells.  To that end I am working on a sheet to sheet ChatSetAttr based macro to transfer spells from "storage" sheets to the player's sheet.  When it is finished I can give it to you if you'd like, but you'd have to make your own storage sheets. 

Hi Chris! Since you are a Pro user, you can also look at this script I've written . It watches for spells cast from a 2014 sheet, and posts a button that opens the Compendium entry for the 2024 version.

Keith, your work is incredible and I've stolen so much of what you've written or recommended in the Giant Thread of Macros (or whatever).   Has there been an official statement from R20 on the 2024 sheet and why R20 is forcing us into something that sucks?  

My understanding is that most of the 2024 compendium back end is constructed differently than the 2014 compendium back end.  As a result the 2014 sheet would not be able to make heads or tails of the 2024 compendium.  Why was it done like that? Forward progress probably. They probably needed to do a more responsive compendium setup for the Beacon architecture (me guessing, but it seems reasonable). Why not fix the 2014 sheet to handle the new compendium data? Because it is ancient, with many hands in it, many patches, the code is very...touchy. It would probably require an entire rebuild to handle the 2024 compendium content.  Of course, there is another option...duplicate the 2024 compendium into 2014 standards. But that would require doubling effort in perpetuity for 2024 content to 2014 standards.  Personally, I wish they had done a non-Beacon style new sheet, but this is where we are at now. I can make the 2014 sheet work with the 2024 content with some effort, becoming less effort as I go. Until such a time where the 2024 sheet can do what I need it to do. 

Chris said: Keith, your work is incredible and I've stolen so much of what you've written or recommended in the Giant Thread of Macros (or whatever).   Has there been an official statement from R20 on the 2024 sheet and why R20 is forcing us into something that sucks?   Hey Chris! I am a perpetual glass is half-full kind of guy, and I cannot speak for Roll20, but here's my 2 cents. The 2024 sheet represents a departure from a group of technologies that for whatever reason, Roll20 decided was going to be difficult to maintain going forward. For a more overt example of this phenomenon, compare the laundry list of new features made possible by the new VTT (was "Jumpgate"), that were deemed to be difficult to impossible on legacy. I really, really would not be happy to go back. I'm not enough of a programmer to be able to comment authoritatively on what Beacon allows, but the new sheet really does have some significant plusses and minuses. The biggest minuses are loss of the open architecture of the old sheets that allowed amazing API and macro interaction that in many cases worked for the entire library of sheets. The other big minus was some design choices early on that made editing and using the sheet cumbersome. Both of these have been significantly improved in the last year or so, but the fact that it took that long was frustrating. The biggest plusses are that it is a fresh start. The old sheet was extremely difficult to work with behind the scenes. It represented code that went back to the earliest versions of Roll20, and that had passed through dozens of hands, and many VTT development cycles. It was nightmarishly difficult to add even simple improvements. The rate of improvement I bemoaned in the previous paragraph was flat out inconceivable with the old sheet. Clearing the decks can lead to fresh innovation. The Character Builder is leaps and bounds more powerful than CHaractermancer, for example. The number of interactions possible between inventory, attacks, class abilities, fighting styles, etc, is simply phenomenal. A  new sheet was inevitable at some point, and the version update imposed by WotC was the only logical place to put it, despite (IMO) the technology not quite yet being ready for prime time. It would have been far worse to wait, or to not do it at all and continue to support a bloated, outdated sheet. The absolute best thing they did was to allow the sheets to coexist in one game. This saved my campaign, and has given me the breathing room to adapt as I go, and as things become possible. I run a hybrid campaign now. PCs, and most new material uses the 2024 sheet, while most of my workhorse material and automation are still 2014. In my gaming groups (four other gms), most use the 2014 sheet and rules (they still work great), while I am the sole adopter of 2024. These are both valid choices, and I enjoy all of these games without feeling forced to use anything I don't want to use. Anyway, that's my take, and is mine alone. It doesn't represent and wasn't influenced by Roll20 in any way.

Thanks for your perspective Keith.  I'm not making any hasty decisions, but I am very disillusioned with the current situation.

You are not alone in this, and it is a familiar complaint in my communities. Please get your whole group to support my suggestion for a classic layout for the 2024 rules! <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/12391785/classic-look-slash-layout-for-the-d-and-d-2024-character-sheet" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/12391785/classic-look-slash-layout-for-the-d-and-d-2024-character-sheet</a> That the 2024 rules does not work with the current 2014 sheet does NOT mean they can not create a character sheet looking like the paper version the physical games go with, and that is included with the book.

Done.&nbsp; Have you gotten any official response?&nbsp; What's involved in making a sheet?&nbsp; Could it be community-created or would copyright and trademark poop on that?

I Googled:&nbsp; how many hours does it take to design and code a character sheet for roll20 similar to the D&amp;D 5e for Roll20 2014 sheet The answer is ... daunting. Chris said: What's involved in making a sheet?&nbsp; Could it be community-created or would copyright and trademark poop on that?

Chris said: Done.&nbsp; Have you gotten any official response?&nbsp; What's involved in making a sheet?&nbsp; Could it be community-created or would copyright and trademark poop on that? There are over a dozen community created D&amp;D 5e sheets already. But none for 2024 specifically. I once asked a character sheet coder for a ballpark price tag to make a 2014-esque sheet that would handle the 2024 compendium. The answer was $5k for the sheet, another $5k for a charactermancer.&nbsp; So yes, someone can make a 2024 community sheet, but the hours required and the costs involved are prohibitive.&nbsp; In the meantime, I suggest checking out Scott C.'s character sheet Architect project here:&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/12665384/tool-alpha-sheet-architect-a-visual-drag-and-drop-builder-for-roll20-character-sheets/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/12665384/tool-alpha-sheet-architect-a-visual-drag-and-drop-builder-for-roll20-character-sheets/</a> It is only in Alpha but it should eventually solve the need.&nbsp;