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Please tell me we are in some sort of half released state

I root for you guys but I feel it's time for some honest feedback. This has to be one of the worst 'upgrades' I've ever seen. 1. Why in the world would you hide the LFG under games. I don't care if it makes "logical" sense. Your LFG was your strongest suite I can't believe you would make that harder to find. 2. Graphically this site literally looks like its half loaded in my chrome browser so I am serious when I say I hope this is some sort of intermediate state of release. 3. I was just over at fantasy grounds and thinking they may have more integration with dnd 5e but you guys have a much more polished look and feel. Now you guys look almost exactly like they do. If this turns out to be the actual release I will be cancelling my mentor status.
Ya i'm not happy with the new look either! It looks very unprofesional.
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Lithl
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
While this is  a sort of "half-released" state (from Twitter: "We're back online, but construction is still underway!"), this look & feel is pretty much what we're getting. There might be small tweaks in the near future, but the site design is going to remain roughly what it is right now.
1. The LFG tool is now better integrated with the site. Several different areas now feed into it, meaning it no longer needed to be stand-alone in the toolbar. 2. The site is intentionally "cleaner" in design. 3. The virtual tabletop itself hasn't changed-- the site simply looks more like the tabletop. We'll be sorry to see anyone go over this redesign, particularly a Pro user, but we believed strongly that it was time to shed our three year old site look (and more importantly, site map). We hired consultants and had an extended feedback period for Pro accounts. We'll continue to refine the design, but are overall quite proud of what we're launching today.
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Finderski
Pro
Sheet Author
Compendium Curator
Overall, I'm fine with the new design. It doesn't "WOW" me, but that's kinda hard to do anyway. A couple of questions: Is there a reason the Post Reply button is only at the top of the forum, or am I doing something wrong? When I click the Post Reply button, it doesn't take me to the actual form...I still have to scroll down to see it. Is this a problem with Safari, or is anyone else having this issue? Will we be able to log into the wiki?
It doesn't auto scroll down, it just adds the 'post reply' section at the bottom. An auto-scroll (and now that we have pages, pagination) feature would aid for long topics.
G V. said: Is there a reason the Post Reply button is only at the top of the forum, or am I doing something wrong? When I click the Post Reply button, it doesn't take me to the actual form...I still have to scroll down to see it. Is this a problem with Safari, or is anyone else having this issue? Can confirm these two. Driving me a little nuts. I liked when the form was just always at the bottom.
We're working on the forum reply issue among other things currently. Our first priority with bring the site back up was payment-related areas (people checking their subscription level, looking at their Marketplace purchases, etc). Next we're moving towards I think Private Messages, and then some forums stuff.  It's gonna be a busy day... :) Happens when you remake the whole website...
I must chime in here on this one. The site design is just aweful and hurt my eyes to look at (I mean the white glare is just so strong). I cannot say I like it, I know you wanted a cleaner look. Its a bit too clean though? A wallpaper would not hurt at all here. EDIT: Though having pages in your forums setups instead of one huge threat was nice.
Yes please please let us add some sort of background, it's kind of painful for me, too. Generally I like the look better though.
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DK Heinrich
Marketplace Creator
Sheet Author
odd, I like the white background and the clean look - really sick of pages that are loaded down with crap you dont need or that just distract from what you are there to do.  I say good job on the layout!
I gotta admit I'm not happy with it. Here's a few things: 1) Everything is too large. I think the size of the previous version was good, now the font size seems like it's double. Pictures are huge, the game overview, the games itself. When I enter a game half my screen is the picture. The buttons are gigantic. Because of the giant font, the thread titles on the forum are actually way harder to read (because I don't see them in their entirety anymore, I have to move my eye from left to right to scan the entire title) It feels like you wanted to optimize it for Tablet use or something, because tiny links are a pain there. But on an actual PC it just seems wrong and far too huge. 2) Pink. It feels way too pink. That's maybe just a personal opinion, but there you have it. 3) As much as the game page looks overloaded, the Forums look too empty now. Too much white spaces in between.  Sure I can zoom the page smaller in my browser, but that's hardly a solution. I really hope you're considering adding two or three themes people can choose from.
Sean L. said: Your LFG was your strongest suite I can't believe you would make that harder to find. ++; There aren't enough likes for this. Integrated or not, making one of the most commonly used buttons/features harder to find can't be a good move, usability wise. The site may be "cleaner" but it reminds me of sites where the CSS doesn't load. Also, it seems that everything is larger, and takes up more space. Might be great for mobile, but not so great on desktop. Actually, on mobile I can't even sign in, because tapping the text box collapses the sign-in dropdown. I love the fact that there is only one top nav. I hope the reply issue is fixed, and the text box at the bottom is brought back. Good to hear it is being worked on.
I agree this new look is UGLY
Nolan T. J. said: We're working on the forum reply issue among other things currently. By this, I hope you mean a reply button on the bottom of the page as well, not just making the one at the top autoscroll. Also, clicking 'quote' doesn't do anything until you click 'post reply' first.
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Kryx
Pro
Sheet Author
API Scripter
The font sizes are really too large for a desktop. I have to zoom out to 75% or 90% to feel comfortable. Decreasing them on desktop would significantly help desktop users imo.
dfn said: There aren't enough likes for this. Integrated or not, making one of the most commonly used buttons/features harder to find can't be a good move, usability wise. Both LFG and our Subscriptions Page got a much deeper integration here-- multiple areas of the site push you towards those pages, particularly early on in your Roll20 experience. We think this is the best way to go. Truth be told, though, it's an experiment until we have data. If suddenly nobody is using LFG and nobody is subscribing, rest assured we'll play with the design to make things as functional as possible. My prediction is a lot of dislike is coming from difference, but if I'm wrong the data will show it and we'll respond.
I definitely feel I have to chime in with the absurdity of the scale on the site. I mean, first off,  look at my home page . Before, I could see pretty much all of my games as soon as I came to the site. Now, I'm just barely able to see the images for the campaigns. That's it. I could understand this kind of silliness on a lower resolution monitor, but this is 1080. The 'welcome back' message is nice, but it really shouldn't take up over 10% of my screen space. That's not even a hyperbole, I literally did the math and it came out to about 11.8% of the total screen. As others have said, I understand that I have the option to zoom out via my browser. But I really shouldn't have to do that, guys. This is a problem that I'm ashamed to see made its way past any testing at all.
There is only one thing for now that's really interesting me - when somebody posted in threads that interested you (basically in LFG where thread was auto followed I guess) then in top right corner-ish was a pink indication and a number of unread messages... Is it still on or is it in the process of being brough back after update? 
Nolan T. J. said: Both LFG and our Subscriptions Page got a much deeper integration here-- multiple areas of the site push you towards those pages, particularly early on in your Roll20 experience. We think this is the best way to go. I am probably missing something. Are you saying there are multiple "links" to the "Find a Group" section? I currently see only one (click dropdown next to Games at top, click Find a Group). I didn't see anything upon logging in that was direct, but maybe that's because I'm already in a bunch of games.
So... What was the impetus for this change? Everything's absurdly large and clunky, the color palette is terrible and the design scheme is both childish and unintuitive. Why is it so hard to actually get into LFG now? The site looks okay on a smartphone, but did you guys really make these changes for that demographic? Nolan, this isn't an issue of "wah change" it's the fact everything that made the site quick and easy has been altered for the worse. It's a pain to join campaigns, it's a pain to find campaigns, and it's a pain to even look at the site.
Overall i feel like this change has made the site look more like a google site... and not in a good way... It seems like everything is more spaced out and at the same time larger which ends up with a LOT of wasted white space, now I realize you were going for a cleaner look, but it also seems to just take up more space than is necessary.  I used to be able to see 5 or 6 games at a time as I scrolled through the "My Games" section, but now can barely fit 4.   In contrast the "Home" page seems less clean... partly because of the size 50 font "Welcome back adventurer..." which means that if you want to see anything useful you have to open a dropdown menu or scroll down... again it seems like a waste of space.  It's too bad I will probably avoid the home page as i will be going to the games page which is basically what the home page used to be... especially since the roll20 tweets are only shown on the home page.  I guess my biggest question is why this was modified so heavily when the previous home page seemed to make a much more efficient use of space.  The old one showed a bunch of games (8?) but now only shows 4... and for me currently they are only games that I have created, not the most recently played games...  Also cleaner doesn't have to mean you remove all of the color from the website.  There used to be a lot of pink and blue.  Now it seems mostly pink, white, and black, with a few words written in blue here and there.   (most of the site seems black and white now with a few colored buttons or links) As for the lack of a front page LFG button... didn't you guys recently (a few months ago) add a button for that directly to the main page right next to "Create a Game" and "View All Games"?.... (although there is a nice big space for it right next to those buttons on the home page which seems perfectly sized for it) I hope i didn't come off as too whiny... i was trying to be somewhat constructive, but it is hard to convey that via text, especially when some of the other posts are not, but also because I care about this website as it allows me to do things i could not have done otherwise.  Like you said it is probably best to see what happens after making this change as most people dislike change.  I'm sure that if nothing else changes we will just get used to it, much as everyone does every time google decides youtube needs more white space.
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Nolan T. J. said: 1. The LFG tool is now better integrated with the site. Several different areas now feed into it, meaning it no longer needed to be stand-alone in the toolbar. 2. The site is intentionally "cleaner" in design. 3. The virtual tabletop itself hasn't changed-- the site simply looks more like the tabletop. We'll be sorry to see anyone go over this redesign, particularly a Pro user, but we believed strongly that it was time to shed our three year old site look (and more importantly, site map). We hired consultants and had an extended feedback period for Pro accounts. We'll continue to refine the design, but are overall quite proud of what we're launching today. 1. Your LFG tool is like your biggest selling feature of the site. Hiding it (and yes, it is hidden in a menu instead of being front and center like it should be) is just silly. It's like a store that hides its product gallery in a sub-menu and tells its buyers it doesn't need its own menu option because it's "integrated into the site better". I promise you, this is not better integrated.  2. The site is also not cleaner. The GRANDPA SIZED FONTS are so large they are uncomfortable to read and make the whole thing look imbalanced from a design perspective. There is literally no reason ever that four words should take up a quarter of my browser window and three lines of text. To top it off, they overlap the From the Dev Team feed when you shrink your browser down. And it's not just the front page welcome text that's too big, the menu fonts are too big too. It just looks cluttered. More white with bold lines does not instantly make your site look "cleaner", there is more to balance than just that. 3. I guess in a loose sense it does?  Your consultants were not stellar and had no eye for accessibility or design. Get your money back. Nolan T. J. said: Both LFG and our Subscriptions Page got a much deeper integration here-- multiple areas of the site push you towards those pages, particularly early on in your Roll20 experience. We think this is the best way to go. Truth be told, though, it's an experiment until we have data. If suddenly nobody is using LFG and nobody is subscribing, rest assured we'll play with the design to make things as functional as possible. My prediction is a lot of dislike is coming from difference, but if I'm wrong the data will show it and we'll respond. Again, moving a menu option to a less immediately accessible place for a main feature is not "integrating" anything. And collecting data on this is a silly thing to say at all. Your members are going to be FORCED to go the long ways around to access it, but the number of people who go to the LFG page wont dip because it's a primary function of the site. It's not intuitive and it is certainly not "integrated" (you throw this word around a lot when people are complaining about accessibility of basic site functions). The hate isn't coming from change itself, its coming because we the users think the change was dumb and we'll still think its dumb when you refuse to change it and we all fall into quiet discontent with it. Saying the word integrated a lot doesn't mean that you've successfully made a more intuitive site.   (from the Oatmeal's comic " How a Web Design Goes Straight to Hell ")
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Another way of saying "cleaner look" is "corporate look". Which is what this is...its google wannabe corporate. You guys should have considered your demographic when making this change. Many of us like retro, unique design over 'clean'...I've been working in software development and design for many years and can assure you this is not about not liking change. You should check yourself a little better when dealing with the public because that came across as a WEE bit condescending.
Ben M. said:  I'm sure that if nothing else changes we will just get used to it, much as everyone does every time google decides youtube needs more white space. And when we hit that rut of quiet discontent with the new site design, they will pat themselves on the back and say they were right. Sean L. said: Another way of "cleaner look" is a corporate look. Which is what this is...its google wannabe corporate. You guys should have considered your demographic when making this change. Many of us like retro, unique design over 'clean'...I've been working in software development and design for many years and can assure you this is not about not liking change. You should check yourself a little better when dealing with the public because that came across as a WEE bit condescending. I agree, especially with the last part. It was my tipping point from being merely disappointed to being disappointed in a sassy and irritable way. It's like they are saying that we don't know what we are talking about and our feedback isn't valued, and that they know best so we should just hush.
Ali said: Ben M. said:  I'm sure that if nothing else changes we will just get used to it, much as everyone does every time google decides youtube needs more white space. And when we hit that rut of quiet discontent with the new site design, they will pat themselves on the back and say they were right. Really then, what's the point in complaining about this? I doubt the Devs will listen, and even if they do it won't be a roll-back to the previous site design, just a tweak here and there to make the site semi-usable, and then when the months pass and people just give up complaining the design change will be considered a "shaky but necessary success." I still just want to know what spurred this change.
dfn said: Nolan T. J. said: Both LFG and our Subscriptions Page got a much deeper integration here-- multiple areas of the site push you towards those pages, particularly early on in your Roll20 experience. We think this is the best way to go. I am probably missing something. Are you saying there are multiple "links" to the "Find a Group" section? I currently see only one (click dropdown next to Games at top, click Find a Group). I didn't see anything upon logging in that was direct, but maybe that's because I'm already in a bunch of games. When you first log in, if you click on [My Games], you'll find a button on the far right that says "Find A Group." Unfortunately, it is a tiny rectangular button with small font (relatively speaking, as compared to the giant welcome back text).  When the Roll20 devs meant deeper integration, they apparently did  mean "deeper integration" - if you mean deeper within the myriad number of menus, hidden away where it's harder to find.  Why the "Find A Group" button is not a nice big button like the "start a game" one right above it is beyond me. 
Don't worry, the Devs are listening to this. Ali just received a ban from posting on Roll20, so clearly SOMEONE is listening.
Canuhearmenow said: Really then, what's the point in complaining about this? I doubt the Devs will listen, and even if they do it won't be a roll-back to the previous site design, just a tweak here and there to make the site semi-usable, and then when the months pass and people just give up complaining the design change will be considered a "shaky but necessary success." I still just want to know what spurred this change. After the fires get put out (things that are just plain broken), we'll end up doing polishes. TODAY, RIGHT THE HECK NOW complaining doesn't do much, no, but we're interested in what reactions are like after people have lived in it for awhile. And, as earlier mentioned, we'll be monitoring usage stats to get an idea of where there's movement difficulties and dropoff's. We knew there'd be problems-- there always are with an update, it's just how much we catch before go-live. As for what spurred the change, a large part of it was aging problems. Three and a half years of this community growing has resulted in a really odd sitemap, inconsistent design, and such because we've built and built and built on top of ourselves. We needed a clean up and decided to take of the band-aid.
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People are just so resistent to change. Just give it some time, people. Offer suggestions and such, not constant complaints without anything constructive behind them. The devs here are on our side... give them a chance to get everyone past the growing pains of a change that was past due (3 years, really? wow!). :)
My god the background shining to blinding levels and grandpa sized fonts are literally making me nauseous right now, please please please change/fix this.
The website looks great on my Nexus 6, great work guys! :^)
Nyghtmare said: People are just so resistent to change. Just give it some time, people. Offer suggestions and such, not constant complaints without anything constructive behind them. People resist change they do not like.  If I was suddenly more handsome, I doubt my wife would complain about it.  As a SaaS developer myself with lots of end users, I care for the contents of the complaints, I don't get emotional about it.  Those complaints are worth their weight in gold.
One thing that I feel needs to change is I dont want to have to enter the thread first in order to go to the last page. Give us page links that allow the choice of going to the last page please.
Hooray for the Stylebot plugin =)
Benevolent Tyrant said:  Those complaints are worth their weight in gold. We're looking forward to working with feedback, it just isn't going to happen immediately. With all the restarting of the site today, we've got folks who can't get in games and the like, so that's the current developer priority.  Anyone who wastes time complaining at Gen Con, though... then we might physically do combat. :)
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Nolan T. J. said: Canuhearmenow said: Really then, what's the point in complaining about this? I doubt the Devs will listen, and even if they do it won't be a roll-back to the previous site design, just a tweak here and there to make the site semi-usable, and then when the months pass and people just give up complaining the design change will be considered a "shaky but necessary success." I still just want to know what spurred this change. After the fires get put out (things that are just plain broken), we'll end up doing polishes. TODAY, RIGHT THE HECK NOW complaining doesn't do much, no, but we're interested in what reactions are like after people have lived in it for awhile. And, as earlier mentioned, we'll be monitoring usage stats to get an idea of where there's movement difficulties and dropoff's. We knew there'd be problems-- there always are with an update, it's just how much we catch before go-live. So you're outright admitting you're going to force these design changes down our throats until we give up? Tyrant, it tells a lot about your design changes when you need to use plug-ins to make it usable, and all this talk about "integration" and pushing people towards the Subscriptions page really shows what you're aiming for with these updates, Nolan.
Benevolent Tyrant said: Hooray for the Stylebot plugin =) Teach me your sorcery, please, in the hope of salvaging something of my eyesight.
Obviously I can understand why you would take these complaints with a pinch of salt, often people have a negative gut reaction to change as it is in our nature to be unhappy when we have to relearn something. The question is this, when the dust settles is the site more user friendly and aesthetically pleasing. So far it is taking me longer to get around to the pages I want, The glaring white and huge sizes are painful too my eyes (literally). Yes you may have been going for a clean corporate look, but it feels bland and stale like the waiting room office for a corporation. When people log on to your site you want them to feel like they're stepping into a world of adventure, not an office simulator. Your website has no charm or appeal just blank safe white.
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Nolan T. J. said: Benevolent Tyrant said:  Those complaints are worth their weight in gold. We're looking forward to working with feedback, it just isn't going to happen immediately. With all the restarting of the site today, we've got folks who can't get in games and the like, so that's the current developer priority.  Anyone who wastes time complaining at Gen Con, though... then we might physically do combat. :) Why is that? Is that because when they're complaining to you about your tyrannical profit-hungry schemes in person you can't just ban or ignore them like you could on these forums, where you're the king of the playground?  Where you openly admit that you're stalling for time until people give up? You've certainly learned a lot from those consultants! :)
PeroPero said: Why is that? Is that because when they're complaining to you about your tyrannical profit-hungry schemes in person you can't just ban or ignore them like you could on these forums, where you're the king of the playground? :) More 'cause that's happy-fun-time / a place where taking feedback isn't particularly easy (try taking notes worth a damn when answering a deluge of questions on a panel in front of folks you're trying to entertain). And, yes... we like financial success. Not sure why this is an issue.
The site does look like its in early development. There needs to be more colour, even if its just borders. The plane white makes it look like the page hasnt fully loaded. Everything is also too big. I cant fit more than two of my games on the screen at a time.  The home page is dominated by the phrase 'Welcome back, brave adventurer.' How does this help me? How does this improve the site? reading through the comments, the general consensus seems to be: Make things a more reasonable size (smaller), add some colour and mare the LFG a one click HERE I AM!. Sod the consultants, listen to your consumers.
Toboe , thanks, got it. Also, I agree. The reply text box is back at least, yay!
Nolan T. J. said: PeroPero said: Why is that? Is that because when they're complaining to you about your tyrannical profit-hungry schemes in person you can't just ban or ignore them like you could on these forums, where you're the king of the playground? :) More 'cause that's happy-fun-time / a place where taking feedback isn't particularly easy (try taking notes worth a damn when answering a deluge of questions on a panel in front of folks you're trying to entertain). And, yes... we like financial success. Not sure why this is an issue. It's happy-fun-time when you're doing things the customers love, when you're making decisions based on "Consultant opinion" you should be well-prepared to get some flak for it. Feedback for something like this should be easy if the reasons to change the website were obvious and necessary. Dude, financial success is always something to strive for, but you know how you're supposed to aim for financial success? By being a company people love. Using "Consultant" advice to give your site a daring, soulless white corporate flare while hiding everything behind buttons after buttons does not sound like something people would love, and the fact you outright said "Both LFG and our Subscriptions Page got a much deeper integration here-- multiple areas of the site push you towards those pages, particularly early on in your Roll20 experience. We think this is the best way to go." You know how that reads to most people? It doesn't read like you're saying "we needed to fix this" it reads like you're trying to trick new users into buying subscriptions because you know this will increase your profits by 15% or something. It's honestly disgusting behavior and shows the changes weren't necessary for users, but necessary for better profit margins.
Quoth said: Sod the consultants, listen to your consumers. There has been and will continue to be open ears. We're also getting quite a lot of happy  users today as well, so we have to take time and figure out what's right and what needs adjusting. On a secondary note, I think "sod the consultants" is the first thing I've legitimately taken offense to today. We worked with a designer who's worked with us from the Kickstarter to create and unify our look. Someone who's played here and is well regarded in all sorts of geek design areas. This wasn't some disconnected ad agency job. While there's plenty that will be balanced in the coming days and weeks, this conjured negativity towards the effort won't fly.
Canuhearmenow said: It's happy-fun-time when you're doing things the customers love, when you're making decisions based on "Consultant opinion" you should be well-prepared to get some flak for it. Feedback for something like this should be easy if the reasons to change the website were obvious and necessary. Dude, financial success is always something to strive for, but you know how you're supposed to aim for financial success? By being a company people love. Using "Consultant" advice to give your site a daring, soulless white corporate flare while hiding everything behind buttons after buttons does not sound like something people would love, and the fact you outright said "Both LFG and our Subscriptions Page got a much deeper integration here-- multiple areas of the site push you towards those pages, particularly early on in your Roll20 experience. We think this is the best way to go." You know how that reads to most people? It doesn't read like you're saying "we needed to fix this" it reads like you're trying to trick new users into buying subscriptions because you know this will increase your profits by 15% or something. It's honestly disgusting behavior and shows the changes weren't necessary for users, but necessary for better profit margins. Re-read everything on "consultant" above. And as I stated earlier:  Three and a half years of this community growing has resulted in a really odd sitemap, inconsistent design, and such because we've built and built and built on top of ourselves. We needed a clean up and decided to take of the band-aid. That's why we did this. The only reason the Subscription page came up in this thread was it's similarity to the Looking for Group page in our philosophy-- "We'd like people to get here naturally, instead of via billboards," which is why we've put more links in more natural places to both pages. The sitemap, by the by, was done without the designing consultant. I think we'll be done for the day.