Quickling - 2nd Ed

Has anyone ever created a (N)PC version of the Quickling? How would you do stats etc? I have seen what they did in 3rd Ed but some of it does not make sense. Wondering if anyone ever setup the bonusses and penalties of creating a (N)PC Quickling with class levels, etc. I know it is not the norm to do somethign like this in AD&D 1st and 2nd. But mroe about discussing how you would do it. and yes this race would not in anyway fit the normal limits for playable races.

-6 STR +6 DEX +2 INT Size: Tiny Move: 96 (8x human) Attacks: +2 attacks per round due to speed AC: -6 Due to speed 100% invisible when not moving 90% invisible when moving 60' lowlight vision Once per day they may invoke the following powers: ventriloquism, forget, levitate, shatter, dig, fire charm Quicklings may never wear any form of cumbersome clothing/armor Saves: Best of Level 19 Priest & Character Class Languages: Brownie Additional Languages: Common, Pixie or Halfling Alignment: Chaotic (majority lean towards evil) Starting Age: 1 + (1d2-1) Middle Age: 6 (-1 Str -1Con +1 Int +1 Wis) Old Age: 8 (-2 Str -2 Dex -1 Con +1 Wis) Venerable: 12 (-1 Str -1 Dex -1 Con +1 Int +1 Wis) Max Age: 15 Quicklings are small and slender beings, looking much like miniature elves with very sharp, feral features. Their ears are unusually large and rise to points above their heads. Quickling eyes are cold and cruel with a tiny spark of yellow light. Their skin is a pale blue to blue-white and their hair is often silver or snowy white. Quicklings dress in fine clothes of bright colors. They are fond of silver and black, often selecting fabrics and metals in these colors. <a href="http://www.lomion.de/cmm/browquic.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.lomion.de/cmm/browquic.php</a>

AquaAlex said: -6 STR +6 DEX +2 INT Size: Tiny Move: 96 (8x human) Attacks: +2 attacks per round due to speed AC: -6 Due to speed 100% invisible when not moving 90% invisible when moving 60' lowlight vision Once per day they may invoke the following powers: ventriloquism, forget, levitate, shatter, dig, fire charm Quicklings may never wear any form of cumbersome clothing/armor Saves: Best of Level 19 Priest & Character Class Languages: Brownie Additional Languages: Common, Pixie or Halfling Alignment: Chaotic (majority lean towards evil) Starting Age: 1 + (1d2-1) Middle Age: 6 (-1 Str -1Con +1 Int +1 Wis) Old Age: 8 (-2 Str -2 Dex -1 Con +1 Wis) Venerable: 12 (-1 Str -1 Dex -1 Con +1 Int +1 Wis) Max Age: 15 Quicklings are small and slender beings, looking much like miniature elves with very sharp, feral features. Their ears are unusually large and rise to points above their heads. Quickling eyes are cold and cruel with a tiny spark of yellow light. Their skin is a pale blue to blue-white and their hair is often silver or snowy white. Quicklings dress in fine clothes of bright colors. They are fond of silver and black, often selecting fabrics and metals in these colors. <a href="http://www.lomion.de/cmm/browquic.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.lomion.de/cmm/browquic.php</a> I haven't seen an AD&D 2e race with ability score adjustments in excess of plus or minus two. &nbsp;And even then, the adjustments are usually numerically balanced. &nbsp;I would agree with -2 strength, -2 constitution, +2 dexterity, and +2 intelligence. &nbsp; I would also agree that the minimum racial dexterity score of a quickling should be about 13, due to the average quickling being so very.... quick. &nbsp;Perhaps quicklings could rise as high as level 15 in thief because of this.

I wouldn't want anybody to play that for the same reason I wouldn't want anybody to play a rust monster in a average party. It's a special monster mean to make the player think to find a way to beat it. The invis might be okay for an epic campaign but the speed will be an issue for most opponent. Road Runner and Speedy Gonzales are not typical build.

GAR said: I haven't seen an AD&D 2e race with ability score adjustments in excess of plus or minus two. &nbsp;And even then, the adjustments are usually numerically balanced. &nbsp;I would agree with -2 strength, -2 constitution, +2 dexterity, and +2 intelligence. &nbsp; I would also agree that the minimum racial dexterity score of a quickling should be about 13, due to the average quickling being so very.... quick. &nbsp;Perhaps quicklings could rise as high as level 15 in thief because of this. I agree is a lot, but too me a tiny creature like that would not be anywhere near a human strength so -2 seems a bit low, plus they must be super dexterous if they are able to maneuver at high speed around obstacles. That is only reason I would give them the +6. &nbsp;But maybe even a +4 would be acceptable. &nbsp;Yes I also think the 8x normal speed would be crazy. I basically used the -6 AC and +6 DEX bonus to try and get to the low AC they have, i think they basically -3AC with no Armour.

Eddyall said: I wouldn't want anybody to play that for the same reason I wouldn't want anybody to play a rust monster in a average party. It's a special monster mean to make the player think to find a way to beat it. The invis might be okay for an epic campaign but the speed will be an issue for most opponent. Road Runner and Speedy Gonzales are not typical build. hahaha true story but sometimes it is awesome to play a character like this. But I do think it needs some additional penalties, one of reasons I think something like a -6 STR is a good thing. The invisibility is less of an issues I think as it can be done with spells and magic items. But I would leave this definitely for High Level Campaigns

Flipping through Complete Humanoid those stats are pretty excessive.&nbsp; I agree that +1 or +2 is as high as it gets.&nbsp; Those abilities don't weigh well with the more powerful races, they are bit much when you compare to say Ogre Magi, Pixie, or Drow.&nbsp; The saves note is really over the top, level 19 priest?&nbsp;

Ben G said: The saves note is really over the top, level 19 priest?&nbsp; It is straight from the Monster Manual.

yes, but you can't have a "race" that gives 19th level abilities.&nbsp; There's no amount of XP penalty to even that out over time.&nbsp; The only races that really work in 2nd edition have to be nerfed heavily to be playable or start at a relatively equal power level.&nbsp;

Ben G said: yes, but you can't have a "race" that gives 19th level abilities.&nbsp; There's no amount of XP penalty to even that out over time.&nbsp; The only races that really work in 2nd edition have to be nerfed heavily to be playable or start at a relatively equal power level.&nbsp; lol I do see most people have an idea that races must balance, very AD&D :) &nbsp;am not trying to make a race that balanaces and that can be played as a PC. I am trying to figure out what a Quickling would look like if it was setup as a PC. So if you wanted to create a main antagonist NPC that is a quickling, someone the pc's would "RUN" into from time to time and that would increase in levels and skills just as they do. ANd doing it jus tby adding a few HD jsut is not fun.

Just run the "monster" as the same recurring monster. Especially in 2E, since the 1st and 2nd Ed. specifically addressed Monsters NOT being played as PC's. &nbsp;Monsters are supposed to be the opposition, the bad guys, the competition (which can work for the recurring thing) but never run by players (according to the ideology of these versions. &nbsp;That was one of the changes 3E and after made - good can be bad and bad can be good, blur the lines.... &nbsp;1 and 2E had pretty distinct lines of good guys vs. bad guys as far as players were concerned.

...As a matter of fact, they even mentioned (Gygax and Arneson...) that playing evil characters as players was discouraged.

AquaAlex said: GAR said: I haven't seen an AD&D 2e race with ability score adjustments in excess of plus or minus two. &nbsp;And even then, the adjustments are usually numerically balanced. &nbsp;I would agree with -2 strength, -2 constitution, +2 dexterity, and +2 intelligence. &nbsp; I would also agree that the minimum racial dexterity score of a quickling should be about 13, due to the average quickling being so very.... quick. &nbsp;Perhaps quicklings could rise as high as level 15 in thief because of this. I agree is a lot, but too me a tiny creature like that would not be anywhere near a human strength so -2 seems a bit low, plus they must be super dexterous if they are able to maneuver at high speed around obstacles. That is only reason I would give them the +6. &nbsp;But maybe even a +4 would be acceptable. &nbsp;Yes I also think the 8x normal speed would be crazy. I basically used the -6 AC and +6 DEX bonus to try and get to the low AC they have, i think they basically -3AC with no Armour. I think you might be forgetting about racial ability score minimum/maximum tables. Each race has one. I kind of touched on it before but here