[5e Shaped] v2.2.11 Class Features

I'll remove the misc input - it doesn't make sense to have it. Items are either Armor, Attacks, or Equipment. Any suggestions for a name for "secondary"? Saddlebags? Offloaded?

"Stored"?  "Not on person"?  "Not carried"?

I'd say carried/not carried

Now that the sheet is fairly complete I'm trying to set up a new game and I am experiencing a significant lag every time I open a character sheet (PC or NPC version). I'm using Chrome as my browser and I have installed v2.2.13 of the sheet and I'm on a fairly high speed broadband internet connection. So far MOST of my testing has been with NPCs or monsters dragged in from the Compendium. I'm not sure that is a factor since the lag is occurring as soon as I OPEN then character. Everything in Roll20 becomes "frozen" until the sheet fully loads. Once I'm in the sheet and adding info and such it seems to be ok until I close the sheet and try to open it (or any sheet) again. Sometimes the rolls are EXTREMELY delayed, and at other times they work fine. At one point 3D dice were turned on somehow and I didn't turn it on... that was weird, but easy to fix. I tried loading up Roll20's OGL 5E sheet and I do not experience the lag, but don't want to use the other sheets really (yours is too good man...). I tried going back to one of my older games that still has an older sheet from January or so (before the major overhaul) and it was being laggy too when it was not when I was playing that game a few months ago, so maybe Roll20 is just being slow today??? Am I missing something??? That's all the feedback I got right now...

We already have carried and not carried in the single checkbox. What was suggested and sounds like a good idea is to have a secondary set of carried/not carried that can be toggled off for items typically left on a horse or boat or other vehicle. @Wade: I can look into the lag, though issues like 3D dice sounds like a bigger issue. Keep in mind my sheet has significantly more features than the OGL sheet so the code size will be bigger (and inherently slower), but it shouldn't be a huge difference. EDIT: Opening an Ancient Black Dragon after a Drag & Drop import and refreshing seems to take: ~490ms for the Shaped Sheet ~240ms for the OGL Sheet The majority of this time is setting the values which means the shaped sheet has more. More fields provides more advanced features, but also more lag. If you compare the functionality of the two sheets for the Ancient Black Dragon for example you'll see that the OGL sheet is severely lacking in that it cannot handle anything beyond attacks for its actions. Also keep in mind that roll20 seems to get laggier the more characters you have and the older the campaign. Starting a fresh campaign has reduced lag for me. I will try to improve the speed in some areas, but sheet load time isn't one I can control besides removing fields.

"Stashed" maybe? (Maybe I just play too much Diablo :) )

Gediablo said: "Stashed" maybe? (Maybe I just play too much Diablo :) ) I like stashed. Stored would also work. 

Before I go and build this feature, would others find it worth the effort?

Kryx said: Before I go and build this feature, would others find it worth the effort? Me!

I do think that it is useful, though I am not certain that my players will use it frequently (at least in our current campaign).

I would like to see this. I know one or two in campaign that would use it, as would I. dividing between horse and backpack has been difficult.

My 2 cents on the carried /stashed debate: I don't care how my players track equipment.  If it isn't something that is a major mechic (combat stuff, skills, saves etc) I personally don't think you should waste time on it.  As for my lag issue,  it's not when the sheet is populating from drag/drop import,  it is after I've made a character and close the sheet and any time i re-open the character everything freezes for about 10-15+ seconds at least and then is slow.  Everything runs smoothly in edit mode and when I'm navigating in the sheet. Kevin hooked me up with his NPC stats script so that will help if i need to reference the info quickly.  EDIT: @Kryx I just reread your post and we're talking about the same thing.... thanks for looking into it.  I understand it is a much more complex sheet and that's why I love it.  Nothing here is a complaint.  Only feedback :)

Kryx said: Before I go and build this feature, would others find it worth the effort? I personally would in the game I'm in that's using your sheet. And I know my 6 players would as they typically have extra stuff they do not want to carry al the time. 

I've just started a game where my players are based out of a home base, and last night we were just discussing the best way to list items that were stored there and not carried around all the time. So we'd all love it.

Kryx said: Before I go and build this feature, would others find it worth the effort? Yes! I always have this problem both on paper and in a VTT - it's one of the reasons why this element of the game ends up being ignored until someone is walking around with half a ton of equipment in their backpack and then suddenly the GM cracks and goes "hang on a minute, that's just ridiculous". More than some RPGs, D&D is a lot about resource management. Whether it's spell slots/short/long rest powers, hit points or just the amount of stuff you can carry, you have to make tactical choices about when to spend and when to conserve for a possible future use. It's one of the things that has given the game its particular strategic character, but it can quickly degenerate into accountancy/rules nerdery. Done well, I think this is one of the areas where electronic character sheets can make a really big difference - they allow you to maintain the tactical choice element of the game without it swamping the RP with lots of tedious calculation.

Consider it on top of the TODO list then.

I know you've already decided to add it, but I just wanted to add in my 2c. I've got a character with 3 (!) bags of holding (Our rogue found one. He forgot about it, so he bought a new one. Then he forgot about those two, and bought another). Having a checkbox to indicate that it's in a bag of holding or similar thing would be super helpful, especially since they also have a maximum capacity.

alexander h. said: I know you've already decided to add it, but I just wanted to add in my 2c. I've got a character with 3 (!) bags of holding (Our rogue found one. He forgot about it, so he bought a new one. Then he forgot about those two, and bought another). Having a checkbox to indicate that it's in a bag of holding or similar thing would be super helpful, especially since they also have a maximum capacity. To add to that, if possible, away to have a bag of holding or similar in your inventory, and a way to track the total weight in it separate from your other weight calculations.  Seems like it is getting complicated, but would be such a nice feature to have, really work out the equipment issues.

Mark B. said: alexander h. said: I know you've already decided to add it, but I just wanted to add in my 2c. I've got a character with 3 (!) bags of holding (Our rogue found one. He forgot about it, so he bought a new one. Then he forgot about those two, and bought another). Having a checkbox to indicate that it's in a bag of holding or similar thing would be super helpful, especially since they also have a maximum capacity. To add to that, if possible, away to have a bag of holding or similar in your inventory, and a way to track the total weight in it separate from your other weight calculations.  Seems like it is getting complicated, but would be such a nice feature to have, really work out the equipment issues. I just create a new sheet just for inventory and weight calc purposes for bags of holding, etc. Give editing rights to applicable players. It doesn't complicate the character sheets. It would be nice to link [Bag of Holding] on the PC's equipment list to the sheet, "Bag of Holding" so you can click on the link and open the Bag of Holding sheet. However, the link does work in the Bio and Info section. Does that make sense? ;)

Mark B. said: alexander h. said: I know you've already decided to add it, but I just wanted to add in my 2c. I've got a character with 3 (!) bags of holding (Our rogue found one. He forgot about it, so he bought a new one. Then he forgot about those two, and bought another). Having a checkbox to indicate that it's in a bag of holding or similar thing would be super helpful, especially since they also have a maximum capacity. To add to that, if possible, away to have a bag of holding or similar in your inventory, and a way to track the total weight in it separate from your other weight calculations.  Seems like it is getting complicated, but would be such a nice feature to have, really work out the equipment issues. To be honest, the feature talked about here would be fine for that. Maybe have the field name be editable, if that's possible?

You can also use separate sheets for inventory of what a mule, cart, etc. is carrying. Even what is stashed at a home base. Just link them in Bio & Info tab for easy access. Maybe not as elegant as tracking all on one sheet but works.

Something I would like to see added back in is a Global AC bonus under BONUSES AND PENALTIES.  I see you have added many of the old ones you had but AC seems to be missing now. I have fighters that chose the Fighting Style - Defensive for example +1 to AC while wearing armor.  I have made a new ARMOR ITEM that works just fine for that purpose but the old sheet had that under BONUSES and it was very hand to change on the fly. LOVE the sheet so far. Keep up the great work

Global AC bonus was purposefully removed so that bonuses could be labeled as part of armor. Otherwise you could have a bonus of 1 and then get hasted and have to adjust it to 3 and then you have to remember what each bonus was. Inventory is getting slightly tricky. The way I would set it up currently is to create a set of repeating containers (Myself, Bag of Holding, Mule, etc) and then each equipment item you'd type what container it is in (same as Ammo). Then you can toggle each container on or off. I think that's the best solution, but then I also have to give it to Armor and Attacks as well.

Kryx said: Global AC bonus was purposefully removed so that bonuses could be labeled as part of armor. Otherwise you could have a bonus of 1 and then get hasted and have to adjust it to 3 and then you have to remember what each bonus was. Inventory is getting slightly tricky. The way I would set it up currently is to create a set of repeating containers (Myself, Bag of Holding, Mule, etc) and then each equipment item you'd type what container it is in (same as Ammo). Then you can toggle each container on or off. I think that's the best solution, but then I also have to give it to Armor and Attacks as well. Would each container then have a separate subtotal line on the overall weight calculation box?

No. Otherwise there would be many lines - armor carried, attacks carried, equipment carried, armor mule, attacks mule, equipment mule, armor bag of holding, attacks bag of holding, equipment bag of holding. I'll have some kind of way to determine which containers should currently add to the normal weight for armor, attacks, and equipment.

Okay, after I hit send, thought you might be able to do that as well.  "If container checked, then add to overall weight" kinda thing.

Damn the live Version still seems to be 2.1.13

FYI I have resolved the merge conflicts and 2.2.13 has been pushed to Roll20

Kryx said: FYI I have resolved the merge conflicts and 2.2.13 has been pushed to Roll20 How long does it usually take them to pick up the new version? 

Same as always - they typically take it around Monday or Tuesday and then put it up within 24hrs. I've asked them to make it more regular, but they chose not to.

sum thing id love to see is a way of adding any bonus to an item so players can take off a magical item and keep better track of what bonuses they have and where they are coming from EG a player has boots of speed that add 30 speed and then get hasted they have to remember that the bonus should be 30 not 0, i feel it will help with a lot of back and forth between the bonus section and inventory page when changing magical items and so  writing this down it seams very lazy but i think it would be cool to have a way of toggling changes to values on the sheet rather than needing to do the math every time things change EG boots of Hast that cast the hast spell on the user each time he uses them he will have to add armor  then the speed bonus. A toggle would be a lot better sorry for the ramble 

@Mason: That would be incredibly difficult to achieve. Each item would have to have a system like attacks that listed every bonus type which you could then add a bonus to.

You could go with the old-fashioned method of just remembering. ;) You can set a status marker on the token to remind otherwise. If you use the bubbles on the tokens you could use a handy dandy API script like TokenMod  to change the value. Then a handy macro for that player that can call the API (or there might be an even more elegant way...). That way, the sheet doesn't get bogged down with something that is not used more universally.

So this might have been covered elsewhere, I have not had time to go through all the posts yet, but we recently saw the new sheet and I am trying to get a grasp prior to starting the next campaign. We are too close to the end of the one we are currently on to switch sheets at this point. One thing that was missing from the old sheet and apparently on the new sheet is an "actual" maximum hit points, obviously there is a "Max Hp" section but there are a number of effects that modify that and there is no place, that I can see that will keep track of the actual maximum when a restoration or other effect reinstates the true maximum. On the other sheet I just had them notate that on the Character Section at the bottom. Given that there is possibly a month between sections this could get lost in the shuffle as a value and then we have to guess. Also, I was glancing through the posts and since historically OGL doesn't include everything (e.g. Illithid and beholder were not OGL in previous versions, no reason to expect a difference in this one) and saw that there was work on a script for import like the previous one, hoping also inclusion of the spell import as it will be easier to do all that in one shot. If that already exists can someone point me in the right direction. Also, if I can help out I would be happy to. I am a .NET programmer primarily doing DB stuff but need to learn more on the scripting side for client/front end. Let me know if I can help with something to get my feet wet at all. Thanks for the work on this.

To implement a max HP bonus I'd have to use the ability model of having a value and a bonus then calculate for a final value. But that would mean max hp can't be editable in presentation mode. I've encountered the same issue, not sure if there are better options..

I apologize I don't think I got my point across... Let's say I am a 3rd level Fighter. I have a 14 Con... my hit point rolls are 10 + 8 + 6 and I get +6 for my Con, thus making my Max Hp 30. I take 4 damage from a fall to make my hp 26/30 later I get hit by a wight and I take another 6 which unfortunately lowers my max hp by the same amount so it would be 20/24. Now later say there is a delay getting back to the game before we cast a restoration. I may not remember my "actual" maximum hit points as opposed to my "current" maximum hit points. Does that make sense, not asking for a bonus to it just a tertiary notation that holds the "true" maximum hp as in this iteration of the rules it is more fluid, although I like this more than the bookkeeping of old rules of losing levels :).

2.2.14 Fixed merge conflicts w/ Roll20's base and put in a pull request so versions should go live early next week. Removed misc weight Lots of code cleanup to prevent repeating fields errors and other optimizations Put Traits below Damage Resistances & Exhaustion Traits are now slightly smaller (11px)

@Kirk: The way to track that loss is with a bonus. This would handle cases where people have a bonus from some source or a negative from some source. REAL MAX HP + BONUS = VISIBLE MAX HP. examples: 50 + (-8) = 42 50 + 5 = 55

Ok, I would be happy with all that being manual to be honest. Has there been a wiki of some kind been posted for the new sheet yet? Trying to go through all the posts to find out why I am getting an error on attack rolls and saves off the NPC sheet. Not all the way through the posts but not finding anything thus far.

It can't be manual to provide a bonus. It has to calculate. I have to take into account all the situations, not just the one you want. What errors are you getting? Did you drag and drop? If you can provide a full reproduction path I can help debug. There likely will never be a wiki unless someone else does it and maintains it. Though I'd be much more inclined to do it via google docs as they have much better formatting and users are much more willing to contribute to them.

No I think I got it, seems some former scripts were cached somewhere and causing some interference, it appears to have been the old torch script as it brought up the Help menu from that script whenever I ran anything off your new sheet, I killed the game and started a fresh one without the other scripts and it seems fine for now. And I totally understand that I seem to have been the only one to ask for the Max Hp and being just one guy doesn't matter I just don't understand why a static field would need to apply bonuses as your Maximum Hp really doesn't change until you level and roll more hp, at least no more than temporarily anyway. It is likely that we are not on the same page in any case on that, I can just have the players type it in some random area again if need be to keep track of it (although I would be interested in hearing how others keep track of the static maximum).

You're asking for a way to modify max HP and remember the normal amount. A bonus (with a negative value) will accomplish exactly what you're asking for. It will also encompass other situations like Heroes' Feast where the hit point maximum temporarily increases. Again, look at the examples I put above Normal max + bonus = displayed max HP. 50 + (-8) = 42 50 + 5 = 55 I'll probably go a step further and show progression with an input for each level that could hold the amount rolled that level (also allow for auto). Though maybe not as that sounds like a fair amount of work and some guess work on which class is first and not worth the effort.

Yes and no, I think I am looking for something a bit simpler in application, whereas it would be nice to keep track of every level's hp gain in this system it really is moot as the bookkeeping for what used to be level drain is much simpler to track now. All I think it would require would be just the addition of a static field to your Heart Shaped section. Right now Maximum Hp would be manually changed to put in the effect of having been drained by a vampire or such, or did I miss something on the sheet somewhere? It doesn't appear there is a section to attach Max_Hp to a token and there doesn't need to be given the infrequency of these effects. Just looking for an area where you can put a number to change manually when you level up. CurrentHp/CurrentMaxHp/StaticMaxHp Variable through token interface/not variable but manually changed from sheet (Heroe's Feast or Drain)/only ever changes when you level up and roll new HP. Essentially, just a place holder. So I am curious as to how you track the actual maximum hp of a character in circumstances where they are drained or have a buff from Heroe's Feast. Again, just one guy and it is a "nice-to-have" anyway, although it is odd that I have not seen anyone else ask about this maybe there is an even easier way to track that?

The functionality that you want (tracking normal max HP without modifiers) would be accomplished in my proposed solution of using a bonus. The solution you propose would have several issues - some of which you touch upon such as linking max hp, updating multiple fields on level (if the bonus stays around), etc. If that way wouldn't meet your needs and no one else chimes in wanting it then I won't do it, but that would be the good way to make it work on a sheet.

No worries thanks for entertaining my musings, for the time being I will just have them notate something in the "Miscellaneous Notes" section again like so: Max Hp = 73. Again, I am not a web coder so from my limited stance it would just need to be a textbox not touched by anything really. But thanks for the discussion in any case.

You can record that info in the Bio & Info section - even use a table to record the levelling up gains, including HPs. Don't underestimate the usefulness of that tab. Same goes for the GM Notes section.

@Doug, I suppose that could work and also prevents players from interfering if they decide to get shifty, not that I have had issue with that. @Kryx, I realized what you meant by bonus, sorry I missed your point earlier and while that would/could work it might be overkill for a bookkeeping thing. Edit: actually found all the stuff I needed and removing the stuff that now doesn't need a response, thanks. So used to rounding down forgot that some round up now for things. Consistency in the rules on that front would be nice. Doesn't look like there is a way to implement Diamond Soul without removing all checks from the Core page and then adding @{pb} to all saves on the settings section. I know it is just one class that gets that addition of proficiency to Death Saves but is it possible to add one more line to the settings for bonuses specifically for Death Saves? Obviously this is a work around to avoid confusion of the players I guess is all, not crucial in any way. Just mentioning it.

@Kirk: Diamond Soul can be implemented by putting @{pb} on "global_saving_throw_bonus" and unchecking all saving throw profs on the core page.

Kryx said: @Mason: That would be incredibly difficult to achieve. Each item would have to have a system like attacks that listed every bonus type which you could then add a bonus to. yer i can see that it would be hard, i think it would be a more advanced end game thing to add to the ew sheet.