Putting Humpty Dumpty back together again...

The poor old Ares has taken a real beating. Not only are our engines trashed, the hull is out of points and we're missing a point of structure.  Seeing that "repairing" it is almost "rebuilding" I thought that it could be a good opportunity to swap stuff out. During the last meta session I suggested replacing one of the cutters with a 50t weapon bay. The idea is a bit mental but if we're ever going to to stuff like that this would probably be the time to do it.  Same with the Jump drive. Now that our current jump drive is toast it may make sense to put a lower rating one in. Or maybe a higher one? A Jump drive N (current is M) Would only take up 5 more tons and cost an extra 10 Mcr. A Jump Drive K (min required for 800t ship to make jump-3) would save us 10 tons and cost 20 Mcrs less.  Lowering the M drive to K would only save us 4t and 8 Mcr. But upping it to V would cost us 14t and 30 Mcr. V M-drive would let the Ares give the Ares an acceleration of 6Gs - which would be frik'n awesome.  We currently have 4 pts of armour from the ships Crystaliron hull. We could double that by giving up 20t and 16 Mcr. 20t hurts. If we found somewhere high Tech maybe we could swap out the Crystaliron plates with Bonded Superdense? Would add 2 pts of armour without eating up tonnage. Eats up 40 Mcr though.  Just bouncing some ideas around. I think we need to replace our sensor suite? Maybe we could replace that with improved sensors from p45 of High Guard? If we're going into hostile territory I was thinking that some kind of Countermeasure Suite could be good. 

According to the rules if the Jump Drive of N is installed on the Ares then a N Power plant must also accompany it.  The Powet plant must always be equal to or better than the highest drive. Gev is for backing down the drives and P-plant down to K, with no loss of performance to the current Thrust 3 and Jump 3. Gevaudan does not advocate messing with the Cutters unless out voted by the shareholders.  Losing a Cutter would free up more than his idea of lowered systems, Compacting the Bridge, repurposing the Air/raft bay's 4dT, adding Solar Panels, (for longer, minimal activity operations duration).  Gev estimates regaining 25.1 dT by such a refit that would not require a redesign task and a structural overhaul. Yet, losing a Cutter and its modules to free up 80dT to add a Screen, a Torpedo Bay (aft arc facing) or closing it up to add to fuel tankage or a cargo silo for +80dT of hauling capability; would be a task requiring the skill Trade (Space Construction) to redesign the ship. This topic came up since the inefficient design of the Sword Worlds Broadsword-class Mercenary Cruiser could see some improvement in the eyes of the Vargr crew, Gev and Runt.

The difference between K and M.  J Drive M Drive P Plant T Mcr T Mcr T Mcr K 50 100 19 40 31 80 M 65 120 23 48 37 96 15 20 4 8 6 16 25 tons difference. Handy. Would we really want a Compact bridge? We'd only gain 5t, and it'd give all pilots, navigators, sensor ops and missile turret gunners a -1. If we need 5 tons bad enough to give folks a -1 then I guess that's cool. Just seems like too much to pay for too little benefit.  Or what if we're thinking in the wrong direction? The current M drive could give a ship up to 1200t the same J-3, 3G rating that it currently gives our 800t ship. There's a "Docking Clamp" item in High Guard that could let the Ares haul another ship weighing up to 400t without affecting performance at all. It could even have another ship up to 1000t (!) and still get J-2 and 2Gs acceleration. We could turn the Ares into a "Battle Tender" that hauls a separate combat vessel around. The combat vessel (400T or 1000T) Wouldn't need jump drives or fuel for jumping - the two most expensive and bulky parts of any starship. Instead it would be all armour and guns! Or maybe cargo?  Just dreaming here. The docking clamp could go where the "captain's suite" used to be. That got crushed by an asteroid right? Just gut that part of the ship and put in the clamping mechanism. A clamp that can haul up to 300tons of ship takes up 10 tons. A clamp that can haul up to 2000tons takes up 20 tons. ( p45-46 High Guard ). We could even haul those shuttles around with clamps that take up 5t each. 

If we're just spit-balling ideas here, I've been thinking about the docking clamp idea, although not necessarily for a combat vessel. After all, the Ares is  a combat ship to begin with. But something with a less obvious presence, say a trader, freighter or a yacht, might open up a whole new set of possibilities or vastly improve our mercantile operations. On either end of this scenario, Sebastien might even be willing to spring for the second ship, though that would mean that he'd get to say how it gets used, and possibly ask for a bigger commission when it's used.  By the same token, I figure there's a pretty good chance that he'll be able to get us a great deal on whatever we do in terms of repairs, modifications or new purchases, especially if we can save one or both of LSP's stations in the Bowman system. Of course, that may involve NDA's and such and minimize our looting options...

While our Captain could arguably take a different cabin, with only the one true Starship Captain on board, we don’t want him anywhere else . I’m against the Compact Bridge on account of the penalties. Difficult enough making Comms and Sensors rolls as it is. I’m in favor of considering being able to swap out a Cutter with a 50 dTon weapons and accessories module, but *not* the associated module bay; we’ll tuck an extra module in there to swap with the Cutter we have. However, having an optional weapons system we can swap in and out with a Cutter from a more regular base of operations seems like a good idea; design it as fitting inside a Cutter Hull, and call it a day. I have consistently thought we should have certain Cutter Modules to supplement our operations: An armored, secure, luxurious, "Company Heads, VIP, & Entourage" transport module, with room for a cluster of bodyguards and a steward or two An armored and armed "Dropship" module with pintle-mounted weapons, for deploying troops to hostile territory and securing the center of camp An armored "Barracks & Motorpool" module, with Bunks and Company Motorpool, for prolonged stays away from the ship An armored "Company Tent" module, with Company Mess, Briefing Room, Commander's Office, & Officer's suites, for prolonged stays away from the ship

I'm not 100% sure - and this may be a Referee's call - but I think the docking clamp may be able to take all kinds of ships. It doesn't say that it has to be designed to affix to one particular kind of ship. So that could make us pretty modular. For one mission we may be piggybacking a 400t SDB, and for another an enginless 1000t  cargo container. We could chop and change... I think? 

A couple of crazy I ideas.... ( sorry for dodgy Paintbrush art ) So we couple a 400 Ton Dragon Class SDB onto the front. We wouldn't necessarily have to purchase this ship. It could be chartered. Could also be handy for Sector and System Navies that need someone to tug their SDBs around.  The Dragon Class SDB is a sleek and groovy ship. Not having a jump drive allows it to be more competitive when compared ton for ton against other starships. She has 6Gs, Armour and weapons t'boot. It's  featured in this video by Andrew Boulton. Or we could go for Modular Madness! ... The ship up front has a rotating ring with 30 ton modules. Our cutters are coupled with the ship and receive modules as if they were a part of a big revolver. This idea means we could keep both of our cutters, and we wouldn't have to do the awkward space walk to swap over modules that we usually have to do.  For folks who didn't know, the way a Broadsword cutter changes modules is to Pull out with currently loaded module Release it's module, letting it drift in space.  Reinsert into the Broadsword to get the second module Pull the second module out and release it - letting it float about in space.  Spacewalk to reattach the first module.  Reinsert into the Broadsword to deposit the first module Exit again, spacewalk and reattach the second module And then off you go. It's an insanely tedious process. With the "revolver" idea the new module revolves right up to the cutter. No messing about. Just load up the right one and off you go.  This would give the ares a crazy number of options. We could have luxury passenger modules, space combat modules, assault drop ship modules, fuel modules for longer trips, cargo ... SUPER flexy.  We could have one cutter on the new attached "revolver" ship or both of them, potentially freeing both cutter wells for torpedo bay weapon madness! ... or boring fortune generating cargo space. Whatever. 

Yeah, if I could get a nice half-dTon token set, I would totally redesign how that nonsense works; no realistic spacecraft designer would ever consider that a reasonable procedure for module swapping. Clearly, the default Broadsword build should have 2 or 3 arms for manipulating Cutter Modules. Regardless, these approaches are a tad too Kerbal for my taste. Additionally, we should arguably be downsizing to about 500 dTons or so to something that carries a large shuttle fit for being a mobile base capable of atmospheric landing and ground defense while the main ship stays in orbit and operates as Ortillery when needed.

Tenacious Techhunter said: Yeah, if I could get a nice half-dTon token set, I would totally redesign how that nonsense works; no realistic spacecraft designer would ever consider that a reasonable procedure for module swapping. Clearly, the default Broadsword build should have 2 or 3 arms for manipulating Cutter Modules. Regardless, these approaches are a tad too Kerbal for my taste. Additionally, we should arguably be downsizing to about 500 dTons or so to something that carries a large shuttle fit for being a mobile base capable of atmospheric landing and ground defense while the main ship stays in orbit and operates as Ortillery when needed. 400t Patrol Cruisers are pretty neat for what you just described. They come with a 30t boat and a G carrier. 400t is 100 shy of what you just mentioned but it's pretty close. Wondering what the thinking is behind the "downsizing" idea. I would have thought that going into the Extents would have called for a beefing up of our current space combat capabilities, not a reduction of them.   

On a totally separate note - how is our ticket to take the Dame to the Extents looking now that we have this massive delay? If there is any kind of timer ticking on that mission then we may want to leave the Ares behind to be repaired/upgraded, charter/purchase another ship and keep moving. Or maybe The Dame is happy to bum around and wait for us to put our ride back together? " ... carries a large shuttle fit for being a mobile base capable of atmospheric landing and ground defense while the main ship stays in orbit and operates as Ortillery when needed. " That's pretty much how I saw things going at the moment. The cutters are that "large shuttle" that hit the dirt with orbital cover from the Ares. If we don't go for Tenacious' 500t new ship idea then it'd be good to pimp out the cutters a bit to make them a little more hardy in a fight. According to High Guard a 50 Ton small craft can mount up to 4 "anti personal" weapons. I'm thinking that at least a couple of those should be "Point Defense Gatling Pulse Lasers" from the CSC (will include page number soon). That way the weapons onboard would help keep the ship alive by zapping down missiles. Still think a sandcaster would be great too. Used for defense in space, and as a gigantic shotgun when closer to the ground. 

There is a specific, GM-knowledge reason why the Dame must arrive in the Society of Equals before the end of 1110.  Even she does not know the final, real reason why she is being recalled by Kfan Uzangou , her magazine and owner of Witness.  She suspects that it is so she can be interviewed over her coverage of the Fifth Frontier War, the Imperium, Humaniti in general, and the adventures she has recorded and transmitted to them.  Field journalism awards, special accommodations and the like are another guess at her recall.  Journalists get rewards too. Should the Ticket come up late, as in the Artemis Group is late the Dame's arrival in the Dzen Aeng Kho, there is a reduction in final ticket payment for being late.  If it comes to that, Gevaudan would be happy to detach and take his elder sister, Witness and her assistant home with a little financial aid from Artemis Group.    If he completes the Ticket on their behalf, Artemis gets paid, the Society of Equals is happy, the corporation's reputation is saved, the Dame is safely home to speak well of us, etc. ad infinitum.   Besides, Gev's custom-designed, 200dT Far Scout  variant is Jump 4 and very fast at Thrust 6.  He could be back in a fraction of the time it took the Ares to do the same route.  The Sixth Horizon, Far Scout variant costs ~175 MCr or a downpayment of 35.3 MCr.  It's Gev's personal design and built to ferry dignitaries like the Dame quickly and with Fast Cycle Jump capability given enough remaining fuel.

I guess it would come down to what would take longer then - to repair the Ares or to build Gev's custom ship. 175Mcr worth of new ship would take 175 days to build ( p105 Core Rulebook ).  Not sure how long the repairs would take. the Core Rulebook doesn't mention times when talking about repairing destroyed systems. ( p143 ). Points of Hull damage and damaged systems take 1d6 hours, but our 1 point of structure damage will take 1d6 weeks to fix. No time is given for the destroyed systems, but if you go by the 1day per Mcr idea ( p105 ) that'd be 120 days x2d610%.

I have no reasonable point of comparison to judge just how harrowing the Vargr Extents are; that would likely be one of those things that makes downsizing an arguable decision. In favor of downsizing, though, would be that our crew size is a bit small for this much ship. With regards to the “shuttle & orbiter” approach, the shuttle would arguably have to be large enough to have all the necessities required for an extended stay, which means lots of crew and vehicle space; possibly as much as 80 dTons, and which doesn’t include all the “flight capabilities” stuff. It would be a really big shuttle. The downside of that is that separate 30 dTon modules are a tad more redundant and expendable; we can afford to have them take damage in ways we can’t really afford to have a shuttle take damage. But deploying 4 modules via 2 Cutters would take quite a bit of time; as would retrieving them.

I've been worrying about how this catastrophe is going to effect the Dame's ticket, too. So I just worked it out. I believe current game date is around 330-1109. With an estimated repair time of 175 days, assuming we get to work on the repairs within a few days (which is unlikely) and that we don't do the stealth upgrade (or any other upgrades, for that matter), that has us leaving Bowman around 145-1110.  The absolutely shortest course to Wypoc from Bowman is 12 jumps at J3. That puts us there around 265-1110. Quickest course to Ouse Faeg/Guvurrdon (1724), the nearest Society world, is 12 jumps. That's an ETA of 20-1111, assuming minimal trade and only the briefest stopovers for refueling, provisioning and so on.  Happy Monday.

Did you get those "175 days" from my post? That was actually how long it'd take to build Gev's ship.  The repair time for the Ares (back to it's original state with no crazy mods) is 120 days x2d610% for the J-drive, and 1d6 x7days for the structure damage. If the j-drive repair and structure damage could be done at the same time so that they overlap we may be able to shave some days off. The rest of the damage is repaired in hours so It really doesn't stress us too much.  ... And if mods could be done at the same time as repairs ... wonderland! :) The times above are from p143 of the core rule book. Except for the j-drive. I figured the repair time would be 1 day per Mcr as per regular starship construction ... but that's my guess. Pakkrat would probably have to make some kind of call on that.  But I'm guessing that it could take far less that 175 days. 

Ah, sorry. Not sure how I misinterpreted that so badly. :P So that means we're looking at a repair time of 24 to 144 days (based on just the JDrive repairs), with an average time of 84 days. That's much more feasible, though possibly still tight. 

Wolfen said: Ah, sorry. Not sure how I misinterpreted that so badly. :P  My bad. I was probably typing it with an accent. 

Would installing a brand-new Jump Drive shave any time off, since we were considering going for a Stealth-Jump Drive anyway? On a side-note, do the Vargr have any good trucker music? Maybe something along the lines of “Eastbound and Down”, only in this case, “Coreward and Trailing”? Because this “shipment” is getting sorta like that... XD

"Convoy" from the Convoy soundtrack.  Yes, I can shave some time off for refits as opposed to repair, refit and spit-n-polish that one can expect.  It might require later a diagnostic maintenance later on the following month.  This assumes refit rolls have sufficient Effect.

The Vargr remixed the “Convoy” soundtrack? XD

Tenacious Techhunter said: Would installing a brand-new Jump Drive shave any time off, since we were considering going for a Stealth-Jump Drive anyway? I was actually thinking that the 2d6x10% to "repair" a destroyed drive was actually the cost to put a new one in, mainly because you'd be stupid to pay 120% to fix a busted drive if you could just pay 100% and put a brand new one in. If you were paying less than 100% then that'd be representing the fact that some of the components of the destroyed drive could be salvaged and didn't need to be replaced.  Probably better to see a starship's drive as a cluster of different systems and components that work together rather than as a single engine block. Imagine that the engine of a regular car was "destroyed". It could mean replacing the drive shaft and radiator to make it functional again. Or maybe just the gearbox. Or it cold mean replacing the entire engine block. I think that's why they made replacing a destroyed drive a 2d6x10% rather than simply stating that you need to buy a new drive at full price.  So maybe in our situation, the cost of upgrading it to a stealth drive would be as if we were replacing a destroyed stealth drive? That would represent the fact that components from our existing drive could be used for the new one, or that the cost of removing our busted drive and replacing it with a new one adds a bit of cost to the new drive - extra labor, berthing fees, and parts etc. .  Stealth jump drives for the Ares would cost 1,200 Mcr by the way. Do we have that kind of money? If not maybe we could fit in a "redundant" jump drive that gives us J-1. It would displace 25 tons (D J-drive is the minimim that will send an 800t shipp J-1) and if it were a stealth drive it would cost us 400Mcr. Still kind of pricey but it'd let us do 1 parsec stealth jumps and also give us a back up jump-1 drive.  Maybe there are cheaper ways of being sneaky? We could plot our course so that we arrive at the edge of a system, accelerate for a bit then power down and drift in. Or maybe jump in so that we are between system's sun and the world we are trying to sneak up on. The "burst of radiation" that gives a ship away when it exits jump space would be drowned out by the sunshine. Would give Gev an opportunity to show everyone what an awesome navigator he is. 

I look at the 120% figure as, “You’ve shorn off the drive mounts... we’re going to have to rebuild the mountings, and that will be extra.”. Regardless, time is more important here, I think. Stealth drives cost 10x what a drive normally would. I’m inclined to think we have that much, but I hardly track the company accounts with any seriousness.

Tenacious Techhunter said: I look at the 120% figure as, “You’ve shorn off the drive mounts... we’re going to have to rebuild the mountings, and that will be extra.”. Regardless, time is more important here, I think. Yeah ... and if we're going with the "1 day per 1Mcr" timeframe to put a new drive in, a 1200Mcr Stealth Jump Drive is going to take us a while.  I think the idea behind Stealth J-drives is that they're for small scout crafts. They don't really seem to be practical for fat ships like the Ares. 

We’re mostly just bouncing the idea of a stealth Jump Drive around; but it’s the sort of thing that you would really want as a mercenary outfit.

Stealth J-drive would be sweet! But if there's other clever ways of being sneaky then we can save us a fortune. Literally a billion credits.  Side note ... I'm still a massive fan of couplings. If it didn't take us extra time to have them fitted while the ship was being repaired, we could have 4 5 ton couplings added to the Ares. That would give us the ability to have up to four 90t ships attached without reducing our performance. Remember that our current drives can haul an additional 400 tons and still fly at J-3 and 3Gs.  I'm thinking two 90 ton shuttles (maybe we could pick a couple up as "loot" from Bowman's zombie station?) and two 90ton gunships. That way we could run with Tenacious' earlier idea of sending landers down while covering them from orbit.  90t shuttles can carry 70t of cargo. That would give us an additional 140tons of cargo carrying, fortune generating goodness.  So we're "upgrading" our ship with additional awesomeness simply by adding a couple of 5ton couplings.  It'd even look kinda cool. I'm imagining the couplings being mounted in the space between the missile turrets. 

Just playing around with the the Book 2:High Guard smallcraft creation system. Made a couple of 90ton gunships. One is a transport with a docking tube and space for 10 passengers and an ATV. The other replaces all of that with a missile bay capable of dumping 12 missiles each turn. Can only carry 24 missiles though. I wanted it to be hitech, but oldschool at the same time, so it's a TL 13 design. Not exactly cutting edge, but still up there.  Fluff text: "Commissioned in the latter part of the fourth frontier war, the Boanerges Assault Shuttle and Boanerges Gunship never became standard designs due to complaints from line engineers. Armoured bulkheads and reinforced hull bracing made maintaining and repairing the craft's drives difficult. Despite this, the vessels gained a legendary reputation for being able to stay together under sustained fire, and some are still in service in the coreward regions of the Spinward Marches. Both classes sport drives that provide 5Gs of acceleration. The craft's 90 ton hull is designed to be able to fit into any hanger bay capable of accomodating a standard 90 ton shuttle." Boanerges class Assault Transport 90 tons (S9) TL13 Structure 2, Hull 2 -90 2.09 Reinforced hull +3 Hull 9 0.9 Streamlining 0.209 Crystaliron (x3) Armour: 12 points 13.5 1.14 Rad shielding +6 vs radiation. -1000rads 22.5 Stealth -4 to detect/lock 9 M-drive (TL12,sS) [5Gs] (ignores first hit in combat) 9 48 Armoured B'head 0.9 0.18 P-Plant (sW) (ignores first hit in combat) 8.1 18 Armoured B'head 0.81 0.162 Fuel (2weeks) (ignores first hit in combat) 3 Armoured B'head 0.3 0.06 cockpit (holo, crew 3) (ignores first hit in combat, +2 Init.) 4.5 0.625 Armoured B'head 0.45 0.625 Airlock 1 0.2 Breaching Tube 3 3 Cabin (10 Passengers) (ignores first hit in combat) 15 0.75 Armoured B'head 1.5 0.3 Armaments:   - Triple turret P-laser Accurate, high yield 1 4   - Fixed 1x Missile  Accurate, high yield 1 1.75   - 10x ground scale GUNZ! Fix this later.  - ? 12 missiles 1 Varies Advanced Sensors  (+1) 3 2 Model/5  (rating 25) 10   - Intellect Like K.I.T in Knight Rider (10) 1   - Evade/1  1 dodge per turn. (10) 1   -F.Control/3 Targety goodness. (15) 6 Cargo/ATV bay 13.94

I actually hadn't seriously considered the stealth J-Drive, personally. Just too wildly expensive for my tastes. We do have a good deal on stealth (sensor-baffling) armoring from LSP already set, but that's a separate matter, and set to be installed when we reach Lunion/Lunion (2125). Again, I think time is really going to be a deciding factor here. Firstly, we don't even know yet just how widespread the Puller Syndrome is in the Bowman system, and secondly, even in the best case scenario it's questionable whether the system has the resources and means to put us back together again. I'm thinking that, barring a miracle, we're looking at a minimum of 15 days until the big repairs can even be started (time to either send for parts/help, or get towed to a system with a real starport). Note that the one-and-only Starport B within 2 parsecs is back the way we came, and the nearest Starport A is back at Flammarion. I like the ideas been thrown around for the future here, but until we know more about what we're going to have to work with after the radioactive dust settles, I'm having a hard time looking past the next week or two.

Wolfen said: ... even in the best case scenario it's questionable whether the system has the resources and means to put us back together again. I'm thinking that, barring a miracle, we're looking at a minimum of 15 days until the big repairs can even be started (time to either send for parts/help, or get towed to a system with a real starport). Note that the one-and-only Starport B within 2 parsecs is back the way we came, and the nearest Starport A is back at Flammarion..... If we can patch the Ares up at least enough to limp at J-1 to to Walston we may be able to fix things up to J-3 and make it to Elixabeth. Walston has a class C starport which isn't all that great but it's better than the D class we're currently stuck at.  If we can fix the Ares to J-3 we could make a J-1 hop to Faldor, then out to Caladbolg's class B starport for better repairs. Faldor is a TL2 world with no real starport. So if whatever we cobble together in Bowman breaks down on Faldor we're in trouble. 

Yeah, I think we're just going to have to see what we can manage. If it comes to it, I'd much rather try >Walston>Elixabeth, rather than risk getting stuck at Faldor. On the other hand, Faldor does look interesting otherwise. Basically Earth in the Middle Ages, but with carnivorous, cannibalistic  Humanoids from the Deep . Fun.

Referee squee!

They'r both interesting worlds actually. The population of Walston is mostly vargr. And wasn't there a potential ticket at Walston that we could pick up?

Actually .... Iif we're looking to speed up our trip we may be able to do it by upping our fuel capacity. If we can find a way of hauling an extra 270 tons of fuel the Ares will be able to make two week J-6 trips. That way we don't have to stop off to refuel. Would cut down on time and let us take short cuts across wide gaps.  I just took a look at the map, and being able to pull of 2xJ-3 without refueling would get us to Wypoc in 8 jumps. It'd take about 10 with our regular fuel capacity. And add to those ten jumps time in system to refuel ... extra fuel for the win! If we swapped out all of the Cutter modules for fuel ones we'd have an extra 120 tons of fuel. So if we could use couplings to haul a couple of 90ton shuttles with their cargo bays fitted with collapsible tanks (will check if that's still a thing in Mongoose) and maybe put a 10ton collapsable fuel tank in our cargo area then we'd be all set up to make 2x J-3 trips per refuel. Either that or we just have a 270 ton drop tank fitted. Beauty of a drop tank for us is that wen't never actually have to "drop" it because the extra mass doesn't affect our ships performance at all.  Or we could go totally nuts with this idea and find a way of hauling 540 tons. 3x J-3 jumps! Not sure if that's realistic but it would really help us keep moving.

If you increase the displacement of the ship, then the jump requirements change. Drop tanks being dropped is an actual option. I’m against leaving the Cutters and Modules behind, even if that could get us an extra jump’s worth.

Tenacious Techhunter said: If you increase the displacement of the ship, then the jump requirements change. Drop tanks being dropped is an actual option. I’m against leaving the Cutters and Modules behind, even if that could get us an extra jump’s worth. DOH! Yeah that's right!  So lets just say we went for the max and took on a 400T drop tank. Our ship now displaces 1200t. That means 120t of fuel is eaten up per parsec (jump drives eat 10% of a ships mass in fuel per parsec).  if we have 240 tons of fuel at the moment (enough to make an 800t ship do J-3) That'd give us 640t of fuel. Enough to jump 5 parsecs. Still pretty good. So one j-3 and another j-2 before we need to fuel up again. That would let us jump rifts and get there faster. . If we could get another 80t of fuel by having three cutter modules tanked up we could do 2xJ3. I know folks are keen to keep the modules, but we could sell them off and buy better one's up the road. What modules have we got at the moment anyway?  Being able to do j-5 ( one J-3 and one J-2 ) would be really handy for our trip to Wypoc. We could jump to Gandih, tell the starport that our intended destination is Calit as if we were going take a 5 week J-3 trip around that way.  But instead we'd be taking a 2 week jump across the gap. If Marrg is expecting us and has ears on Gandi (which he probably does - there's a naval base there) we'd actually be able to outrun the xboat communications route. We could gain surprise if we play it right, and shave weeks off our trip at the same time.   The reason I was trying to figure it out without dropping the tank was because I'd imagine the tank to cost a non-trivial amount of credits. It'd be good to get as much use out of it as we can. 

Okay .. next batcrap crazy idea...  Its the "bandoleer" idea. To be frank I think this one is a real winner. Seems to give everyone what they want. We keep the cutters, we cut time off our trip to the Extents, it's dirt cheap and quick to set up, and it also give us plenty of potions for combat ops. BANDOLEER OPTION 1 12x 1ton clamps. 6Mcr. Each is capable of holding a 30t craft. In our case a 30t cutter module. They'd essentially be around the "waist" of the Ares, with three modules being held in place between each pair of missile turrets.   Adds 360 tons to our displacement. So each parsec now eats ((800+360)/10) 116 tons of fuel. So: J-1 - 116 tons J-3 - 348 tons So to still be able to make J3, at least two of the 12 modules must be for fuel. 312 ( existing tank ) 60 ( 2x fuel modules ). equals 24 for 2 weeks of power 348 for J-3 jump. The other ten modules could hold anything we need. That's 300tons of cargo, 300 tons of fuel, 300tons of massive 30t daisy cutter bombs... whatever you like. Could even carry a squadron of 30ton fighters! eight modules filled with fuel would provide enough juice for a second J-2 trip after the first J-3. (would be a good idea to have at least one more module carrying fuel for the power plant. 2 weeks is really a bare minimum. M power plant burns 24 tons of fuel every two weeks.) The only cost here is the cost of the clamps (6Mcr) and the cost of the modules. Fuel modules cost 1Mcr each. Open modules (for cargo or other things) only cost 0.1Mcr each. BANDOLEER OPTION 2 As above, except that two of the 1 ton clamps are replaced with 5ton clamps ( each costing 1Mcr ). The 5 ton clamps are used to hold the cutters. The cutter wells are converted either into fuel tankage, cargo or bay weapons. With this option, the fuel eaten for each parsec jumped is 120tons. That makes each J-3 eat 360 tons of fuel. If the cutter wells and module space is used to hold fuel, then two external 30 ton modules filled with fuel would provide the ship with a J-3 plus another J-1. Every 4 modules filled with fuel provides an extra J-1. So six modules filled with fuel would turn that second J-1 into a J-2. Ten modules would give the Ares enough juice for 2x J-3 trips. I think I like this option better than the first. It gets rid of the crazy shuffling we need to do to get the internal modules out. This way the cutters can simply pick up a module from a "bandoleer" and fly off. Almost no fuss at all. And blocking off the docking ports to turn the space into fuel tank seems like a very simple thing to do. And I like the easy maths of this option. 4 fuel modules = +1 parsec.  BANDOLEER  OPTION 3 As above but the cutter wells were turned into cargo space or bay weapons instead of fuel. Three modules would need to be filled with fuel in order for the the ship to make a single J-3 trip. Every 4 modules filled with fuel provides an extra J-1. So seven fuel modules would provide a J-3 and a second J-1. 11 modules would make that second Jump a J-2. This option loses a bit of range, but gains either internal cargo or huge gunz . SHUTTLE OPTION. Replace three 1 ton clamps and three modules with a single 5 ton clamp capable of holding a 90 ton shuttle. So instead of 12 cutter modules we could haul 9 modules and a single 90ton shuttle. If 6 of those modules were for fuel we could make a single J-3 plus a second J-1. If the Shuttle's cargo area was fitted with collapsable fuel tanks (need to check if they are still a thing in Mongoose) then it could easily make that second J-1 into a J-2. 

What do these options do to the M-drive Thrust?

Nothing.  The M drive on the Ares can haul up to 400 tons extra before the thrust or Jump goes down to 2. ( p108 of Core Rule Book ) The up side of having engines that are too big.  It's really the jump fuel requirements that change. Every 10 tons of extra displacement hauled requires an extra 1 ton of fuel. 

The point of dropping the drop-tank is so you don’t have to take the extra displacement with you . So you can have your extra long jumps without changing the ship’s displacement by using the fuel right away and ditching the displacement required to hold it; but it means you’re paying for lots of drop-tanks to go faster; which is a reasonable option, given the current circumstances. There is also a small penalty to the jump navigation roll, to account for the nearby object screwing up the jump trajectory a little. Additionally, it is arguable whether or not the price of a drop-tank is the actual cost , or just a usage fee , since the pricing model usually expects that you’re leaving it behind, to be recovered at the convenience of whoever. Trying to take drop-tanks with you also starts getting into rocket-equation type stuff, of spending extra fuel to move fuel. I think we should stick to using the drop-tanks as intended; find the limit of a single jump with the Jump Drive we expect to have been fitted by then, and buy a drop-tank with that much fuel in it. Admittedly, without the specs for the intended Jump Drive and the required Power Plant to go with it, this is all premature . Pakkrat, I think the ship should be treated as having the additional displacement of the Drop Tanks while maneuvering with them attached . The ship’s structure should also be treated as “Distributed” while the tanks are attached . Once they’ve been dropped in the system we’ve exited, they’re completely gone , and have no further bearing on Maneuver Drive rolls . For that jump only ,they still have bearing on any additional Jump-Drive Navigation rolls, until the jump has been completed; without the additional mass, everything returns to normal . It should be noted that drop-tank requests are often heavily scrutinized ; which may draw notice we don’t want . As such, this sounds like an after Maarg plan, unless we can get one on the down-low from people loyal to convenient parties. Strapping additional objects to our hull makes it “Distributed”, which means we would have to use the Cutters for fuel skimming, and landing would be a problem; something to consider. Personally, I think it would make more sense to build a smaller, leaner ship that does everything we need instead of trying to add to the ship in ways which have problematic tradeoffs.

Drop tanks are a great idea. My only fear with them was the high cost of making only one jump. But I think you're right - if we could hire them that'd really make them worth while.  I just checked the rules for drop tanks in High Guard ( p43 ). The M-Drive does move you slower if you have a heavy enough drop tank. Thing is, the M Drive on the Ares could haul around a 400t drop tank and not experience a drop in performance. Considering that it only takes a 240 ton drop tank to shoot us out at J-3 ( 10% of hull tonage (80t) per parsec ) we're well below the limit where a drop tank slows us down.  To get the Ares fitted out with the ability to use drop tanks will cost us 5Mcr and take up 10 tons. The tank itself costs 25Mcr.  The tanks are usually destroyed after use too. There is an 8+ chance they survive after use. After TL 14 they always survive, but before then they're usually lost. Either the expanding jump bubble destroys them or the explosive couplings that jettison it before jump do. ( High Guard p44 ). So Whether or not we can hire them from the starport pretty much needs a Referee call. Considering the fact that they usually don't survive we could be looking at 25Mcr every time we use them.  The chance of misjumping is increased a bit when using drop tanks. The DM to the roll is  –(15–TL). So jumping from a high tech world is no problem. It's that TL 7 world's drop thanks that will mess you up though.  That's why I'd lean toward the Bandoleer idea. It's only 1Mcr more expensive to have it installed, much cheaper to run in the long term, and permanently gives us heaps of flexibility.   " Personally, I think it would make more sense to build a smaller, leaner ship that does everything we need instead of trying to add to the ship in ways which have problematic tradeoffs. " While waiting around for that ship to be built may not be an option, maybe sending a message up ahead by X-boat is. We could call ahead to a fancy starport up the road, wire them the deposit, and get them to start working on it. The X-boat message would outrun us a fair bit and give the ship a head start on it's building time. By the time we get to the coreward border it could be mostly complete. Gev's ship design takes 175 days to build. I'd have to look at the map to see how much time sending the build request ahead of us would save. 

In Gev's Sixth Horizon  variant of the 200dT Far Scout, he can leave LUNION after it's built and arrive at Ouse Faeg in 12 jumps (i.e. wilderness refueling to cut costs and remain clandestine on occasion).  That's about 15 weeks in total transit and no trade. Gevuadan is going to have this speed demon built anyway when he hits a target bank account.  Maybe Artemis Group  would like to fund and finance the J-4 ship instead of Hortalez et Cie?  The Scout Base at LUNION is near the A-rated Starport dry dock yards for construction of odd vessels by Ling Standard Products, (nod to Sebastien). I'm sure the Imperium nobility would love to deport the ethnic Vargr but don't yet have a reason.  

Is the "after it's built" part going to be a spanner in the works? Is the plan to build the 6th from scratch or is it a refit of an existing ship?

The blueprints call for a 200 dT Far Scout refit, tightly packing the Bridge.  The vessel has to make room for fuel, Thrust 6 M-drive and Jump 4, Fast Cycle, J-drive.  It's fast and can outrun most missiles.  It can deliver the Dame and a few Mid/Hi Passengers plus 10 Low Berth passengers.  It has two hardpoints with triple weapon turrets.  So, yes, it is a refit of an existing hull to Gevaudan's variant specifications.  This makes the Sixth Horizon  a variant of the 200 dT Far Scout.  It even comes with Vargr paint scheme exterior to better socially blend in with the Vargr Extents communities.  

So the build time wouldn't necessarily follow the "1 day per Mcr". I mean if they're simply reworking an existing ship rather than building it from the ground up it wouldn't take as long right? Or is the plan to simply use the Far Scout design and build it from from scratch?

So I see two problems here. If you're trying to stretch the jump capacity to speed up your upcoming trip into the Vargr Extents might I suggest the use of fuel bladders. (As per TCS) using the 4 modules of the modular cutters and fuel bladders in the 77 dtons (?) in the cargo hold the ship could get another J2 within a few hours. If it's a question of wanting to improve the ship in general, I'd suggest that the worthy warship has pushed to the limits, both for its design and its usefulness to Ares.  It might be time to trade her in on something with a bit more umph. With the 5th Frontier War winding down, and your new found connections among the nobility, it might be possible to get either a surplus destroyer, or perhaps something from the prize courts. Just my 2 credits. Dave

Dave S. said: With the 5th Frontier War winding down, and your new found connections among the nobility, it might be possible to get either a surplus destroyer, or perhaps something from the prize courts. Now, you see, that’s an idea; the only problem being, anything we could find with sufficient automation is going to be kept in service. Going bigger isn’t really an option, I suspect.

I figure adding automation shouldn't take too long, and certainly not as much time as the radical alterations being proposed on the Ares.

I didn't think adding clamps was really such a "radical alteration", but I've definitely got to agree that going bigger is a great idea. We're about to go into very hostile territory. We'll be passing right through the 40th Squadron unless we take a bit of a detour. When it comes to blows in space it usually comes down to tonnage. Being small and stealthy is great ... until you get spotted. Being fast could get us out of trouble sometimes, but you can't outrun particle accelerator beams.  Talking about automation, I guess that's the only downside of going super big. Flying big ships maybe outside of our skill set. Capital piloting is a different thing to regular piloting. So is capital gunnery. If most of the positions would be automated it may reduce some of us to the role of "glorified passenger".  Just so it's on the table though, the rules for replacing valuable sophonts with detestable automated abominations ( Core Rulebook p146 ): Automated Positions The ship’s computer can cover several positions if it is running the appropriate software: Fire Control programs can either act gunners or aid existing gunners.  A ship equipped with repair drones and Auto-Repair software acts as damage control.  A ship running an Intellect program and Expert Pilot can be the pilot.  A ship equipped with repair drones and running an Intellect program and Expert Engineer (M-drive or J-drive) can be a drive engineer Automating positions seems pretty easy. And we already have a troupe of gunner robots.  EDIT: My bad - in this version of Traveller "Capital" ships are anything over 5000tons, not 1000. So my fears of becoming "glorified passengers" was unfounded. 

Jacob can use any kind of ship's weapons well, but otherwise, I take your point. We're already pretty damned well covered as far as automation goes on the Ares, though we'd obviously starting from scratch if we got a new ship. I'd rather keep the Ares. If we want to get another ship that we can tow around with us (or vice-versa), I guess that's OK; though we should see to the cost of repairing the Ares first. I don;t have any problem with the idea of hiring additional crew (npc or otherwise) for another ship, either. I miss the days that we had a small army... Well, in some ways, anyway.

So at the moment our options seem to be: Fix her up exactly as she was.  Fix her up but this time downgrade. Replace the busted M drives with K drives. Same performance, but we gain 23dtons of cargo space. Ship's new K power plant would also uses 2 tons less fuel every  two weeks. If those 23 tons were used for fuel instead then two 30t cutter modules filled with fuel would get us over the 80dtons of fuel required to jump an additional J-1. Handy if we want to keep that Dame ticket.  Fix her up, but rather than replace broken stuff with the same stuff we upgrade her up a bit. Clamps for additional Cutter Modules, or Shuttles and such. Extra fuel modules are also handy if we want to keep that Dame ticket.  Once we get moving our options seem to be: Keep moving with the Ares Ditch the Ares and get a bigger warship ship.  Ditch the Ares and get a smaller, faster, stealthy ship ( Gev's ship. Handy if we want to keep the Dame ticket, but risky to go into hostile territory with only 200tons ).  Keep the Ares, but commission the construction/upgrade of Gev's ship as well. We could fly together or send Gev's ship up ahead to scout or to scurry off to fulfill the Dame ticket.  Do I have that right?

I'd say that about sums it up.  As to the cutters specifically, I agree that we either need to get more utility out of them or dump them. Currently, we rarely use them. 

if i had character knowledge and not player knowledge i might suggest limping to Glisten/Glisten 2036