[5e Shaped] 4.0.0+ Translations

The new roll templates look nice, I think. One thing thats bothering me a bit are the skill checks, however. In the top line of each roll the attribute of the skill is shown in what seems to be way bigger font than the rest of the template. That may be because its written in Capslock, which in my opinion would look better in normal letters or could be removed altogether. For non-individually added skills the appropriate attribute should be clear anyway and its shown on the sheet as well. This just adds to the clutter in the roll section of the browser. What I noticed while writing this: The capslock attribute letters do not seem to be shown in the rolls made when scrolling through the old rolls made before logging into my campaign just now. As I look at this and think about it a little bit, maybe that would be worth a toggle option?

You may currently see something like "DEXTERITY" in full caps instead of "Dexterity" in capital D and the rest "small caps". If so that should be resolved as soon as translations go live. But since you're not pro I assume you're using 4.1.1 which just has "small caps" which is the font style used by 5e. Every letter not capitalized is about 60% of the height of the capitalized letters. The title aims to be about as big as before which is slightly bigger than the size used by spells, but around the same size as monsters. I changed the output to match what the book uses "Strength Check" or "Strength Saving Throw" for example. Or for skills "Strength (Athletics) Check". Old rolls will not be formatted in the same way as the output from the sheet has changed as well as how that output from the sheet is handled via the roll template has changed.  For example subheader is used less commonly now.

For the template after some more time, ability checks and saving throws are the ones that look most off with the large title text being left aligned atm, they seem way more off balance that the others. Some things I have noted so far. - The spell macro, I think I was unclear or am not understanding the response. I was referring to the text size when set to normal. The option is blank for text size but it normal for big. - Attacks: Honestly I thought the attacks macro was never in for some time and I found out why after seeing that it was working in a screenshot in this thread. Drag and drop items do not update the Attacks macro. This means the the attack macro was always blank for my characters at least and only manually added attacks cause an update. - Skills macro: Clicking Skills at the bottom of the skill section outputs a different macro it seems than the Ability Checks macro on the settings page as the skills one does not have a title and does not use the text size setting. - There seems to be a extra divider in spells for some reason. Example Spell Double divider after damage

Is it possible for us to not have the word "check" appended to the end of each of the skill check rolls? Just a bit of a personal gripe because me and my players have a lot of fun with the skill check fields (such as adding images to them) that the word "check" being auto appended kinda breaks it. For more of a global solution, If possible, could the category of the roll template be added in smaller text on the second line underneath the roll name, similar to the old template? Or at least make it an option to do so if the goal was to reduce the usage of subheaders. So under skill checks, it says just that, and with saving throws, it will say stuff like "strength" with "saving throws" appended on the second line with smaller.  Sorry if it seems like it's working a bit backwards.

Spell text size : It has to be blank as its being used differently than ability checks or saving throws. The roll template checks if the variable exists or not. So the select has to have the value not exist. I tried getting it to be an empty value with text, but that didn't work. I can try again, but that's why it's empty. Attacks macro : I'll ensure it gets updated when dragging from SRD. Ability checks vs skills : Skills is the same as ability checks, I just didn't change the title there. Will do so. Double border : this is being caused by the spells macro formatting in the roll template. Will fix.

Pakki said: Is it possible for us to not have the word "check" appended to the end of each of the skill check rolls? Just a bit of a personal gripe because me and my players have a lot of fun with the skill check fields (such as adding images to them) that the word "check" being auto appended kinda breaks it. Skills are labeled as they appear in the book. It's a 'Strength (Athletics) Check", not just "Athletics". Having the words in the title adds more clarity, but causes some problems with instant readability and line break formatting. I'm not sure which side should win here. Ideally a solution would work for both. On option I can do to solve this problem is to use the short ability name: "Str (Athletics) Check". In regards to your usage of images as titles: that's not really intended. If you can give me an example it's possibly something I can support as an alternate system, but it sounds pretty custom.

I would actually prefer to have separate skill and ability check query macros instead of one big long macro.

The sheet macros are intended to have all items of that category. Saving Throws has the 6 abilities plus Death saving throws Ability checks have the 6 abilities plus skills. Initiative is not included because it is a special case and has its own rules for when to roll with advantage and the like Attacks have all attacks Spells have all spells

I meant the drop down query macros.

Query macros are there to support an old workflow that is very difficult to alter/maintain. They won't change for the foreseeable future.

Kryx said: Skills are labeled as they appear in the book. It's a 'Strength (Athletics) Check", not just "Athletics". Having the words in the title adds more clarity, but causes some problems with instant readability and line break formatting. I'm not sure which side should win here. Ideally a solution would work for both. On option I can do to solve this problem is to use the short ability name: "Str (Athletics) Check". In regards to your usage of images as titles: that's not really intended. If you can give me an example it's possibly something I can support as an alternate system, but it sounds pretty custom. That's just one example. We use the built-in image embedding ( [q](url goes here) ) to do the random images, but it's just something we do for fun. So I'm not really concerned about the images in this case. Just in case you were curious P: So it's not something you need to add in. In all honesty, I'm concerned moreover about how verbose the checks look with all of the appended words through the intended formatting. I personally think that having a sub-header indicate the category of check / template might solve a lot of the problem -- or at least having an option to make it headed. Perhaps in the same line as the name, insert a divider that has that information? Seemed a lot simpler when we were able to have "insert check custom check name here" without all the extras being appended to the title ("Herbalism Kit" vs "Intelligence/Wisdom (Herbalism Kit) Check")

Is what I'm aiming for now. "STR" isn't being translated, see&nbsp; <a href="https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/3491427/" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/forum/permalink/3491427/</a> for why. Should be fixed soon. It'd be nice to have "Saving Throw" instead of "Save", but with long names (constitution I'm looking at you) and translations it's just too much to fit in 1 line consistently. So down to the shorter version. These are very straight forward so hopefully the simplicity adds some clarity to the previous verbose words. Regarding including the ability used with skills - it has always been that way. See&nbsp; <a href="http://i.imgur.com/VypYWH0.png" rel="nofollow">http://i.imgur.com/VypYWH0.png</a>

4.1.3 (2016-06-09) Bug Fixes Fixed saving_throw_vs_ability for imported creatures. See&nbsp; <a href="https://github.com/mlenser/roll20-character-sheets" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/mlenser/roll20-character-sheets</a>... Removed double border for spell with freetext Attacks should always update - even on srd drag now fixed lables for the checkboxes on the settings page macros fixed text size for spells select to now show "Normal" Adjusted roll template as below

I like them this way! Good job! Sadly I can't click the link you posted as to why the short versions of ability scores are not translated and therefore in capslock. As long as thats going to be fixed in some future release my weird anti-capslock fetish and I will be very satisfied! :)

@Kryx: Just a heads up, the link in the first post for translation is coming up page not found . Of course, we can remove part of the address to get to the correct translation. When you post updates, do you suggest that we replace everything; HTML, CSS and Translation?

I changed the url back to /translations/ and forgot to update the post. sorry! Replace everything, ya. Translations probably aren't needed every time though. I'll make sure to make a note at each update that includes a translation update. Otherwise you can skip them.

Kryx said: 4.1.3 (2016-06-09) Bug Fixes Fixed saving_throw_vs_ability for imported creatures. See&nbsp; <a href="https://github.com/mlenser/roll20-character-sheets" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/mlenser/roll20-character-sheets</a>... Removed double border for spell with freetext Attacks should always update - even on srd drag now fixed lables for the checkboxes on the settings page macros fixed text size for spells select to now show "Normal" Adjusted roll template as below I haven't seen this in action yet, but no text-align: center for those headers? The staggered justification scan line is no bueno

Kryx said: Non-centered: Almost no text in 5e is centered. Left align matches spells and monsters.

Kryx said: Kryx said: Non-centered: Almost no text in 5e is centered. Left align matches spells and monsters. I'd argue that web readability trumps similarity with D&D print products on this one. Having the sheet follow that design paradigm is great, but I don't think the Roll20 chat output is beholden to it. Shouldn't that just be, "whatever is easiest to read when info is scrolling rapidly?" If the latter, it'd either all be left justified or all centered, but not staggered. In that space, centered is the way to go. My 2c

Class features have been left aligned for a long time.&nbsp;So we already have a mix of center and left aligned. Either we embrace it or we push all for one as you want which would naturally push us to left aligned as that is how text is laid out. Here is center aligned: It doesn't look good and the readability is very very low on paragraphs.

Title and subtitle would look good center aligned. Bulk of the body left aligned with die rolls and such centered. Sticking to 5e book design methodology doesn't make sense in a chat window.

lol Shaped Script Trait Police, much looks. Honestly im fine with left aligned, I think people are just not used to the change from the templates thats basically been around for ages. Give it 2 weeks or so before making any more sweeping changes really.

Saevar L. "Liquid-Sonic" said: Honestly im fine with left aligned, I think people are just not used to the change from the templates thats basically been around for ages. Give it 2 weeks or so before making any more sweeping changes really. Indeed. It's in a pretty good state right now I think. Really the same as before with the mix of center and left-aligned. I think people aren't aware of the previous state or the current array of possible outputs from the template and how adjusting it in one place adjusts it for them all which doesn't necessarily look great. We'll see.

Centering the title and subtitle should not affect the body of the template unless your css is wonky.

It could include both or not - depending how I do it. The point made is that the title "must" be centered to match the rest, but really the only thing centered is the rolls. Everything else is left aligned. You'd likely be surprised the amount of things left aligned. The argument put forward is that they should match alignment. They never have matched. I'll see if I can make non-centered rolls look good tomorrow as normal paragraphs can't be centered.&nbsp;

I am liking the change to saves and ability checks, they look much better now. Overall right now, while I would much prefer a centered title section the one thing I would like to see is a divider between the title and body. The best case I can think of is just to add white space padding to divide the two which should keep 5th style as close as possible while including some separation for clarity. The main reason being cases like turn undead The title and save seem too close together to me. Other than that small thing the one thing that seemed odd is using a skill vs using the button on ability checks seems to do titles differently and I am not sure if it should or not. Example: first is clicking the skill with the second clicking the button in chat.

@Kryx via Vanakoji: I agree with a little padding between the title and saving throw and I'm experiening the same thing with the skill check from the sheet versus one from the chat menu.

The 2nd ability check there is from the NPC sheet which I didn't update yet. Will be fixed in next version. Roll template v3:

That is pretty much the opposite of what people have been asking for. This is what people are used to when it comes to roll templates. Minus the alterations of inline rolls. I like making them a minimum of 2em so that they line up better.

SkyCaptainXIII said: That is pretty much the opposite of what people have been asking for. It includes spacing between the title and the rest of the template as requested by Vanakoji and Kaelev. It then includes what I wrote above: Kryx said: The point made is that the title "must" be centered to match the rest, but really the only thing centered is the rolls. Everything else is left aligned. You'd likely be surprised the amount of things left aligned. The argument put forward is that they should match alignment. They never have matched. I'll see if I can make non-centered rolls look good tomorrow as normal paragraphs can't be centered.&nbsp;

I was specifically speaking towards centering of the title. The bulk of the templates can be left aligned for easier reading. The title and rolls however, I personally prefer them centered on these templates. Left aligned doesn't look good.

It just doesn't include two items that&nbsp; you want: centered titles and rolls. You are able to customize it like you did the inline rolls.

Kryx said: It just doesn't include two items that&nbsp; you want: centered titles and rolls. You are able to customize it like you did the inline rolls. It's what people are used to. I don't see anyone asking for left aligned titles and rolls. And Vanakoji's suggestion about moving the rolls and DC information above the text block is good. It keeps the relevant info right at the top for easy info at a glance while still providing the full block of text for details.

I am liking the space between the title section and the rest as that small bit seems to help things from blending together and on spells helps follow the style even better (there is some extra space between spell level and casting time in the book compared to casting time and range). For the newest look, while I like centered titles I understand why it doesn't fit the goals of the new look of matching 5th book design however I would have to say I much prefer at least rolls/damage/saves kept centered. Everything else is looking good in the current version though. Most likely another chrome issue but as before where the dividers are gone from roll template, the current chrome version (51.0.2704.84) has an issue with the bars on the spell section. On&nbsp;50.0.2661.102 Not sure if it is a wait from chrome issue but I will mention it just in case.&nbsp;

SkyCaptainXIII said: It's what people are used to. "What people are used to" entirely depends on their experiences with UI, the games that they'd played on roll20, etc. In regards to D&D 5e I'll concede that people are used to centered titles. However that&nbsp;doesn't determine that it should always be centered titles. People were also used to the old layout. Some complained when this redesign with the goal of matching the paper sheet came out. That's the nature of UI - it's quite subjective. In my experience with trends people initially reject it, but grow to like it more over time with understanding. Material design is a good example of this. Looking back at old pseudo-isomorphic icons on iOS makes them look dated now. But UI design goes in and out of fashion. SkyCaptainXIII said: I don't see anyone asking for left aligned titles and rolls. That's the thing about the internet - those that are unhappy are usually louder. However if you do look at this thread you'll see not everyone is as negative regarding it as you are. In general people seem to be getting happier with each iteration - that's good. I appreciate feedback and want to make the best product, but I also expect users to be willing to try new things every once in a while. Maybe in the end it will turn out unfavorably, but that direction should be fully tried before it is no longer considered. The goal here is to create a simpler, flatter, styled similarly to the sheet, and usable roll template. This sheet has continuously responded to user feedback. As a result it offers the most customization of any sheet on roll20 with lots of house rules and adjustments possible. A lot of (free) work has been put into this sheet. I don't expect conformity as a result, but perhaps a bit more respect and willingness to consider a new direction. If after a few iterations the roll template still isn't sufficient then we can reconsider the direction. I'll wait on feedback - particularly from the regular posters and contributors like Kevin and Vanakoji.

Vanakoji said: I am liking the space between the title section and the rest as that small bit seems to help things from blending together and on spells helps follow the style even better (there is some extra space between spell level and casting time in the book compared to casting time and range). For the newest look, while I like centered titles I understand why it doesn't fit the goals of the new look of matching 5th book design however I would have to say I much prefer at least rolls/damage/saves kept centered. Everything else is looking good in the current version though. I will wait on feedback for a bit (webcoder and kevin's opinions would be nice additions). I have my own thoughts, but don't want to bias any other feedback. Vanakoji said: Most likely another chrome issue but as before where the dividers are gone from roll template, the current chrome version (51.0.2704.84) has an issue with the bars on the spell section. Not sure if it is a wait from chrome issue but I will mention it just in case.&nbsp; Indeed a chrome upgrade issue with what my css was - it's the same thing that happened in the roll template. I didn't even notice they were gone. I have the fix in - will push it later tonight.

The sheet and the chat window are two entirely different mechanisms of sharing information. There's absolutely no good reason to limit the roll template to the same styling of the character sheet. Roll templates are for providing concise immediately needed information to the GM and other players quickly. Hence why coloring, shape, size, and alignment should all be used in a consistent manner to share that information.&nbsp;Dense information is better left for the character sheet where the flatter, simpler styling makes sense However, due to the way importing spells works on this sheet and the 5e OGL... and the way you've made the roll templates work, they spit out all that spam of information by default and it's way too damn much work to go through each character's spells every time they add a new one to trim out all the excess info.

It's like you didn't even read what I wrote.. *sigh*

Hello, Just to add another opinion on this topic : I really don't mind the "Left aligned" titles and body texts. They look good to me. For me they even are better than the "full centered" version which is horrible for readability of the main text. I think it's just a matter of time before we get used to it. But the thing I really don't like on the v3 roll template above is the left aligned DC/saves/rolls results. I really wish they'll be centered for clarity. My 2 cents.

I'm too impatient to wait for a response. :P I'm inclined to agree. Roll template v4 (ignore "DEXTERITY" and "CHA" - they will be fixed):

Alix R. said: Hello, Just to add another opinion on this topic : I really don't mind the "Left aligned" titles and body texts. They look good to me. For me they even are better than the "full centered" version which is horrible for readability of the main text. I think it's just a matter of time before we get used to it. But the thing I really don't like on the v3 roll template above is the left aligned DC/saves/rolls results. I really wish they'll be centered for clarity. My 2 cents. Just what I think. Left aligned titles and body texts look good. More so with the added mal gap between the title and the rest of the infos. The alignment of the rolls looks a little weird and out of place in the v3 version and I for one liked the old centered roll results better. Styling something is always hard. It mostly comes down to personal preference and taste as long as the design is somewhat clear to read and uncluttered. And of course only those people with actual feedback - read: those that have some critique - are going to give helpful advice. At least thats my experience with it.

I like it this way ! Did you removed on purposed the Character name ? I liked having it on the roll template. And maybe add some vertical spacing between the DC of the spell and the damage section ? Apart from that it looks good !

Alix R. said: Did you removed on purposed the Character name ? I liked having it on the roll template. Character name is an option in the settings tab. These just don't have it turned on. Alix R. said: And maybe add some vertical spacing between the DC of the spell and the damage section ? The spacing between sections is the same - they have a small 2px padding, then a divider (if conditions are met), followed by 2 more px of padding. AC is the same. Do you want more? How would you change it?

Hey Kryx, thanks for all the hard work on this. I think the new roll template looks great. The old "banner" style template was cool, but this has better readability and I agree with the premise of following the style guide of what is in the books. As far as the text alignment goes, I like it the way it is, but don't have a strong preference on it. I imagine I'd be happy either way. My only lingering issues/requests are the following: (and I'm not a pro-level user, so I understand some of this can be controlled with the scripts, but I'm not interested in upgrading at the moment) Is there any way to control the way the sheet auto-populates certain fields? I'm thinking specifically of the Critical damage field for attacks. As it stands ( I love the fact that you implemented the ability to house-rule critical hits at all!) I am going to have to modify every attack of every NPC and PC (or have my players do it). Would be nice if there was a toggle for the way it was handled. I think the most popular house rules for Crits are the standard (double rolls), double damage (single roll, doubled), and max roll (max the original die, and roll crit damage). I know this would open a can of worms to every DM's house rule , but I think supporting the variants that have been R.A.W. in past editions, like I'm pretty sure the above are, would be a fair way to do it. Of course, if it's not possible, or onerous to code, I'll understand if you say "tough luck, do it manually." Thanks again!

Hey Joe, For now: tough luck, do it manually.&nbsp;:D For the future:&nbsp; <a href="https://github.com/mlenser/roll20-character-sheets/issues/141" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/mlenser/roll20-character-sheets/issues/141</a> has been created. I will try to support all options. The RAW rules and the max rule will be easy enough. I don't think I can double a single roll with the current setup (it is pretty much the same as RAW so it's not super necessary imo). I will try to get this done within a week, no promises though.

Kryx said: Alix R. said: Did you removed on purposed the Character name ? I liked having it on the roll template. Character name is an option in the settings tab. These just don't have it turned on. Oh, my bad, will look into that. Kryx said: Alix R. said: And maybe add some vertical spacing between the DC of the spell and the damage section ? The spacing between sections is the same - they have a small 2px padding, then a divider (if conditions are met), followed by 2 more px of padding. AC is the same. Do you want more? How would you change it? Just looking at the v3 roll template above, when there is a green (crit) or blue box around the number, it touches the delimiter, and make my OCD tilt a bit :D So maybe add just 1px more as a spacing to see how it goes ? All in all, this is just detail and I could live happily with the v4 presented here ;)

Alix R. said: Just looking at the v3 roll template above, when there is a green (crit) or blue box around the number, it touches the delimiter, and make my OCD tilt a bit :D So maybe add just 1px more as a spacing to see how it goes ? All in all, this is just detail and I could live happily with the v4 presented here ;) I think you may have this backwards. On the images above v3 has the crit border touch the black divider. v4 fixed this. I believe that (no touching!) is what you want - correct?

Kryx said: Alix R. said: Just looking at the v3 roll template above, when there is a green (crit) or blue box around the number, it touches the delimiter, and make my OCD tilt a bit :D So maybe add just 1px more as a spacing to see how it goes ? All in all, this is just detail and I could live happily with the v4 presented here ;) I think you may have this backwards. On the images above v3 has the crit border touch the black divider. v4 fixed this. I believe that (no touching!) is what you want - correct? Yes ! My bad, I was looking into v3, without seeing the correction on v4. No touching, that's what I wanted (no puns intented...). For the spells that come with a saving throws, do you output the result of a success field like "half damage" ? I liked to have it directly on the roll to know the consequences of a failed or succeed roll. &nbsp;Yes it's shown, I just tested it. No more remarks on my side !

4.1.4 (2016-06-10) Bug Fixes Updated all selects to now be based on words instead of @(ability_mod} syntax. This affects attacks, spells, traits, actions, reactions, legendary actions, lair actions, regional effects, skills, unarmored abilty, default ability. Everything should update automatically, but it's a rather large change so let me know if I missed anything. Adjusted roll template as below (rt v4)

On version 4.1.4, I create an NPC sheet by dragging from the compendium. The ability score modifiers are not included in the list of Skills. Also when you roll a skill check, you get an error "No attribute was found for @{Ankheg|W)}" and the ability score modifiers are not added to the resulting roll as well.