Suggestion or constructive comments here

On my to do list is the following Get working tabs to either preset sheets for classes or Hide Areas but with alternative checkboxes Wishlist (future items) Get the background image to work on the sheet (toggleable) ? Suggestions or constructive comments?

To incorporate some of the coding I want, it looks like I might have to do a total rewrite or close to it. To much of the sheet is hardcoded to function only a certain way and I'm struggling to figure workarounds. Off to the github to look at other sheets and their codes.

Often times it's best to start from a blank slate, working around code that just doesn't do what you need/want, will only cost you more time and frustration. The one thing I'd like most to see would be a tab that can act as a proper spellbook, with places to fill out for what spell does, it's level and remaining uses, along with two "rollable" buttons, one that will copy and paste the full description of the spell into chat, and one that "casts" the spell, giving a much more brief description and allows for /roll commands to do the math. These two buttons would correspond to two different text boxes in each spell's entry. That's the only item on my wishlist at the moment.

Got the background image to work but it is not like I wanted. I had to hardcode it. Still trying to figure out how to shift the actual fields and text to the right by a few pixels to get them off the edge.

Looks good, surely there's a way to just nudge it off to the side a little, though it was surprising you had to hardcode it. I think this sheet is coming along nicely. Wish there was more I could do to help to be honest.

I'm tired of wracking my brain on rewriting the sheet so I'm going to plagurize the BECM sheet as it is similar to BFRPG and tweak the code to basic fantasy mechanics. This should give something close to what will work.

I'm sure they won't mind, if there's a place to give credit make sure to note them as such.

I'm laying it all at their feet in the css and html code. Anywhere else I can will go there also.

Looking forward to how it turns out, will it have mostly the same layout? Not that it matters, so long as all the info we need is there it will do just fine.

Having problems posting code to be seen in the forum. Will make a thread soon about it.

Been making progress with the sheet.

Oh? I'll have to check it out, been busy this past week.

Have the main, abilities, optional tabs worked out. Currently working on the combat tab. Need to get some rest before my game tonight.

Ok, everything but the spellbook and the inventory should be done and working. The spellbook and inventory works but not rebuilt for basic fantasy yet. I will continue working on it but it should be done in about another week or two so I hope.

Down to the last tab - Inventory. Might get it finished for review this weekend but not sure.

Other than some css code clean up (which shouldn't effect anything) the sheet is done as much as I can get it to work. I have not figured out, yet, how to get the repeating inventory weight to tally up so it is still a manual process. I need eyes on the sheet and let me know what is wrong with it.

Here are screen shots of the tabs. Inventory tab has been renamed to Equipment.

Did some edits on the code. Now the ability formulas are not visible, just the end result. that should cut down on any confusion.

Changed a little bit around in the layout and added a few features. Secondary skills has a new input field for modifiers like skill level (per the supplement), Weapon specialization now shows what the bonuses for the rank chosen. I have not gotten the combat section to show the weapon specialization automatically but it is listed on the sheet now in the optional tab. Still reading up on the autocalculations for the repeating fields (encumbrance).

Had to stop the work as I have to get ready for work today. Suggestions and feedback is always welcomed.

Ok. I need people to take a look at the sheet and give feedback along with suggestions. I've moved the optional specialization down to the combat section as I incorporated it into the actual dice roller. What I need now is suggestions about what optional material I need to put in the optional tab.

1.  Please remove the "a/an" text in weapon attacks like, "Hazza attacks with a/an Short Bow". 2.  A column for equipment item cost (with a column total) would be nice. 3.  Being able to see the makeup of a roll (as in the "yellow/pencil" D&D 5E sheet) would be very good. I just started playing BF again today, in JP's game, so I'll keep an eye out for sheet stuff. Thank you!

This is a work in progress update. I won't create a pull request for a while, maybe in a month or so. I was initially doing one once a week but the basics is done and now it is more of updates and tweaking. Helen P. said: 1.  Please remove the "a/an" text in weapon attacks like, "Hazza attacks with a/an Short Bow". 2.  A column for equipment item cost (with a column total) would be nice. 3.  Being able to see the makeup of a roll (as in the "yellow/pencil" D&D 5E sheet) would be very good. I just started playing BF again today, in JP's game, so I'll keep an eye out for sheet stuff. Thank you! Just remove the text so that it just states "@character attacks with @weapon"? That is something I can do but the totaling is something I'm still trying to figure out as it is in a repeating field. I would like do the cost and the weight total for the encumbrance. Not sure about that I will have to look at what you mean.

1.  Yes, I thought it looked odd, and then another player tried to correct me for what the macro wrote. 2.  Ideally, it should be quantity x unit cost (converted into GP), and then total it all, but even if the player had to do the quantity x unit GP, it would be useful. 3.  If you hover over a roll in the "yellow" D&D 5E, it will show the dice and modifiers that made up the total.

Helen P. said: 1.  Yes, I thought it looked odd, and then another player tried to correct me for what the macro wrote. 2.  Ideally, it should be quantity x unit cost (converted into GP), and then total it all, but even if the player had to do the quantity x unit GP, it would be useful. 3.  If you hover over a roll in the "yellow" D&D 5E, it will show the dice and modifiers that made up the total. That is an easy fix.  Done. I will have to look into the code and see what I can do. It is complicated because the repeating fieldset changes the name of the attribute of every new addition. I'm still trying to learn that code. Once I do, it will be easy to add that feature to the sheet. Ah, I added additional [[ ]] brackets because of the complex formula that is used to create the proper attribute modifiers (+1,+2,+3). I will have to look into where I can alter it enough to allow the formula without adding the modifier formula ( it shows lots of .000 numbers added together and other math). I just doublechecked and this sheet has that feature already. Is there a specific roller on this current sheet that does not have that enabled? Helen P. adds: Now, that's odd... the #3 details didn't appear when I looked before, but do appear today. Maybe the substantial connection problems yesterday had something to do with it.  Done/Unneeded.

Pat, this sheet is really good. I can't wait until the next push so it will be available for us all. I had just a few minor thoughts and created a handout in the journal with them. Minor stuff, because overall it's perfect. Thanks for the hard work, and thanks for giving us the opportunity to check it out.

At the moment I'm digging into the TheAaronsheet script (TASscript) in an effort to get the encumbrance to calculate.

Copied from the handout that JP created for his thoughts. I posted my responses in the handout but I wanted to post them here also. -The stat modifier in the class abilities seems unneeded. I looked through alot of classes and can't find where an ability, rolled on a percentile dice would be modified by a stat. It's possible it could be removed for simplicity. -The choice to include that is based on the fact that there is a couple supplements that have skill modifiers based on the stat bonus/penalty - Pat -I'm assuming detect stonework under basic abilities is a catch all for a dwarfs ability to detect passages, walls and new construction. - pg 9 Dwarven special ability talks about it and that is why it was included. It specifies a 1d6 usage similar to the others so for the sake of completeness, I included it. - Pat -The secondary skill supplement has an option to allow you to spend three skill points to receive 1 rank in a skill from a different class and have the 17 (or level appropriate DC) for that skill. It's easy to do in the sheet now, just make a note in the name and call it a class skill. However, it might be possible to add that to the list of skill types, and have it calculate that skill as a DC of the ability check score. -The modifier is to be used as your level. I just did not change the name yet as I was not sure of how much room I would have for the skill header. The mechanics is rather simple. Non-class is target number 20, general is 17, and class is your optional ability score (located just below the stats). The roller uses a d20+modifier+stat mod vs the target number set by the "list as". I could set it up to have a skill point input and the modifier equal 3 skill points (set to be read only). This would let players track their points in the skills easier. - Pat -I the encumbrance is still giving challenges. At least it shows total weight, and maybe that's as good as it gets. -I'm working on getting the TAS (TheAaronScript) functioning in the sheet so that encumbrance auto-totals. - Pat

#3 is OK; see the note I added to your post (to keep it together).

Ok. Just understand this sheet in this game is differing from the currently in use sheet. What we have here is the next version so as time goes on, it will change from what is in use for the general community. I uploaded the html and css files to my google drive (link is posted in the description) which is set to be shared by anyone that uses the link.

I checked the sheet in JP's game, not here.  I tried to view the details several times yesterday without luck, but they appear today. I just checked, and it's fine with the sheet here, too.

I did a slight alteration on the class abilities with the attribute mods. I move it to be applied to the class skill score instead of the roll. It is a mistake on my part of misreading the supplement.

Question for those that are interested. Should the rolls be setup (hardcoded in the sheet) to be a gm whisper instead of just into the chat? Was not planning on it but just a thought that hit me and wanted other opinions on it.

I don't think you want them coded as GM rolls. The rolls to the chat help me to work with newer players so they can understand what the rolls are doing. It's a better learning opportunity, and if I need to hide the roll it's super easy for me to just use a rolling macro, or type it in a /gmroll. Just my opinion though.

I like it whispered since as a text based GM I like to keep the mechanics in whispers but this sheet is not for just me. It is for the whole BFRPG community on roll20 so I have to think about that aspect. I like hearing about it helping newer players. Should I place page numbers or such on core rule sections? I have thought about putting an additional page that lists the various supplements I pulled information from but did not think it would be truly worthwhile to have it as a sheet page. I'm going to look into the json or such to have that info if that is what displays on the setting page where you select the sheet. I think that would be the best way to have the information.

IMO, the equipment listing seems too fragmentary, and the code for it could be simplified.  I suggest the following. 4. Delete the "Coin Carried" area, and instead list the coins as items. -- Gems, trade goods, etc., are "cash", too. -- My PC once had:    gems and platinum coins in a money belt;    GP, SP, and CP in a belt pouch; trade goods in her backpack; and    a 30-lb. bag of mixed coins that she hadn't had time to sort and count in a sack. 5. Delete the separate equipment listings, and collapse it into a single list instead. -- It's simpler, and items may be moved around and grouped more easily.    (e.g., PC gets the silver bars out of storage, puts them in a saddle bag for travel,           then transfers them to backpack before meeting a merchant). -- Put a binary check button to include/exclude the item in the Encumbrance total.    (the D&D 5E sheet calls this "equipped"). ---This also allows the the player to uncheck all of those for the PC, and    instead check the ones for their mount, to get the beast's encumbrance total. -- Also add a simple text field for each item's Location (or use the existing Notes field). Name            Qty Uses Cost Weight Equipped Location     / Notes Mixed Coins  500                    0.2      no           Saddle Bag  To be sorted GP                  12            1       0.2     yes          Money Belt SP                  29             0.1    0.2     yes          Backpack SP                    5             0.1    0.2     yes          Pouch Gems               3         100       0        yes          Money Belt Silver bars        2         500       5        no           Tavern Safe Trusty Sword    1           15       3        yes          Belt              Might be cursed Sturdy Armor    1           50     25        yes          Worn Rations             5   1       0.5     2        yes          Backpack

6. One issue with page number references is what happens if they change with a rules revision? Still, having some kind of footnotes or brief pointer to the appropriate rules section(s) would be very handy. 7. You might consider a "regular/gm roll" binary button, if it's not too much coding. Could there be a universal button for all rolls? The GM could click it, make any rolls (as automatic gm rolls), then unclick it. It would be nice for things like PC passive perception, or NPC rolls. The player might also use if it the GM wanted them to make a hidden roll.

Could you maybe hated code some of the thieves skills to be a whisper I always find that it's better if my players don't always know if they succeeded in that find traps roll... Or that pick pocket roll lol

Thomas H. said: Could you maybe hated code some of the thieves skills to be a whisper I always find that it's better if my players don't always know if they succeeded in that find traps roll... Or that pick pocket roll lol The player would still see the whisper as it off their sheet. This is something that each GM would have to decide on how to handle. Many GM's prefer rolls in the open while others like them behind the screen (secret rolls). I like my players to whisper their rolls so that only two people (Me and them) know the actual roll result. It then puts it on them to roleplay their failure while the rest of the group has to roleplay the event without the actual knowledge of the roll result.

Stripped the TAS code and created a pull request for the current sheet. I didn't want the TAS code included yet as I have yet to get it functioning but wanted the current sheet updated.

Neil B. said: Hi Pat, Great work on the sheet, appreciate your efforts. I believe I've spotted a bug in the Abilities/Class Abilities section when a Stat is used. By way of example: I have created a character with Dexterity of 15 giving a +1 Mod. I then added the Thief Abilities in the Class Abilities section with a Listen of 30%. I tested the roll and without Stats being taken into consideration it works fine. I then added the DEX stat. I was expecting the success range to be 1-35 in this instance, and 36+ to be a fail, but successful rolls were in the range of 1-25, while 25+ was a fail. I think the formula needs modifying from: {{roll=[[{1d100+@{ability_stat}}<@{ability_rank}]]}} to: {{roll=[[{1d100}<@{ability_rank}+@{ability_stat}]]}} Neil B. said: Just a few other observations: There are some limits on recording Elf abilities in the Basic Abilities section, perhaps these could be added to in the same way as Class Abilities: In addition to 'Finding Secret Doors' which is successful on a 1-2 on 1d6, there could also be an option for 'Spot Secret Doors' which is successful on a 1 on a 1d6 (p5 of rules, finding a door with a cursory look, there may be a better term for it than 'spot'). It would be handy to record Immunity to Ghoul paralysis, and; Record that Elves are only surprised on a roll of 1 on 1d6. Is it possible to calculate encumbrance for items added - it does this already for GP. Some character sheets show base saving throws, then racial mods in a separate column. I know it is easy to adjust the target saving throw numbers by subtracting the bonus, but I prefer them being shown in a separate column.

Helen P. said: IMO, the equipment listing seems too fragmentary, and the code for it could be simplified.  I suggest the following. 4. Delete the "Coin Carried" area, and instead list the coins as items. -- Gems, trade goods, etc., are "cash", too. -- My PC once had:    gems and platinum coins in a money belt;    GP, SP, and CP in a belt pouch; trade goods in her backpack; and    a 30-lb. bag of mixed coins that she hadn't had time to sort and count in a sack. 5. Delete the separate equipment listings, and collapse it into a single list instead. -- It's simpler, and items may be moved around and grouped more easily.    (e.g., PC gets the silver bars out of storage, puts them in a saddle bag for travel,           then transfers them to backpack before meeting a merchant). -- Put a binary check button to include/exclude the item in the Encumbrance total.    (the D&D 5E sheet calls this "equipped"). ---This also allows the the player to uncheck all of those for the PC, and    instead check the ones for their mount, to get the beast's encumbrance total. -- Also add a simple text field for each item's Location (or use the existing Notes field). Name            Qty Uses Cost Weight Equipped Location     / Notes Mixed Coins  500                    0.2      no           Saddle Bag  To be sorted GP                  12            1       0.2     yes          Money Belt SP                  29             0.1    0.2     yes          Backpack SP                    5             0.1    0.2     yes          Pouch Gems               3         100       0        yes          Money Belt Silver bars        2         500       5        no           Tavern Safe Trusty Sword    1           15       3        yes          Belt              Might be cursed Sturdy Armor    1           50     25        yes          Worn Rations             5   1       0.5     2        yes          Backpack Most of that will require a total or close to total rewrite of the existing code in the inventory section. That might take a long time for my minimal skills to achieve. Helen P. said: 6. One issue with page number references is what happens if they change with a rules revision? Still, having some kind of footnotes or brief pointer to the appropriate rules section(s) would be very handy. 7. You might consider a "regular/gm roll" binary button, if it's not too much coding. Could there be a universal button for all rolls? The GM could click it, make any rolls (as automatic gm rolls), then unclick it. It would be nice for things like PC passive perception, or NPC rolls. The player might also use if it the GM wanted them to make a hidden roll. That is why #6 was just a thought and opinions asked but not implemented. I had thought of having a hover over pop up for the page number. This would let the page info be known but only if the player hovered their cursor over the input field. #7: I will look into that but not sure how to do something like that. My coding skills are minimal at best. Most of this sheet is ripped from an existing sheet that I'm tweaking to our needs. Neil B. said: Hi Pat, Great work on the sheet, appreciate your efforts. I believe I've spotted a bug in the Abilities/Class Abilities section when a Stat is used. By way of example: I have created a character with Dexterity of 15 giving a +1 Mod. I then added the Thief Abilities in the Class Abilities section with a Listen of 30%. I tested the roll and without Stats being taken into consideration it works fine. I then added the DEX stat. I was expecting the success range to be 1-35 in this instance, and 36+ to be a fail, but successful rolls were in the range of 1-25, while 25+ was a fail. I think the formula needs modifying from: {{roll=[[{1d100+@{ability_stat}}<@{ability_rank}]]}} to: {{roll=[[{1d100}<@{ability_rank}+@{ability_stat}]]}} That is actually part of the update I did a short while ago.  Neil B. said: Just a few other observations: There are some limits on recording Elf abilities in the Basic Abilities section, perhaps these could be added to in the same way as Class Abilities:In addition to 'Finding Secret Doors' which is successful on a 1-2 on 1d6, there could also be an option for 'Spot Secret Doors' which is successful on a 1 on a 1d6 (p5 of rules, finding a door with a cursory look, there may be a better term for it than 'spot'). It would be handy to record Immunity to Ghoul paralysis, and; Record that Elves are only surprised on a roll of 1 on 1d6. Is it possible to calculate encumbrance for items added - it does this already for GP. Some character sheets show base saving throws, then racial mods in a separate column. I know it is easy to adjust the target saving throw numbers by subtracting the bonus, but I prefer them being shown in a separate column. I added a note field in the Basic Abilities section for additional notes such Racial Abilities. I'm currently working on the calculation of the encumbrance but it is slow going as I do not understand how to do the js script. I took your suggestion about an additional column for a saving throw modifier and added it. Current project is getting the js script to work so the encumbrance will calculate then looking into rewriting the inventory code (long term).

created a pull request for the current sheet.

Well I get to create a new pull request as I had to fix some errors. Had duplicated attr names which was causes a slight conflict.

I have been reviewing other sheets and the ogl 5e sheet is very interesting. I'm thinking of testing out a switch to it's code while retaining the current naming convention so that the next rewrite will be backwards compatible. If I go this route, it will make maintaining the sheet easier as 5e sheet gets updated, I can pull the tested code and implement it into the BFRPG sheet. Opinions?

The 5e OGL sheet is actually quite nice, it's very simple and intuitive and only 3 tabs instead of 6+. The way you can add in your own math for a roll and let the computer make the roll look nice when you make it, taking all the data and what not. I've played two 5e one shots as of late, one with the OGL version, one with the Community Contributed one, and I strongly prefer to OGL version. It might make the Basic Fantasy sheet a lot simpler and easier to maintain.

Jake W. said: The 5e OGL sheet is actually quite nice, it's very simple and intuitive and only 3 tabs instead of 6+. The way you can add in your own math for a roll and let the computer make the roll look nice when you make it, taking all the data and what not. I've played two 5e one shots as of late, one with the OGL version, one with the Community Contributed one, and I strongly prefer to OGL version. It might make the Basic Fantasy sheet a lot simpler and easier to maintain. That is my thoughts about it also but the code is complex behind the scenes so I will be reviewing it while trying to learn how to tweak it to BFRPG.

Is it? It can't be any worse then the code for the Community Contributed version. Have you considered just making a sheet from scratch and just using the time and process of learning how to do it from sqaure one as a learning experience?

I have and will probably end up doing that but it is a long process to learn everything which is ok as this version is just being tweaked and such since it is much better than the first version. The next version I want it to be even better so building it from scratch is probably the best (but slowest) way to go.

You are learning and that's what matters. Each sheet will be better then last, lessons will be learned, mistakes will be avoided and we'll all benifit in the long run, which is why there is no rush in this either.