RE: paladins in Pathfinder...

I've only played Pathfinder once, for a few hours, about six months ago. So I'm still kind of a newb, but I'm thinking of giving it another shot, and this time, I might try a paladin. So here's my question: paladins are supposed to be the ultimate champions of the lawful-good gods, in a world where the existence of said gods is not disputed, right? They exist, everybody knows they exist, and so forth. I was wondering, do paladins have any sort of worldly authority as a result of being the acknowledged servants of said gods? For example, say my hypothetical paladin discovered that the mayor of a town was a corrupt jerk who'd been embezzling tax money and cutting deals with criminals and being generally naughty. If my character went straight to the mayor's house, kicked the door down and dragged him out, would the town guard, etc. just see this and go, "hey, he's a paladin of that god that we all worship, of course he's not lying"? I'm sure there's more to it than that, so...

If that were the case, you'd think every adventure module Paizo publishes would have Paladins making large scenes and everyone else saying "he must not be lying!" Truth is, they don't tend to work that way. They follow a higher calling than local laws, and if the city mayor was truly a monster they'd do something about it, but following a higher calling also means following bigger fish. Besides that, what happens if he turns out not to be an evil bastard and you've just broken into his home and publicly shamed him? Suddenly, you're no longer a paladin. The best way to play a paladin is to think of them less as "the world trusts them totally" and more like "Batman." They strive to do good, whatever the cost, but they still need to earn the public's trust and they need to be able to prove that they're right. In the case of a maniacal bad guy about to do something horrible, it's much easier to follow through with, but against someone like Walter White from Breaking Bad (a man with a family, ties to the city, and is regarded by the public as a good guy even though he's not), if you straight out kill him and say "it's because he's a bad guy" you're still going to be arrested by the town guard and hanged for murder.

Not to mention most evil guys are utterly corrupt. It's not uncommon to have PCs run from a town because they bribed the guards, or control a local force to punish those that would try to end their monopoly. If you, as a paladin, went about it rashly chances are the GM may have you indicted from the order, if you belong to one, because said lord spread false rumors. You wouldn't lose your paladin powers, that only happens if you do betray your code, but still you can't do that without preparation like powerful NPC allies in court/high positions and evidence. Path-CSI-finder so to speak. Not unless you are a lvl 20 paladin already known and whatnot.

Paladins are just as subject to the law of the land as everyone else. Even if the mayor was the most corrupt twisted bastard within 1000 miles, the Paladin would be breaking the law by making a beeline assault on him. Whenever the locals are going to enforce the law or not however is a different matter. If they outright hate him and would rather see the back of him, they're not going to lift a finger to help him. If they don't know about him or otherwise tolerate him, or believe in a fair trail no matter how evil you are, that Paladin is going to be up against serious opposition. Still, do you really think a sizable town can run itself without someone in office?

Good thing I checked, then. Didn't think of the "Batman" comparison--I somehow got the impression that being a paladin in Pathfinder was more like being a Jedi in the Star Wars universe. You know: you just come to a strange place, introduce yourself as Brother Jimmy, Holy Knight of the Divine Order of Iomedae, and the local authorities just welcome you in and immediately trust your judgement on everything. Actually, if it did work like that, I'd be a lot less interested. If you could simply steamroll bad guys with nothing but a word, the game would be over way too fast.

The problem is that in most campaign worlds "character classes" are far too common. Powerful NPCs, influential NPCs, ect. should not all have a "character class." They may have abilities, high hit points, magic, or tons of minions, but few should have a "class." That would make a paladin very rare and special indeed & yes, commoners would view a pally as a "man on a mission from god." BTW, I fully support the kick the castle in and drag the corrupt son of a bitch down town and make him beg the people for forgiveness. He should beg the peasants not to be hung from the nearest tree, run out of town, to redistribute his treasures, whatever. Then the pally can act as judge while the towns folk testify against him. Sounds fun. Go bat man! Laws? Who's law? The corrupt asshat's law that lives in the castle? Pfft, there is only one law for the paladin to fear- god's law. Go forth young pally and do good for the common man!

The more likely scenario is that the paladin would actually investigate the rumors of the mayor's corruption, probably take out his frustrations with violence against the thugs he's cutting deals with, and then bring evidence to the town's local version of law enforcement (or go to the mayor's superiors, as needed) to see that he is made to face justice. In other words, you're skipping the meat of a paladin's adventure and cutting to the end in my book. Before you arrest the crime lord, you have to have the evidence on him. Then you can go make the bust, but even then, you have to do it righteous and with local law. As far as the locals? Well, unless you're actually known in town and have a reputation with them, then they're going to treat you like any other well-armed stranger that blows through. This is where good works and charity can be useful at earning trust, and the reason paladins can seem like goody-goodies to the party's rogue.

Dickie said: The more likely scenario is that the paladin would actually investigate the rumors of the mayor's corruption, probably take out his frustrations with violence against the thugs he's cutting deals with, and then bring evidence to the town's local version of law enforcement (or go to the mayor's superiors, as needed) to see that he is made to face justice. In other words, you're skipping the meat of a paladin's adventure and cutting to the end in my book. Before you arrest the crime lord, you have to have the evidence on him. Then you can go make the bust, but even then, you have to do it righteous and with local law. Yeah, I was really hoping that the whole game wouldn't just boil down to "look, you're on a Mission From God, so whatever you say goes." That might be cool once, maybe, but just playing a bible-thumping Judge Dredd would get old fast. That's one of the reasons I got over Dark Heresy so quick. Dickie said: As far as the locals? Well, unless you're actually known in town and have a reputation with them, then they're going to treat you like any other well-armed stranger that blows through. This is where good works and charity can be useful at earning trust, and the reason paladins can seem like goody-goodies to the party's rogue. That actually brings up another potential issue I'm not clear on: if paladins are supposed to be endlessly charitable, helping everyone for free and giving all their money to the poor and so on, where do they get their gear? After all the morally-ambiguous characters I've had lately, I would actually like to play an outright hero, or at least somebody who's trying to be a hero, but it seems like that might become a problem sooner or later. Does the church issue new weapons and armor to paladins as they level up? If you're a member of this order of warrior-monks whose main purpose is to fight evil, I don't see why they wouldn't...

Paladins are on a mission from their god. If not, just play a fighter. Would a god really bother granting divine abilities to a mortal that was not doing his bidding? Would the church back a knight that upheld his god's tenants only when he wanted to? Really, just play a fighter or barbarian. All the stuff Dickie said about leading up to taking down bad guy- goes without saying. If the peasants are of the same religion there will be a level of trust/recognition, otherwise is to ignore the power and place of the church; that is unless the DM is looking at religion through 21st century lenses. Tithing, sacrifices, alms to the needy handle the charitable part- only excessive wealth is given away. Upgrade weapons/armor & maintain retainers/men at arms first; a paladin's deity does not want a feeble paladin.