Faction Creation

If we go the way you suggest Mark will I have to make the magic item with Blindsight?

Take a look and let me know what you think.

Michael S. said: If we go the way you suggest Mark will I have to make the magic item with Blindsight? Blindfighting was removed in 5e, which does frustrate a lot of people. Now, only the rogue gets something even similar to it... but at a very high level (somewhere around 14th).  True Sight is the only spell that I know of that grants the ability and it is a 6th level (11th class level) ability.  Granting it at any level lower could be detrimental to game dynamics.  It could be an item that you can create, but a gem of seeing costs 60,000 gp. 70% material cost would be 42,000 gp. So creating anything similar is probably a premature endeavor. Warlocks appear to be an exception as they get devil's sight at lower levels. 

DMs, The Gray Hands has one approval. If one DM could take the time to take a look at it and either give corrections to move forward or approval if it all looks good, that would be great.  Thanks

After looking at Mark's idea I saw some confusing parts. 1. Master of Dragons perk I understand that downtime and travel time is needed for that perk. The dexterity checks seems a little high for anyone. can you let it be lower and make it an acrobatics or athletics check. I will also say that this limitation to stay in those environments make this perk only limited to that area and besides OTS having a campaign in the snow I hardly know of any other DM go into that environment. To make this perk seem more avaible this would be exotic mount and lets say that you can summon him for a limited amount of time and you must wait wait at least a week before you can summon the creature again. 2. Friend of the watcher perk I was confused with the CR to the renown perk. If you can make it easier to understand it would be a good idea. I am also confused about the renown needed to hire another creature. Can we say that just spend downtime days to get another creature instead since it takes a long time to get to renown 5 to 6 (60 day am I right?). 3. Token of Ilmater perk I would ask if this magic piece will have a recharge time? I would also say that charm might be not that effective. I would only see it being used as stabilizing a down character. If you can add like a remove fear ability, increase the amount of health, or putting your ki into use with this magic item. Other than those things it seems alright.

Michael S. said: I would say to Mix the magic item creation with the Lord's Alliance. That perk gives out magical items that is within a certain budget. If we want we can fashion the ki perk to follow that idea. Where one can get that perk multiple times and get certain abilities as well as an increase to ki. Would that make it seem less OP? The reason that the Lord's Alliance has the Well-Equipped perk is because of this text... Backed by the wealthy and the privileged, they carry quality equipment (often disguised to appear common), and spellcasters tend to have a large number of scrolls with communication spells This information comes from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting version 3.5 (paragraph 2 of  Organizations of Faerun ). I am only pointing this out to once again emphasize that perks should not just be made up. As written in the guidelines in the OP, the perk must be presented somewhere in the lore of the faction.  Now it would appear that this perk comes up a lot and makes me wonder if it upsets the balance of the system and should be further limited. 

Michael S. said: After looking at Mark's idea I saw some confusing parts. 1. Master of Dragons perk I understand that downtime and travel time is needed for that perk. The dexterity checks seems a little high for anyone. can you let it be lower and make it an acrobatics or athletics check. I will also say that this limitation to stay in those environments make this perk only limited to that area and besides OTS having a campaign in the snow I hardly know of any other DM go into that environment. To make this perk seem more avaible this would be exotic mount and lets say that you can summon him for a limited amount of time and you must wait wait at least a week before you can summon the creature again. 2. Friend of the watcher perk I was confused with the CR to the renown perk. If you can make it easier to understand it would be a good idea. I am also confused about the renown needed to hire another creature. Can we say that just spend downtime days to get another creature instead since it takes a long time to get to renown 5 to 6 (60 day am I right?). 3. Token of Ilmater perk I would ask if this magic piece will have a recharge time? I would also say that charm might be not that effective. I would only see it being used as stabilizing a down character. If you can add like a remove fear ability, increase the amount of health, or putting your ki into use with this magic item. Other than those things it seems alright. For #1, the monk's proficiency modifier should not have been added. So the DC should actually be 20 since a 10th level monk has PB +4. As far as the creature goes, you cannot summon them in climates other than arctic. From the Monster Manual: Arctic Predators. Remorhazes live in arctic climes, preying on elk, polar bears, and other creatures sharing their territory. They can't tolerate warm weather , having adapted to the cold by generating a furnace-like heat within their bodies. When hunting, a remorhaz burrows deep below the snow and ice and lies in wait for the faint vibrations created by a creature moving above it. While hidden under the ice and snow, it can lower its body temperature so that it doesn't melt its cover. Also, from the Order of the Yellow Rose... Dwelling on the Glacier of the White Worm, the monks shared their home with a terrible beast: the remorhaz or white worm. [9] This was a massive, insectoid creature, some 20 feet (6.1 meters) long, aggressive and predatory, that could tunnel through ice and earth and generated extreme heat from its body. [10] However, the monks lived in harmony with the white worms, not in conflict, [9] and believed it symbolized the courage and determination of their order. [8] Thus they perfected the art of riding the remorhaz If you read further to the section on Rituals, it further explains that they perform this at the monastery itself and have to first capture the beast.  A monk who wished to challenge for the rank of Master of Dragons first had to undergo an initiation that involved an extraordinarily difficult test of skill and courage—to ride the remorhaz . This was on the one hand a test of their discipline but on the other a declaration of their devotion to St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred, a demonstration of their inner strength, courage, and determination needed to subdue the beast and ride mere inches away from death or terrible injury. [8] [9] [17] A monk who would attempt to ride a remorhaz was equipped with a simple lasso and a pair of magical leather-and-iron spurs of special design. They stood upon a certain rocky outcrop and waited for the white worm to slither past, at which point they tried to lasso it. If the monk missed with the lasso, then they could wait for another remorhaz to roll pass, but missing three times was marked as a failure . They could try again after one week, but those going for Master of Dragons had to wait and train until they felt up to the challenge again. No one could help them in this. I am not really sure how else one could interpret all of this.  Yes, it would be rarely usable. But for those that travel to the Spine of the World or elsewhere, it would be a lot of fun and would allow others to see what the Order of the Yellow Rose is all about.  I feel the need to remind you that all of this is not designed to give the PCs more powers and abilities. I feel that I have stressed this time and time again and it has become a major frustration to some of the DMs that this is not being understood. These factions are for detailing the PCs backrounds and goals in the Forgotten Realms. These are not for creating variants that appeal to us, but for detailing the fantasy world around us. Refer back to the OP for clarification on what Factions and Perks are for. 

For #2, this functions just as the other Exotic Mounts perks. It has 2 ways of maximizing the creature CR that can be used. Can you specify what you are confused about? Right now it is set that you may gain renown while spending downtime to find another creature. The alternative is to spend downtime without earning renown.

Lyndsey pointed out to me a few ways that Friend of the Watcher is OP. Mainly a 2nd level character with a giant owl. She is going to help me tweak that one out and then I will repost it. 

If you are at renown 5 and the beast is lost how long will it take to get another beast back if you first took this perk at renown 3? Could you make a chart that tells what CR level is related to the renown that has been earned?

3. Token of Ilmater perk I would ask if this magic piece will have a recharge time? I would also say that charm might be not that effective. I would only see it being used as stabilizing a down character. If you can add like a remove fear ability, increase the amount of health, or putting your ki into use with this magic item. The recharge is stated in the perk.  Token of Ilmater You possess a token of Ilmater that bears the holy symbol of a pair of white hands crossed and bound at the wrist with a blood-red cord. This token can be activated by using an action to touch a target while uttering "Imater protect me" to restore 1 hit point to the target. The token can be used twice per day. To make this fit 5e more. I can state that the token has 2 charges that recharge after a long rest.  What about... The token has 2 charges that recharge daily after a long rest. 

sounds better.

Michael S. said: If you are at renown 5 and the beast is lost how long will it take to get another beast back if you first took this perk at renown 3? Could you make a chart that tells what CR level is related to the renown that has been earned? The last sentence of the perk states: If the beast dies or otherwise wish to replace it, you must earn 3 points of renown in this faction before doing so I also included the only fraction that would be encountered.  (CR 1/2 at 3 renown It should otherwise be handled the same way as the druids wild shape ability. 20% of 5th level = CR 1, 20% of 10th level = CR 2, etc... This has to be changed though. It is currently too powerful. The beastmaster restricts to medium or smaller creatures for good reason. Since the monks oft befriend bears though, I would like large creatures to be included which will require some development. 

So if I took it this perk at renown 3, yet he dies at renown 7 I can get him at renown 10 which how long does that take me to get a pet back. I am saying it takes a long time. Otherwise if I am gaining more renown while working on a different perk and 3 renown has made it to 10 will I get the pet back and get another perk?

3. Token of Ilmater perk I would ask if this magic piece will have a recharge time? I would also say that charm might be not that effective. I would only see it being used as stabilizing a down character. If you can add like a remove fear ability, increase the amount of health, or putting your ki into use with this magic item. This would again be adding powers that do not exist in lore.  Here are the references: Some carried faith tokens of Ilmater. A faith token of Ilmater could produce a cure minor wounds orison twice a day, usually with the command words "Ilmater protect me" Minor wounds was a 3rd ed spell that restores 1 hit point.  It is also an item that is possessed by clerics, paladins, and other servants of Ilmater. It is not monk specific and should therefore not require ki points. This perk should be included in a Church of Ilmater faction if it was created. I am sure that other DMs that adding any other abilities to this would make equally or more powerful than a 1st level spell and therefore make it OP.  Remember that our goal here is to make sure the perks are not over-powered. There is no such thing as a perk that is not powerful enough as long as it adds new options that the PC did not have access to. So if you think a perk is not too powerful, it follows the lore of the faction, is not replacement dynamics, it should be suitable.

Michael S. said: So if I took it this perk at renown 3, yet he dies at renown 7 I can get him at renown 10 which how long does that take me to get a pet back. I am saying it takes a long time. Otherwise if I am gaining more renown while working on a different perk and 3 renown has made it to 10 will I get the pet back and get another perk? Yes, if that was the case, you would gain the new perk and get the companion back. You aren't technically gaining the perk an additional time. But in order to gain one, you have to show that are more responsible before others are going to gain your trust. In 3rd ed, there were cases that you could not even gain another because of your reputation of having one die on your watch. It probably would take a long time to regain one, but in most cases you would gain one that is more powerful. Losing a companion is tragic though. It is much worse than losing a familiar. For that reason, I have seen PCs leave exotic mounts behind during high risk situations.

Ok I guess I will leave the rest to DMs however Shinobu will not join this group. He is going back to roleplay to earn money. Had fun creating this group hopefully some monks will join them.

Oops... updated the prerequisites to... Lawful good or lawful neutral alignment ... as stated in the Order of the Rose. I had neutral good, yet monks are almost always lawful since they follow an order.

I knew nothing about when we started. Has been fun learning about them and figuring out how to fit them in. There are others out there... many others. I think Order of the Sun Soul and Order of the Even-Handed would probably be a bit more popular.  I am taking a break from factions after these two are done to work on other things for a bit though.

Michael S. said: I would say to Mix the magic item creation with the Lord's Alliance. That perk gives out magical items that is within a certain budget. If we want we can fashion the ki perk to follow that idea. Where one can get that perk multiple times and get certain abilities as well as an increase to ki. Would that make it seem less OP? Yes, that might work, but I would also limit it to 3 spells, due to the limited number of perks. I like Mark's idea of focusing on the nature of the faction, rather than the power of the monk tho. The companion one is very enticing, and the mount, while limited, does fit the description really well. However, I think limiting it to arctic conditions are a little unfair when compare d to other factions mount perks. Then again it is a remorhaz, and that's just cool. Perhaps we could change it, to will not enter a tropical or semi tropical climate, so that it may still be used in temperate locales. Not sure how to word it, but Waterdeep is in the north and of cooler temperatures. Perhaps a temperature requirement, so it could be used in all but summer time in a Waterdeep type climate?

Mark S. said: This information comes from the Forgotten Realms campaign setting version 3.5 (paragraph 2 of  Organizations of Faerun ). I am only pointing this out to once again emphasize that perks should not just be made up. As written in the guidelines in the OP, the perk must be presented somewhere in the lore of the faction.  Now it would appear that this perk comes up a lot and makes me wonder if it upsets the balance of the system and should be further limited.  I don't think this perk is a problem. The cost factor limits it to something that will be level appropriate. I think due to our limits on magic items as treasure, it seems to be a bigger perk than it actually is and thus appears to enable creators to add power gaining features to their faction. 

Mark S said .  I feel the need to remind you that all of this is not designed to give the PCs more powers and abilities. I feel that I have stressed this time and time again and it has become a major frustration to some of the DMs that this is not being understood. These factions are for detailing the PCs backrounds and goals in the Forgotten Realms. These are not for creating variants that appeal to us, but for detailing the fantasy world around us. Refer back to the OP for clarification on what Factions and Perks are for.  I feel the same way. Please avoid the temptation to comb through the factions to find what you perceive to be the most powerful perk, then give your creation four over powered perks or try to pack multiple benefits into each perk. That isn't the goal and will not be approved. 

Mark S. said: I knew nothing about when we started. Has been fun learning about them and figuring out how to fit them in. There are others out there... many others. I think Order of the Sun Soul and Order of the Even-Handed would probably be a bit more popular.  I am taking a break from factions after these two are done to work on other things for a bit though. Judea heads up, the sun soul is already available as a monastic tradition in scag

I have been wanting to try out a druid monk and this faction would be perfect when it's done.

Yeah... I would like to add Sun Soul since they are one of the most popular. That will probably be the next one I work on. They are also associated with Lathandar which is one of the most popular deities. 

Had to update the Master of Dragons to this... You may only take this perk while visiting the Citadel of the White Worm and must be 15th level, 10 of which must be monk/ranger.  It was an oversight on my part. The CR for creatures should never exceed 1/3 of the character's level otherwise it increases the PCs ECL by at least 1. Just another thing about this perk.  There was the option of just not adding this perk at all. I would rather do that than to change how it functions. Personally, I like the fact that there are perks that will be rarely ever used. This will make it extra special if ever taken. Having a bunch of PCs riding on the backs of remorhaz is not something I would ever want to see in the game. So instead of not including it, I added it thinking it would be extremely rare but made sure the faction has 5 other perks instead of the usual 3-4.  If we would rather stick with perks that will be suitable for general use, then we will end up losing some of the coolest pieces of lore and have major restrictions on what perks will be allowed. However, I can remove the perk if it is going to create issues. I don't see the need to add another to take its place though since there are already 5 others.

Order of the Yellow Rose I would be willing to add another that does add some ki powers, but they are going to be limited to "defenders of the physical and spiritual" world. IT covers the "5th element" not covered in monk elemental disciplines and would look something like this: Protector of Worlds You can use your ki points to fuel these additional ki features: Iron Shirt: As a reaction to an attack made against you, you can spend 1 ki point to create an invisible barrier of magical force to protect you. Until the start of your next turn, you have a +5 bonus to AC, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile. Chi Bubble: As an action, you can spend 7 ki points to enclose yourself inside a sphere of shimmering force. This effect requires concentration to maintain. Nothing—not physical objects, energy, or other spell effects—can pass through the barrier, in or out, though you can breathe there while inside. The sphere is immune to all damage, and while inside you can’t be damaged by attacks or effects originating from outside, nor can you damage anything outside it. The sphere is weightless and just large enough to contain you. You can use your action to push against the sphere’s walls and thus roll the sphere at up to half of your speed. Similarly, the globe can be picked up and moved by other creatures. A disintegrate spell targeting the globe destroys it without harming anything inside it. Ethereal Barrier: As an action, you can spend 9 ki point to create the effects of the  wall of force spell. The effect does nor require a material component but otherwise acts just as the spell, requiring concentration to maintain.  Ethereal Cage: As an action, you can spend 13 ki points to create the effects of a force cage spell. The effect does not require a material component but otherwise acts just as the spell. This ordeal drains you of your chi. You cannot regain ki points used for this effect until after meditating for a full day in a tranquil place filled with incense and candles. The cost of the special candles and exotic incense required for this mediation is 1,500 gp and must be provided by you. After spending one day of downtime performing this meditation, you regain the ki points that were spent producing this effect.  Other than fixing the Friend of the Watcher perk, this is all I have for the Order of the Yellow Rose.

Just a couple of notes about my last entry, so you don't have to do all of the work looking it up... The ki points required make the monk have to be the same level as a wizard casting the same spell effects. They are also limited to being able to produce those effects the same number of times that a wizard would before requiring a long rest.  Ethereal Cage is actually Force Cage which requires material components of 1,500 gp. That is why the meditation time and cost of candles and incense are required to regain those ki points. I thought it was more colorful this way while picturing the monk alone in a large sanctuary with candles and incense all around. Same effect though. The day of downtime meditating just adds color and makes up for the time that a wizard would have to take to collect components. 

Mark S. said: Had to update the Master of Dragons to this... You may only take this perk while visiting the Citadel of the White Worm and must be 15th level, 10 of which must be monk/ranger.  It was an oversight on my part. The CR for creatures should never exceed 1/3 of the character's level otherwise it increases the PCs ECL by at least 1. Just another thing about this perk.  There was the option of just not adding this perk at all. I would rather do that than to change how it functions. Personally, I like the fact that there are perks that will be rarely ever used. This will make it extra special if ever taken. Having a bunch of PCs riding on the backs of remorhaz is not something I would ever want to see in the game. So instead of not including it, I added it thinking it would be extremely rare but made sure the faction has 5 other perks instead of the usual 3-4.  If we would rather stick with perks that will be suitable for general use, then we will end up losing some of the coolest pieces of lore and have major restrictions on what perks will be allowed. However, I can remove the perk if it is going to create issues. I don't see the need to add another to take its place though since there are already 5 others. Just looked it up in the MM, and have a greater understanding, but I would add that if the character leaves to adventure in a warmer climate, they can recall their remorhaz upon their return to an arctic climate. Fair enough?

I also liked the protector of world's, but would rather limit it to iron shirt and Chi bubble.

As for friend of the watcher, how about adding that the companion can have no more than one of the following traits, large size category, flight speed, swim speed, etc. 

Agreed. I was thinking of adding some kind of "when returning to a cold climate, you can summon the remorhaz".  I felt Wall of Force and Force Cage were a bit over the top as well. They don't imbalance things, but I just don't feel they necessarily emulate the Order of the Yellow Rose. They are both traps; not defense. I will omit those. That is an interesting proposal on the companion. Lyn and I were just discussing it and I think I like your idea better than what we came up with... which was.. putting the same restrictions as either the druid OR ranger on types of creatures. Updating these now.

Lyn added that the creature may also not serve as a mount. This prevents small-sized characters from having a flying mount at 1st level. 

One more thing to consider, wouldn't members, particularly faction agents already know where the most well known of their temples is? I get it for the mounds, but maybe the other should be substituted for shelter of the faithful or Knightly Regard, since they are almost universally respected.

Mix said: One more thing to consider, wouldn't members, particularly faction agents already know where the most well known of their temples is? I get it for the mounds, but maybe the other should be substituted for shelter of the faithful or Knightly Regard, since they are almost universally respected. That does make more sense.  Upon review, the Citadel of the White worm is well enough known that people occasionally drop off an orphan on the steps. It is difficult to reach, but its location is obviously known.  I specifically like Shelter of the Faithful as that just kind of screams "monastery".  Thanks... making the adjustments now. :)

Here is the update...  Citadel of the White Worm You gain the Discovery background feature of the Hermit background for the purposes of knowing the location of the Watcher's Mound found around in the Earthspur Mountains of north Faerûn. If you use the Watcher’s Mound, you must leave something for others to use or lose renown. You also gain the background feature Shelter of the Faithful from the acolyte background. This feature applies to the Monastery of the Yellow Rose, also known as the Citadel of the White Worm I do have a question though. Shouldn't we specify the amount of renown lost and how much do you think makes sense? I think it should be significant since the Watchers will know that one of their own looted such a sacred place. I just have no idea how much that should be. 50% of all renown? Or a set number... like 10?

I would say it depends on what has been taken and what has been dropped off.

I would make it simple and say you lose the perk, and like the companion have to build renown up to regain it

Also what would one find over there?

They were campsites. There was usually a small cache of survival stuff. Preserved food, clean water, tinder box, etc.

Maybe they should leave rations, gold, or survival items.

Problem with losing the perk is that the perk allows you to know where it is. Kind of hard to forget that after you have known. How about... You are no longer welcome to the Watcher's Mound and will be confronted if you enter the area. You also lose 5 renown. Not sure though... tricky one.

I think that can work. You will no longer be welcome at the sights. As the Monks actively patrol these sights, this will be physically enforced. In addition you lose 5 renown with the Order of the Yellow Rose.

I'll vote yes for the gray hand. 

Mike said: I'll vote yes for the gray hand.  Awesome. That makes 2. I will make them visible to everyone.

In an effort to clean up the forums a bit, I am closing this thread and moving its content to a new location.