CLOSED: Exploratory Committee: Multi Tier game

The world is multi-textural. Things happen on one level that drift down, affecting all the levels below. What if there were a game like that? What if there were a game where the actions of the Gods (a`la Gods and Monsters) directed the actions of the Mythic Heroes, which in turn trickled down into the lives of mere mortals? I'm imagining a game with more than one GM. Optimally three GMS. One for the Gods, one for the Heroes, and one for the Mortals. Using a trickle down model, the Gods would act first. If we guarantee two stories at each level, we can create a scenario where everyone gets to play at every level at least once. Is there any interest? Can I get an Amen for the Gods and their minions?

There is definitely interest. Since Fate has faster character creation this would work well. Maybe there could be some trickle up too. The actions of some mortals might affect heroes which could theoretically affect gods? Probably in less obvious ways, but it would still be there.

Another excellent reason to run at least two cycles of the saga. I can certainly see that level of feedback occurring. Perhaps it could be part of the changing of the guard for GM's.

This certainly sounds like an itneresting game to try out. A bit hard to imagine playing it, but I figure I have not played enough FATE to really see it. Still I'd be interested in seeing it play out.

I can see it working in a couple of different ways. The structurally simplest would be to run a Gods and Monsters tale in its entirety, take the results of that and use it as the basis for the Mythic Heroes story, then allow the Mortals to deal with the consequences. If you want to get more in-depth and detail oriented, the Gods play until something happens that triggers a Mythic Hero story, at which point they begin their adventures. The Mortals would similarly take up their story when it is appropriate to do so. This setup would not work well in a multi GM game in my opinion. Too much risk of the story deviating wildly out of control before the Gods' tale ends, and it would be harder to orchestrate where the tale ends. Initial set up would involve the GM's getting together and working out a campaign Aspect and Theme. This stage would be seeking only the broadest of interpretations to begin. Once those are established, the players would get into the conversation, refining the Issues, Faces and Places for each part of the game. For the sake of brevity, I would recommend each part of the tale do their character and world refinement right before they are about to begin play. Not only will that streamline the process, but it will better enable the games to adapt to what has gone before. Each GM would be wholly responsible for their own part of the overall saga, although some consultation between them would help keep things unified. As always when discussing a FATE game, these are suggestions. I am open to other ideas as to how best to make this work.

I don't think the three adventures should be planned beforehand though. I think the results of the gods tier game should be what the heroes tier GM uses to build their adventure. The same way for the heroes actions and the mortals game.

Absolutely. It was never my intention to try and plot it all out ahead of time. I am merely suggesting all GMs have similar themes.

Interesting. I'd probably reduce the scope down a bit due to possible scheduling issues between multiple GMs and game groups and do it with one GM and two characters per player, one hero and the other one of the other players' hero's god. Each hero would be the representative of a god and have an Aspect that calls upon their god, which allows the players to invoke their god (played by another player) into the mortal realm, then allows the players to transfer play to the gods realm where they play their god characters. It makes sense that the heroes would be built with Fate Core and the gods with FAE, owing to their mercurial nature. /Matt

personally I feel to call it a tier and have gods go first and such kinda makes it like the gods matter the most and then heroes... if that's what you want and mean by "tier" then all power to you, but personally: I wouldn't like to be a mortal player in a system like that (even if some of the point is "at the mercy of the gods whims" or something like that for the mortals)  more fun if the heroes and mortal can influence the gods. in short every group influence the other depending on what they do.

CP, I understand your concerns. There are two primary reasons to have a tiered game. The first is for clarity of storytelling. If each strata plays a complete story in turn, it makes it easier to coordinate multiple stories. Having the gods go first reflects the fact that they have a broader scope then mortals pretty much by definition, and thus set  the backdrop in place through their actions. That's in line with what gods do. Once the stage is set, it doesn't really matter what order the other tiers go in, but having the mythic heroes and mortals play at the same time risks making the mortals totally irrelevant, which is not at all what I'm looking for, and sums up the second reason for the tiers. That, and the mythic heroes will, pretty much by definition, have different priorities than the mortals, being to a certain extent extensions of divine power. I really like the idea of the actions of the mortals having an effect on the divine plane. I can even see an argument that only mortals can possibly alter the plans of the gods. (Isn't that what Free Will is for?) I'd love to hear suggestions on how to do it mechanically. The simplest way involves through the divine Stations, but large numbers of mortals should be able to alter Regions as well, and maybe even through their actions shift the Intention of the deities they involve themselves with. Perhaps a Will track, reflecting the directed power of (for the sake of argument) humanity? As they accumulate Will, they can use it to shift Intention? Or is there another way, more interactive and immediate? Perhaps a new stat for communities, or a different system for ruling that interaction, and have that reflected in the mortal tale? I don't know, but if you've a mind, I'd love for you to help me figure it out. Matt, you are absolutely right. It's an ambitious project, and even if I get enough people interested, it's very possible I'll have to scale it back. But we won't know unless we try. I am as much of a realist as any gamer can be, and am willing to adjust the concept as much as necessary to  make something happen. This as is represents the dream scenario. Thanks for the feedback. I agree the mortals should play out in FATE Core, just to add depth to their characters.

Hello Chris, I'm sorry, I hope that I haven't been discouraging as that was not my intent. I'm just looking at how I would run this because it's a fantastic idea - gods and heroes, interacting, each having adventures that spill one over the other. Very much  Matt Wagner's Mage: The Hero Discovered and Mage: The Hero Defined -esque feel. /Matt

Matt, you were in no way discouraging, but I appreciate you're taking the time to make sure. You raised good points with respect, and I take them in the spirit they were offered. I'm glad you like the idea. :)

Hmmm... This is an intriguing concept, though unless you have a Cadre of GMs who are extremely good at improvising the story as they go, the logistics of truly running the games in parallel are impractical.  There are a few possible session frameworks that could get things working assuming you actually managed to get the scheduling working.  For the sake of listing them I will be using an example plot line though this can generally be replaced with other plots Antagonist Divine/divines takes actions against the Divines.  Divines marshal their forces and send out the heroes Mythic Heroes depart on their divine mission, Stopping in City before departing for the Confrontation with the antagonist Mythic Heroes Antagonistic Cultists begin putting plans in motion at City, Mortals come together to put an end to the plot. Direct Continuation of 3, Mortals face off with the cultists. Mythic Heroes face off with their counterparts, The outcome of the Mortal sessions directly impacts the challenges they face here. Resolve the conflict of the divines, The Fate of the Mythic heroes directly impacts the challenges faced here. To put things a bit more simply, In any tale of divine conflict, rarely should it occur that the actions of the divines themselves directly and demonstrably impact the Mortals as this introduces all sorts of plot holes (For example, why doesn't the evil god just strike down the Mortals opposing them?).  On the reverse, One would typically expect that for the Mortals to directly impact the Divines they would need to do something truly spectacular and/or stupid.  Most of the interaction between the three tiers of your game would have to filter through the Mythic Heroes though you need to be careful not to have one of the tiers micromanaging another.

You may want to look at the Fate Worlds book Romance in the Air for a model.  It is an alternate-history Europe where people developed extensive lighter-than-air airships and other steampunk technology in what is the Victorian Era to us (sort of like Space 1889 but not leaving Earth).  The game is supposed to be played with a couple of rounds resembling Diplomacy where countries are treated like characters.  Attack and Defense actions are obviously large-scale war, but Overcome and Create an Advantage represent trade advantages, diplomatic coups, etc.  Each action, each country Aspect, has an effect on the setting and the "little people", much like in the movie Doctor Zhivago where the struggle for Communism tosses people around like popcorn.  They have to live and have adventures on the character scale as a result of what the countries were up to. Now, if you adopted the system where you used gods and their domains as the big country-like characters, you'd have a two-tier game.

This would go great until the Gods, a group still made of players, miss a week.

Anyone willing to entertain the idea of helping me run this type of game, please PM me. Time and day are highly negotiable.