New Creator. First token set release: Legions of Yethain

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Eloquin
Plus
Marketplace Creator
https://marketplace.roll20.net/browse/set/1860/eloquins-battles-legions-of-yethain My goal is to create large unit token packs for war gamers, or players wishing to get that 'Epic' battle feel for their game.   I am hoping to come out with a new token set every month representing a unique race or culture. Here is an old infographic I made to help get a sense of the scale the tokens are meant to represent 
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Andrew (Halfling Gypsy)
Pro
Marketplace Creator
I am always amazed more TTWargames aren't played on Roll20.
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This is actually pretty fucking cool.   Though, where are the hextiles?  Do we need to go find our own? Also, maybe have three sets of unit density, but in hex form.  It gets a bit cumbersome when you're moving components of one hex (like archers left and right), but would be nice to show unit weakness with different tokens. That hex group of spears would be like 'most dense', but 'less dense' could be like missing 50% of the units in the hex, and 'least dense' could be like 25% density.  (you already have the dead one already!) I am interested to see where this goes with more factions/unit types.
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Eloquin
Plus
Marketplace Creator
Jake M. said: This is actually pretty fucking cool.   Though, where are the hextiles?  Do we need to go find our own? Also, maybe have three sets of unit density, but in hex form.  It gets a bit cumbersome when you're moving components of one hex (like archers left and right), but would be nice to show unit weakness with different tokens. That hex group of spears would be like 'most dense', but 'less dense' could be like missing 50% of the units in the hex, and 'least dense' could be like 25% density.  (you already have the dead one already!) I am interested to see where this goes with more factions/unit types.   Jake,   Thanks for the feedback!  1. My original art portfolio in this style is all for custom horizontal hex dimensions that don't align well with roll 20. There are already a  TON of hex sets on roll 20 , and this token set will work with any of them. I would rather spend my time developing the tokens, it is extremely time consuming as is without the added onus of developing a tile set as well.  I am not ruling it out for the future, but for the present I would like to spent my time on what I think people will enjoy more, being the token set. 2. Any map or image on roll 20 can already be converted into a hexagonal grid! Also, you can convert tokens to have  multiple images linked to the same token , meaning you can have every state of each unit quickly changeable. 3.I agree on the 'density' point. I will include it in my next set!  Thanks again!
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Ziechael
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Sheet Author
API Scripter
I occasionally like to throw large scale battles into my DnD games and I can see this set getting a lot of use, nice work. Can't wait until there is a variety of sets to help me decide who is going to war with whom next lol
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Eloquin
Plus
Marketplace Creator
Thanks! I am going for 'unique' cultures that are close enough to dnd lore as makes no difference, up next is Ogre/hobgoblin heavy infantry!
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Ah yeah, I was just curious about the hex tiles!  I actually have a couple really good sets, and you're right, they do not play well in roll20.  I use Tiled to compile and then bring an image over. Also, I had the rollable tables in mind when I thought of the unit density thing. Another possible idea is different colors in case we have a lot of human on human action. (I'd imagine a simple change of tabard color)
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Edited 1502306689
MeditatingMunky
Pro
Marketplace Creator
I love these tokens! Love me some war strategy! As for hex tiles and roll20, I do wish you could just set the size you wish to import tiles from your library to the table. That would solve everything. The issue I've seen is if you drag from the purchased library, it comes out as a 70x70px image, which is the default size to a 1x1 unit on a normal square grid, but the hex space is not70x70. The wiki says its like 89x89px or something around there, but I found my hex tiles to fit in at 95x95 or 96x96 pixels per tile (there's a little overlap on the outside for tiles that have an overhang like trees or mountains). So sadly, the end user has to resize every tile by entering in the pixel size in advanced settings or using ALT to size every tile individually. That can be a huge pain. That's why I made my tiles compatible to Hex Kit, so I could make maps there and import the map into Roll20 to align it to the grid there (if you haven't checked out that application, check it out, its amazing how well it works- plus it's made by Cecil Howe, the artist behind that hex set linked above in chat). I do however use some select tiles in Roll20 to make keys on for the random encounters for that area (I'll put a character journal attached to the tile with clickable macros for my generators and stuff so all I have to do is SHIFT DOUBLE CLICK and press a macro, and all of my work is done for me) as well as some tokens with vision attached for the players view of the map. That seems to work really well and really speeds up game play. All in all, I love hex tiles, they make for great games! They can be a lot of work to set up properly, but the end result is top notch!
Eloquin said: Thanks! I am going for 'unique' cultures that are close enough to dnd lore as makes no difference, up next is Ogre/hobgoblin heavy infantry! This interests me a lot.  I'm going to be converting the Red Hand of Doom to 5e and running it in a VTT.  If the hobgoblin art is versatile, I'll be buying it just for that!
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Eloquin
Plus
Marketplace Creator
MeditatingMunky said: I love these tokens! Love me some war strategy! As for hex tiles and roll20, I do wish you could just set the size you wish to import tiles from your library to the table. That would solve everything. The issue I've seen is if you drag from the purchased library, it comes out as a 70x70px image, which is the default size to a 1x1 unit on a normal square grid, but the hex space is not70x70. The wiki says its like 89x89px or something around there, but I found my hex tiles to fit in at 95x95 or 96x96 pixels per tile (there's a little overlap on the outside for tiles that have an overhang like trees or mountains). So sadly, the end user has to resize every tile by entering in the pixel size in advanced settings or using ALT to size every tile individually. That can be a huge pain. That's why I made my tiles compatible to Hex Kit, so I could make maps there and import the map into Roll20 to align it to the grid there (if you haven't checked out that application, check it out, its amazing how well it works- plus it's made by Cecil Howe, the artist behind that hex set linked above in chat). I do however use some select tiles in Roll20 to make keys on for the random encounters for that area (I'll put a character journal attached to the tile with clickable macros for my generators and stuff so all I have to do is SHIFT DOUBLE CLICK and press a macro, and all of my work is done for me) as well as some tokens with vision attached for the players view of the map. That seems to work really well and really speeds up game play. All in all, I love hex tiles, they make for great games! They can be a lot of work to set up properly, but the end result is top notch! Thanks!.   What I end up doing to create hex boards in roll 20 is resize a bunch, then use copy-paste, since a copy-pasted tile or token does not need to be resized.  The hexagon I used as a guide for my set came straight out of Cecil-Howe's Hex-Kit. I was not aware that hex-Kit was a application as well! I will certainly have to check that out, as it would save a ton of time to do things the way you outlined too. I have not tried playing with clickable macros, but that certainly sounds worth messing around with.  The overlapping thing is a huge problem for me, I would like to make pike formations and isometric mountains and the like, but am hesitant to make larger token sizes, since I would rather keep everything standardized.
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Eloquin
Plus
Marketplace Creator
Jake M. said: Ah yeah, I was just curious about the hex tiles!  I actually have a couple really good sets, and you're right, they do not play well in roll20.  I use Tiled to compile and then bring an image over. Also, I had the rollable tables in mind when I thought of the unit density thing. Another possible idea is different colors in case we have a lot of human on human action. (I'd imagine a simple change of tabard color) I thought about just re-coloring everything, maybe I will for the next set, but It seems kinda dishonest to beef up the number of tokens in a set with cheap tricks like that instead of original artwork. Maybe that is just me being silly though. Thoughts?
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Dsurion
Marketplace Creator
Just think of recolors as "extra" tokens, for example posting your current pack but with 2-3 color of armies (like red shields, green shields and brown shields). This way its only a tiny bit more work, but the buyer now has 3 different armies to use. In my case i usually do 2 colors for each token, but sometimes i do alternate outfit using the same base (its easier for me since i work with a low amount of pixels :P) For example Recolor Same base, different outfit
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Eloquin said: I thought about just re-coloring everything, maybe I will for the next set, but It seems kinda dishonest to beef up the number of tokens in a set with cheap tricks like that instead of original artwork. Maybe that is just me being silly though. Thoughts? Yeah, what Dsurion said. You have an fair price point at $5.  Now if you had double the tokens in there (even if just from different colors) it would make it an even fairer price.  Now if you doubled the tokens by color and then doubled the price, it would be a  cheap trick. Try to minimize your work with the recolor, it doesn't need to be crazy.
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Eloquin
Plus
Marketplace Creator
Dsurion said: Just think of recolors as "extra" tokens, for example posting your current pack but with 2-3 color of armies (like red shields, green shields and brown shields). This way its only a tiny bit more work, but the buyer now has 3 different armies to use. In my case i usually do 2 colors for each token, but sometimes i do alternate outfit using the same base (its easier for me since i work with a low amount of pixels :P) For example Recolor Same base, different outfit         Awesome feedback, Thanks!  I will certainly attempt this. If you don't mind answering a few questions about your process, I could use a little help. I don't use layers on my images, for obvious reasons: The source .psd for this image is all one layer.  How would you recommend I recolor this image in photoshop, without recoloring the skin tones at the same time?  Also, am I able to re-upload and replace the same token set on roll 20 if I add things to this set? Thanks, also:I own some of your sets, Love them!
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The Aaron
Pro
API Scripter
Regarding reupload, you can email roll20: team@roll20.net  I know they've done that in the past for corrections or missing items.  I imagine expanding a set to get it "just right" wouldn't be a problem.
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Dsurion
Marketplace Creator
In photoshop, you can use the Magic Wand tool (without the "continuity" check) to select everything (shift+click to add to a selection) of a specific color, then CTRL+U to change the color-brightness-contrast of it. example For your next sets, I never used it, but after you finish a token (with all the layers and stuff) you can make something called "Smart object", which is a single layer that contains all the information withing, then you can just duplicate that to make the armies, save the token, and if you doble click on the Smart object layer, it should open that as it was before (with all the layers and stuff), change things/color in there, and it should change (if im not mistaken) all the other clones of it, so you end up with a small amount of layers, but you keep the "original" soldier with all the info in it. Let me know if i explained it right :P.
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Eloquin
Plus
Marketplace Creator
Dsurion said: In photoshop, you can use the Magic Wand tool (without the "continuity" check) to select everything (shift+click to add to a selection) of a specific color, then CTRL+U to change the color-brightness-contrast of it. example For your next sets, I never used it, but after you finish a token (with all the layers and stuff) you can make something called "Smart object", which is a single layer that contains all the information withing, then you can just duplicate that to make the armies, save the token, and if you doble click on the Smart object layer, it should open that as it was before (with all the layers and stuff), change things/color in there, and it should change (if im not mistaken) all the other clones of it, so you end up with a small amount of layers, but you keep the "original" soldier with all the info in it. Let me know if i explained it right :P. I can't believe I have been doing it the hard way for years. You just tripled my output! =) Thank you so much for taking the time to walk me through that!. I never even knew about the 'Contiguous' checkmark, I was manually selecting everything. Facepalm. Recoloring this set tonight!
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Eloquin
Plus
Marketplace Creator
The Aaron said: Regarding reupload, you can email roll20: team@roll20.net  I know they've done that in the past for corrections or missing items.  I imagine expanding a set to get it "just right" wouldn't be a problem. Thanks! The team seems crazy swamped and busy all the time, I feel bad about bothering them. I'll make sure and get it right this time.
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The Aaron
Pro
API Scripter
Things will probably calm down after GenCon next week. =D
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MeditatingMunky
Pro
Marketplace Creator
I have a few corrections myself on some of my packs and have just been waiting for the Roll20Con, Summer Holidays, New Devs and Helpertons being hired, and GenCon to get out of the way. Even being how busy this past few months have been and with all the new faces on the team, they have still been extremely timely and helpful. As for the Hex layouts, I can tell that you have your outline set to the border at the top of the V. I originally built mine that way as well, and after talking with Cecil, I ran a Batch resize as a Photoshop action to give my tiles that extra space for overlap on the tops. Here's a template that you could easily use to build your tokens inside, and it has the overlap in I was talking about. It gives room for the overlap of trees, mountains, pike-men spears etc. What I wound up doing was building my tiles inside of this, then selecting the inner area with the Magic Wand Tool, and reversing the selection (CTRL+SHIFT+I) then deleting the excess from the tile below (for grass water and tiles like that), and with objects like trees and the such, I just didn't delete the excess space. When created like that, it made the files all the same size (tiles and objects) so they all come in and are to be set at the same size.
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MeditatingMunky
Pro
Marketplace Creator
And for my final food for thought, with recoloring and adding variant tiles (with lights/without, Decorated/Blank, recolors, different weapons on tokens) I have always been a fan of some re-colored tokens, especially with common guards and such. The rule of thumb I've always used is to create a base layout of what I'd expect in a particular set, and as an added bonus, recoloring tokens or adding variant tiles or maps is a bonus. Recoloring with the purpose of bulking up a set is one thing, but taking a completed set and adding variation is a total different subject, and I'd say if it's not that much of an issue to do it, then go for it! It can add value to the product, though I make it clear by saying this set of 400 tiles has 100 tiles in 4 variations. I haven't had much feedback on it so I'm not sure how the average user feels about it, but several of my sets have a few variations inside, but the total number of original (not rehashed) tiles is still a full set.
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Eloquin
Plus
Marketplace Creator
MeditatingMunky said: I have a few corrections myself on some of my packs and have just been waiting for the Roll20Con, Summer Holidays, New Devs and Helpertons being hired, and GenCon to get out of the way. Even being how busy this past few months have been and with all the new faces on the team, they have still been extremely timely and helpful. As for the Hex layouts, I can tell that you have your outline set to the border at the top of the V. I originally built mine that way as well, and after talking with Cecil, I ran a Batch resize as a Photoshop action to give my tiles that extra space for overlap on the tops. Here's a template that you could easily use to build your tokens inside, and it has the overlap in I was talking about. It gives room for the overlap of trees, mountains, pike-men spears etc. What I wound up doing was building my tiles inside of this, then selecting the inner area with the Magic Wand Tool, and reversing the selection (CTRL+SHIFT+I) then deleting the excess from the tile below (for grass water and tiles like that), and with objects like trees and the such, I just didn't delete the excess space. When created like that, it made the files all the same size (tiles and objects) so they all come in and are to be set at the same size. Thank you so much for the tips! I often worry about standardization and duplication being an issue down the line, so I am trying to nail down the correct method right from the start, and your professional advice is much appreciated in that respect. Here  is what I have been doing, the template hex is one of Cecil's that I have been using as a reference. The units are meant to stick out a little isometrically, like your trees etc, Most if not all of my tokens in fact are meant to overlap. I would like to make units with much more vertical dimensions, as I am a huge fan of the feeling of a large object actually appearing to have vertical dimensions. I would like to resize the image-canvas for taller tokens, but I am worried they will not meet R20's requirements. I love your method for 'stamping' tokens with that hex template, thank you for sharing it, I will certainly use it!  
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Eloquin
Plus
Marketplace Creator
MeditatingMunky said: And for my final food for thought, with recoloring and adding variant tiles (with lights/without, Decorated/Blank, recolors, different weapons on tokens) I have always been a fan of some re-colored tokens, especially with common guards and such. The rule of thumb I've always used is to create a base layout of what I'd expect in a particular set, and as an added bonus, recoloring tokens or adding variant tiles or maps is a bonus. Recoloring with the purpose of bulking up a set is one thing, but taking a completed set and adding variation is a total different subject, and I'd say if it's not that much of an issue to do it, then go for it! It can add value to the product, though I make it clear by saying this set of 400 tiles has 100 tiles in 4 variations. I haven't had much feedback on it so I'm not sure how the average user feels about it, but several of my sets have a few variations inside, but the total number of original (not rehashed) tiles is still a full set.   I like what you are saying about ''Bonus content' I guess I feel like I have a solid base for a set, and anything else I add could be considered 'icing', in that respect I don't feel as bad about 'padding the stats' on my set with redunant content, especially since it will be useful to people who like the set.