Trading: Experienced DM for GPs

Looking for people that will pay for something they can get for free?

Happens all the time.

Just tossing this in here, but if someone wants a really cool player playing in their campaign? PM me and I'll send you my data, 10€ per session should do.

As a player I would be more inclined to tip a GM than to agree to pay ahead of time. I understand it takes away guaranteed income (so might be an issue if you want to be a full-time GM), but I feel a lot more people would be comfortable paying some amount of money after they enjoyed the game. Then they could pay an amount that corresponds with their enjoyment. I have used the pay-what-you-want approach for non-gaming related services and sometimes I am in awe how much people choose to pay (for every person that paid something like $5/hr there were two or three who would pay over $20/hr). This approach might be a little shaky if you want to go full-time, but if you are just looking for some supplementary income or money to expand your resources as a GM that could work. Depending on what game you play, purchasing all of those resources can get spendy, so for a broke GM, I can certainly understand a desire for fundraising (I prefer not to think about the kind of money some of my friends put into D&D 3.5, only to switch to Pathfinder and purchase all of those books, add in adventure paths and modules, and it can add up to quite a bit). I can also extrapolate from personal experience and say that there might be a good chance people will tip for a D&D game. I have had a player offer to purchase mentor status for me (I had to decline since my work schedule is chaotic and I can't guarantee how much longer the game will run, and sometimes have to cancel the weekly sessions), and have had people offer to buy beers in the past (for in-person games). I have to opt out, since I generally disagree with the GM entertainer/Player consumer viewpoint. I think the players also have a responsibility to make the game good by playing interesting characters, developing them, and doing interesting things in general. But it seems that many people here think of the GM like a job (I honestly wouldn't do it if I thought of it like that), and I suppose if it feels like work, and you are still going to do it, why not charge?

Quoting Sentai "But saddly were not getting Gary Gygax, were not getting Chris Perkins. I think this also goes to when money comes in to play. Unless there is a verification system or a registered DM's list then your paying for something with no gaurentee (not that you buy everything with Gaurentees anymore)." No offense, but I don't see either thing happening. Once there is a "validation system" or a "registered DM list", Roll20 opens itself to a whole host of potential, unnecessary legal stuff. I think the burden of proof about whether a GM is a good GM, worthy of pay, and that the players who participate in their games will get what they pay for, is up to the GM to provide. The best way I see that happening is for the GM-for-hire to provide their potential customers video of their game sessions, free intro-sessions for new-comers to "test the waters" (because sometimes GMs and Players don't click) and testimony from those who have played actually in their games attesting to the GM-for-hire's skills. All of this, off-site, on a place separate from Roll20, to establish the GM-for-hire is an independent third party vendor who has no formal affiliation with Roll20. Judging from the Terms and Services, I think this would probably satisfy most of the bases.

Xyld said: No offense, but I don't see either thing happening. Once there is a "validation system" or a "registered DM list", Roll20 opens itself to a whole host of potential, unnecessary legal stuff. I agree with that completely. I never said it would be a perfect system, but there needs to be some form of system and even then, there could potentially be problems. The whole situation is still new, untested and shakey at best at this point. Tree Ant said: I can also extrapolate from personal experience and say that there might be a good chance people will tip for a D&D game. I have had a player offer to purchase mentor status for me (I had to decline since my work schedule is chaotic and I can't guarantee how much longer the game will run, and sometimes have to cancel the weekly sessions), and have had people offer to buy beers in the past (for in-person games). We do this right now. My groups Campaign is Streamed on twitch from 2-3 views mine included (I'm the DM) and we have a donation link at the bottom of our streams. I have a dontation link up for everything I do because if someone wants to give me money for something I do, then thats great. If they don't or they don't have the money to do that, then thats still great that they watch my content. It's been succesful. I've had donations before for the content I produce. I've not once charged for it. Thats not to say I wouldn't offer something thats Payed content, or that I don't think my content could get to the point of it bieng payed for but just that this started off as a hobby (DMing and doing my content) and I would love it to be full time and I am actively trying to make it full time, but this isn't YouTube / Twitch and this isn't Valve with Steam / TF2. This is a completely new system that like Xyld said would most likely take a 3rd party to facilitate. I don't think Roll20 is in the business to create for-hire DM's. While they could provide a basis or "patch" their ToS to allow for something like this akin to something that Valve does is possible, I don't think it is likely.

I think our main concern should be the protection of the players and the only way I see that happening is with: Some sort of review system. Some sort of therd party payment system (to alow for refunds and that sort of thing).

A Third part system would be the best but does someone have the drive to achieve this? Personally, that would be a cool system to develop. I would love to, but it would take a team of dedication. Roll20 is established, they could have a specific devision of this.

Alex L. said: I think our main concern should be the protection of the players and the only way I see that happening is with: Some sort of review system. Some sort of third party payment system (to alow for refunds and that sort of thing). Shouldn't be too hard to do. You should only pay people for stuff if you know their real name and some basic business details. No one (well, no one with any sense) would hire a web designer on an internet forum called "xX_HTMLViper_Xx", but they might hire one called Duncan Smith who had a flashy website with a portfolio of work on it and a load of decent reviews somewhere on the internet.

PayPal would work well for security, but you would do something like pay after. I think pay after session would work well for long campaigns since the player can't continue without paying for the previous session. It puts the risk on the GM, but I think it would be manageable as long as you can keep customers ( which you should be able to do anyway if you are good enough to justify charging).

I'll drop in here later and address some of the comments that I'd like to touch on, but for now, before we get too far down the "can we develop a place where DMs can get paid for money" path, I would like to see if this is something that interests players; the original intention of this was to see if there was enough demand to charge for the service. Very generally, would a player be willing to pay money for a GM? Thanks again for all the insight, everyone! Best, TrojanKnight

To answer your question directly, TrojanKnight - sure, I would, but conditionally.

Oh, sorry about that; I would not pay (other than perhaps strings-attached money that could only be spent on gaming expenses).

Jumping in from above: Not only would I pay for a good GM, I have paid for it. I have bought my friends all the core books for Hero System and Champions Universe because I wanted to play Champions. I bought my brother a Mentor membership so he could GM without me looking at all the adds. My wife even donated big $$ to a kickstarter for the sole reason that she knew how awesome it would be to me to have Steve Long (from the Star Trek & Champions lines) gm a game for me. All in all I pay a lot of money for my hobby and when it is working well and I am enjoying myself it is worth every single penny no matter if it is for a $5.00 all in one PDF game or a $120 three core book game. On Current angle: I would only ever pay for GM'ing online through an unknown on a pay after scenario. After all, I would be very flustered to send someone $30 in pay-pal only to log in and find them not available. I would also have a very high expectation for performance. if I sat in the demo games and it was mediocre, I would not follow into the other games. If I saw the quality of the games go down hill fast after the demo then I would stop using the service. PS: I would also expect the person supporting the game to be a Mentor so their would be no adds and hopefully a set up and functional API. Then I could learn to use the API tool for my own games.

To kind of touch through all of the comments since ive been gone. Pay Pal isnt great security, you can only appeal so much, but if someone was setting up a pay service you would be registered to PayPal or Google Wallet as a vendor and would have to abide by their ToS regarding services rendered / returns. You would also need a site to hold accountable or facilitate the rules, which in a digital space is harder than it looks. As far as if someone would. I would not probably purchase a DM's services, but thats because usually im the DM. Would others? Sure, but I don't forsee there bieng enough of a market for a website to want to make it their whole mission, hence why I suggested a division of Roll20, but the current people have enough on their plates, so I honestly doubt they're going to want to do this. As far as making sure every party is satisified. I could see a player has X amount of time after a campaign has been played and he or she has paid to be able to rate / give feedback on the DM. Maybe make it 100 or so characters minimum for a review / feedback and maybe a 1 or 2 "on a scale of 1-5" or "1-10" but even then, there is no gaurentee of the Player to give feedback, then give positive or decent feedback to better yourself from. You could charge half up front, half after? The other alternative would to have a reputable site like Roll20 have a "registered DM's list". A list of DM's that are approved and registered for their specific field of game. They have been signed off on and here are their strengths. X DM prefers more roleplaying and story while Y DM prefers a bit more combat with a quicker pace.

This isn't something I'd ever use, but I don't see the harm in it. For people who can't ever seem to be able to get in a game due to scheduling or popularity issues, it might be worth a few bucks. I can even see the value in having a sort of test-drive for a system before you dump a bunch of money on books and materials. However, I wouldn't want someone new to the hobby to get the impression that this was the default method for getting into a game. I'm also leery of GM and player ratings or "approved" lists for any reason.

When I first viewed this topic a couple days ago, I was a bit appalled at the idea of charging people to enjoy the content that I was creating, as I was enjoying their participation and equal effort in playing in our world. I view D&D as a mutual benefit between the Players and DM. The rewards of seeing something you've worked on for quite sometime being experienced and enjoyed by others is priceless. But then I began to think about it more. Putting myself in his shoes the idea began to evolve, I spend Hours upon Hours crafting this world. (I am currently reaching about 50 hours of time invested in this current campaign I am about to launch. How out of line would it be to ask for a fee to provide the services of giving players a Unique, Well built and unlimited amount of enjoyment and adventure? People pay to read books, watch movies, listen to music. All of these are creations of the mind through that of talented people in their own specific genre. If there is a demand, even small there is a market. I would go one step further and provide something back besides just the sessions. I am a writer/author and would think chronicling the adventure the players partake in and ultimately transforming into a written story in the form of a book for each of the players would be AMAZING. I would love to have a few books of previous campaigns I played in. I think to approach this the proper way is to offer a trial of sessions to demo the product you are offering and when the actual "subscription" begins a low 'per session' fee is proposed ( When I say low I am talking in the neighborhood of $5 a player) outside of that if the players feel like they want to tip then that's fine. I firmly believe any subscription based D&D session should be 100% authentic in terms of story and world. Using a premade campaign to profit off of is wrong and I believe could fall in the line of some illegal issues. That's my 2 cents anyway. P.R

Pasquale R. said: When I first viewed this topic a couple days ago, I was a bit appalled at the idea of charging people to enjoy the content that I was creating, as I was enjoying their participation and equal effort in playing in our world. This was my thought as well... but the more I think about it... my in person groups have always provided food/drinks as thanks, a couple of times they threw money my way for gas when they wanted to meet somewhere... I'm just too on the fence about this honestly. Lots of Pros/Cons to balance out... including more inclination to show up when agreed for the players.... more inclination to be patient as the GM... not to mention the scoop off the top that the site would get, allowing for better tools and growth on their part... On the Con side: It's a hobby that is free, minus the initial investment for books... to add a charge, even if it's only a deposit for the campaign.... I just don't know. Edit: The only way I'd see this working, server side, is if the site had a currency you could buy that you could use on tokens/maps/mentor etc stuff, OR, use to tip a GM, which would then enter their wallet to be used for the same. Even then, quality of play is going to be perceived differently by different people... and "I didn't like this session" is going to be a factor.. Too many variables.

Tommy L. said Edit: The only way I'd see this working, server side, is if the site had a currency you could buy that you could use on tokens/maps/mentor etc stuff, OR, use to tip a GM, which would then enter their wallet to be used for the same. Bitcoins?

Was thinking more like "Roll20 Dollars ( or whatever name they choose)", this way the currency is controlled through the site itself and they can benefit, more-so than if it was directly to each person.

Tommy L. said: Pasquale R. said: When I first viewed this topic a couple days ago, I was a bit appalled at the idea of charging people to enjoy the content that I was creating, as I was enjoying their participation and equal effort in playing in our world. This was my thought as well... but the more I think about it... my in person groups have always provided food/drinks as thanks, a couple of times they threw money my way for gas when they wanted to meet somewhere... I'm just too on the fence about this honestly. I am too. It would be cool, but I already have people generously giving donations vs making someone pay. I enjoy DMing for the DMing portion. Im not out to really make money with it. That said, If i were to, thats not such a bad thing, but like others have said I don't want new players to get the idea that its normal or something you should do. I would also be afraid that people who have never DMed before just show up and go "ok im gonna DM now for profit". I draw comparisons to YouTube because it is STRIKINGLY a similar conversation. I do that for fun, and the fact I am bieng paid (albiet very very very little) is awesome. I would still be doing it for completely free. In that area we see people all the time who just do it "to get rich quick" and... you can easily see those channels. Tommy L. said: Was thinking more like "Roll20 Dollars ( or whatever name they choose)", this way the currency is controlled through the site itself and they can benefit, more-so than if it was directly to each person. I agree there, but it could just as easily be done with real money as well. The only reason you'd not want to call it real money is if you don't want it to leave the site again, but in this case I would assume that was the point. The transaction would be handeled through the third part, lets say for now Roll20 as an example. You would pay the money. Every person in a 5 PC group made a $5 payment to Roll20 for the services of Gary Gygax. Then on Gary's side he see's "You now have $20 - Would you like to transfer this to your bank?" Something along those lines. You could keep it in Roll20 to pay for Mentorship or Assets, or just deposit it back to your bank.

The conversation about how roll20.net could get a slice of this pie does not matter based on the previous statement from Nolan saying they do not plan to regulate or restrict this. They are busy enough with their work already. Although the players could expect the GM to maintain a mentor or supporter account so they do not have to look at adds. If the guy want to sell his services then let him, if you are not in the contract what does it matter to you? How much time can you really invest in regulating how other people are having fun and if you really have a lot of free time for that then is it worth it? People pay for hobbies all the time, people pay for track time with RC, they pay for rink time with skating, they pay for studio time with karate or dance. For many, many player's finding a good GM can be hard and their enjoyment of the game is enough that it is worth it to pay for a good experience. So let them, no one makes you pay for the service if you think it is not worth it, then do not use the service.

PS: I do not know why the whole previous post is italicized I did not do that on purpose. I think it is because I originally was going to quote someone.

I'm not sure why my post was deleted, but I'm going to reiterate that while it may not be immoral if it's a contract freely entered into by consenting adults, yada yada yada, I think demanding payment for DMing violates the spirit of the game and the community in a rather crass and vulgar way. DMs should be doing it for love of the game and because DMing is intrinsically rewarding, not for profit. If it starts feeling like a chore or a job to you, I'd say you need to re-evaluate some things - such as your DM style and the system you are using. There is a big difference in social context between accepting small tokens of appreciation such as a bit of extra swag at a con, having your share of the pizza bill covered, or a small crit-mas gift, and charging people to DM for them.

I think the idea of paid for DM's is a great idea. Especially if Trojan is offer a 'two session' taster for free. The player choice is pretty simple after that - if trojan is worth your money pay. If not, don't. No risk other than a bit of time. Imagine how amazing it would be to DM professionally. Think about how good a DM could really get if they were doing it 5-8 hours a day, every day. I think this works even better with new players. When I was first starting, a huge road block was knowledge but also DM. My group is spread across countries and it's pretty tough to walk into a game store by yourself. It's also really tough to randomly asking for a DM on a forum. New groups wanting to play have to have someone not only drive everyone else to learn a system but also learn how to be a DM. It's a big ask and I bet a vast amount of players are put off by this. It's pretty easy to take the RPG culture for granted once you've been in it for a few years. As a new player, I would have jumped on the chance to pay for a DM to teach my group the basics and run a campaign or two. The only word of caution I'd throw out is to be careful of copyright. Not so much on the player handbook rights (you'd have to assume your players have bought these) but on asset rights. Maps, tokens, etc lifted from cartogophers guild, deviantart etc can call kind of by used the fair use act for friendly games. However, as soon as you start to monetize your game you'd need the legal right to use any art asset for commercial purposes. Paying for the rights or creating every token, map, scene yourself could be a significant and/or expensive task.

crimsyn said: DMs should be doing it for love of the game and because DMing is intrinsically rewarding, not for profit. If it starts feeling like a chore or a job to you, I'd say you need to re-evaluate some things - such as your DM style and the system you are using. I agree that first and foremost a DM should love what he/she is doing before anything. If it is done out of anything other than that primarily it is wrong and it will show in their work and approach. BUT, people have jobs they love very much. Why not become a Professional Dungeon Master (This title sounds pretty badass) and Provide a premium service that some will either be hard pressed to find or don't feel like going through 2-3 games to find out they were lacking or not what they were expecting. There is nothing to re evaluate if you are a genuinely great DM who has a Passion for this and also want to make money from his experience and services. If you use that example I guarantee a portion, if not the majority would be put right back into it with purchasing more material to further increase the service being provided.

I disagree completly, this is not a faith or a religion were we must all be universally motivated by faith. This is a hobby, and I have been in good games GM'ed by a friend who still wanted to play while I decided to take a break. He did not want to GM, but he did a very good job at it. What people enjoy about gaming is personal and different for everyone. Most people I know enjoy being a player and hate GM'ing. So how can it be wrong? People create art for commission and it sells just fine, even if it is not their passion. How many TV shows did George RR Martian do before he gave up and moved on to his movies? man of those shows were hits, even if he was doing them for money. It is the same thing, a creative endeavor for money is no less valuable to the people willing to pay.

I'm not opposed to the concept of paid DMs, but It is the kind of thing that would needs a regulated environment to work properly especially online. As someone who has worked as a tutor both online and offline I can tell you right now just because someone says they want to pay for your service doesn't mean they will bother showing. Actually tutoring is not a bad comparison for this exact thing. I found myself often being stood up for first sessions all the time, even when they paid before hand through a middle man. Honestly the only time I made reliable money was when there was a middle man to hold the money. In this case middle man means the GM still gets paid if players flake without notice and the players get refunds if the GM flakes. Frankly allowing unregulated paid GM game on roll20 is a risky business since it will result in people getting ripped off. There will be GMs who get paid and do nothing. Their will be player who show up for a session and not pay. Only properly regulated system will avoid issues like that. The roll20 admins would be wise to makes rules about this before people start doing it, rather than waiting for it to become an issue.

Niall R. said: Frankly allowing unregulated paid GM game on roll20 is a risky business since it will result in people getting ripped off. There will be GMs who get paid and do nothing. Their will be player who show up for a session and not pay. Only properly regulated system will avoid issues like that. The roll20 admins would be wise to makes rules about this before people start doing it, rather than waiting for it to become an issue. We already know that Roll20 them selves dont want to regulate things, but this could get out of hand quickly. Regardless of what most of think, this could and can happen. Even if Roll20 doesn't want to facilitate payed DM's at the very least there needs to be a coverage on their part. Outlaw it completely or allow for it with the discresion of the DM and the PC's. I would hate to see something happen to Roll20 over this regardless.

Pavlos S. said: Looking for people that will pay for something they can get for free? Bottled water. nough said.

Luke said: Pavlos S. said: Looking for people that will pay for something they can get for free? Bottled water. nough said. TIL food and services are exactly the same thing.

I dig this conversation, other than some of the attacks or "What about the children?" undertones. Good faith is as important in an online dialogue as it is at a dinner table. When: (Games Played)*(Average Rate)*(Bargaining Factor)=(Games GMed)*(Average Rate)*(Bargaining Factor) ... then no money is formally exchanged, and utility provided is even. Oh hey. That's at least slightly nifty, ain't it? There DOES sometimes exist a problem where: (Utility("Fun", in this case) Provided By GM) > (Utility Provided By Players) ... such that people feel there is bad faith, or start to burn out on GMing. It happens. Players burning out, due to the effort put in by the GM being significantly less than that put out by the players.... It seems possible, but I haven't seen lots of it personally. Money is a method of assessing VALUE, there are other methods of providing value as well. "I'm not inviting Jim to my place anymore" is an example of assessing negative value on a gaming exchange :-) Positively contributing to a narrative, helping draw up maps, looking up information(Or giving advice and teaching aspects of the system, for a newbie GM).... There's LOTS of ways to provide utility for eachother, and it's important that players attempt to do so, in my mind. For me: I got into tabletop in the last couple years with some friends. It was surprisingly awesome, especially compared to my attempts with kids in my childhood. GMing was very intimidating, and I did not jump into it quickly. Why use time preparing or GMing, if you can have more fun playing? It was because I thought I could build a fun environment for people to play in, and I felt bad about the unrequited devotion our GM was putting in. Reciprocity(Mandatory in all relationships) and curiousity kinda pushed me in that direction.

Hi All, Wow. Thank you all so much for posting here and bringing great perspective to this topic. It's wonderful to hear what everyone thinks about this and to get some really good ideas for what to think about and what to avoid. While everyone has brought up great points and I'd love to address them all, I would just be saying "I agree with Chris A. on X" or "I agree with Sentai on Y" over and over again. That said, I would like to speak to the post by Ndreare and others here. I strongly agree that a paid DM on Roll20 should be a mentor with experience with both the game and the Roll20 interface (and API). If I were to start anything like DM-for-hire services, I would absolutely be indebted to the developers, at least showing my support through their paid services. Additionally, these services come with great benefits for the players as well, which they ought to expect from a DM charging for his services. Thanks to everyone who brought this up. Again, thanks for all the interest and discussion! Best, TrojanKnight

I think it's particularly funny that so many people are up in arms about paying for service. Have you ever tried snowboarding for free on the mountain? How about deep sea fishing for free? Let's see, how about hitting the drag strip to race your tricked out car? All of these hobbies have associated costs. In fact WoTC capitalizes on those factors. Why else are there six (give or take) different versions of DnD? Until they blundered with the open gaming license they owned the market share. Face it, we already pay people to play. There is a market for pay-to-play. It just hasn't developed yet. (Yes I know the OGL opened up a market for many other indie gamers and companies) I GM for free because I love doing it. But, I'm mediocre average at best. If I was the Brad Pitt of running games I'd be happy to charge players for a good time. Hell, I pay Brad Pitt to entertain me several times a year. When it comes to verifying a GMs ability in order to decide if I should pay him/her, it would happen by viewing the price tag and available slots. No matter how good a GM is, he can only physically run one game at a time. If I can get in on a game for 5 bucks and I don't have to beg or plead one of the other players to quit so I can join, then it probably won't be any better of a game than one I could play for free. Worse maybe even. I think a game worth playing would drive a much higher price tag. I know that won't be a popular statement. But I drop a S-ton of my money on coffee I don't actually need (dang that evil empire). The fact that there are not 200 posts asking how to pay and join a game, means that the community (the demand) isn't ready for TrojanKnights' game (the supply). One day, it likely will be. I say say keep at it, offer a pay for play service. If you are worth paying, people will do it. And they will probably be happy they did.

I totally understand that in a D&D type game the dm and the players provide entertainment to each other. That's what the game should be. I also understand that the gm uses up way more of their own resources in most situations than the players. True story. That being said if a party of 5 play in a campaign and contribute $4 each per session they are probably compensating the gm with about .50 cents or less per hour for their time. In most cases much less. Its still a labor of love. The Gm is not going to see any profit if that's what concerns most people who oppose this. Combine the cost of modules, AP's, reference books and rule books, bestiaries ect. As well as time spent making maps, setting up NPcs, macros, research, coming up with new challenges and ideas, balancing the game and keeping it fun, maintaining an adventure log, loot table and recruiting/ screening new players for the flakes that dont show and you have someone who is working almost around the clock to make sure your having fun in the game. Believe me if you have a good game and a GM who cares, its worth every penny and dedicated players should be more than happy to provide a little compensation to offset the gm"s time and investment. .

FWIW: "Have a developer GM a session of Exalted 3e over Skype" was the highest-tier perk for the Exalted 3e Kickstarter. Said perk cost US$3,000. Someone bought it.

I'd love to jump in and fume a bit. I think this is a great idea, especially if the GM really wants to go above and beyond. There are plenty of good GMs that would do it for free but I suspect there are plenty who would love the excuse to make their campaigns even better without feeling guilt over the time and energy they invest in entertaining everyone. But what really gets my panties in a twist are the number of people that insist that being a good GM is a labor of love. As a fine artist and illustrator I find it distasteful that over and over people insist that they need to hate their jobs to deserve to be paid. There will always be hobbyists who find this as a stress relief and form of entertainment but that shouldn't let them call anyone any kind of 'sellout' if that someone wants to commit their efforts to making something special and call attention to that. Posting as a paid GM has been on my mind as well because I pride myself on doing much of the graphical materials myself, which is how I would market why I would ask for compensation. I'm a hundred-times grateful to Trojan Knight for offering his posting as the unexpected arena that was this discussion, which I hope has been mostly exhausted by the time I decide to make my own post offering.

Interesting topic, which touches on a lot of sensitive subjects. I think this is a simple question of supply and demand. It's no different than selling any other service. If the person offering the service is qualified for the job and is committing to uphold their end of the bargain, why should they not be paid if others are willing to pay for that service?

Okay, lets assume that money changing hands is necessary to resolve supply and demand. I've been to conventions where there have been more DMs than players and games would be canceled or merged for lack of players. In a case where there are more DMs than players, should the DMs be paying players, in order to resolve the difference between supply and demand? Should I be giving out five bucks to every player who signs up for my game instead of another? After all, isn't a good player providing service to the DM as well?

Luke said: I totally understand that in a D&D type game the dm and the players provide entertainment to each other. That's what the game should be. I also understand that the gm uses up way more of their own resources in most situations than the players. True story. That being said if a party of 5 play in a campaign and contribute $4 each per session they are probably compensating the gm with about .50 cents or less per hour for their time. In most cases much less. Its still a labor of love. If it takes a DM more than 40 hours to prep and play a session, something is horribly wrong.

I think that if Trojan is good enough to deserve being paid to GM he will be. A few bucks a week for the peace of mind and confidence that the session will be good and that players will show up would be worth it to a lot of players. For some people who argue that any amount of money is too much for a free service, that isn't really relevant. Trojan isn't forcing people to pay for the free service, he is offering his services for a fee. If you want to play free, don't play his games. It might be free to find a good GM and good group that lasts for a campaign, but paying for it can help serious players group together in a setting of their choice. Players will be paying for consistency of themselves and their GM, and for those who want others to have incentive to show up this is a great idea.

yeah go for it. he can charge anything he likes. I'm just saying to him the perception is, most won't pay. look at how many people download needed pdfs for free.

With the amount of topics I've seen of "We have a group of friends, we just need a DM/GM" and "Desperately seeking DM!" between here, Reddit, and a few other sites, I can see that there is a demand for willing and competent DM/GM's. Many of these threads either go unanswered, or the only answers they get are people that are looking to be players. I've been asked repeatedly to run games, and I probably get two requests a week in my email, in part because I have a few websites still active of games that started months or years ago and already concluded. As I am also working on my own publishing business, my time and creative effort have worth, and thus I charge to run games. I allow myself to run two games a week, with 4 hour sessions, and they're almost constantly filled with paying members. No one is being forced to pay for the service, and if you can find a suitable alternative for free, I encourage it. However, my time and effort have value, and I attach a price tag to my services.

This is an awesome discussion. I love it. I've been DMing since before Dungeons and Dragons had that name and I have seen hundreds of campaigns and created probably close to a hundred myself. I think that living in a society that makes people pay for everything, that I would love to see players pay me for all the crazy effort I go to to make their gaming experience (and mine) more rewarding. The monetary angle adds in accountability. If a player doesn't like the product they move on and stop paying. And in this case players would segregate very fast into groups catering to their own brand of roleplaying. Personally I detest over-the-top nonsense, the rule of cool (I call it the rule of fools), and worlds that rain down 20 different races of pcs and dump trucks full of magic items but have zero realism, no problem-solving, and a jumping through hoops plotline. So those types of players would avoid my game if they had to pay. I wouldn't have to deal with their inherent flakiness (just goes with that style of thinking). That benefits everyone, me and them. You don't like the product you take your money elsewhere. Simultaneously if players do like the product there is a greater commitment simply because they are indeed paying for it. It's a psychological trick but I am sad to say it works great. If you pay for it you must respect it in your own mind. Humorously, or perhaps even more sadly, for me the charged prices mentioned do not begin to truly compensate me given the amount of time effort and quality I think I deliver. So if I expected pay for it, it would have to be much higher than what has been mentioned here. I love it when people compare roleplaying to video games or books. That is such a ridiculous comparison it merits no consideration. With roleplaying you are centerstage, an actor, and simultaneously a writer of your own role. It's improvisational consensual storytelling. It is perhaps the highest form of entertainment possible. To the degree that immersion approaches the rich sensual feedback of life itself, roleplaying will become the most addictive and sought after form of all entertainment. If we remain (foolishly) a society founded on the market economy, then you are just kidding yourself to believe that this offering will not cost money. Roleplaying exists because the roles we occupy in life miss fulfillment points for us that it can, in part, provide. It's an amazing tool for simulation of other lives, other selves, self-discovery, and exposure to a wealth of beauty in artwork unparallelled in any single other entertainment experience. It worthiness is almost beyond question. The next question is how much.