[BRP] Basic Roleplaying sheet skill rolls always failures

Hi. Like title says. Why does the Basic Roleplaying sheet skills always showing a result of failure regardless of the actual roll? I'm using an older edition CoC sheet as a substitute for now, but the BRP sheet is unusable in its current state. Edit : Ok "unusable" might be a bit harsh, but certainly it's distracting at best to always see the roll result read failure. Also, fumble, special and critical success calculation is the one thing a sheet would help tremendously in calculating.

Could you give an example of the roll you made to make this happen? I tried to take a quick look at the html on my phone but was unsure of the part that did this. I think it looked like it used attributes as conditions for what constitutes a fumble. What are the fumble/crit success tresholds for the system?

Skills are not by default tied to attributes (there's an optional rule for that, but in any case the skill rating should be a self contained value). For any skill check there are 5 possible levels of results: 1. Fumble (roll >= top 5% chance of failure) - 5% (1/20th) of the chance of failure (e.g. 68% skill equals 32% of failure (100-68=32). Fumble on roll of 99 and 00 (32/20=1.6 round up to 2) 2. Failure (roll>target) - Any non-success that is not a fumble. 3. Success (roll <= target) - Any non-special or non-critical success 4. Special (roll <= 20% of target) - If roll is < 1/5 the skill rating (e.g. 68% skill rating has special success on 14 or less; 68/5=13.6 or 14). 5. Critical success (roll <= 5% of target) - If roll is < 1/20 of the skill rating (e.g. 68% skill rating crits on a 3 or less; 68/20=3.4 or 3) The above I took from the Basic Roleplaying "Big Gold Book" (p. 176-177).  I'm not sure if the sheet author had intended to provide this kind of result readout, but it's obviously something that would be helpful. 

So I pulled  a skillroll from the sheet and it looked like this(relevant part is bold ): &{template:skillRoll} {{name=@{Name}}} {{skillvalue=@{artScore}}} {{fumble=[[ceil(95+(@{artScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})/20))]]}} {{crit=[[ceil((@{artScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})/20)+1]]}} {{special=[[ceil((@{artScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})/5)+1]]}} {{success=[[@ceil({artScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})]]}} {{roll=[[1d100]]}} {{skillname=@{artSkillname}}} Yeah it seems there is nothing set regarding fumble/crit success there, so that should be modified. The problem is,  ceil() and similar is executed last after everything else, making this invalid: {{roll=[[1d100cf<ceil(95+(@{artScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})/20))cs(ceil((@{artScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})/20)+1)]]}} To turn of the fumble/crit off you could set the condition as something impossible like: {{roll=[[1d100cf101cs101]]}} Maybe this could be achived with API scripts, sheetworker or some other woodoo magic, but I have no idea how those work.

I am the original sheet author and it was producing  success levels.  I did not add category modifiers into the skill rolls because it is optional.  Someone decided to modify the sheet to add category modifiers automatically without attempting to communicate with me, I have no idea what state the sheet is i now.

From what I see it is working What I did notice was that he put a multiplier in there as well for the BRB difficulties 1/2 skill x2 skill etc.  Now I originally I had a +/- mod only (he has both now) so that if users wanted to use modifiers such as +20/-10 or to use the standard BGB modifiers they could  put 1/2 skill as a negative value to represent difficult rolls and the full skill as positive value to represent an easy roll. What you are probably doing is changing the multiplier to 0 which gives a modified skill of 0% which is always going to fail, the modified value is in the parenthesises. Will result in this happening   As opposed to Note the value in parenthesises.

Hi David. Thanks for checking this.  I'm not getting anything in the parens at the end of the Rolling: row even if I put in non-zero values. It always says (0%). I tried entering 0.5 like you suggested and it still says zero. If I hover over the roll it says: "80++0.5=80++0.5". It's been over a year since I worked on a sheet so I don't recall if that's correct. Here's what I did: 1. Created a new game with the BRP character sheet. 2. Created a new character. 3. Put "80" in the value next to listen 4. Attempted a roll and put in different numbers into the "Input Value" dialog.  5. Observed that the result always says "Failure" (except for the one time I rolled 100 and it said "Fumble" so I guess it got that right). In any case, the Input Value dialog is confusing. I'm not sure what I should be putting in there to just do a regular (i.e. average) roll without any modifiers. Can I get an explanation of the legal values for that dialog?

The two plus signs after eachother might indicate some field somewhere is empty instead of 0 or some other number, have had that happen in another game. Could be some misc. modifier that is empty instead of 0.

Carl T said: Hi David. Thanks for checking this.  I'm not getting anything in the parens at the end of the Rolling: row even if I put in non-zero values. It always says (0%). I tried entering 0.5 like you suggested and it still says zero. If I hover over the roll it says: "80++0.5=80++0.5". It's been over a year since I worked on a sheet so I don't recall if that's correct. Here's what I did: 1. Created a new game with the BRP character sheet. 2. Created a new character. 3. Put "80" in the value next to listen 4. Attempted a roll and put in different numbers into the "Input Value" dialog.  5. Observed that the result always says "Failure" (except for the one time I rolled 100 and it said "Fumble" so I guess it got that right). In any case, the Input Value dialog is confusing. I'm not sure what I should be putting in there to just do a regular (i.e. average) roll without any modifiers. Can I get an explanation of the legal values for that dialog? Leave the values at default and try it send me an invite to the game you just setup.  Do the category mods have any values in them did you enter any characteristic values?

Yes you need a value in the category modifier so for listen there needs to be value in perception. I explained the inputs in a previous post.  Thats about all the support I can do tonight its 3:00am here.

David said: Yes you need a value in the category modifier so for listen there needs to be value in perception. I explained the inputs in a previous post.  Thats about all the support I can do tonight its 3:00am here. Ahh, now I understand. I didn't know that there needed to be a value in those boxes and because I haven't played with category modifiers. Honestly, I didn't even notice those until now. Those really need to default to zero if NaN as it's a huge gotcha for someone like me (and my players) who are new to the system.. :/ In any case, thanks for taking the time to help me and for making the sheet. If I have some time over December, I might tinker with the layout design. Would you be interested in reviewing potential contributions back to the community sheet?

Yeah the fields should have a default value to avoid this. Something like: <input type="number" style="bla bla" value="0">

Andreas J. said: Yeah the fields should have a default value to avoid this. Something like: <input type="number" style="bla bla" value="0"> This was my first complete sheet from some time ago and as I could get no one interested in testing or evaluating it so I just about abandoned  it.

Carl T said: Ahh, now I understand. I didn't know that there needed to be a value in those boxes and because I haven't played with category modifiers. Honestly, I didn't even notice those until now. Those really need to default to zero if NaN as it's a huge gotcha for someone like me (and my players) who are new to the system.. :/ If you don't use category modifiers click the cog above the title and check alphabetical skills and uncheck Skills by category.  That should be a toggle but I had not figured out toggling multiple hidden areas at the time. I have been thinking about tidying it up and adding sheet workers to calculate the category modifiers (which I have already done for the RQ3 sheet) but the thoughts of having to mess around with skills again gives me nightmares.  If we could actually do some math in the roll tables it would be so much easier.   The input box for mods can be annoying  if you are just rolling the base skill, the extra input that was added for the multiplier makes it even more annoying.  Since this sheet I have used 2 buttons one for normal rolls and one for modded rolls or placed a field at the top of the skills for a general modifier but that would mean modifying every single skill on the sheet .  Yes I would appreciate a heads up of any changes.

This looks like a minor bug: If you use Alphabetical Skills (another option I didn't understand; I just thought it sorted skills somehow) then there's an issue with adding specialties under the "Art". The reason is that there's a typo in the roll template for the success portion. The @ should precede {artScore}. Here's art (not working): value="&{template:skillRoll} {{name=@{Name}}} {{skillvalue=@{artScore}}} {{fumble=[[ceil(95+(@{artScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})/20))]]}} {{crit=[[ceil((@{artScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})/20)+1]]}} {{special=[[ceil((@{artScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})/5)+1]]}} {{success=[ [@ceil({artScore} *?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})]]}} {{roll=[[1d100]]}} {{skillname=@{artSkillname}}}" Here's craft (working): value="&{template:skillRoll} {{name=@{Name}}} {{skillvalue=@{craftScore}}} {{fumble=[[ceil(95+(@{craftScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})/20))]]}} {{crit=[[ceil((@{craftScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})/20)+1]]}} {{special=[[ceil((@{craftScore}*?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})/5)+1]]}} {{success=[ [ceil(@{craftScore} *?{Multipler|1}+?{Mods|0})]]}} {{roll=[[1d100]]}} {{skillname=@{craftSkillname}}}" The workaround seems to be to use Categories and enter zero to not use categories. :P Other stuff: Agree on roll tables. I've never found a real use for them. Agree on input modifiers. If the goal is to get rid of the pop-ups, I could imagine a central "control panel" on the sheet that governs all rolls. Have checkboxes for Easy, Average, Difficult, and an input for %Modifier. The checkboxes feed the fixed modifiers to the roll. The %Modifier is for flat modifiers from the GM. Default to Average with zero modifier so for most rolls you don't need to change anything. Something like: [ ] Easy, [ x ] Average, [ ] Difficult, %Modifier: -10 I can't remember if you can use other input types in the dialogs, but I'd try something like this even if you want to keep the pop-ups since the multipliers are constants in the rules for skill rolls.

Carl T said: The workaround seems to be to use Categories and enter zero to not use categories. :P Or put it under Other Skills. BRP games which do not have categories have the skills listed listed in alphabetical order.  I have had players complaining they cannot cope with skills broken into categories.

Carl T said: Other stuff: Agree on roll tables. I've never found a real use for them. Agree on input modifiers. If the goal is to get rid of the pop-ups, I could imagine a central "control panel" on the sheet that governs all rolls. Have checkboxes for Easy, Average, Difficult, and an input for %Modifier. The checkboxes feed the fixed modifiers to the roll. The %Modifier is for flat modifiers from the GM. Default to Average with zero modifier so for most rolls you don't need to change anything. Something like: [ ] Easy, [ x ] Average, [ ] Difficult, %Modifier: -10 I can't remember if you can use other input types in the dialogs, but I'd try something like this even if you want to keep the pop-ups since the multipliers are constants in the rules for skill rolls. Here is an extreme version I have on the Morrow Morrow Project character sheet.

FYI, I've sent in a pull request to fix the issue with the art skill and set default values to zero for the category modifiers.