Hidden Initiatives / Player Visibility

So I've started making duplicate tokens on the GM layer so that way I can keep NPC initiatives a secret but still have visible tokens, but when an invisible token has the current initiative, the Turn Order tracker jumps down to display the current turn as whoever the next visible token is on the tracker, causing players to think it's their turns when there are NPCs having actions before them. Is there anyway to change this behavior by default, or do I need to say it's actually an NPC's turn every single time one of them comes up?

What is the different behavior that you would like to achieve there? If you don't click the button to advance the turn order, it can stay on the last person who knew it was their turn when they are finished. &nbsp;Or you could put a stand-in the turn tracker ("NPC"), or you can do what you've been doing and advance the turn order to the next person. Wiki docs for this, <a href="https://wiki.roll20.net/Turn_Tracker" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.roll20.net/Turn_Tracker</a> The API, a Roll20 Pro Subscriber perk, can also interact with the Turn Tracker, depending on what you want it to do differently.

The different behavior is that when a token is highlighted that is on the GM layer, no token is highlighted on the object layer. From a player's perspective, it's "nobody's" turn. I could solve it by not advancing the turn tracker until a PC comes up, but I tend to have all of my NPCs roll unique initiatives so it adds a chance that I'd skip a turn if there's a sequence of NPCs taking actions...

Zenith said: The different behavior is that when a token is highlighted that is on the GM layer, no token is highlighted on the object layer. I believe that is how it works now. I follow what the trouble is, in your set up. How would you like it to work for you? Maybe we can figure out a method to accomplish it. Describe the behavior that you would like to be able to do, or what you are wanting to see.

This is how the turn tracker looks on the GM side. Notice it's currently highlighting a token on the GM layer and there are two tokens after it. Here's how it looks at a player, with the current highest visible selected as active: What I was hoping was a way that it wouldn't be different between the two versions, in whatever way was possible.

One solution might be to provide each NPC Token on the Objects Layer a 'placeholder' initiative value within the Turn Tracker. These 'placeholder' values could be based on the initiatives of the next player on the Turn Tracker. For example, every NPC who goes before Nim could have a placeholder initiative of 10.01, placing them right above Nim on the Turn Tracker. In your example, every 'Skeleton' Token on the Objects Layer could be given an initiative value of 17.01, to specify that they act before Maverick.

I would prefer it if we could just add an option on tokens, similar to name and bars, that determines if players can view them on the turn order.

The easiest solution would be to leave the last active visible token on top of the order for pkayers.

Putting a visible token on the initiative tracker for players doesn't really solve the problem, because I explicitly want NPC initiative counts to always remain hidden, whether the token is visible or not. I think the only way to get the behavior I want is to not use the turn tracker until a PC's turn comes up, and it won't keep track of NPC initiatives...

Bits that can appear in the turn tracker: PC Token Picture Nameplate or not. Initiative Roll* the number can be erased. NPC Token Picture (or not if the Token is on GM layer) Nameplate or not. Initiative Roll* the number can be erased. Custom ( no picture ) Any name text. Can be blank space or any number digit that you type, default is 0 but it can be erased to show nothing. Are you wanting to get the NPC Token Picture And Nameplate but just not the Initiative Roll showing? I just tested and you can delete the initiative number, but keep the position in the turn tracker sequence. It still cycles in order (unless you run the ascending or descending sort again). If you prefer to still keep the hidden NPC token and name and number, but you just want to put a STOP Sign (effectively) in between, try using the Custom Item, no number showing, and GM drag-and-drop the custom item position to adjacent to each block of NPC's in the Turn Tracker. &nbsp;Label it something like "Players Halt! NPC's are acting."

I'm trying to avoid putting in any visual reminders of NPC turns, to keep it always a secret from the players.

Zenith said: I'm trying to avoid putting in any visual reminders of NPC turns, to keep it always a secret from the players. That sounds like what you already achieved in the top of your 2 screenshots. What am I missing, Zenith? Perhaps label a custom item as "Players Halt! Pause for the GM" so that there is no specific reminder of NPC turns, but there is a break before "Maverick (17)" and no one is queued to act other than the GM.

He doesn't want the players to know the npc's turn is happening at all, until he tells them. The only way to achieve that right now is to not advance the turn tracker to the npc turns until after they've completed their turns.

I guess to rephrase, "how do I get the green bar to select "Not Maverick" when it's Skeleton's turn?

Zenith said: I guess to rephrase, "how do I get the green bar to select "Not Maverick" when it's Skeleton's turn? You can't. Your only option right now is to not advance the turn order if you have npc's turns hidden on the GM Layer.

I think, ultimately, your best bet is going to be keeping your NPC's on the GM layer to hide their turn,&nbsp; holding off on advancing the turn order after someone's actions to give yourself time to do your NPC things, and then verbally telling your players when it's their turn as you eventually advance the turn order to the next character for players to see. It's not elegant or automated, but it's essentially the same thing you'd be doing at a physical in-person game.... doing your thing before telling the next player that it's now their turn. From a psychological viewpoint (and GM tradition), you can remove any "hints" of stuff going on by play-acting these NPC actions even when there aren't any.&nbsp; ie: the Mysterious Dice Roll Behind the Screen To Keep Them On Edge, method.

That'll work, I suppose. I spent a whole bunch of time training my players to pay attention to the initiative tracker and to be ready for their turns when they come up, and I also use it for duration timers so they're always mindful of it. Going back to "it's only your turn when I say its your turn" kind of hurts the dependence on the tracker a lot, especially when other VTTs simply deselect anything when invisible tokens are selected.

Zenith said: I guess to rephrase, "how do I get the green bar to select "Not Maverick" when it's Skeleton's turn? Put a custom label item that says "Not Maverick" and drag it to directly above Maverick's position in the Turn Tracker.

Okay. I guess I'll do that for every character.

You would only need to do it for where a Not-Character requires GM time before the next player-character. In your screenshot example you would only need the custom item calling for the pause before Maverick.

If I only do it before characters that have NPC turns before them, it tells the players where the NPCs have turns before them. This is fundamentally what I'm trying to keep secret.

Ominous die roll of doom method - Put a Not-Character turn after every players whether there's an NPC there or not

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