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How To Successfully Create A Long Term Online RPG Group. (or, why no one is responding to your post)

1488985056

Edited 1488986319
LAZ
Pro
Greetings fellow Roll20'ers, my name is Laz Green, and thank you for reading.  Let me first say that I am here merely to provide some advice from my humble point of view, and I have only the best intentions.  This is based on my experience, and what worked for me.   If this drivel is in the wrong spot, moderators, I humbly apologize, I just figured the LFG forum was the place it would do the most good.  I see many frustrated players not being able to secure long term games online, so here I am to offer assistance.  I have been with Roll20 since 2014 and I have had the pleasure of watching it grow from a mostly Pathfinder site where I had to macro everything, to the 5E explosion we have today, fulfilling many of my lifelong wishes as far as online gaming, character sheets, and interface possibilities. It truly is a massive, groundbreaking addition to the universe of tabletop RPG's.  I think it will continue to do amazing things for our little community as it grows, and to that end, I wish to provide some new members and new players advice on how to set up a long-term, fulfilling game with like-minded players and enriching experiences. I have enjoyed over a thousand hours on Roll20 in several long term campaigns as both player and GM, and I can tell you I have ran the gamut of experiences from absolutely terrible to amazing.  I have noticed there is a significantly higher chance of nailing down a long term group when certain steps are followed, and I would like to share those with all of you in hopes it can help you enjoy this rewarding hobby as much as I have! I have enjoyed several groups, garnered a handful of players that have followed me to other games, and consider many of my online co-gamers as friends now!  I have experienced some bad groups as well, but it was mainly because one or more of the following points were missed.   PREFACE : First, I must say this, and it is going to possibly ruffle a few feathers, but it's true.   If you are not the GM and you are trying to get a group going, you have a massive uphill battle, and you are probably not going to find someone to GM YOUR game . If someone wanted to put together a campaign as a G/DM, wouldn't they already be doing so?  A GM wants to GM THEIR game.  It takes days and weeks of reading and preparation to create a long-term campaign, and even if the DM can purchase a pack from D&D/roll20, they must have completed reading the entire adventure/campaign/AP/module before the first session. Every single group I have witnessed or been in that takes "DM Applications" did not start or did not last.  At this point, it's "If you want something done right..."  Either be the GM yourself, or apply to a game another GM started.  There is exceptions to this, of course, but in my experience, that is like advertising that your game is not even close to being ready and may not begin. So from here going forward, I am going to assume that the G/DM is the one making the listing for the intended campaign. 1. BE PATIENT You will not get a long term campaign going in a day.  Or a week. Maybe a in a few weeks, but not really sooner.  That's okay, because it will be totally worth it in the long run. Take the time to vet and interview all of your players and make sure they are expecting the same experience. Plan a Session Zero (see below), and see if the personalities gel. 2. APPLICATIONS AND INTERVIEWS DO NOT ASK FOR APPLICATIONS FOR 'CHARACTERS '.  You are not interviewing the character at this point, you are interviewing the PLAYER . You need to see if their personality, demeanor, age, and schedule can match with yours and that of the other players. Characters should be created in a Session Zero as a group.  Maybe a quick, one or two sentence pitch for a character concept is fine, but don't ask for character sheets or anything like that.  How does the player know if their backstory fits into the campaign?  That is putting the cart before the horse. Ask players for relevant info like age, time zone, schedule, preferred communication software (skype, discord, etc) and experience with RPG's in general and in the rules set you want to play specifically. I stress age because that is a big contributing factor to drama in games.  Someone who is 16 and just saw Critical Role is going to expect a different game than a 45 year old Grognard who grew up on Arnold-as-Conan.  Generally try and stay within age/maturity level.   Ask your players what sort of experience they are looking for by asking them to describe the media they consume .  There is a huge conflict of inner narrative when one player thinks they are in an Anime style fantasy, with catch phrases and huge weapons and massive glinty eyes, and another player is picturing a dark, gritty, Black Death style picture with Game Of Thrones realism and blood and sweat and dirt and mud and manure.  Those two experiences are conflicting by nature, and may result in and off-table conflict later.  Better to up front understand what the players want, and pick players to interview that 'want' what you 'want to give them'...catch me? Get players with similar experience levels and interest together. I like to involve the players I have already chosen for the group to be "in-on" the interviews with prospective players as well.  Helps build a group dynamic. When you have 4 to 6 (no more than that...I don't care that Critical Role has 8 players...they are paid to be there. The most successful long term games I have encountered run with 4 to 6 players and a G/DM), set up a Session Zero! 3. SESSION ZERO Now comes the most fun part to me.  Session Zero is a session where everyone meets up and the G/DM introduces the story/campaign, lets the players talk and meet-and-greet, and then maybe run a One-Shot with pre-gens to get a 'feel for the controls', if necessary. If any player seems too overbearing, or too dominating, or otherwise abrasive, they can be dealt with however you choose without it disrupting the narrative flow of the campaign.  You can alter the roster and re-interview or whatever it takes to get a group of players you think will work well. If everything seems good, then let the players create their characters as a group! You can do a full session of this, sort of a 'Session Zero.1'. Let them tie backstories to not only each other, but to the campaign story itself.  Pathfinder and D&D do this well and clever GM's can port those sort of "group background" tools into any game rules set.  It makes for a much more rewarding experience...the players have characters that care about each other and want to work together. Of course, if you are playing a game that relies on the PC's being evil or strangers or whatever, disregard, I'm just speaking generally.   On that note, make sure the whole group is okay with someone playing an evil alignment.  For the most part, I like to ban evil alignments, because the only reason to play an evil character in a group of good heroes is to be a edgy instigator, and that trope is tired and hinders others enjoyment.  Trust me,you are hardly the first person to think of playing a Neutral Evil Tiefling-Goth-Necromancer-Edgelord in a group of do-gooders, and the only reason to do so is to  disrupt the group.  This leads to conflict that bleeds outside the narrative and 'off-table' so to speak.  It's a co-op game for the most part, so co-operate! 4. GAMETIME! Once you have a few hours together as group, either just chatting and creating characters and backstories, or playing through a few one-shots to get a good dynamic, you can begin your campaign.  It is showtime, and all your hard work, careful curating of your players, and mastermind schemes of intrigue and bloody battles can pay-off!  You have a group of like-minded players with characters that they are emotionally invested in, but more importantly, they are also invested in each other's characters. Get your Level 1 sheets and toss some dice! There it is folks, the rules that I and other GM's abide by that have resulted in some of the best gaming I have ever encountered. ALthough I have been playing RPG's since 1995, it wasn't until 3 years ago that I discovered online tabletop RPG's.  From my start in 2014 in a group playing Carrion Crown (2 years on that) to a few other PF AP's, up to my current 5E group I DM that is traversing Primeval Thule, I have followed these simple guidelines and enjoyed hundreds of hours of story and RP'ing!   This is not a hobby for lazy people.  You can't half-ass a tabletop RPG.   If you don't want to take time to prep and respect the time and commitment of your fellow players, maybe video games are a better choice.  It becomes painful and it hurts and everytime a GM plays a game they are ill prepared for and it bogs down and grinds to a halt, God kills a kitten.  Let's save the kittens, folks!  I really only want everyone to have as amazing of a time as I have, and these careful steps are a good start in beginning a long-term campaign. Take care, have fun, and don't hurt anybody!  
1488986070

Edited 1488986345
LAZ
Pro
That being said, I am looking to be a player in a group either Sunday or Thursday nights that plays 5E, PF,  Ars Magica, Stars Without Number, or Dungeon Crawl Classics. If any GM's are accepting applications for one of those, please PM me and I would be happy to apply/interview!  Happy gaming everyone!
Thank you for this post, seriously! I coul not have put it better ;) If you want to be part of a longterm campaign as a player you have to put in the work to deserve it, and make yourself a good addition to the game!
LazGreen, I have been here for years also. Surprising we have not met. I would agree with 95% of your posting above except sometimes I have people say, please run a game for me. the person seems cool, and I can get along with them. then we build from there. Also as GM people say I bore them to death with my TLDR posting about exactly what I want from a group. The group must get along, no spotlight hogs, limit splitting up. no lone wolves team concept and i run it as: "a dark, gritty, Black Death style picture with Game Of Thrones realism and blood and sweat and dirt and mud and manure.." I am 51, playing since 1977, so yeah, you nailed the old skool flavor that many of us Grognard GMs and Wargamers have. Best of luck, more posts from you.
James J. said: LazGreen, I have been here for years also. Surprising we have not met. I would agree with 95% of your posting above except sometimes I have people say, please run a game for me. the person seems cool, and I can get along with them. then we build from there. Also as GM people say I bore them to death with my TLDR posting about exactly what I want from a group. The group must get along, no spotlight hogs, limit splitting up. no lone wolves team concept and i run it as: "a dark, gritty, Black Death style picture with Game Of Thrones realism and blood and sweat and dirt and mud and manure.." I am 51, playing since 1977, so yeah, you nailed the old skool flavor that many of us Grognard GMs and Wargamers have. Best of luck, more posts from you. For sure, James...Like I said, there are exceptions to every rule, and this is just my experience. I too am a slightly old-school grognard and I think our tastes are similar!   zerosius said: Thank you for this post, seriously! I coul not have put it better ;) If you want to be part of a longterm campaign as a player you have to put in the work to deserve it, and make yourself a good addition to the game! No doubt Zero, I agree wholeheartedly.  I just want people to get the most out of their gaming!
I LOVE this, I'm new to D&D in general (only been playing for 2 years), and I've seen games fall apart because of people doing the things you mentioned. I am totally going to implement that vetting system if I ever start up another game, I've only seen people asking for character applications and thought that was the norm, definitely could've saved me and my other players a lot of heartache if I had seen this a year ago lol. 
Jules said: I LOVE this, I'm new to D&D in general (only been playing for 2 years), and I've seen games fall apart because of people doing the things you mentioned. I am totally going to implement that vetting system if I ever start up another game, I've only seen people asking for character applications and thought that was the norm, definitely could've saved me and my other players a lot of heartache if I had seen this a year ago lol.  I hear that! I learned from a few great GM's that I met on here some of those steps and through trial-and-error hammered out the others.  Hopefully I can save a few groups some headaches with this and see more long-term campaigns take place!
I would like to contribute. I write concisely and there is no novel-sized campaign description to slog through. I add a sentence telling prospective players exactly what to write in the Subject line of their application. It makes it easy to filter out some undesirable types of players.