Zoom Tool Update Bug Report Thread

REVERT THIS! Don't try to fix the thousands of issues with it, it won't work. We don't need it and we don't want it! REVERT REVERT REVERT!

I am getting very inconsistent results using my laptop's touchpad.  In one game, the "two-finger scrolling" advice ONLY moves the map up and down (no left to right movement at all!).  In another game, that same method ONLY zooms in and out and there's no movement. This change is a disaster and will be directly responsible for me not being able to play very well.

I clicked legacy box. I discovered that with two finger click on my trackpad I can left/right scroll the map.  Im using Google Chrome and a Mac running 10.12.16. I use a trackpad.  This update has made using Roll20 less intuitive. And borderline broken. Took me close to 40 minutes just to figure out how to get back limited functionality. And I'm sorry, but "right click improvement" is an EXCUSE not a fix. Also, any variation on "update your system" is ALSO and EXCUSE because not everyone is able to do that. The sheer number of people using trackpads that all have the same issue means that the issue does, in fact, exist. This update is, sorry, broken. And its made the user interface a nightmare. Im cancelling my weekly game because I cannot run it without tons of practice using this new interface. And there is no "legacy reload" option, which is almost standard for a major rollout like this on other platforms. 

Right click panning is actively worse and choppier than middle click panning, somehow? But even with middle click panning, after scrolling to the part of the screen I want to be on, half the time it chops back to where i started when I turn off panning. EDIT:  More than half the time, really. Yeah some pretty fundamental functionality appears to have been broken without any clear replacement of the same quality. Really the thing I am most bemused about is that the legacy option isn't actually a legacy option at all, in that it doesn't use previous functionality - it just changes the current functionality to 'kind of' work like previous functionality (without restoring that functionality or not using the new functionality). That isn't what a legacy option is, guys.

I plugged in a scroll and ball mouse and I do not see any advantage in this mess over the previous.  If asked I would have just said remove the zoom bar to reduce clutter - but given the lack of quality control I would then have said no - leave it there!

I'm on a touchpad and this is awful. Holding down and panning sucks. Buttons are much more inconvenient than the old scroll bar. Legacy option is broken and horizontal tracking is impossible. Everything about this is worse. Using Firefox on a Mac. Roll20 why?

Lex W. said: I clicked legacy box. I discovered that with two finger click on my trackpad I can left/right scroll the map.  Im using Google Chrome and a Mac running 10.12.16. I use a trackpad.  Same EDIT: I also can't subtract or add any health off tokens, it just zooms out every time >.<

This isnt a bug report but feedback. I would appreciate the zoom bar back, the new zoom tool feels clunky on use and the hotkeys get in the way of editing tokens. the token edits especially as certain players arent too strong with math and a simple +X or -X makes it easier to properly keep track of health. The +/- is also important for gms so they can quickly change enemy health and keep their game moving smoothly. Also make a beta server so these kinda things can be gone over and fixed/denied before it reaches the public

Mike Donovan said: STOP BREAKING THINGS THAT USED TO WORK! This^^

Best thing R20 can do at this point is roll back the code to the prior state before the update and put this back in the oven.  When it is fixed, please use defined use cases for testing, dev testing, and thorough UAT before shoving it back out.

Mousewheel and Firefox user here.  This is a little obnoxious to deal with.  Without legacy on the zooming is way too fast and finicky, and with it off it lacks the proper slider where I can grab and drag to what I need.  If you're not gonna revert this can you at least have the old slider in legacy mode? Also please make the + and - keys NOT zoom in/out.

Hoot Games said: Best thing R20 can do at this point is roll back the code to the prior state before the update and put this back in the oven.  When it is fixed, please use defined use cases for testing, dev testing, and thorough UAT before shoving it back out. How often have they ever, and I mean ever, reverted any of the shiny new updates from their blog posts after pushing them from the Dev server, even when they were proven to have inferior functionality to the old method for months on end?

This feature completely disrupts the feature of health bars on character tokens, you cannot use the "-" or "+" to edit your health.

Hoot Games said: Best thing R20 can do at this point is roll back the code to the prior state before the update and put this back in the oven.  When it is fixed, please use defined use cases for testing, dev testing, and thorough UAT before shoving it back out. Honestly, at this rate I'd be content with just making the Legacy button actually do what it says. I like the idea of the new control scheme, and don't really have issues with most of the things everyone else does. But it absolutely should be an option for those who cannot use the new control scheme. 

Please make this update voluntary. As of now I can't modify token values during battles - since using +number / -number doesn't work anymore. Also I have small screen so removing the option to scroll map vertically and horizontally will really make my life difficult on Roll20.

Niche (?) issue: When using mouse gestures in the web browser (hold RMB and move cursor), having to hold down the right mouse button to move the map will unintentionally force them to trigger, for example to reload the page. Allowing to scroll across the map by pressing down on the mousewheel once  as an alternative to the previous method may be a more elegant solution, even if not every mouse has that button.

Juniper L. said: Hey folks, Thank you for the responses and feedback. We’re going to keep monitoring this thread for any new issues that arise, but in the meanwhile some clarifications: -  If you used the scroll bar previously, right click should now give you better controls than before by right-clicking anywhere on the map and dragging. - We’re not able to replicate reports of the trackpad issues - if you’re having this issue, we’d like to ask you for the hardware and MacOS version that you’re using. Also, two-finger clicking (as well as two-finger dragging) should give access to the pan tool from anywhere in the play area. -  We’re definitely addressing the choppiness presently. Thank you again for your responses, please keep letting us know your thoughts on this. - Juniper Wait, how on earth can you not "replicate" the issue on trackpads? I am using multiple macs - a 2017 Macbook Pro running Catalina, which I use with both the internal trackpad and an external Magic Trackpad 2, and a 2019 Mac Mini running Catalina with a Magic Trackpad 2. Very standard setup, so it makes me think that perhaps you don't actually understand the problem.  Old (preferable) behavior: Natural scrolling. Okay, open a PDF on your mac. Zoom in on a page real big. Now, move around the page, left to right, up and down. How? You use two fingers on the trackpad. If you move your two fingers from left to right, the page slides to the right, like you were pushing a physical page on a table. Up and down, same thing. This is what moving around a map used to be like. New (terrible) behavior: No longer can you move around the map with two fingers, like everything else in macOS. If you have the new zoom feature on, using two fingers to slide up and down changes the zoom, and left to right creates choppiness, presumably as the code tries to interpret the scroll as either "up or down." If you turn on "legacy" mode, hooray, now you can move up and down as normal once again. But you can't move side to side. It's like the trackpad only has a Y axis, no longer any X axis. 

How long was this tested on the Dev server by the community for not having found blatant bugs like the +/- numbers for hit points. This seems like a move done for marketing, just to have something to advertise. Be careful, that's how Wizards of the Coast lost all their 3e and 3.5e customers by trying to appeal to new customers at the expense of the old ones. This was totally unnecessary, and not even tested. You know, not so long ago, Roll 20 used to be extremely reliable. I long for those days.

Mike Donovan said: How long was this tested on the Dev server by the community for not having found blatant bugs like the +/- numbers for hit points. This seems like a move done for marketing, just to have something to advertise. Be careful, that's how Wizards of the Coast lost all their 3e and 3.5e customers by trying to appeal to new customers at the expense of the old ones. This was totally unnecessary, and not even tested. You know, not so long ago, Roll 20 used to be extremely reliable. I long for those days. This update was on the server for 1 Week. The problem is, since it's on the Dev server and only available to pro users, it's a much smaller base than you might think. Additionally, this update is slightly different from the version we got on the dev server, allegedly.

Juniper that is ridiculous " If you used the scroll bar previously, right click should now give you better controls than before by right-clicking anywhere on the map and dragging." You have just seen a page full of people telling you that the right click + drag is NOT better than the scroll bars, in fact it is worse, for accessibility reasons, hardware reasons, and smoothness. And you have just decided they're what.. lying? Listen to people!!

Classic Roll20; I cringe every time the team pushes a half-tested update onto the community, because I know in my heart of hearts something will be off. The trackpad is entirely useless on my laptops, it's either choppy zoom or a terrible scroll. Having to hold a different button to simply move around the map is as counter-intuitive as it is asinine. This most definitely should've been tested further or waited until there was further feedback, maybe even a poll. The simple fact is you pushed an update with the intention of benefiting on a number of users, a number I'm confident that you have no idea of. You shoddily threw the idea together with minimal testing and feedback from the community at large. And even with the mixed feedback, you pushed this update live and instead of reverting things back until you've gotten this "feature" hammered out, you double down and give excuses.  Seriously, learn from your mistakes and get it together. Classic Roll20...

Rainy said: Mike Donovan said: How long was this tested on the Dev server by the community for not having found blatant bugs like the +/- numbers for hit points. This seems like a move done for marketing, just to have something to advertise. Be careful, that's how Wizards of the Coast lost all their 3e and 3.5e customers by trying to appeal to new customers at the expense of the old ones. This was totally unnecessary, and not even tested. You know, not so long ago, Roll 20 used to be extremely reliable. I long for those days. This update was on the server for 1 Week. The problem is, since it's on the Dev server and only available to pro users, it's a much smaller base than you might think. Additionally, this update is slightly different from the version we got on the dev server, allegedly. There must be no one still using the Dev Servers if in one week they never had to change hit points in any game or scroll left to right, or no one complained about the chunkiness or even the uselessness of this update. All that time working on that could have been spent fixing all the other bugs. 

I will pay money specifically to just use the old Zoom tool. This new tool is completely broken and makes the functionality of the site significantly worse. Please return the old zoom tool and please stop trying to fix things that work by replacing them with a worse tool that doesent work. This is HORRIBLE.Its imprecise, it makes me dizzy to look at, you cant properly scroll the screen anymore. Its just absolutely terrible. Please please please as a paying customer PLEASE return to the old system. Please please please do not force this on us. I dont understand why you want to make the site worse it makes no sense. I wanna clarify im on a desktop using a mouse, fixing the track pad wont help a thing. This is SO incredibly bad.

Rainy said: Mike Donovan said: How long was this tested on the Dev server by the community for not having found blatant bugs like the +/- numbers for hit points. This seems like a move done for marketing, just to have something to advertise. Be careful, that's how Wizards of the Coast lost all their 3e and 3.5e customers by trying to appeal to new customers at the expense of the old ones. This was totally unnecessary, and not even tested. You know, not so long ago, Roll 20 used to be extremely reliable. I long for those days. This update was on the server for 1 Week. The problem is, since it's on the Dev server and only available to pro users, it's a much smaller base than you might think. Additionally, this update is slightly different from the version we got on the dev server, allegedly. Time on the Dev server is not the issue. Poor Change Management Processes are.

Reporting a bug where I can no longer update hp values using a +/- value.

LOL please fix the hot key token bar issue! This is very annoying!

Holy crap, I can't get my screen to zoom into the level that I can visually see [20/400 vision] and side scroll... OMFG... I NEED it back the other way before Sat. game or I have no idea how I am going to bee able to see anything worth a crap... and the HP bubble... how else am I going to track hp?

There is a way to use the old version, under game settings you can use the legacy scroll. Thats a lie, its not the old system its the new system just without the Tourettes. But its still pretty terrible. Definitely miles better than the other version at least.

From what Im reading, it looks like people who need special accessibility are getting especially gobsmacked by this, which is just plain wrong. Not everyone can find a workaround that's functional, and to think otherwise is deluded. 

Mike Donovan said: Rainy said: Mike Donovan said: How long was this tested on the Dev server by the community for not having found blatant bugs like the +/- numbers for hit points. This seems like a move done for marketing, just to have something to advertise. Be careful, that's how Wizards of the Coast lost all their 3e and 3.5e customers by trying to appeal to new customers at the expense of the old ones. This was totally unnecessary, and not even tested. You know, not so long ago, Roll 20 used to be extremely reliable. I long for those days. This update was on the server for 1 Week. The problem is, since it's on the Dev server and only available to pro users, it's a much smaller base than you might think. Additionally, this update is slightly different from the version we got on the dev server, allegedly. There must be no one still using the Dev Servers if in one week they never had to change hit points in any game or scroll left to right, or no one complained about the chunkiness or even the uselessness of this update. All that time working on that could have been spent fixing all the other bugs.  The problem basically goes like this: "There is a new Zoom tool on the Dev server, test the Zoom tool!" People test the Zoom tool by zooming in and out, see it works ok, and don't test for any other bad interactions that may happen with anything else in the product, since nobody actually uses the dev server for any full games.

The map movement is not properly coupled to the zoom change... when you continue to zoom in once you're at max (250%), the map moves despite no zooming occuring. The zoom centering on cursor does not work properly... if you zoom all the way out, position the cursor on a token then spin the wheel to zoom, the cursor is nowhere near the token when the zoom judder stops... you're basically at a random place on the map.

What are are you guys on about? Me and my mate tested out the zoom and it works fine and is far smoother than that clunky mess we had before. Honestly, you all sound pretty entitled about a new update your unfamiliar with and dont like at first. No one here even gave it a proper chance. People are cancelling games over this? Seriously? This is a joke and you should be embarrassed for acting like children. I love roll20 and I think you all should not be so harsh.

Chuck, those of us that are paying money for this are absolutely entitled to get to use the old, better system that we have been paying for. Paying money for a service actually does entitle you to it's services. Also if you arent an obvious plant from the Dev team then the sky is green.

Chuck F. said: What are are you guys on about? Me and my mate tested out the zoom and it works fine and is far smoother than that clunky mess we had before. Honestly, you all sound pretty entitled about a new update your unfamiliar with and dont like at first. No one here even gave it a proper chance. People are cancelling games over this? Seriously? This is a joke and you should be embarrassed for acting like children. I love roll20 and I think you all should not be so harsh. " t  Member since 11/05/19 \/  G  GM of 0 games \/ 0 Hours Played \/ 1 Forum Posts"

I don't know about you but I love the new update. I never needed to use the scroll bar on the side. It works even better especially when using the mousepad. The roll20 devs obviously took the time to really consider all of this. Why would they push out something that is half baked when people put valuable money into this. I mean who would be the worst ones here, the ones that pay for roll20 and complain or roll20 developer themselves. In my personal opinion, its the players fault and need to be patient with the creators.

Trevor S. said: Chuck, those of us that are paying money for this are absolutely entitled to get to use the old, better system that we have been paying for. Paying money for a service actually does entitle you to it's services. I wouldn't give Chuck the dignity of a responce.  The account was made today and he has 0 hours.  If this isn't a troll this is roll20 staff trying, and failing, at damage control.

Missingno said: Trevor S. said: Chuck, those of us that are paying money for this are absolutely entitled to get to use the old, better system that we have been paying for. Paying money for a service actually does entitle you to it's services. I wouldn't give Chuck the dignity of a responce.  The account was made today and he has 0 hours.  If this isn't a troll this is roll20 staff trying, and failing, at damage control. I'd bet more on a jerk trying to stir the pot, since I doubt anyone on the dev team is this transparently stupid and willing to get people angry at the team.

Ben F. said: I don't know about you but I love the new update. I never needed to use the scroll bar on the side. It works even better especially when using the mousepad. The roll20 devs obviously took the time to really consider all of this. Why would they push out something that is half baked when people put valuable money into this. I mean who would be the worst ones here, the ones that pay for roll20 and complain or roll20 developer themselves. In my personal opinion, its the players fault and need to be patient with the creators. See this guy at least has 65 hours played, he's entitled to his opinion (which is wrong, but he's entitled to it).

I'm not a dev you people are so out of your minds. I made this account today because I forgot the password to my old one and had to make a new one so I could speak some sense into you people. Something you all seem to desperately need if this is how your treating people who are working hard for YOUR benefit.

Trevor S. said: Chrono said: Missingno said: Trevor S. said: Chuck, those of us that are paying money for this are absolutely entitled to get to use the old, better system that we have been paying for. Paying money for a service actually does entitle you to it's services. I wouldn't give Chuck the dignity of a responce.  The account was made today and he has 0 hours.  If this isn't a troll this is roll20 staff trying, and failing, at damage control. I'd bet more on a jerk trying to stir the pot, since I doubt anyone on the dev team is this transparently stupid and willing to get people angry at the team. The Roll20 staff is unbelievably stupid, theyve proven that many times over where have you been? Stupid in ways that involve the running of the website, not how human beings work.

Chuck F. said: I'm not a dev you people are so out of your minds. I made this account today because I forgot the password to my old one and had to make a new one so I could speak some sense into you people. Something you all seem to desperately need if this is how your treating people who are working hard for YOUR benefit. *for our money To be less blunt: A customer paying for a service is absolutely entitled to complain about that service, and the way it is being run. They are absolutely free to consider taking their business elsewhere. It is up to the provider to convince the customer they are worth spending money on, generally by taking said feedback and implementing it in a realistic way. Welcome to economics and capitalism 101, hope you enjoy your stay in reality.

Chrono said: Chuck F. said: What are are you guys on about? Me and my mate tested out the zoom and it works fine and is far smoother than that clunky mess we had before. Honestly, you all sound pretty entitled about a new update your unfamiliar with and dont like at first. No one here even gave it a proper chance. People are cancelling games over this? Seriously? This is a joke and you should be embarrassed for acting like children. I love roll20 and I think you all should not be so harsh. " t  Member since 11/05/19 \/  G  GM of 0 games \/ 0 Hours Played \/ 1 Forum Posts" :D

I would like my scrollbars back.

Ok, this is really bad... so the entire *point* of zoom being centered on the cursor is so that the cursor is in the same absolute position on the map after the zoom.  This is not at all what this update does.  What this seems to do is move the map in the same direction as the cursor is relative to the centre of the map, with some weird special explosions happening when the map is smaller than the window. Basically, this update doesn't even do what it says ("rolling the mouse wheel will zoom you in (or out) on wherever your mouse is pointing").  This doesn't occur, and it doesn't even occur in the animation in the announcement... after each zoom, the cursor is in a different square.

Trevor S. said: Chuck, those of us that are paying money for this are absolutely entitled to get to use the old, better system that we have been paying for. Paying money for a service actually does entitle you to it's services. This. We are paying $10 a month and we are absolutely entitled to a working product. To try and blame players for "not testing" enough, or to try and argue that we shouldn't be upset about an update that is quite obviously broken  is ludicrous. There is nothing  unreasonable about the sentiment of, "I am paying for this product, please make sure it works." If the Roll20 team did not do proper testing on this update and/or did not have the manpower to do so that is not  my problem - it is theirs. I think I have a right to be angry when the service I am paying for doesn't work correctly, and a pretty much bug (not being able to subtract/add hp to token bars) makes my games unplayable because of how my players and I have gotten used to running games on roll20. This is not a new thing. The last few updates by roll20 have been plagued by similar issues, and with the amount of money we are paying to use their service, that is not okay . This is not the first or even second time something like this has happened, and it's making me seriously consider whether I want to continue supporting this company.

While I appreciate the drive to get a new feature everyone on the team is excited about out the door, I think I need to agree that this needed more time in the oven. Here's my feedback from about 5 minutes use on my laptop: System Specs: MacOS Mojave Chrome  78.0.3904.87 Bugs Also seeing the inability to use +/- when editing token bubbles. This needs to be a priority fix as this is a basic function of the tokens and I'm sure I'm not alone in relying on it quite a lot. Jerky zoom/inability to stay focused on zoom point - This may not be the best description of the problem as the actual zoom in out is rather smooth. However, the map readjusts it's horizontal position after the zoom is no longer being actively modified. This is particularly noticeable when zooming in a range where the map is smaller than the VTT window. I think that unlocking the map area from the top left of the vtt would help solve this issue immensely, however it is also noticeable when zooming far in as the zoom point does not reflect where the view will be centered once zooming has been stopped. Trackpad support - There are several things wrong with the trackpad. Impossible to horizontal pan with a track pad - While the right click and drag does work on the trackpad, using shift-alt-scroll on the trackpad does nothing. This is the primary method I imagine most trackpad users pan around with. Most trackpads already have zoom support with a different gesture; it'd be nice if the trackpads swipes were still scroll/pan Feedback on form factor Going to repeat what I said in the dev server feedback thread . I believe that making Roll20 behave like google maps is the wrong decision. Roll20 is primarily an image editor. Regardless of what you decide with that though, the scroll bars NEED to come back. They are essential for informing the user where in the map they are. Because the VTT is a limited area, this is essential information and the scrollbars provide another form factor for controlling the pan/scroll of the map. Personally, I'll be using the legacy option, and I think this needs to be rolled back and given some more dev time and thought on some of the following: what the team's goals were with it what the community's desire for the feature is if there're features/bugs that are higher priority and should be addressed before making a drastic change to the form factor of the site. In relation to the last two bullet points; I can't see how many votes the suggestions referenced in the OP had before they were refunded, but all of those suggestions together had 20 responses (not including the Roll20 responses that it was live now). If the impetus behind this update was to take care of some low hanging fruit, there are numerous other suggestions with a much higher desire in the community that should be roughly as easy (or maybe even easier) to implement; Page folders  (and improved resource management in general ), Hover to see token details , True page duplication , Map pins , Adjustable Global Illumination level , Google Webfonts for character sheets  (Personally, this one is a huge deal), Dark mode for Roll20 , finish the external journal , and so many others. Each of these has over 200 votes (many more in some cases) and are either basically CSS fixes (e.g. dark mode) or simply improvements to already existing features. I appreciate the time you all put into maintaining and improving the platform, and hope that you take this as the constructive criticism it is intended as, Scott

"Need an update, +/- not working on tokens is incredibly frustrating.  Zoom is choppy and un-intuitive." +1