Honest question re: LGBTQ+ games

Hi everyone, as I've seen several player postings looking for games of this sort, as well as DMs advertising the same, I wanted to ask: what makes a game LGBTQ+ friendly ? In my experiences (which admittedly might be different from others'), sexuality doesn't play a huge part in the game; the characters I've DMd for don't generally pursue romance or sex. As a player, I haven't made a point of it either. Can anyone provide some insight ?

I would say, Stuff like identify oneself as one gender or another or none at all. I have meet people in my time playing that would absolutely refuse to identify someone other then there birth gender. Also, with any culture has theirs do and don't in them. This is common and knowing what they are shows you understand them and will follow them. Other than that knowing its a safe zone no off color jokes in game or not kinda deal. This is some of what I feel they mean by using that "LGBTQ+ friendly" I would assume there is more. But I am no expert so I let someone with more experience identify them. 

It's less in game and more out of game.  Some people out there don't feel comfortable playing with LGBTQ+ folks.  Marking something as LGBTQ+ friendly is a considerate thing that LGBTQ+ friendly folks do to let people know that they're tolerant of those groups and that those intolerant aren't welcome.  Basically if you're cool with a player in your group being a member of the LGBTQ+ community then you're LGBTQ+ friendly. Personally I never bother putting it on any of my games since I don't think it's necessary. But yeah, basically people mark those things to be considerate of all types. 

Those are great replies, thanks !

One factor for me is in-game, as a game that's LGBTQ+ friendly is a game where LGBTQ+ people exist  in the story. It doesn't have to be a matter of players pursuing or playing out relationships, but more in the sense of... Partnered shopkeepers might both be women, an NPC guardsman might ask the party to help rescue his husband, a noble might offer a hefty reward for the components of a spell for transitioning, and so on. After a while, it gets offputting if none of the characters and or relationships mentioned in a game are LGBTQ+, you know?  The other main factor would be like out-of-game, like mentioned above: what sorts of jokes and worldviews are welcome in the game, and what aren't. I won't have much fun playing with someone who tells me I will or should go to hell for being in a relationship - that's hostile and rude on their part. And even if they're not quite that overt about their feelings, they'll likely let it slip in other ways. A game that advertises as LGBTQ+ is, generally, a game where the participants refuse to permit that kind of behavior.

Ky S. said: One factor for me is in-game, as a game that's LGBTQ+ friendly is a game where LGBTQ+ people exist  in the story. It doesn't have to be a matter of players pursuing or playing out relationships, but more in the sense of... Partnered shopkeepers might both be women, an NPC guardsman might ask the party to help rescue his husband, a noble might offer a hefty reward for the components of a spell for transitioning, and so on. After a while, it gets offputting if none of the characters and or relationships mentioned in a game are LGBTQ+, you know?  The other main factor would be like out-of-game, like mentioned above: what sorts of jokes and worldviews are welcome in the game, and what aren't. I won't have much fun playing with someone who tells me I will or should go to hell for being in a relationship - that's hostile and rude on their part. And even if they're not quite that overt about their feelings, they'll likely let it slip in other ways. A game that advertises as LGBTQ+ is, generally, a game where the participants refuse to permit that kind of behavior. I would agree also I do not allow that type behavior in any of my games, even if not advertise as LGBTQ+friendly. Those type of players always ruin the fun. Religion should never be brought into game, well real life religion. The game religion such as in dnd books or pathfinders are usually ok.

Yes, I like what you said in the first part of your post, Ky. I've done that sort of thing before, including LGBTQ+ NPCs. But I've also had real life hetero players try to include some fairly graphic sex stuff in the game, and it was just weird and uncomfortable. I think I get though; my games have never been intolerant of gender, religion, sexual orientation ,etc...so I just wanted to know why people were being so specific about it here.

Ky S. said: One factor for me is in-game, as a game that's LGBTQ+ friendly is a game where LGBTQ+ people exist  in the story. It doesn't have to be a matter of players pursuing or playing out relationships, but more in the sense of... Partnered shopkeepers might both be women, an NPC guardsman might ask the party to help rescue his husband, a noble might offer a hefty reward for the components of a spell for transitioning, and so on. After a while, it gets offputting if none of the characters and or relationships mentioned in a game are LGBTQ+, you know?  The other main factor would be like out-of-game, like mentioned above: what sorts of jokes and worldviews are welcome in the game, and what aren't. I won't have much fun playing with someone who tells me I will or should go to hell for being in a relationship - that's hostile and rude on their part. And even if they're not quite that overt about their feelings, they'll likely let it slip in other ways. A game that advertises as LGBTQ+ is, generally, a game where the participants refuse to permit that kind of behavior. I would tend to agree with you but it is super tough for a straight DM to have those sorts of NPS. I am LGBTQ friendly in so much not allow negative behavior but I just cant see myself having those sorts of NPC's in my campaign. Does that make me unfriendly?

This post is definitely in the wrong area... but since it is here... DMing for numerous groups with different backgrounds I've never had an issue like this ever come up not in the slightest. For the D&D community as a whole this is really a non issue. Most of the published D&D modules (if not all) have diversity built into them. I understand needing to preface thing like "LGBTQ+ friendly" on other formats and games. But I really wish it was understood in the D&D community that it is already the standard.

GM Scott said: Ky S. said: One factor for me is in-game, as a game that's LGBTQ+ friendly is a game where LGBTQ+ people exist  in the story. It doesn't have to be a matter of players pursuing or playing out relationships, but more in the sense of... Partnered shopkeepers might both be women, an NPC guardsman might ask the party to help rescue his husband, a noble might offer a hefty reward for the components of a spell for transitioning, and so on. After a while, it gets offputting if none of the characters and or relationships mentioned in a game are LGBTQ+, you know?  The other main factor would be like out-of-game, like mentioned above: what sorts of jokes and worldviews are welcome in the game, and what aren't. I won't have much fun playing with someone who tells me I will or should go to hell for being in a relationship - that's hostile and rude on their part. And even if they're not quite that overt about their feelings, they'll likely let it slip in other ways. A game that advertises as LGBTQ+ is, generally, a game where the participants refuse to permit that kind of behavior. I would tend to agree with you but it is super tough for a straight DM to have those sorts of NPS. I am LGBTQ friendly in so much not allow negative behavior but I just cant see myself having those sorts of NPC's in my campaign. Does that make me unfriendly? What I try to do if I am running a LGBTQ+ for npc's. I try to avoid the relationship part, Because be honest I don't know much about it, and I am straight about that so they understand. But I do try to gear npc's more to there liking.  For example if group is of males that prefer males as lovers I would have alot more male npc than females. so forth.

GM Scott said: Ky S. said: One factor for me is in-game, as a game that's LGBTQ+ friendly is a game where LGBTQ+ people exist  in the story. It doesn't have to be a matter of players pursuing or playing out relationships, but more in the sense of... Partnered shopkeepers might both be women, an NPC guardsman might ask the party to help rescue his husband, a noble might offer a hefty reward for the components of a spell for transitioning, and so on. After a while, it gets offputting if none of the characters and or relationships mentioned in a game are LGBTQ+, you know?  The other main factor would be like out-of-game, like mentioned above: what sorts of jokes and worldviews are welcome in the game, and what aren't. I won't have much fun playing with someone who tells me I will or should go to hell for being in a relationship - that's hostile and rude on their part. And even if they're not quite that overt about their feelings, they'll likely let it slip in other ways. A game that advertises as LGBTQ+ is, generally, a game where the participants refuse to permit that kind of behavior. I would tend to agree with you but it is super tough for a straight DM to have those sorts of NPS. I am LGBTQ friendly in so much not allow negative behavior but I just cant see myself having those sorts of NPC's in my campaign. Does that make me unfriendly? That's a good question, and I can understand the discomfort, especially if it's a matter of preferring not to portray LGBTQ+ NPCs than to accidentally portray NPCs who are offensive stereotypes or something. I'd say there's a distinction between intentionally friendly,  like the examples I was raising as what I'd look for in a game,  intentionally unfriendly , like the unfortunate example I mentioned, and a sort of... abstaining neutrality? Which is what I get the impression you go for.  Some players will be happy with a DM who insists everyone treat each other respectfully in a no-religion, no-politics, no rudeness way. Other players will be happier with a DM who presents a world where things are portrayed or outright explored. One benefit of people putting the label up is it helps players to self-select for groups they think they'll be happier with.

Yeah, I think I'm more of a neutral abstainer myself, but I certainly don't run games that are hostile to anyone. "no-religion, no-politics, no rudeness" <---- basically that.

Dominic R. said: Yeah, I think I'm more of a neutral abstainer myself, but I certainly don't run games that are hostile to anyone. "no-religion, no-politics, no rudeness" <---- basically that. Honestly if you run a good game. That respects everyone and interesting to them.  Players will play it and everyone will have fun. And that is all that matters.

Agreed. Everyone's got their preferences and tastes, so no one game will appeal to every single person. But a well-run game, where people feel respected and are having fun, will always have interested players. 

GM Scott said: [...] it is super tough for a straight DM to have those sorts of NPS. I am LGBTQ friendly in so much not allow negative behavior but I just cant see myself having those sorts of NPC's in my campaign. Does that make me unfriendly? Potential Hot Take here that might get me more attention that is necessary: I want to take a moment to point out that there is a difference between being LGBTQ+ tolerant and LGBTQ+ friendly. You, Scott, sound like someone who is tolerant of those who identify somewhere within the LGBTQ+ umbrella.  I want to say that while this is nice, it's not the same as being friendly.  Stopping people from voicing bigotry is, frankly, the literal least anyone can do.  It's expected in polite society to stop people from disparaging others over traits they have no control over.  Presumably, you'd stop one player from disparaging another because of the latter's skin color or nationality or imperfect use of English (if that's the language you're running the game in) if it wasn't their first language.  Stopping someone from disparaging someone who is LGBTQ+ is what's expected of you and everyone else if you want to be perceived as a decent human (some people do, some people don't). I'm going to call you out on the claim that it's "super tough" to have non-heterosexual and/or non-cis NPCs.  Why?  What, to you, makes it's tough to have or portray these people?  Do you only populate your worlds with NPCs that are of the same sex as yourself, or do you populate it with at least two sexes?  Do you ignore multiple races, only to focus on one: humans?  Or do you run a gamut of races if the setting is appropriate? If you approach LGBTQ+ NPCs as something you're uncomfortable with, that's going to come through, regardless of how much you say you tolerate LGBTQ+ people.  It's important for people to see representations of themselves in the media they consume.  People of color want to see themselves in fantasy and as superheroes.  They want to see people who look like them being capable, being powerful.  They also like to see themselves reflected in the background, too.  They want to see people who are just... there.  Living, working, loving, struggling, triumphing, and everything else that humans experience.  LGBTQ+ want the same thing.  By choosing to not include those types of people as NPCs, you're not representing them.  You are being tolerant, but you are not being friendly. A LGBTQ+ friendly game, though, will include these people everywhere, and not just as after-though background characters, but as those who are in positions of power, who are going to interact with the players to give them quests, sell them items, and show them around town before sending them off on the group's next mission.  They are going to be regular people, too.  Their sexual or gender identities are going to matter just as much as they do for their cis, heterosexual counterparts: none.  But the point is that they're there--they are visible!!--and their relationships are mentioned, not with snide giggles or low whispers, but as normal.  Because that's what they are.  To include LGBTQ+ people in your world, to mention their relationships and appearance as normal is actually the friendly thing to do. To see someone advertise something as being specifically LGBTQ+ friendly, I would expect that not only would the one running the game be welcoming to those people, but that person would also populate the world with NPCs who reflect those identites.  There would be non-binary NPCs, trans NPCs, NPCs who are in same-sex relationships.  Those people exist, and they should be represented.  It's not difficult to do or portray.  In fact, it's really quite simple.  LGBTQ+ people are, you know, people.  If your NPC is a person, they can easily be LGBTQ+.

Innocence said: GM Scott said: [...] it is super tough for a straight DM to have those sorts of NPS. I am LGBTQ friendly in so much not allow negative behavior but I just cant see myself having those sorts of NPC's in my campaign. Does that make me unfriendly? Potential Hot Take here that might get me more attention that is necessary: I want to take a moment to point out that there is a difference between being LGBTQ+ tolerant and LGBTQ+ friendly. You, Scott, sound like someone who is tolerant of those who identify somewhere within the LGBTQ+ umbrella.  I want to say that while this is nice, it's not the same as being friendly.  Stopping people from voicing bigotry is, frankly, the literal least anyone can do.  It's expected in polite society to stop people from disparaging others over traits they have no control over.  Presumably, you'd stop one player from disparaging another because of the latter's skin color or nationality or imperfect use of English (if that's the language you're running the game in) if it wasn't their first language.  Stopping someone from disparaging someone who is LGBTQ+ is what's expected of you and everyone else if you want to be perceived as a decent human (some people do, some people don't). I'm going to call you out on the claim that it's "super tough" to have non-heterosexual and/or non-cis NPCs.  Why?  What, to you, makes it's tough to have or portray these people?  Do you only populate your worlds with NPCs that are of the same sex as yourself, or do you populate it with at least two sexes?  Do you ignore multiple races, only to focus on one: humans?  Or do you run a gamut of races if the setting is appropriate? If you approach LGBTQ+ NPCs as something you're uncomfortable with, that's going to come through, regardless of how much you say you tolerate LGBTQ+ people.  It's important for people to see representations of themselves in the media they consume.  People of color want to see themselves in fantasy and as superheroes.  They want to see people who look like them being capable, being powerful.  They also like to see themselves reflected in the background, too.  They want to see people who are just... there.  Living, working, loving, struggling, triumphing, and everything else that humans experience.  LGBTQ+ want the same thing.  By choosing to not include those types of people as NPCs, you're not representing them.  You are being tolerant, but you are not being friendly. A LGBTQ+ friendly game, though, will include these people everywhere, and not just as after-though background characters, but as those who are in positions of power, who are going to interact with the players to give them quests, sell them items, and show them around town before sending them off on the group's next mission.  They are going to be regular people, too.  Their sexual or gender identities are going to matter just as much as they do for their cis, heterosexual counterparts: none.  But the point is that they're there--they are visible!!--and their relationships are mentioned, not with snide giggles or low whispers, but as normal.  Because that's what they are.  To include LGBTQ+ people in your world, to mention their relationships and appearance as normal is actually the friendly thing to do. To see someone advertise something as being specifically LGBTQ+ friendly, I would expect that not only would the one running the game be welcoming to those people, but that person would also populate the world with NPCs who reflect those identites.  There would be non-binary NPCs, trans NPCs, NPCs who are in same-sex relationships.  Those people exist, and they should be represented.  It's not difficult to do or portray.  In fact, it's really quite simple.  LGBTQ+ people are, you know, people.  If your NPC is a person, they can easily be LGBTQ+. I do have a question for you. Its not meant to be mean or rude so please don't take it that way. But like I said before. "What I try to do if I am running a LGBTQ+ for npc's. I try to avoid the relationship part, Because be honest I don't know much about it, and I am straight about that so they understand. But I do try to gear npc's more to there liking.  For example if group is of males that prefer males as lovers I would have alot more male npc than females. so forth." I am not familiar with ins and out of a LGBTQ+ relationships. So I try not to emulate them and make a mistake to offend or miss represent them. And I am honest to people with that. I mean I do it out of respect. And I also feel prying into people lives is very rude and not cool. So trying be LGBTQ+freindly what should I do? And how should I approach it in game for npc's and such I run?

ShadowDragon said: I do have a question for you. Its not meant to be mean or rude so please don't take it that way. But like I said before. "What I try to do if I am running a LGBTQ+ for npc's. I try to avoid the relationship part, Because be honest I don't know much about it, and I am straight about that so they understand. But I do try to gear npc's more to there liking.  For example if group is of males that prefer males as lovers I would have alot more male npc than females. so forth." I am not familiar with ins and out of a LGBTQ+ relationships. So I try not to emulate them and make a mistake to offend or miss represent them. And I am honest to people with that. I mean I do it out of respect. And I also feel prying into people lives is very rude and not cool. So trying be LGBTQ+freindly what should I do? And how should I approach it in game for npc's and such I run? I'm going to give you a little insight into (healthy) same-sex relationships: they are the same as (healthy) different-sex ones.  They can be based on all the same things, and they experience all the same things, and they can end for all the same reasons.  The key to understanding a same-sex relationship is to understand what it means to be a human in a relationship.  There are good ones; there are bad ones; there are quirky and kinky and, sadly, abusive ones.  The idea that two guys or two women or two enbies (NB = non-binary) in a relationship is... different is just erroneous and silly.  Yes, there are fem dudes with butch guys, just as there are butch dudes who are together--same goes for any relationship.  Just as there isn't a single style of pairing for different-sex couples, there isn't a single one for same-sex couples.  I mean, who wants to live in a world with only Ward and June Cleaver? or the nightmare that would be the Joker and Harley Quinn?  Same-sex relationships aren't unicorns.  They exist, and they are as simple, and complex, as any different-sex one. The only thing that is truly different is how society perceives and accepts them.  In the real world, there are plenty of places where same-sex couples can literally be killed for being together.  If you want your world to be that way, who am I to stop you?   You do you.  However, if you want your world to be a place where such things are commonplace and barely worth mentioning, then make that the world your players are in.  Just let them exist. And you know what?  It's okay to stumble. Just be open to critiques.  Stay away from stereotypes and, really, you should be golden! Again: not unicorns.  Just normal.

damn I'm so proud of all the DMs out there... I have a hard time just giving my NPCs general personality traits like What they like What they dislike shoot usually I just think Teifling or dwarf or human or w/e i've never had one of my players during a trip to a shop keeper...  Player "so this individual is a dwarf? what color skin do they have?"  DM "Brown" Player "yeah but what shade of brown" DM "Um light brown... you feel like they are a hill dwarf but you don't have a lot of experience being around dwarfs so you cant be sure..." Player "does it look like a he or a she?" DM " well again you are unfamiliar with dwarves based on your background and being that (in this world) both male and female dwarves have beards you are unsure..." player: "can I roll to see if I can determine their gender?" DM "sure roll a straight wisdom check..." player " *roll D20 and result is *1*" DM "based off your roll you discern that this is a male dwarf" player "can I sit around are see how other individuals address this dwarf" DM "Sure you sit around for about 30 minutes and notice a few people refer to the dwarf as ... friend..neighbor.. and one person called the dwarf Sam"  Player " alright I wanna go up to the dwarf and say "hi Sam I would like to buy some rope" DM " okay as you go up the Dwarf places some rope on the counter and says "that will be 5 silver" I've just never had this happen to me before and I just run the Published content from D&D as written and they have a variety of different relationship intertwines into the story. My players and I just want to play a game and sexuality doesn't come up on a normal bases. Theses types of conversations seems so off from the VAST MAJORITY of D&D games i've ever known. I have played D&D with so many people and EXACTLY ZERO time has this been an issue. Why cant we all just have fun and play a game?

Innocence said: ShadowDragon said: I do have a question for you. Its not meant to be mean or rude so please don't take it that way. But like I said before. "What I try to do if I am running a LGBTQ+ for npc's. I try to avoid the relationship part, Because be honest I don't know much about it, and I am straight about that so they understand. But I do try to gear npc's more to there liking.  For example if group is of males that prefer males as lovers I would have alot more male npc than females. so forth." I am not familiar with ins and out of a LGBTQ+ relationships. So I try not to emulate them and make a mistake to offend or miss represent them. And I am honest to people with that. I mean I do it out of respect. And I also feel prying into people lives is very rude and not cool. So trying be LGBTQ+freindly what should I do? And how should I approach it in game for npc's and such I run? I'm going to give you a little insight into (healthy) same-sex relationships: they are the same as (healthy) different-sex ones.  They can be based on all the same things, and they experience all the same things, and they can end for all the same reasons.  The key to understanding a same-sex relationship is to understand what it means to be a human in a relationship.  There are gone ones; there are bad ones; there are quirky and kinky and, sadly, abusive ones.  The idea that two guys or two women or two enbies (NB = non-binary) in a relationship is... different is just erroneous and silly.  Yes, there are fem dudes with butch guys, just as there are butch dudes who are together--same goes for any relationship.  Just as there isn't a single style of pairing for different-sex couples, there is a single one for same-sex couples.  I mean, who wants to live in a world with only Ward and June Cleaver? or the nightmare that would be the Joker and Harley Quinn?  Same-sex relationships aren't unicorns.  They exist, and they are as simple, and complex, as any different-sex one. The only thing that is truly different is how society perceives and accepts them.  In the real world, there are plenty of places where same-sex couples can literally be killed for being together.  If you want your world to be that way, who am I to stop you?   You do you.  However, if you want your world to be a place where such things are commonplace and barely worth mentioning, then make that the world your players are in.  Just let them exist. And you know what?  It's okay to stumble. Just be open to critiques.  Stay away from stereotypes and, really, you should be golden! Again: not unicorns.  Just normal. I honestly wouldn't want anyone killed over there beliefs or being together. And I would never run a game that involves that. And about relationships Being same as none LGBTQ+ theirs my weakness tbh. I have certain reasons I wont go into here but there I am am a novice also. I try my best to present stuff to my players just without experience its hard. But I thank you for taking time to replay and help me in this subject. I just wana run games everyone enjoys and we all have fun and no one feels threaten or ignored on how they feel and believe in.

Periculant said: damn I'm so proud of all the DMs out there... I have a hard time just giving my NPCs general personality traits like What they like What they dislike shoot usually I just think Teifling or dwarf or human or w/e i've never had one of my players during a trip to a shop keeper...  Player "so this individual is a dwarf? what color skin do they have?"  DM "Brown" Player "yeah but what shade of brown" DM "Um light brown... you feel like they are a hill dwarf but you don't have a lot of experience being around dwarfs so you cant be sure..." Player "does it look like a he or a she?" DM " well again you are unfamiliar with dwarves based on your background and being that (in this world) both male and female dwarves have beards you are unsure..." player: "can I roll to see if I can determine their gender?" DM "sure roll a straight wisdom check..." player " *roll D20 and result is *1*" DM "based off your roll you discern that this is a male dwarf" player "can I sit around are see how other individuals address this dwarf" DM "Sure you sit around for about 30 minutes and notice a few people refer to the dwarf as ... friend..neighbor.. and one person called the dwarf Sam"  Player " alright I wanna go up to the dwarf and say "hi Sam I would like to buy some rope" DM " okay as you go up the Dwarf places some rope on the counter and says "that will be 5 silver" I've just never had this happen to me before and I just run the Published content from D&D as written and they have a variety of different relationship intertwines into the story. My players and I just want to play a game and sexuality doesn't come up on a normal bases. Theses types of conversations seems so off from the VAST MAJORITY of D&D games i've ever known. I have played D&D with so many people and EXACTLY ZERO time has this been an issue. Why cant we all just have fun and play a game? I agree we should have fun playing a game and such. But with everything there is always sometimes people that fall under the hate banner. This includes Dnd and such and a honestly a open, mature convo about it helps GM's even players in this fact. And sometime people need that.

Periculant said: damn I'm so proud of all the DMs out there... I have a hard time just giving my NPCs general personality traits like What they like What they dislike shoot usually I just think Teifling or dwarf or human or w/e i've never had one of my players during a trip to a shop keeper...  Player "so this individual is a dwarf? what color skin do they have?"  DM "Brown" Player "yeah but what shade of brown" DM "Um light brown... you feel like they are a hill dwarf but you don't have a lot of experience being around dwarfs so you cant be sure..." Player "does it look like a he or a she?" DM " well again you are unfamiliar with dwarves based on your background and being that (in this world) both male and female dwarves have beards you are unsure..." player: "can I roll to see if I can determine their gender?" DM "sure roll a straight wisdom check..." player " *roll D20 and result is *1*" DM "based off your roll you discern that this is a male dwarf" player "can I sit around are see how other individuals address this dwarf" DM "Sure you sit around for about 30 minutes and notice a few people refer to the dwarf as ... friend..neighbor.. and one person called the dwarf Sam"  Player " alright I wanna go up to the dwarf and say "hi Sam I would like to buy some rope" DM " okay as you go up the Dwarf places some rope on the counter and says "that will be 5 silver" I've just never had this happen to me before and I just run the Published content from D&D as written and they have a variety of different relationship intertwines into the story. My players and I just want to play a game and sexuality doesn't come up on a normal bases. Theses types of conversations seems so off from the VAST MAJORITY of D&D games i've ever known. I have played D&D with so many people and EXACTLY ZERO time has this been an issue. Why cant we all just have fun and play a game? I want to be respectful here, but the above is simply reductio ad absurdum .  There's nothing to the above scenario if all the player wanted to do was buy some rope.  If anything, the player in this scenario is just being odd and even creepy, especially if all they want to do is buy rope.  Why does that player want to know more about the dwarf than what they charge for rope?  It's a ridiculous example and one that doesn't illustrate a point. Also, I doubt sexuality never comes up in your adventures.  Has no NPC ever referenced their spouse?  Someone they fancy?  Heternormativity is so pervasive that people don't even notice when it's all around them.  It's great that you think you and your friends are playing a game without any such references in it.  But that's highly unlikely; you just don't notice them.

Innocence said: Periculant said: damn I'm so proud of all the DMs out there... I have a hard time just giving my NPCs general personality traits like What they like What they dislike shoot usually I just think Teifling or dwarf or human or w/e i've never had one of my players during a trip to a shop keeper...  Player "so this individual is a dwarf? what color skin do they have?"  DM "Brown" Player "yeah but what shade of brown" DM "Um light brown... you feel like they are a hill dwarf but you don't have a lot of experience being around dwarfs so you cant be sure..." Player "does it look like a he or a she?" DM " well again you are unfamiliar with dwarves based on your background and being that (in this world) both male and female dwarves have beards you are unsure..." player: "can I roll to see if I can determine their gender?" DM "sure roll a straight wisdom check..." player " *roll D20 and result is *1*" DM "based off your roll you discern that this is a male dwarf" player "can I sit around are see how other individuals address this dwarf" DM "Sure you sit around for about 30 minutes and notice a few people refer to the dwarf as ... friend..neighbor.. and one person called the dwarf Sam"  Player " alright I wanna go up to the dwarf and say "hi Sam I would like to buy some rope" DM " okay as you go up the Dwarf places some rope on the counter and says "that will be 5 silver" I've just never had this happen to me before and I just run the Published content from D&D as written and they have a variety of different relationship intertwines into the story. My players and I just want to play a game and sexuality doesn't come up on a normal bases. Theses types of conversations seems so off from the VAST MAJORITY of D&D games i've ever known. I have played D&D with so many people and EXACTLY ZERO time has this been an issue. Why cant we all just have fun and play a game? I want to be respectful here, but the above is simply reductio ad absurdum .  There's nothing to the above scenario if all the player wanted to do was buy some rope.  If anything, the player in this scenario is just being odd and even creepy, especially if all they want to do is buy rope.  Why does that player want to know more about the dwarf than what they charge for rope?  It's a ridiculous example and one that doesn't illustrate a point. Also, I doubt sexuality never comes up in your adventures.  Has no NPC ever referenced their spouse?  Someone they fancy?  Heternormativity is so pervasive that people don't even notice when it's all around them.  It's great that you think you and your friends are playing a game without any such references in it.  But that's highly unlikely; you just don't notice them. Like I said only thing I agree with was "Why cant we all just have fun and play a game?" But this is a convo some people need. Its not to pass judgement or be a jerk. But some people like me, it helps them understand more and learn more.

I honestly wouldn't want anyone killed over there beliefs or being together. And I would never run a game that involves that. And about relationships Being same as none LGBTQ+ theirs my weakness tbh. I have certain reasons I wont go into here but there I am am a novice also. I try my best to present stuff to my players just without experience its hard. But I thank you for taking time to replay and help me in this subject. I just wana run games everyone enjoys and we all have fun and no one feels threaten or ignored on how they feel and believe in. That is perfectly fine. You can omit relationships in general if you feel uncomfortable/inexperienced with them and that doesn't make you any less tolerant or friendly. I have had DM's in the past ask me if they thought that they should add in lgbtq npc's into games when they find out I like dudes and i just tell them that they don't have to build their worlds for me. If they do eventually put some in cool, if not whatever i ain't looking to have a fake romance with imaginary characters. Just be aware you will eventually DM for an omnisexual bard who will try to sleep with everything, everyone always has to dm for atleast one in their career

ShadowDragon said: And about relationships Being same as none LGBTQ+ theirs my weakness tbh. I have certain reasons I wont go into here but there I am am a novice also. I try my best to present stuff to my players just without experience its hard. But I thank you for taking time to replay and help me in this subject. I just wana run games everyone enjoys and we all have fun and no one feels threaten or ignored on how they feel and believe in. You know what?  That's okay. You know why?  Because you're playing a game of make believe. The NPCs aren't real.  The monsters aren't real either.  Hell, the PCs aren't real.  None of it is real. However, you have an imagination and plenty of references to draw from.  You want to pull a relationship that many find tragic (or just plain idiotic)?  Then mimic Romeo and Juliet.  Want something that is both supportive and quirky?  Look to Morticia and Gomez Addams.  Do you want the players to get involved in a will-they-won't-they pairing?  Then it's Ross and Rachel. You don't have to have been in a relationship to know what it's like.  Pop culture and literature is lousy with the stuff!  It's everywhere!  Read classics, watch movies and TV, observe people in the street.  There is inspiration everywhere!!  Good, bad, and all the messy and wonderful stuff in between! I presume you aren't an eldritch horror, bent on the enslavement of mankind and its eventual eradication.  But I bet you could play one in a game.  It's no different for relationships.  What do the people want?  Are they getting it?  How are they handling that? Use your imagination; it's why you have it!

Happy New Year all you roll20 denizens lol.

ShadowDragon said: Like I said only thing I agree with was"Why cant we all just have fun and play a game?"But this is a convo some people need. Its not to pass judgement or be a jerk. But some people like me, it helps them understand more and learn more It's great that you wanted to start that convo. And you did the best thing you could do you asked, of course you are always gonna get different answers but it's each one will help you learn

ShadowDragon said: Periculant said: damn I'm so proud of all the DMs out there... I have a hard time just giving my NPCs general personality traits like What they like What they dislike shoot usually I just think Teifling or dwarf or human or w/e i've never had one of my players during a trip to a shop keeper...  Player "so this individual is a dwarf? what color skin do they have?"  DM "Brown" Player "yeah but what shade of brown" DM "Um light brown... you feel like they are a hill dwarf but you don't have a lot of experience being around dwarfs so you cant be sure..." Player "does it look like a he or a she?" DM " well again you are unfamiliar with dwarves based on your background and being that (in this world) both male and female dwarves have beards you are unsure..." player: "can I roll to see if I can determine their gender?" DM "sure roll a straight wisdom check..." player " *roll D20 and result is *1*" DM "based off your roll you discern that this is a male dwarf" player "can I sit around are see how other individuals address this dwarf" DM "Sure you sit around for about 30 minutes and notice a few people refer to the dwarf as ... friend..neighbor.. and one person called the dwarf Sam"  Player " alright I wanna go up to the dwarf and say "hi Sam I would like to buy some rope" DM " okay as you go up the Dwarf places some rope on the counter and says "that will be 5 silver" I've just never had this happen to me before and I just run the Published content from D&D as written and they have a variety of different relationship intertwines into the story. My players and I just want to play a game and sexuality doesn't come up on a normal bases. Theses types of conversations seems so off from the VAST MAJORITY of D&D games i've ever known. I have played D&D with so many people and EXACTLY ZERO time has this been an issue. Why cant we all just have fun and play a game? I agree we should have fun playing a game and such. But with everything there is always sometimes people that fall under the hate banner. This includes Dnd and such and a honestly a open, mature convo about it helps GM's even players in this fact. And sometime people need that. absolutely, IF someone (atleast one) has ever had this issue on roll20... then the conversation is valid... I've never personally had someone attack someone in one of my game and I have never even heard second hand that it has happened to someone on roll 20 not once. Even on this forum here everything is theoretical and nothing has ever happened to anyone. The end state for the LGBTQ+ community has to be that they are treated like any other person in society and in the D&D community that is already the standard. So we are bringing into the D&D and Roll20 community that it is not the standard when there is no evidence that it isn't. Thus holding back the progression of the LGBTQ+ community to become normalized (if nothing else in the D&D and roll20 community). Again if people are being attack on roll20 then this is a valid conversation... but if not then we are holding back the natural progression of society and our community.

Craig C.  said: I honestly wouldn't want anyone killed over there beliefs or being together. And I would never run a game that involves that. And about relationships Being same as none LGBTQ+ theirs my weakness tbh. I have certain reasons I wont go into here but there I am am a novice also. I try my best to present stuff to my players just without experience its hard. But I thank you for taking time to replay and help me in this subject. I just wana run games everyone enjoys and we all have fun and no one feels threaten or ignored on how they feel and believe in. That is perfectly fine. You can omit relationships in general if you feel uncomfortable/inexperienced with them and that doesn't make you any less tolerant or friendly. I have had DM's in the past ask me if they thought that they should add in lgbtq npc's into games when they find out I like dudes and i just tell them that they don't have to build their worlds for me. If they do eventually put some in cool, if not whatever i ain't looking to have a fake romance with imaginary characters. Just be aware you will eventually DM for an omnisexual bard who will try to sleep with everything, everyone always has to dm for atleast one in their career tyvm and lmao on bard comment loved it. Innocence said: ShadowDragon said: And about relationships Being same as none LGBTQ+ theirs my weakness tbh. I have certain reasons I wont go into here but there I am am a novice also. I try my best to present stuff to my players just without experience its hard. But I thank you for taking time to replay and help me in this subject. I just wana run games everyone enjoys and we all have fun and no one feels threaten or ignored on how they feel and believe in. You know what?  That's okay. You know why?  Because you're playing a game of make believe. The NPCs aren't real.  The monsters aren't real either.  Hell, the PCs aren't real.  None of it is real. However, you have an imagination and plenty of references to draw from.  You want to pull a relationship that many find tragic (or just plain idiotic)?  Then mimic Romeo and Juliet.  Want something that is both supportive and quirky?  Look to Morticia and Gomez Addams.  Do you want the players to get involved in a will-they-won't-they pairing?  Then it's Ross and Rachel. You don't have to have been in a relationship to know what it's like.  Pop culture and literature is lousy with the stuff!  It's everywhere!  Read classics, watch movies and TV, observe people in the street.  There is inspiration everywhere!!  Good, bad, and all the messy and wonderful stuff in between! I presume you aren't an eldritch horror, bent on the enslavement of mankind and its eventual eradication.  But I bet you could play one in a game.  It's no different for relationships.  What do the people want?  Are they getting it?  How are they handling that? Use your imagination; it's why you have it! ty for your understanding. I usually draw from anime for that stuff that's what i mostly watch. I am not big TV fan on normal TV and stuff.

Craig C. said: Just be aware you will eventually DM for an omnisexual bard who will try to sleep with everything, everyone always has to dm for atleast one in their career No bards as of yet, but how it's worked out for me so far is this: *lengthy (or not) introduction to an NPC who is going to give them a quest or help the players complete their current one* Player "What is she (or he)?" Me: "I hate you guys..." pause Me: reluctantly "She's (or He's) a solid 8 out of 10." Players: * cheer* Me: * eye roll*

Periculant said: ShadowDragon said: Periculant said: damn I'm so proud of all the DMs out there... I have a hard time just giving my NPCs general personality traits like What they like What they dislike shoot usually I just think Teifling or dwarf or human or w/e i've never had one of my players during a trip to a shop keeper...  Player "so this individual is a dwarf? what color skin do they have?"  DM "Brown" Player "yeah but what shade of brown" DM "Um light brown... you feel like they are a hill dwarf but you don't have a lot of experience being around dwarfs so you cant be sure..." Player "does it look like a he or a she?" DM " well again you are unfamiliar with dwarves based on your background and being that (in this world) both male and female dwarves have beards you are unsure..." player: "can I roll to see if I can determine their gender?" DM "sure roll a straight wisdom check..." player " *roll D20 and result is *1*" DM "based off your roll you discern that this is a male dwarf" player "can I sit around are see how other individuals address this dwarf" DM "Sure you sit around for about 30 minutes and notice a few people refer to the dwarf as ... friend..neighbor.. and one person called the dwarf Sam"  Player " alright I wanna go up to the dwarf and say "hi Sam I would like to buy some rope" DM " okay as you go up the Dwarf places some rope on the counter and says "that will be 5 silver" I've just never had this happen to me before and I just run the Published content from D&D as written and they have a variety of different relationship intertwines into the story. My players and I just want to play a game and sexuality doesn't come up on a normal bases. Theses types of conversations seems so off from the VAST MAJORITY of D&D games i've ever known. I have played D&D with so many people and EXACTLY ZERO time has this been an issue. Why cant we all just have fun and play a game? I agree we should have fun playing a game and such. But with everything there is always sometimes people that fall under the hate banner. This includes Dnd and such and a honestly a open, mature convo about it helps GM's even players in this fact. And sometime people need that. absolutely, IF someone (atleast one) has ever had this issue on roll20... then the conversation is valid... I've never personally had someone attack someone in one of my game and I have never even heard second hand that it has happened to someone on roll 20 not once. Even on this forum here everything is theoretical and nothing has ever happened to anyone. The end state for the LGBTQ+ community has to be that they are treated like any other person in society and in the D&D community that is already the standard. So we are bringing into the D&D and Roll20 community that it is not the standard when there is no evidence that it isn't. Thus holding back the progression of the LGBTQ+ community to become normalized (if nothing else in the D&D and roll20 community). Again if people are being attack on roll20 then this is a valid conversation... but if not then we are holding back the natural progression of society and our community. I have seen incidents on roll20 before myself. I remember one post where a player is looking for a LGBTQ+ game. And someone responded in a hateful manor. Saying you cant do this under rules and such. Then go into the fact he/she is working against there own cause. I think that person was banned. and post closed. But yes i have seen some. Edit: the responded was banned not original poster

Periculant said: The end state for the LGBTQ+ community has to be that they are treated like any other person in society and in the D&D community that is already the standard. So we are bringing into the D&D and Roll20 community that it is not the standard when there is no evidence that it isn't. Thus holding back the progression of the LGBTQ+ community to become normalized (if nothing else in the D&D and roll20 community). Again if people are being attack on roll20 then this is a valid conversation... but if not then we are holding back the natural progression of society and our community. I wholly disagree here.  Not talking about the LGBTQ+ community doesn't imply acceptance any more than not talking about the treatment of women or people of color means either sexism or racism is gone.  It's easy to ignore issues if they are not problems to you.  But that doesn't mean they don't exist.  Talking about these issues, especially if someone has a genuine question like the original poster did, is great and they should be talked about. It'd be nice if all these things were just generally accepted or otherwise not issues both in this space as well as in the real world.  But that's not the world we live in.  We need to have these conversations.

But as end note I thank everyone that answered my questions and i also hope @Dominic R you got your questioned answered also. everyone have a happy new year and have great games this year.

As a professional DM I have never and will never mark my games as LGBTQ+ friendly as I firmly believe that that is and should be the default setting for every group and that any group that feels otherwise should be the ones that have to mark themselves as different from the rest. Something like; [LFP] [Bigots welcome] just to let everyone know.

Craig C. said: I honestly wouldn't want anyone killed over there beliefs or being together. And I would never run a game that involves that. And about relationships Being same as none LGBTQ+ theirs my weakness tbh. I have certain reasons I wont go into here but there I am am a novice also. I try my best to present stuff to my players just without experience its hard. But I thank you for taking time to replay and help me in this subject. I just wana run games everyone enjoys and we all have fun and no one feels threaten or ignored on how they feel and believe in. That is perfectly fine. You can omit relationships in general if you feel uncomfortable/inexperienced with them and that doesn't make you any less tolerant or friendly. I have had DM's in the past ask me if they thought that they should add in lgbtq npc's into games when they find out I like dudes and i just tell them that they don't have to build their worlds for me. If they do eventually put some in cool, if not whatever i ain't looking to have a fake romance with imaginary characters. Just be aware you will eventually DM for an omnisexual bard who will try to sleep with everything, everyone always has to dm for atleast one in their career Hey just wana clear up what I meant by tyvm. Was very late at night so wasn't fully thinking. The tyvm is meant to be tyvm for understanding. So sorry if it seemed rude.

I didn't think there was any kind of rude intent behind it at all. I figured you genuinely thankful

I love that my post generated such insightful discussion ! It's hard for me to put into words what I had been thinking of initially, but all of these posts answered my questions adequately. I typically run mature games, which include themes that require a level of maturity to address properly; actually, sexual orientation isn't the hardest thing for me to handle in-game. In many cultures of antiquity (that fantasy settings tend to draw from), sexual orientation was more fluid. I run a gritty "film noir" style campaign featuring Azorius characters in Ravnica, and the more difficult things to handle in a campaign like that are things like murder, torture, sexual abuse, demonic influence... Anyway, thanks everyone !

GM Scott said: I would tend to agree with you but it is super tough for a straight DM to have those sorts of NPS. I don't think this is necessarily true. I bill all my games as inclusive. I run, as needed, whatever combination of gender and preference is called for. Sure, as a straight white male I may not have the experience to make 100% hyperaccurate portrayals, but that's no reason not to put it out there. I do my best, take feedback when offered and play on. My game have, over the years, drawn and kept players who identify as LGBTQ+, so I figure I must not be too bad at it. Certainly better today than the first time the question came up, about... 15 years ago? This all just evolved, it wasn't something I set out to do. I started out without a clue, just running stories of adventure. Over the years, relationships evolved, becoming part of the stories. When players sought specific relationships for their characters, I did what I could to accommodate them. So, Rich gets a boyfriend, Kat gets a girlfriend, both eventually marry their respective partners during downtime moments, mentioned in narration because no-one in the group wanted to RP weddings. Then meteors strike the city and Rich and Kat have to power up and save the day because that's what we're really all doing together for those four hours every week. That said, in most situations, there is very little different in playing a homosexual fighter compared to a heterosexual one. The sword doesn't care about who's holding it. (Well... occasionally a sword might care, but then you have bigger problems...) I've had people DM me here, suggesting I'd get more players if I stop including "Inclusive" or "LGBTQ+" in my listings. I have one guy on here suggest that the only reason to include tags like that was because I and all my players were extreme extroverts looking to play out kinky fetishes. But the real reason is much less farcical: I want players to know I care about making safe spaces, and I want warn players who want to make spaces unsafe that their shenanigans aren't welcome.

The Dungeon Master said: As a professional DM I have never and will never mark my games as LGBTQ+ friendly as I firmly believe that that is and should be the default setting for every group and that any group that feels otherwise should be the ones that have to mark themselves as different from the rest. Something like; [LFP] [Bigots welcome] just to let everyone know. I agree this should be the default expectation. But it isn't. It took a while (and some patient explaining by my daughter to her clueless old daddy) to really get this, but it's important to stand up and say, hey, you're a person and what you value matters and I won't tolerate anyone who tries to tell you otherwise in my games or near me in the park, or on the bus, or at the movie theater, or anywhere else. So I list my games accordingly, because the world isn't (yet) as it should be, and some things can't just be assumed, they have to be assured.

Just a quick note to say, I truly enjoyed reading all the questions and responses and the amount of respect and honesty that I saw in all of it. I love that DND as a general rule is very inclusive of all parties regardless of what we are talking about in terms of what makes them unique.