Every LFP is an Ad

All of the Paid games are just Ads for a person looking for players to pay them to DM. It at this point drowns out free games if they even exist anymore. I suggest roll20 make two subforums, one for paid and one for free, to make it easy to find games. The paid forum can have each person Thread operate like their Market Stall, so they can hawk their wares there. if this does not belong here then please move it to wherever it should be to be seen. thanks. (searching Free does not mean all free games will show, as not all free games mark themself as such, some just list their game.)

I feel this in my bones.

I technically run a paid game... but i just ask my players pay for my pro account. Thats it.

I submitted feedback on enhancing the search engine twice...but literally no one else who uses these forums apparently needs such search filters because each time they were closed after no one did a “+1” lol.  That said I have been DMing since the 70’s.  For free.  As a result my docket is pretty full.  But I can say there are a few others like me on here.   Course when I retire I may start running paid games :) the free games tend to have a lot of no-call no-shows.  

The reason why there's a lot of no call no shows is because nobody knows that DND and all of the other things that are related to it are more of a commitment then just show up when you want to and have fun.

LordCrimson45 said: The reason why there's a lot of no call no shows is because nobody knows that DND and all of the other things that are related to it are more of a commitment then just show up when you want to and have fun. Amen to that. I'm not a paid DM by any stretch (making this into my job would almost certainly suck the fun right out of it), but I've run enough one-shots for various meetups in my area to know that players, by and large, treat DMs like any other commodity... We're basically entertainment that they can turn on when they need a little amusement, and turn off again (or ignore altogether) just as quickly. You don't promise your PlayStation that you'll be there promptly at 7pm with you character completely built and ready to play; you don't apologize to Netflix when you miss the third session in a row without any warning. Frankly, I do find the proliferation of paid games a little annoying (particularly when the paid DMs start spamming others' thread to hawk their wares), but part of me doesn't begrudge someone who says to themselves "if I'm going to be treated like a subscription service, I might as well charge a subscription fee".

Yeah I have to agree. Put on top of the paid side of stuff. You're also sucking the fun out of the players to if you're having to pay a GM. And depending on how you pay them there might be a time where you might not have work. For example last month and this month the Coronavirus. If you're paying weekly or bi-weekly that's going to be tough for the players depending on what their job is. And they might need that money more for their own needs but that means they miss out on DND. And depending who the GM is that might get you kicked out of the whole campaign because either you missed a few sessions or you couldn't pay.

A few of them are literally so bad, like this one guy was trying to sell a service where he set up dynamic lighting for people.

I really don't understand the dynamic lighting honestly it's annoying. Just use the damn layers tool that the game gives you. If you don't want your players to see the enemies. I personally as a player find the dynamic lighting quite annoying since you can't spin the map around

LordCrimson45 said: Yeah I have to agree. Put on top of the paid side of stuff. You're also sucking the fun out of the players to if you're having to pay a GM. And depending on how you pay them there might be a time where you might not have work. For example last month and this month the Coronavirus. If you're paying weekly or bi-weekly that's going to be tough for the players depending on what their job is. And they might need that money more for their own needs but that means they miss out on DND. And depending who the GM is that might get you kicked out of the whole campaign because either you missed a few sessions or you couldn't pay. Which, to be honest, also seems fair (at least to a degree); D&D isn't a necessity, and if a person's choices are between buying D&D and buying food, I'm going to recommend going the food route, just as I would if the choice was between Netflix and food. And a service is a service... if you don't pay for it, you don't get it. The solution to this problem is, as is the case with most of the solutions to the Big Problems, one that no one wants to acknowledge: more free DMs. How many posts have you read here that basically amount to "I'm going to sit here and wait for you to show up and run Curse of Strahd for me and my friends"? I've heard 'em all -- "I don't know the rules well enough, prepping games takes time I don't have, what if the players want to do something I'm not prepared for" -- and none of them ring true, because there are people out there who sucked it up, grabbed the DMG, and started doing it. And mistakes were made, games fell flat in some places, players' wildest power-trip-wish-fulfillment fantasies went unmet. Damn shame, that, but someone put forward the effort, someone tried, and someone learned the ropes of DMing and, as a result, they'll be able to do it again next time, and again after that... They're a DM now. Bottom line is that people can charge for the shit we don't want to do. Don't want to mow your own lawn? Pay someone to do it. Don't want to go grocery shopping? Pay someone to deliver. Don't want to run a game? Pay a DM to do it for you. As long as gamers are too lazy to fill what is arguably the most important position at any game table, those few who have taken it upon themselves to learn this relatively simple and straightforward skill (really, how much talent does it take to read encounters from "Descent into Avernus"?) will be able to charge for it. Wanna wipe out the paid DMs? Flood the market with free DMs until it's no longer cost-effective to charge for games.

Yep, things like reading the game rules (My games have a RSVP under README first) “as this is a bit of work please find the ten seconds in the next 2 weeks to send a msg if you cannot show so someone else who want to play may join.” And we also have a three strikes rule.  It’s how I got a core group that’s held for a decade and more.  And basic common courtesy, or if they are reliable, “Yes I promise I will be there, after you spent a week organizing the event for us,” just does not fly these days.   Sadly all of these are unreasonable expectations in an era where folks pay for things they don’t use and don’t value other people’s efforts when they aren’t charged.   Quite a shift from the old gamer community.  Feels like we lost something.   But we are getting off topic.  The best way to find a group?  Form your own.  Run a game.  We all had to start somewhere...

Honestly I would like to see more free DMs. Everywhere I look it's paid this and paid that or pay this weekly to be able to play. I'm tired of seeing that stuff ive always look for the free dnd because you meet unique people  and and become friends with the DM to the point where he or she willask us if we want to join in another campaign after the previous one finished. Personally I find the campaign that you have to pay for the GM is just looking for the money nothing else.

These threads pop up now and then and they always frustrate me. For one, the sentiment is way overblown. Ads for free games and requests for free games still outweigh the paid game ads 3 or four times. But, let's talk about paid DMing, something a lot of people seem to take issue with.  I am a paid DM, I run at least one paid game every single day of the week. I've picked them all up and run them through Roll20. I'm not the cheapest DM out there, if I am to believe the prices other people are putting out there. But, I don't compete with free DMs on cost/benefit. People pay me because I offer a reliable, easy to learn, impossible to master style game where everybody at the table gets to have a good time. I am so confident in my abilities that I never charge anyone until after the session. If they didn't enjoy their experience they're always free to walk away without having to pay me a single cent. So far not one person has taken me up on that offer. I offer experience, running adventures I have run in their entirety several times before. I also offer my patience and expertise teaching hundreds of players new to tabletop games in general, to roll20, to D&D or even just new to 5e.  These are the things people pay me for.  On top of the value proposition, it's also a better experience for myself. I've had amazing free groups on roll20, and I've had some real stinkers. I have to sort through hundreds of applications when I host a free game, having to reject 90% of applicants. Simply said, people who pay you for a game, don't treat you like you're free-to-play.  I don't begrudge anyone running their pay-to-play game. As long as you don't scam people by advertising something you don't actually intend to give them, people can render their own judgement on whether your offer is worth their money.  After all, no amount of paid DMs stops anyone from running their own game, 100% free. If that's too much for you, well, then it sounds like you're admitting that DMing is a valuable and hard to master skill that also takes a lot of time to prepare for and execute. And people with such skills who invest such time should be compensated for them.

If they split the looking for group forum in two parts it would solve the problem. I agree with OP, I don't like all the adds myself even if I do accept payment from time to time.

And I don't mind paying a DM if he's going to put heart into it and make it a commitment and such like you guys. It's just I think people who are looking for a free game are tired of seeing the paid ads

Garreth M. said: These threads pop up now and then and they always frustrate me. For one, the sentiment is way overblown. Ads for free games and requests for free games still outweigh the paid game ads 3 or four times. But, let's talk about paid DMing, something a lot of people seem to take issue with.  I am a paid DM, I run at least one paid game every single day of the week. I've picked them all up and run them through Roll20. I'm not the cheapest DM out there, if I am to believe the prices other people are putting out there. But, I don't compete with free DMs on cost/benefit. People pay me because I offer a reliable, easy to learn, impossible to master style game where everybody at the table gets to have a good time. I am so confident in my abilities that I never charge anyone until after the session. If they didn't enjoy their experience they're always free to walk away without having to pay me a single cent. So far not one person has taken me up on that offer. I offer experience, running adventures I have run in their entirety several times before. I also offer my patience and expertise teaching hundreds of players new to tabletop games in general, to roll20, to D&D or even just new to 5e.  These are the things people pay me for.  On top of the value proposition, it's also a better experience for myself. I've had amazing free groups on roll20, and I've had some real stinkers. I have to sort through hundreds of applications when I host a free game, having to reject 90% of applicants. Simply said, people who pay you for a game, don't treat you like you're free-to-play.  I don't begrudge anyone running their pay-to-play game. As long as you don't scam people by advertising something you don't actually intend to give them, people can render their own judgement on whether your offer is worth their money.  After all, no amount of paid DMs stops anyone from running their own game, 100% free. If that's too much for you, well, then it sounds like you're admitting that DMing is a valuable and hard to master skill that also takes a lot of time to prepare for and execute. And people with such skills who invest such time should be compensated for them. honestly, I agree with you entirely everyone wants high-quality games where the dm has all the books and the pro accounts and all the bells and whistles but no one wants to pay.

I feel like this is a problem that could be easily solved by a series of toggles specific to the LFG forum, rather than relying on each person to tag their topics themselves.

Just wanna chime in here...if someone wants to post an ad for their paid game, let them. If someone wants to pay for a game, let them. The problem that I see is people (often brand new to Roll20 and sometimes to RPGs entirely) posting their own thread looking for their first ever online group, and immediately being ambushed by multiple replies offering paid services. I feel like for new people, this can give the impression that the only real option here is and always will be Pay to Play, and that this could take someone who was interested in trying out D&D for the first time and turn them completely off of the idea of playing online. Some of these paid DMs can come off as downright predatory, going through the forums just hunting for people and responding to every post they see that's looking for a group. In many cases, I suspect that these brand new players don't even know pay to play is a thing until they get hit by this. Also, while DMs looking to cover their own expenses is totally understandable, I have seen people stating things like that they charge $10 a session, run games five days a week, and average 7 players per session. So...this comes out to $350 a week assuming one game a day. I know some run multiple games some days. At which point they are absolutely not just covering game expenses plus maybe a little tip. They've turned DMing into a job. And I think that this really harms the prospect of any actual relationship developing between a DM and their players. Instead, it is an employer/employee relationship. Personally I wonder how DMs that do this can even really be enjoying the game as the social experience it's meant to be...but to each their own on that opinion. And to be clear, this is not the perspective of a complaining player, but the perspective of a DM who has never charged for a session.

I would say that a proper DM provides fun for their players, more so than the other way around. You say you are a DM, so you know you put more work in than players do. As a DM you do provide a service for the players, that is why so many people are reluctant to take up the mantle. I know for you and me it doesn't seem hard, but wasn't it daunting when you first stepped up to the plate? If you are looking for friendship, I don't see a problem with free to play games. But like any art, it has value. To give away movies, literature, paintings, music, sculptures would be ludicrous to ask of an artist, so why the critique against DMs?  Is the honed art of storytelling, one of the oldest forms of entertainment, not worth value in this age? 

Nothing bad with compensation for DM's effort and prep, they waste too much RL time on campaigns compared to average player, mount on top of it lack of commitment in groups of strangers and leaves on sessions 0-3 and it's only fair to raise threshold for people to join and cut the time wasted on integrating free-riders into your worlds and narrative fabric. I personally live in Moscow and lack of time zones in topics titles or filter to find European sessions is more of a consern to me. This forum just needs tags and filters, that's all.