Recently retired old timer from the 70s...anyone interested in me DMing old-style 1st edition campaigns?

I am just recently done with work and, with unused to and used to be very rare free time, my thoughts went way back to when I played D&D.  I was almost always the DM and enjoyed it immensely.  I am thinking that I might want to seek out some of the old experiences. So, anyone interested in old-style campaigns?  I am not ready, sorry, but if there is interest I am willing to put in the time.  However, being cautious, I want to see if there actually is interest. I was a DM for many different sets - Gamma World, Space Opera, Traveler, Runequest etc etc but the most common was AD&D - 1st edition though it wasn't called 'first edition' back then.  I even have the old Greyhawk books that were pre-D&D :) I was particularly favorable to 2 types of settings which I will call 'Mankind Ascendent' and 'Mankind Decendent'.  Both in which mankind is not firmly established and on the brink of becoming extinct struggling in a wild and hostile world.  The one I am thinking of resurrecting from my past is a form of this...where mankind is established on one continent but a new continent was discovered and discontents over the rigidity of society immigrate to the new continent which is a far distance from the old and is pretty much on their own though the old government is trying to establish control but find it difficult.  A new continent rife with dangers and possibilities for mankind.  I have considerable 'story arc/things going on' as it was my main D&D setting in the past. Let me know what you think.  I appreciate all input.

What would your schedule look like?

Awesome, great to see someone that still likes/plays editions from D&D (5 box sets), AD&D 1st edition and AD&D 2nd edition days.  Harder to find people these days that still play (and remember the glory ;)) of those editions.  Those editions just have that different flavor (gaming concept + setting too) from the current mainstream ones, yeah? ;) For the AD&D 1st edition game/campaign you mentioned, what kind of day/time slots are you potentially looking at?

Depending on schedule I would love to play in a 1st edition AD&D campaign.

Schedule look like?   It is WIDE OPEN!  :)  I live in MN for time zone reference. Ok, I will look seriously into getting started on this.  I have much to learn with this new fangled computer/Internet D&D stuff :) Anyone on this list gets first dibbs when I get it rolling. I say 'Old Style' because the last time I ever played/DMd something was 1982 and that was Space Opera...and I am sure things have changed/matured since then.  I guess what I mean by 'old style' is that campaigns didn't have 'supercharacters' unless you freakily rolled one...and death is always a real possibility.  I wasn't a "Killer DM" but death was always a very real possibility so one had to keep on their toes.  I just realized that I committed a sin of the old and just ASSUMED that D&D has 'weakened' and made characters super human and death less likely.  I could very well be wrong...but it has affected many other games so it is likely it has with D&D as well.   However, I mainly meant old-school...as..well...me being old :) Markus...we are starting to reach retirement age...it might become more popular :)

We old-school gamers are around on Roll20, we're just not as numerous. I might be interested in a 1e game, depending on the scheduling. I currently run my own B/X campaign here on Roll20, so I would have to work around that. I will keep an eye out!

I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to play a 1st edition campaign. It's been too long, really. Count me in. I've been playing since 2010 and second or third campaign was with first edition, and was definitely my favorite one. Can I bring a friend who's new to the game? I'm running his first game and we're having fun. Cheers! Nathan

I'd have to relearn the old ways, but would certainly be interested dependent on days / times.  For me that would be on a weekday at 6pm PST or later.

Definitely sounds intriguing to get back to the glory days, looks like you have a fair bit of interest in the campaign already too!  Put me on the list when you get more info.

Sounds intriguing.  I still have the 1st and 2nd edition out there.  Started looking at 5e out of peer pressure.  I still have my favorite 2nd edition module to run: Return to the Tomb of Horrors.   Or, I could be a player...

Benjamin, I would definitely like to be a player in a game as I am working on this :)

That is so great that there are people here still very interested in the older editions.  Most of my time was spent with D&D BECMI (the 5 sets from red basic box up to gold immortals box, though I've never gotten to immortals play before... Do any of you all have experience with levels 28+ up to immortals?) since it seemed to be the perfect balance for simplified-for-beginners as well as retaining the AD&D feel for experienced , all without losing the flavor or feeling generalized.... plus perfect balance of difficulty vs. features/complexity for us to play on weekdays after school & hw or some weekend nights. ;)  Too much complex thinking and numbers to calculate would have been harder for us to sustain after being tired from doing homework.  Haha. However, I also liked AD&D because of its variety of classes, the various abilities, and just all around more in-depth feel (though things could get complex sometimes). Regarding D&D over internet, I am also very new to this Roll20 platform, but I like what I've seen so far.  It looks like you can roll the dice, show maps, hand-draw, and voice chat all within the system, and all just using your browser.  Though..................as you probably know, the glory D&D of the older editions was that it was truly a "paper, pencil, and dice + imagination" game.  In my case, I remember sometimes playing over phone with conference call when we couldn't meet up.  Even when sitting in the same room, we were usually lounging comfortably and only used the floor/table surface for writing/erasing and dice rolling, with occasional maps/drawings.  Of course the DM had his DM's screen with many references and maps concealed though. ;P  So..... not too demanding of technology.  Haha. I guess what I'm saying is, unless you really wanted to make the game fancy with all sorts of visual effects, you theoretically could play with just the minimum such as voice communication, dice rolling, etc. :) Sorry. this post became longer than expected.  It's just exciting to meet fellow players of these great editions of the game.  And, I must say, I am really glad to meet a master DM such as you who also really enjoys the DM part.  I think if more (of the newer) people to the game viewed DMing not just as a referree role, but actually as they themselves also being a player (after all DM controls not one character, but several characters) working with the other players to adventure together through the story that he/she had the "by yours truly honor" of creating, there may be more people naturally wanting to try being a DM.  DM may create the base world/land/realm, but how the adventure unfolds is a product of the DM + players "adventuring" together.   This view would probably also help DMs enjoy playing higher level campaigns, as the DM gets to control neighboring lands/rulers/territories by nature.... I remember, in the games I played, our characters' fun didn't really start until levels 10+.  Up to level 9ish, it was all about "training and building up"="survival" of your character through the exciting adventures & quests designed for those levels. ;) I was lucky that in all my earlier gaming days, the DMs really liked to DM (more than playing a PC role even), so we always had a lot of fun. DM did not see it as "DM vs. player", and had the knack for keeping us alive one way or another (meaning not permanent death and erasure from the game, though may have death needing teammates to somehow help "fix and take care" hehe) while still making sure our characters were very adequately afraid of dying to "keep us on the edge of our seats". To end the post, yes, definitely please keep in touch on know how you proceed on setting up this campaign.  I think typically I am more available in the early mornings or late evenings rather than the afternoons, but we can discuss more once you've gotten more into setting up the game!

I also was the DM when it was AD&D, RQ, Traveller, etc. in the 70's.  I know of the basic box sets but only tried them once. I was pretty much only using AD&D. I've actually been going through my storage bins and been wanting to play some of the oldies in there...like Stormbringer :) Kudos for mentioning Space Opera...super crunchy but loved the setting.  I'd would like to stroll down memory lane. Alternatively, I can also run (maybe we can round-robin so no one gets burned out), Pacific Time here but off work around 230 PM local (GMT -7) which is 430 PM Central Time.  EDIT: I had a bunch of house rules with AD&D and the others so I would have to go over them and see how folks think of them...and I already have the old ToEE (plus a ton of the other original adventures) though the years in a desert have not been kind to my paper copy LOL.

Markus, having started the tutorial in roll20 I am very ready to embrace your wisdom!  You really don't need to get too fancy and I will resist the urge to make it very spit and polish in roll20 as it might mean it would take forever. I still remember the pepper shaker being the troll, slips of paper being the goblins etc :)   We couldn't afford stuff like miniatures! However, I still want to try...but if I find it sucking great amounts of time I think I will head your wisdom and just start it more unpolished.  This might make the youngsters get turned off but we will see :)

Rerednaw, ahhhh Space Opera!   {memories} For those not in the know, Space Opera is INSANE!  It was considered the 'unplayable game'.   Several friends tried and failed...and so did I...but finally I came up with a campaign that worked and they really enjoyed it.   If things go well, I might resurrect that one as well :)...but later.  I still have ALL my Space Opera stuff including original books and Star sector maps...even Ground and Space Equipment :)  WHat was funny is I hadn't seen a friend in about 15 years and then when the movie 'Starship Troopers' came out I got a call saying "They made your campaign!" I have found much of my old stuff stored in a box...which is what triggered this thread.  I can't seem to find Metamorphosis Alpha though :(...nor Star Empires. If anyone starts an old style campaign of any game, please, please let me know :)

Markus said: I guess what I'm saying is, unless you really wanted to make the game fancy with all sorts of visual effects, you theoretically could play with just the minimum such as voice communication, dice rolling, etc. :) I've been using Roll20 for over 5 years now, and I still don't use a lot of the "bells & whistles" that Roll20 offers. I use simple dice rolling macros, some rollable tables, and that's about it. Even the character sheets in my campaign are just "Handouts" that the players can edit themselves as we go along. Just like notebook paper and pencil character sheets from back in the day. I do like having a Roll20 Pro account because, as a DM, the Transmogrifier tool is a huge time saver. I also use Dynamic Lighting, because it allows me to do things we could only dream of back when we played using lead miniatures and a Chessex vinyl battle mat. Those features alone make a Pro account worth the cost, in my opinion.

@TS: Hey if you like I''d be happy to set up a roll20 session just to cover the basics.  Shouldn't take more than half an hour or to cover what you use 90% of the time...just PM me here and we can work out the details...

T S. said: I still remember the pepper shaker being the troll, slips of paper being the goblins etc :)   We couldn't afford stuff like miniatures! Yup, I hear you there. :) :)  Being students during most of the time I played, we also viewed D&D as an "economical" alternative to other forms of entertainment. Rerednaw, I don't know if you played more of AD&D 1e or 2e, but I think 1e probably felt the closest to the box sets D&D - which could be why I like 1e more than 2e if I really had to pick. ;)  2e added many more classes and detailed aspects, but it is also where TSR tried to make the game more " acceptable to mainstream? " and removed various things.  Speaking of, though the DM never restricted any classes, I just realized I have never played an assassin or monk before, ever .  Maybe, I'll try one of those if TS doesn't mind. ;)  Though, for the assassin, it would be one with a conscience ... classified as evil on paper, but actually loyal to friends/team... Brings up images of the swordsman who wields a reverse-edge blade. ;P Brett, yup, by all means, I definitely think that technology can be a useful aid, especially for the DM, and also especially if one is DMing multiple games.  Usage of some cleverly selected features/effects can also definitely add to the game.  I understand that DMs with pro subscriptions can even do many things involving customizations and using the platform's APIs if they wanted.  My first game on here was with a DM that had Pro subscription, so I got to experience some features he used, I think.  Overall, great & fun game and experience. My comment was from a stroll through "memory lane" and "going back to the roots of the game".  My personal philosophy(?) - not limited to D&D - is that one should not be too focused on all the extras that one loses sight of the original purpose/goal.  Now, others may disagree of course... ;P  I think both you and TS understood me, though. ;) By the way, I must say I really do like this Roll20 platform.  Though I am quite new to playing D&D online, I have looked around at various sites for these past few weeks, and this one is definitely one of the best IMHO.  The nicely designed games listing (game editions & time slots clearly listed/filterable; message boards within each game; etc.), the virtual tabletop with voice support, the forums, and also the people being more mature ( not talking about age, but rather in regards to attitude, mutual respect, the posting style, etc.)......  Everything is just clean/simple and easy to use... AND all of that working in a browser without needing extra downloads/plug-ins nor lowering network security to get a feature to work.  Now, if only the forum had the same categorized (of game type/edition) search capabilities the game listings had... hehe.

I used candy as monsters...defeat the monster, eat the rewards! Regarding AD&D...I don't know anyone who ran by the book (including gygax lol) because there were so many rules to begin with we disregarded about 90% of the DMG for example. There were some elements of the later editions which were nice but frankly many of them were homebrew solutions we already came up with :).  I'd pretty much be sticking with 1E AD&D (PHB, DMG, MM...maybe UA, MM2...but I will use stuff from Dragon Magazine like the new improved monk, etc.) Roll20 is a decent platform.  I've used about 5 of them including the venerable rpg.net back in my dialup days...that said a lot of the newer ones definitely have some nice bells and whistles...everyone has it's pros and cons. 

I'm definitely interested, I remember playing in it, and how difficult certain character classes were to attain - such as the bard, unlike now. I am UK based though, so unlikely to be able to join in.

Hey, that candy idea is cool!! :) Rerednaw said: I used candy as monsters...defeat the monster, eat the rewards! ... because there were so many rules to begin with  Now that must be the understatement of the year.  I cannot agree with that more.  Especially 2e... oh my ... ;( Probably why us simpletons, when playing after doing homework and studying, liked BECMI so much since it had all the core rules necessary to keep the flavor/fun of the real D&D game, while still letting us keep the story exciting and moving at a nice pace.

In the off-chance anyone is still reading this thread from before I want to at least create a placeholder game for us. Please PM for an invite .  If we get a stable group of 3-4 DMs who can trade off and commit we can get this ball rolling! :) Please be sure to include (it's for OSR ADND/DND) in the subject somewhere as I run a ton of games and my tired old brain isn't going to recognize random PMs :) EDIT: I know this is typical but there were about 20 (posters plus +1's) who stated they were interested. Only 4 sent a PM to get invited to a game. I am going to start a new thread so it's a little less cluttered and see if we get more takers.   

I too would enjoy the nostalgia trip of a classic D&D game.  Count me in if this gets off the ground and I will open that musty box with my old books in it.

I'll throw my hat in the ring here, I have been running D&D style games without a break since 1975! 

Rerednaw said: @TS: Hey if you like I''d be happy to set up a roll20 session just to cover the basics.  Shouldn't take more than half an hour or to cover what you use 90% of the time...just PM me here and we can work out the details... Definitely.  I can make pretty much any time that you can so if you set it up I can likely make it...plus there may be others wanting to as well!

 Speaking of, though the DM never restricted any classes, I just realized I have never played an assassin or monk before, ever .  Maybe, I'll try one of those if TS doesn't mind. ;)  Though, for the assassin, it would be one with a conscience ... classified as evil on paper, but actually loyal to friends/team... Brings up images of the swordsman who wields a reverse-edge blade. ;P IME, evil characters overplay evil.  It's like they feel they can't have any reliable friends and must exploit etc etc which is far from the truth.  Even Chaotic Evil can have strong friends.  So, while I have never placed restrictions on alignment, I don't tolerate what I call "Group Shenanigans" well.  The world is tough and the party being at their best will find it challenging.  A party having 'group shenanigans' will likely be torn to pieces quickly.  My most memorable 'Party Wipes' came from such :)  The one rule I do enforce is the party can have no more that a '90 degree' difference.   So NG and LN ok....LN and CG not ok. The most common question I received way back when is 'Non-Human level restriction...you don't enforce that, right...or if you do it is easy to get around...right?".  Well...no.  I like to stick to the rules as much as I can but will change them if needed.  For those that don't know, unless you are a thief (the joke is there are no human thieves), the level of non humans is restricted so most players usually choose to be human. To be heard...I LIKE the human-centric nature of D&D (1st edition now).  It makes the world more exotic.  I know many may disagree but I am not in a hurry to eliminate, or even alleviate, non-human level restrictions.  I also tend to like to keep the party on the hungry side so, while there are ways to get around the level caps, it will be challenging to do so (but not impossible).   However. since I am older and mellower ;)  I am open to any rules changes the party would like before the start.

You know, TS, I cannot agree with your below statement more.  None of this "I'm evil so that means I backstab my friends, go around senselessly causing havoc in every town, steal from my friends, etc. etc." or "I want to be the super powerful smasher and take the spotlight, the rest of you just stay back and serve and protect me," kind of thing.  Really, if people play the game "as intended to be played", then all the alignments and character classes/abilities will have their place in the game and still keep the group fun and strong.  I believe it was also because all the people I played with (back in student days) were of this mindset that the DM was able to so succesfully make it so that characters would not permanently die and force character recreation, yet not spoil the fun & occasional tenseness/nervousness of the game.  DM was successfully able to "get his joy" from seeing the PCs advance and grow in the campaign. All of the players always treated character death as a real possibility and made decisions / took actions in the game as such.  And when a character did "die", the player really felt the disappointment/grief of the character getting killed.  No one ever assumed or even had the thought of "oh yeah, DM will be bring him back to life somehow" in his mind whatsoever. T S. said: IME, evil characters overplay evil.  It's like they feel they can't have any reliable friends and must exploit etc etc which is far from the truth.  Even Chaotic Evil can have strong friends.  So, while I have never placed restrictions on alignment, I don't tolerate what I call "Group Shenanigans" well.  The world is tough and the party being at their best will find it challenging.  A party having 'group shenanigans' will likely be torn to pieces quickly.  My most memorable 'Party Wipes' came from such :)

Ok, I went for a smoke and thought.   I realized I was still placing too much importance on 'flash' and looking good.  To heck with that.  You all have made up my mind that it is more important to start and get more flash as I learn.  I still want to learn making maps, and 'dynamic lighting' and such that someone said...but it shouldn't take that long.  I would say 2 weeks tops? I also found my old notes in another box!  Wow, I really did have an imagination back then :)

Markus said: All of the players always treated character death as a real possibility and made decisions / took actions in the game as such.  And when a character did "die", the player really felt the disappointment/grief of the character getting killed.  No one ever assumed or even had the thought of "oh yeah, DM will be bring him back to life somehow" in his mind whatsoever. LOL.  We would get the occasional person who would show up to play.  One not part of the group of friends.  One time one was contemplating doing something and a friend said "You will die".  He looked at the friend saying "He won't kill us".  My friends literally laughed for about 5 minutes saying "OH YES HE WILL!" :)

T S. said: The most common question I received way back when is 'Non-Human level restriction...you don't enforce that, right...or if you do it is easy to get around...right?".  Well...no.  I like to stick to the rules as much as I can but will change them if needed.  For those that don't know, unless you are a thief (the joke is there are no human thieves), the level of non humans is restricted so most players usually choose to be human. To be heard...I LIKE the human-centric nature of D&D (1st edition now).  It makes the world more exotic.  I know many may disagree but I am not in a hurry to eliminate, or even alleviate, non-human level restrictions.  I also tend to like to keep the party on the hungry side so, while there are ways to get around the level caps, it will be challenging to do so (but not impossible).  Yeah, since we were mostly playing BECMI at the time, we really liked to follow the rules as is.  I think we had lots of fun without needing house rules.  In fact, I remember some members rather opposed changing the rules, as that detracted from the "authentic D&D experience". ;)  I think the biggest changes were maybe for AD&D - ignoring detailed encumbrance calculations and assuming things moved/carried practically unless something really big/extreme is involved and ignoring age .  Encumbrance for BECMI already assumed practical treatment of weight/movement without going into the details, and age was not on the character sheet to begin with, so nothing to change there. As an aside, some may know that BECMI is really self-contained with no expansions or optional rule books that I'm aware of.  Even the optional rules were contained within the original rule books, and this edition and the "D&D Revised Edition" (= "Rules Cyclopedia + Wrath of the Immortals") were the only editions that had the full beginning-to-end (e.g. levels 1 to 36 and immortality) rules of play.  So, for us students with limited funds, it was great.  No need to keep spending money on expansions to keep up to date on rules and not miss out on new classes/abilities, and we had everything needed to go from beginning to end. :) Recently, I think the house rules that I like are the max HP on 1st level (roll thereafter) , and the roll 6 iterations of 4d6 drop lowest for each iteration , roll one more 4d6 drop lowest to replace lowest of previous 6 iterations , assign values to abilities as desired rules that some DMs employ.

Ok, 'house rules'...we had those like you mentioned.  We didn't have max HP first level but we did have >50% first level and >33% second level (rounded up)  this means that if you were a fighter and rolled a 1d10 for HP and rolled a '2' you rerolled until you were 6+.  We liked 'non-powerful/not superhuman' characters but a 1-2 HP fighter?  ehhh...he is going to die so why waste time? As for char generation we started with the traditional 3d6 but that evolved to 3d6 get a free '15' to place where you want.  I do believe we did change it to 3d6 get a free 15 but can place where you want or 4d6 fall where they may and still get a free 15.  I am open to suggestions.  The 15 is so that even a normal stat character has 'something' interesting about them that the player can 'grab onto'. What I don't want is someone to hate their character and then try to get them killed.  That is a waste of time.  However, I don't want people rolling until they get a super human either.  It is a balancing act.   I also like people to experiment.  This means I will allow a player to have multiple characters if they wish.  Again, a balancing act.  The downside of using multiple characters is that they may fall behind in levels/power compared to the party and so many don't wish to do it but I had one friend that NEEDED multiple characters depending on his mood. Other 'house rules'?  Well, I usually supply an NPC cleric to the party.  I do this because maybe someone doesn't want to be a cleric?  Or, if they do, they don't want to load up on only healing spells. I think what I will do here is allow a player to roll 2 characters and choose one.  VERY open to suggestions!

T S. said: Ok, 'house rules'...we had those like you mentioned.  We didn't have max HP first level but we did have >50% first level and >33% second level (rounded up)  this means that if you were a fighter and rolled a 1d10 for HP and rolled a '2' you rerolled until you were 6+.  We liked 'non-powerful/not superhuman' characters but a 1-2 HP fighter?  ehhh...he is going to die so why waste time? As for char generation we started with the traditional 3d6 but that evolved to 3d6 get a free '15' to place where you want.  I do believe we did change it to 3d6 get a free 15 but can place where you want or 4d6 fall where they may and still get a free 15.  I am open to suggestions.  The 15 is so that even a normal stat character has 'something' interesting about them that the player can 'grab onto'. What I don't want is someone to hate their character and then try to get them killed.  Yup, I hear you on that.  Though we didn't have any house rules on HP & ability score rolling, usually the aim is for the player to like his character (which does not / should not need be a superhuman), so if every one of the scores are crappy, the DM allowed rerolling of applicable scores so that you end up with a decent character for the class you're wanting to play.  As for hit points, just as you said, HP of 1 or 2 is just not practical since only one hit by most monsters would kill the character instantly... unless it was a seasoned player that wanted a super challenge with supportive teammates to back him up.  Basically, for character creation, everything was handled case-by-case, while ensuring that there was still enough randomness involved , but that players would like and grow the character. As you can probably guess, although I like the player role more, I also DMed some (mostly in groups where I was introducing players to the game, or I was the one with the most experience etc.), and to me, I had fun if the players were having fun.  Nothing was more enjoyable to me (as a DM) than players that were all enthusiastic every time and having fun advancing their characters level by level.  So, it was really important the players liked their characters.  Hehehe, for some reason my DM style/attitude was similar to other DMs of the time that we played with... I guess if you hang out together a lot in those student years, you naturally shared the same style of thinking/playing.

T S. said: I also like people to experiment.  This means I will allow a player to have multiple characters if they wish.  Again, a balancing act.  The downside of using multiple characters is that they may fall behind in levels/power compared to the party and so many don't wish to do it but I had one friend that NEEDED multiple characters depending on his mood. Hahaha ;P I agree it is fun to try different character types.  In my case, since we were all local friends, it was common to play 1 or 2 sessions per week, rest a week or 2 or 3, play another multiple sessions in a week, and so on.  With that much regular playing, we naturally had multiple characters, but all in different campaigns (some run by same DM with same group of players). We never had multiple characters in the same campaign, unless the player was playing both at the same time in the campaign.  We did that sometimes for the smaller groups to balance out the party.  Since all our playing was like campaign mode (we all liked continuation in the same story/realm/world, not one-shots, as growing the character is what made the game fun), if you played two characters in the game, you would keep on advancing those 2 characters "forever".  Though... at the higher levels where characters may settle down or take long rests in towns, perhaps a character would skip a quest/adventure/journey due to some other job or needing to take care of higher level agendas.  The DM and player would make a good side story to temporarily reduce the character count for specific adventures that required / designed for having only small number of characters.

I should point out that by multiple characters...he still only choose one at a time.  Not more than 1 at the same time.  It's like do I want to be the thief or the magic user this adventure...

Well since we're trading off DMng I don't see why we cannot have each DM bring their own house rules for their own game. Also in the interests of full disclosure if your game does something I like I will freely poach it and add it to mine :) I am probably sticking with AD&D when I am DM but certainly have nothing against say playing BECMI in someone elses :) Again subject to change like if I decide I like BECMI better...

Ok, still new and not sure how this will be handled with others but I have started to make the campaign.&nbsp; I will add the link below so that interested people can gather there instead of these forums. <a href="https://app.roll20.net/join/7582801/z-VFDw" rel="nofollow">https://app.roll20.net/join/7582801/z-VFDw</a>

Cool.&nbsp; And, it even has a forum / message board inside so members can discuss various details of the game within the group after joining. I really like Roll20, integrates everything with built-in support for text chat + voice chat + virtual table top... can do it all from this one platform, and in a browser too without needing to lower network security. ;)