Why Subscribe?

I see the list of additional features for subscribing on the support us page, and they are cool. However, I would like to know what there is on the map side of things, and in the sidebar side of things, that would make me want to sub. What else is there? Is there such a thing as drawing a background with a grass tile, without copying it 50 times?  Something similar? Something else? Breaking it down to the features on that page. storage Always good, but purchased packs don't count towards that right? Dynamic lighting/mobile both cool, and mobile is what I want, personally Active listings.  For me, not necessary.  No ads on start up. nice, but not a detriment to playing. The only time it has been an issue is when the DM crashes. Something the Devs should be working on anyhow. Podcast not really for me These things are all cool, but I am interested in how it makes my game prep move faster. Things such as "drawing" out my background,as stated earlier, as an example. Another example would be character sheets. Is there something more than what is available with the free account? As a subscriber, do I get to move my maps from campaign to campaign? Can I move things such as tables, decks? Is there a comprehensive list of things somewhere?   can anyone show me where to find this info? 

There is another feature you forgot to add. Subscriptions = They can continue to develop new and useful features not to mention keep the tool available in the long run. Tim B

IMHO the real reason for subscribing is so the devs can put more into making the interface more functional and flowing period. Dynamic lighting is also great for creating atmosphere, it can be manipulated to be representative of l.o.s. and such.  The rest is of little importance to myself aside from storage I guess. 

Personally I subscribed to show support. Dynamic lighting didn't hold that much temptation for me, neither did any of the rest. But, as Timothy said, the more subs the more features, and the stuff they're churning out is great :)

Overall there is no "value" on subscribing outside of what you place on it. I personally value Dynamic Lighting as a "nice feature" and not having a delay when loading into the campaign is even nicer. Why am I not subscribed? Dental work is expensive =(. When a community drives behind a product the product strengthens both itself and the community. Also, I hear they secretly mail their most loyal subscribers cookies made by Air Elementals!

I fully endorse the dynamic lighting. Make a dungeon, go around the edges with the polygonal tool, then on doors a put a colored block. It's easy to jump over and delete it upon a successful lockpicking or bashing of the door.  My group was playing on two lap tops, one for the dm one for the players, it created a great moment when a door, that took much to open, finally did. Watching 4 people crowd a laptop as if looking through a slowly opening door and exclaiming "what is that?!" Is priceless. No wait its 5$ a month.  I also had a mushroom forest in an underdark encounter and had a ton of little circles drawn on the mushrooms to create a samurai in a bamboo forest feel. It went over really well with the players and made for great rp as a large monster moved about on the edge of the light source.  Now FoW can now be manipulated with a polygonal tool, that's a huge improvement. I was certainly guilty of abusing the boxes for diagonals. 

Why Support?  Because then they can continue to add cool stuff, keep the servers running so we can use this and it is a SMALL thing to do.  As a supporter it costs less than DDI and I know that I will use it nearly every week. And the cookies are delicious!

Thanks for the replies everyone. I do see the value in the system. I am simply trying to figure out what I want out of this. This project is admirable, and when I saw it early in the release, I thought it was a great idea. Right now I have subs to DDI, I own copies of some other VTTs, and have been also playing on RPTGO, which took over DDI's Tabletop. This is the direct competition, and I am gravitating to this project (I play there because friends do.) I'm trying to convince all of them that this is the future. I know what it's like to tell friends and family that you're too busy with your project. I've been there. I get it. You need support. Just on that statement alone, I am going to sub. If I had the support you guys have, my project would have been a success.  Thanks again to everyone for showing me WHY!

I played games on the old WotC VTT annd on RPTGO.  As you can see I here instead <smile>

/feels

I'll be subscribing just to support the project once my big paycheck comes in! take away all the bonus features and I'd still subscribe! dev team, I <3 you!

...hang on, you mean you other supporters  don't get the free air elemental-made snacks? In reality - yes I subscribe for the same reasons above - the project is genuinely worth it and I would miss gaming so much if they were not able to continue. I think the commitment to making it free is admirable, since it gets new people into RPGing and expands the hobby - which is another reason I support Roll20. I also saw how many hours I had spent on here and figured even with supporting, this has to work out as the cheapest form of leasure time possible for me.  :)

I subscribe for one reason, and one reason only.  The nifty little mentor box besides my name when I post. It's all about flashing my status. (and also a little bit to support this really great idea. In this age of free stuff on the internet, I think we should remember to pay for the things we want more of)

Yeah, honestly... the only thing I'm super glad I get as a subscriber is dynamic lighting.  It is such a huge feature that really elevates the game above what it could be even playing face to face. Even without Dynamic Lighting though, I'd want to show support.  This is a pretty amazing project that the dev team has put together.  I want to see it thrive because it has allowed me to re-connect with my old group.  Without support, I'm afraid it'll go away.  So, I support it and encourage others to do the same. Basically, I see it like this.  The free accounts are to make it easy for folks to test drive the service.  But, once you've invested time and emotional energy in getting together a group, you probably should invest a few bucks too.  It helps the devs in obvious ways... but it helps you too.  It means more refinements to the service and a better chance of long term stability. Don't think that just cause something is free on the 'net today it will be here forever.  (Just ask Google Reader users!)

I'm all about mobile support. This is the biggest thing that separates this project from the other VTTs so far. Maptool, for example, has a lot to offer, but no mobile. This is where I really see this project excelling. Please keep making progress in this area.  @Soren V, I have no issue with paying for stuff I want. The question is, does it have what I want, and at what point am I willing to pay for it? Everyone is different. I see value in this and everyone here has been able to show me why it's worth it. I was looking at this as a beta, not a complete application, and truth be told, it's not complete, is it? Hopefully, it never will be. You know what made me realize that it is the right time? Reading the above posts and seeing that people were, in reality,  investing in this unfinished product. This is a relitively new  business model. Deliver something that's has a base of functionality,  get people to buy into it, and grow it. There is an article from  NY Times , (2011), about a university professor that challenged his business students to make no frills applications for Facebook. Some of them managed to make incomplete products, that worked. Months later some of  the successful ones dropped out of school and started a business to support the product they made. They made it a success. They made a lot of money too. I think this product is just like that. Well not exactly but it follows some of the ideas there.  It started in the Kickstarter program. Some of the users here bought into the idea then, when it was no frills. It had a very small marketplace. It had basic functionality.  Good for them. They took a gamble.  That's what it was. A gamble. Something important is that if people didn't take chances like that, we might not have this product where it is now. Thanks to them  for that. (Also, thanks to the people that put time and effort into the free packs there. That's an article in it's own right, so I'll stop there.) Personally, I have a hard time gambling. That's just me though. However, now it has legs, and it looks like it's going somewhere. Thanks to the developers for using the money from those early adopters wisely. Being conservative in spending, I've seen opportunities come and go, but that's really not important is it? Maybe it is, cause I've put some money down now. On this. I know it's not a lot, but I guess it helps to move that little yellow slider up a tiny bit. Hopefully it helps.  I'm not going to turn into a "how you should run your business" thread, cause it's your business. I hope the people running it are , and it looks like you are, doing things right. You will not let things just slide. You will make the most of the money and time that's put into it. You will listen to the users. You will set your priorities in order and stick to them. You will make this project a success. Thanks again to everyone involved, from the Devs and KSBackers all the way to the people like me, who put in the cash to make it grow a bit more. Oh, and don't forget to send my air elemental cookie. I have my glass of milk ready to go!

For me, outside of the cookies, the only reason I'm a mentor is to support the site in the hopes that it becomes better and easier to use.  I've been looking for a VVT that allows my friends that I've game with for many years to re-reconnect despite work, kids, and distance.   I also work 50+ hours a weeks and do a massive about of travel.  I haven't been able to figure out how to use any of the other VVT's.  This one is super simple.  Even for an old moron like me. In fact, I'd give even more if they'd listen directly to my requests.  I need more help than most.  They have a dev server.  They need a moron server.

Boss, if you need help with anything please let me know. I can probably help you with any issues on how to use Roll20. :) - Gauss

The group I DM for is spread out across three countries.  At best, we manage to get together for a few days, twice a year to play D&D.  This has made for very slow progress in our campaign.  That was until Roll20.  This tool has now enable us to have a weekly session and is simply brilliant. I've just been gifted the subscription from my players and the main reason for this is to ensure this site continues. The developers have done a brilliant job but we as a community need to ensure they are making enough cash to keep it going, make it worth their time and energy and give them space to have a holiday every now and then.   Without that business model, this site will eventually die and I don't want to see that happen. Great work guys - you have my groups support!

Funny I was thinking about posting something to start this thread myself. I have noticed that the same business system of Roll20 has been popping up more and more lately.  I don't know if any you have noticed this, but the world is changing.  I never thought to see the same changes and loss I have experienced in Fantasy and science fiction in my life time.  The funny thing about that is it is nothing really new.  It seems to have always been there, just never noticed.  I guess this is because there has been a focus on providing product instead of providing services.  Both views, however, still require the same type of support, money. They both get it the same way, from us.  I have been thinking about this for awhile and that is a rough description of what I have noticed so far. The world is changing.  I recommend you support what you value most with the money at hand.  The "money" must flow in order for things to develop and grow.  Such as it was. Such as it is.  Such as it must be.  The world is changing yet the rules are the same. Think of subscribing this way.  It is only 1 or 2 less RPG books you can buy a year.  Or it is 1 or 2 less Video games you can buy each year.  What is more important to you?..... On that note though.  a $1 subscription might help the cause as well.  The roll20 team might of thought of that all ready but I do not know. Finally ask yourself this.....   "Why do you "subscribe" for things?

Just a quick note to the two post regarding this as a business model (understanding it as buying in on an unfinished project); I think there are a lot of interesting points to be made on this :) But for me it is not because I am investing in an unfinished product. I would continue my subscription if there were no development plan (apart from bug fixes). That there is new features is just gravy on the side. I moved to Cairo with my girlfriend, effectively splitting our group on two continents. This allows us to continue the campaign, and with tools we didn't even have when playing pen'n'paper. Interesting to see peoples reasons and opinions, and I think it fantastic to see that this idea (hopefully) can prove sustainable on a longer term.

This might sound weird, but I subscribed because they offer a free account.  Partly because I got to try things first, but also because the team is providing a really valuable service to the roleplaying community.  I hadn't seen very many free VTTs, and none this easy to use.  It just seemed like the right thing to do to support Roll20.  Access to the dev server and extra features was frankly, as Soren puts it, gravy.

This is literally the VTT i've been looking for. I plan on subscribing ASAP and restarting my campaign.

The only thing holding me back from converting my campaign completely is the lack of API support... more specifically the ability to import/export token, character, module parameters and attributes. If I could write a macro that would fill in attributes and abilities instead of having to do it with a mouse by hand, I'd be a happy boy. I'm close to subscribing, but I'm not sure yet if those features are incoming...

Max, the Devs have indicated that was in the near future in a tweet from March 19th.  Subscribing at the Mentor level would grant you earlier access and also bring it a little closer to fruition.

For me mobile support on my androids was the selling point.  My group can easily come up with a bunch of cheep tablets for the table.  But coming up with 5 lap tops is not as easy.  Our next face to face will be using roll 20.

Robert, have you considered using a large screen TV instead? That should reduce the number of computers required to 2. One for the GM and one for the TV.  - Gauss

Hello! I just created an account, but I wanted to jump in here and share a comment. I have been using MapTools for years. It works well enough, but for years I have been looking for an alternative. iTableTop, EpicTable, Battlegrounds, FG2, d20Pro.. I haven't tried all of those programs (but I tried many!), but I have looked at each and every one of them thoroughly from time or another. I would them from time to time to check in on their development. I KEPT telling their creators and developers that I wanted Dynamic Lighting. And I kept hear crap back about being light-weight, system agnostic. emphasis on old style storytelling, blahbittyblah blah. I can't have dynamic lighting because you want to support other RPGs? I can't have dynamic lighting because not being able to control what the players can see somehow makes my game nostalgic? WTF?!?!?! That's not nostalgia, that's mediocrity. Inadequacy disguised as a virtue! I was on another site, and someone was extolling the virtues of roll20. Another poster pointed out the same issue I have—I'm not about to give up dynamic lighting, even if I have to deal with MapTools. The person who mentioned roll20 mentioned you guys have dynamic lighting so I popped over here to check it out. I nearly fell out of my chair! So, I have created a free account and I'm going to check out the free version, because that would be the only sensible thing to do. But if I am satisfied with the other features—I'll be glad to throw down some subscription fees. I already pay for a vent server that works like crap. If all your other features work well, you got a customer. I wouldn't even download a free trial of some of those other products. So Developers, don't think for a moment that developing dynamic lighting wasn't a good idea. It's what got you invited into my home and willing to listen to your sales pitch and give you my full attention. Congratulate yourself on being smart. I know some people don't care about dynamic lighting, but I'm not them, and I never will be. Same for all my players. It is the minimum benchmark required. Thanks for listening, and I look forward to trying the other features out.

Gauss said: Robert, have you considered using a large screen TV instead? That should reduce the number of computers required to 2. One for the GM and one for the TV.  - Gauss Yes, and we are also considering a projector with 4 mice connected to the lap top. But the TV is to heavy to travel with easily and the projector makes a lot of noise. But everyone owns an android so i am pushing for android, even if it means my buddy has to sink 5 bucks a month.

Robert, Let us know how it works out. We always like to hear how Roll20 is used.  - Gauss

Why Sub? Dynamic Lighting. Probably the best thing to ever be introduced with a Table-top tool EVER.

Christopher L. said: Why Sub? Dynamic Lighting. Probably the best thing to ever be introduced with a Table-top tool EVER. Dynamic lighting is great. But it's not exclusive to this application.   Robert Towell said: For me mobile support on my androids was the selling point.  My group can easily come up with a bunch of cheep tablets for the table.  But coming up with 5 lap tops is not as easy.  Our next face to face will be using roll 20. Roll20's mobile support has a long way to go yet (I know they are working on it.) I have been playing with it on my nexus 7, using chrome beta (the device they use to test it) and I must say that it works, but there is a lot of things wrong. In fact, as I write this, I can't pan around the map (I can in chrome though.) and portrait mode doesn't make the sidebar go away (as stated in the docs.) There's more but I don't want to sit here and smack talk it to death, cause I love the idea (maybe a thread in the mobile support category.) It works enough for me to use as a player, but as a DM, it's very difficult to use, and I can't say that I would want to at this point.  I will reiterate that, in my opinion, this (mobile) IS the single biggest item on this ticket that makes these guys shine over the rest. To my knowledge, there is not a single other group or application using or developing for it. I hope they see this, and I hope they make it happen. It's going to make it huge. That and it's in the browser, not in native applications. Great decision. Once again, I am not beating anyone up about this tool. I want this to succeed. I see it as a very valuable thing for anyone who wants to play games online. It's on the right path, but I can't sell it to anyone I know yet. They just don't see enough value to pay yet.

I subscribed for Mobile Support and Storage. Two things that I needed.

Hi ... how does subscribing affect me as a player, not a dm? I understand the primary reason for subscribing is to support development and continued operation of Roll20; however as a player will I get any of the direct benefits? The things listed as subscriber benefits seem like DM features.

The biggest ones would be mobile device access and direct more feedback to the dev team.

Thanks; I gifted my DM as that seemed to make the most sense.

The only reason I haven't subscribed yet is because I'm a broke college kid.  (And by broke I mean really broke) With somewhere on the order of 400+hrs of game time I fully plan on supporting when I get the funds.

I would like to see automatic duplication on the subscriber side. Ie grab a grass tile and make the entire map grass (a fill all or fill command that sees build structures and fills like a paint command fill everything except where there is something on the map.  I would love to see prebuilt structures such as inn's taverns etc. ideally these would be community created (or dev) and can be pasted on the map even when they fill more than one tile. Even better would be pre-build structures that already have dynamic lighting setup such as torches lanterns etc or for background pieces to be able to save lighting information on the piece. Subscriber additions again towards map building a greater variety of pieces available that are "free" or included in subscription.  prebuild framework for current systems such as built in macro's and possibly scripting again to support game systems particularly with unique dice rules (earthdawn exploding dice steps for example). But also prebuilt character templates available for specific systems. Again this would be a great place for community support crowd sourcing game template frameworks. Prebuild decks etc. ideally these would also could be voted on to push the best templates to the top.  I can go on but I think this is a big list already.   --edit additions-- Line of sight improvements. Allow to add los values to tiles. ie this tile blocks line of sight. This information would be then used at the player end to see diffrent map views per player. Also flags on map tiles This blocks dynamic lighting as well. Los information can be shared between players or not depending on GM flag. Gm should also be able to see a total view of what the players LOS is.  GM side ability to hide units. they are on the correct layer but hidden either by stealth or on the map for a later reveal.  anything that would allow greater comunity involvement and sharing. If some prebuild structures or maps  are using purchased templates this information would be included to allow purchase on the spot. Prebuild structures should be bound together so moved as one unit. again even though they have multiple map tile placements. 

more advanced options (way in the future) the ability to add sound ques on the map. either map button macro's that add sounds or dynamic via player placement of characters. Creaky boards, Monster grumbles, scraping metal. These could come with comic style thought baloons as to where the sound originates from.  

I'd like to see (and it could well just be me) but something a long the lines of: When I(we) sub. I(we) gain access to all of the items on the Market (perhaps for the more expensive sub. option). Of course when you cancel your sub they will again be disabled. Just an idea (=

Dynamic lighting and extra storage sold me.  And as a way to thank the roll20 devs, who inadvertently got me playing RPGs again with my friends across the world. 

Nolan T. J. said: Mogs said: I'd like to see (and it could well just be me) but something a long the lines of: When I(we) sub. I(we) gain access to all of the items on the Market (perhaps for the more expensive sub. option). Of course when you cancel your sub they will again be disabled. Just an idea (= A limited form of this actually went live today.  Over 140 tokens with we're hoping an additional 24 tokens added a month to mentor accounts.   That said, we will never  have an everything on the Marketplace option.  The majority of content we sell is owned by the creators themselves, and your purchases are compensating them directly for their work.  The tokens in this new mentor program are ones we are specifically commissioning to own and sell ourselves. Did I understand correctly, the plan is to add 24 tokens (that other users, Free and Supporters need to buy) per month for Mentors to use with their campaigns? Simple example: now 140 tokens, next month 164, the next after that 188, etc.

Hi I am relatively new to roll20 but many many years of RPG on more solid tabletops behind me and I am a bit confused by Roll20 subscription model too. I have tried FG and at 40$ for GM and 25$ per player it seems more expensive, but with the subscription model of R20 you can soon spend this amount.  R20 has some great points to it, but it is not 'fully featured' yet by any means. It also has the feel of open source projects, but without the open source. I would happily contribute to the project both financially and with any technical expertise I may have that is useful, but it seems that the model only allows me to do that if I pay what is quite a substantial sum of money each month. I seem to be given the choice of 4 months subs for the same price as FGII which is a considerably more mature piece of software. For a 10$ sub I would expect a more mature product and the ability to request features and have very good support. I am 50% there with R20 but I just cant see any reason to go the extra 50% and subscribe. To put it another way. I would happily donate 10$ and use the 'free' version as it stands and see what the rate of updates and improvements are, then in a few months revisit the subscription question. Is it possible to do a one-off  payment? Iain

Hello everyone. I started using Roll20 about three weeks ago and I am now a subscriber. I live in Australia and most of my role playing friends live in other parts of the country. Roll20 has me hooked, I love it. I am now running a campaign with my old role-playing buddies and it is fantastic. Some of the features in Roll20 (such as the dynamic lighting) actually improve the experience over and above playing on a regular table face to face.  Congratulations to the developers of this project, you have made me a very happy DM. I look forward to the ongoing development and I will continue to support this project in the meantime.

Iain G. said: Hi I am relatively new to roll20 but many many years of RPG on more solid tabletops behind me and I am a bit confused by Roll20 subscription model too. I have tried FG and at 40$ for GM and 25$ per player it seems more expensive, but with the subscription model of R20 you can soon spend this amount.  R20 has some great points to it, but it is not 'fully featured' yet by any means. It also has the feel of open source projects, but without the open source. I would happily contribute to the project both financially and with any technical expertise I may have that is useful, but it seems that the model only allows me to do that if I pay what is quite a substantial sum of money each month. I seem to be given the choice of 4 months subs for the same price as FGII which is a considerably more mature piece of software. For a 10$ sub I would expect a more mature product and the ability to request features and have very good support. I am 50% there with R20 but I just cant see any reason to go the extra 50% and subscribe. To put it another way. I would happily donate 10$ and use the 'free' version as it stands and see what the rate of updates and improvements are, then in a few months revisit the subscription question. Is it possible to do a one-off  payment? Iain I sorta feel the same and am sitting on the fence.  But to be fair, Roll20's model is all about the cloud and that's why there is a continuing cost I think.  I haven't used Fantasy grounds, but I have used maptool and it was awesome, but the connection side seemed daunting for some people.  With the way Roll20 does the cloud and everything is up on their servers and you simply use a webbrowser it is really really easy.  Of course there are bad things about the cloud, especially with Roll20 as it is right now.  The worst is no way to share your campaign with others, no way to export it.  You do all that work and would love others to not have to do all that work, but you can't.  But I do like the ease of everything being up in the cloud. :)

I posted about this before but was shot down right away by Nolan. I am someone who dislikes constant fees and I don't feel the need to pay a yearly fee for something I will get just the same enjoyment out if I didn't pay.  I rather have a one time fee that I can pay where I get some of the bonuses for paying (like no ads and mobile) but not others (extra web space) which I feel is a fair tradeoff and would get people to pay more.

Don L. said: I would like to see automatic duplication on the subscriber side. Ie grab a grass tile and make the entire map grass (a fill all or fill command that sees build structures and fills like a paint command fill everything except where there is something on the map.  I would love to see prebuilt structures such as inn's taverns etc. ideally these would be community created (or dev) and can be pasted on the map even when they fill more than one tile. Even better would be pre-build structures that already have dynamic lighting setup such as torches lanterns etc or for background pieces to be able to save lighting information on the piece. Subscriber additions again towards map building a greater variety of pieces available that are "free" or included in subscription.  prebuild framework for current systems such as built in macro's and possibly scripting again to support game systems particularly with unique dice rules (earthdawn exploding dice steps for example). But also prebuilt character templates available for specific systems. Again this would be a great place for community support crowd sourcing game template frameworks. Prebuild decks etc. ideally these would also could be voted on to push the best templates to the top.  I can go on but I think this is a big list already.   --edit additions-- Line of sight improvements. Allow to add los values to tiles. ie this tile blocks line of sight. This information would be then used at the player end to see diffrent map views per player. Also flags on map tiles This blocks dynamic lighting as well. Los information can be shared between players or not depending on GM flag. Gm should also be able to see a total view of what the players LOS is.  GM side ability to hide units. they are on the correct layer but hidden either by stealth or on the map for a later reveal.  anything that would allow greater comunity involvement and sharing. If some prebuild structures or maps  are using purchased templates this information would be included to allow purchase on the spot. Prebuild structures should be bound together so moved as one unit. again even though they have multiple map tile placements.  I don't think a fill type command is easy to implement considering Roll20's architecture.  The "best" way to build maps is really to have a single "background" tile and then add tokens as movable objects and flavor, i.e. debris, doors, chests, etc.  The problem is that each object requires more resources so the more separate tiles you use the more the system has to redraw.  This can really slow the client down if overdone.  I'm not saying it isn't possible or even something they plan on implementing, just saying that you're probably better off using a separate program to compile maps (for example, take all the tiles you want, combine them in GIMP or even paint, save a single file, then use on your map).  This makes it a lot easier to align to the grid as well assuming all your tiles use the same pixel count. Dynamic lighting already does this, you just have to set it up.  Set each player token to "emits light" (for DnD a typical view is 40ft/20ft. for torchlight, which gives 40 foot dim lighting and 20 foot bright lighting).  Don't check "all players see light."  Now each player will only see what their token sees, no one else's.  The GM can still see everything, including what the players can see.  I believe if you want to get a better view of a particular token's view you can select it and press Ctrl+L to see hide everything else.  If you want to leave places visible you without the player being able to view that area you can create additional tokens with lighting and add them to the GM layer until the players finish that area, then move them to the object layer once they move on.  I usually use 50/0 for the lighting so you get a full dim light of the previously explored area. Lastly, if you want to hide a token from player view, select it and right click, then choose Layer->GM Layer or just press Ctrl+Shift+K.  To unhide it choose Layer->Object or press Ctrl+Shift+O.  To edit the GM layer and back quickly you can switch by using just Ctrl+K and Ctrl+O. Hope that helps...let me know if the functionality described isn't what you're looking for.  Thanks!